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throwback
05-02-2011, 08:33 AM
So I'm at church on yesterday and the lesson was partially taken from Matthew 25:31 and following. It is a passage I have gone through countless times, but lately a part of it has been jumping out at me. It reads: "Then the King will say to those at His right, "'Come, my Father's blessed ones, receive your inheritance of the Kingdom which has been divinely intended for you ever since the creation of the world. Young's Literal Translation uses the word reign in place of kingdom in this verse.

If one notices, it is clear that Jesus' message was primarily a message about the kingdom of Heaven. That is the very first thing Jesus began preaching according to the gospels, and it was the major focus throughout his ministry. Immediately after Pentecost, the apostle's first message was about the good message of Jesus and how he had been raised from death to be seated at the right hand of God on the throne of power where Jesus reigns from as God's Anointed King over the Kingdom that had so long been spoken of.

We have been conditioned to view the kingdom and the church as synonomous, but according to scripture, the kingdom is much more encompassing. Jesus' own words tells us that all authority, not only on Earth, but Heaven as well had been given to him. We also read in Colossians 1:20 that Jesus' sacrifice rectified heavenly relationships with the Father as well. In light of this, we may need to broaden our view of what the Kingdom of Heaven truly is realizing that Jesus' called ones are but a PART of the overall kingdom.

For the longest time I have pondered this question: What was God's purpose or intent in creating us and our world? Based on what is spoken of in scripture, I believe the kingdom is possibly an answer. Notice Paul's words from 1 Cor 15: Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he 'has put everything under his feet.' Now when it says that 'everything' has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Twospirits
05-02-2011, 09:13 AM
Throwback wrote,

We have been conditioned to view the kingdom and the church as synonomous, but according to scripture, the kingdom is much more encompassing. Jesus' own words tells us that all authority, not only on Earth, but Heaven as well had been given to him. We also read in Colossians 1:20 that Jesus' sacrifice rectified heavenly relationships with the Father as well. In light of this, we may need to broaden our view of what the Kingdom of Heaven truly is realizing that Jesus' called ones are but a PART of the overall kingdom.

For the longest time I have pondered this question: What was God's purpose or intent in creating us and our world? Based on what is spoken of in scripture, I believe the kingdom is possibly an answer. Notice Paul's words from 1 Cor 15: Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he 'has put everything under his feet.' Now when it says that 'everything' has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

From http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1733&page=21


Ram wrote,

Your assertion that "Scripture consistently teaches" that "both kinds of death, spiritual and physical, are the consequence of Adam’s rebellion" has no foundation in Scripture. We know that physical death was not the consequence of Adam's sin because it continues even amongst those who have been forgiven of all there sins.
Just because death continues even though we are saved doesn't mean it has no foundation in scripture, it simply means it is STILL a sin-cursed world until all is fulfilled.

God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." A New Testament passage sometimes offered as support for the position is Romans 5:12 which states, "Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin."

1 Cor. 15:21,22, 'For since by man (came) death, by man (Christ) came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Cor. 15:23,24, 'But every man in his own order; Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God (all saints), even the Father; when he shall have put down ALL rule and ALL authority and power.

1 Cor. 15:25,26, 'For he must reign (in heaven, Rev. chap. 20), till he hath put ALL enemies under his feet. The last enemy (that) shall be (future tense) DESTROYED (taken away forever) is death." This is not speaking of 'spiritual death' for Christ conquered 'that death,' this is speaking of physical death, why Paul uses the future tense, 'shall be' destroyed, which is physical death.

1Cor. !5:28, 'And when ALL things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all' (Rev. 21:22).

1 Cor. 15:51,52, 'Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not ALL sleep, but we shall ALL be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.'

1 Cor. 15:53,54, 'For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal (must) put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.'

1 Cor. 15:55,56,57, 'O Death, where is thy sting? O Grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.' (Romans 8:16-23).

Rev. 20:9-15, 'And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city; and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them (Gog and Magog, all enemies of God; Rev. 20:8). And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet (are), and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever.'

'And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is (the book) of life; and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.'

'And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and the grave* delivered up the dead which were in them; and they were judged 'every man' according to their works. And death and the grave* were cast into the lake of fire, this is the second (and final) death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life, was cast into the lake of fire.'

Rev. 21:1, 'And I saw a new (restored) heaven and a new (restored) earth; for the first heaven and the first earth were 'passed away'; and there was no more sea' (of peoples, multitudes, tongues and nations of the old order).

As I noted, from the opening chapters of Genesis, God teaches that a Savior must come to release mankind from this impossible situation. That Savior is Christ, he redeemed mankind from spiritual death as well as the 'second death,' and with the opening of the seals and the prophecy's fulfillment shall also restore 'creation's fall' seen in Rev. 21:1-5 just as God promised (Rev. 21:7). This is what scripture reveals to me.

Thy Kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven----

God bless---Twospirits

throwback
05-02-2011, 09:53 AM
It seems that in the mind of God prior to creation, His creative intent was for a pure, righteous, and holy Kingdom that He could make one with Himself. I say this not only because of the language used in 1 Cor 15, but also John's writings, specifically John 1 and 1 John 1.

In the beginning was the LOGOS,
And the LOGOS was with God,
And God, the LOGOS was........

The message (LOGOS) of life has been here since long ago. We’ve heard about it, seen it with our eyes, stared at it, and felt it with our hands.

I emphasize the Greek word LOGOS because it has some very interesting meanings that go far beyond 'word' or even 'message'. To the Greeks of old, LOGOS carried the idea of intent, the reason behind, or the very purpose of something. So when John says that 'in the beginning was the LOGOS', he's telling the reader about God's thought process and creative intent! That is some powerful stuff! John further went on to say in vs. 14 that this intent of God was embodied in Jesus, God's Anointed One. In him (Jesus), we can see the message of life that is the very light of humanity.

james.hopkins
11-03-2011, 09:32 PM
So I'm at church on yesterday and the lesson was partially taken from Matthew 25:31 and following. It is a passage I have gone through countless times, but lately a part of it has been jumping out at me. It reads: "Then the King will say to those at His right, "'Come, my Father's blessed ones, receive your inheritance of the Kingdom which has been divinely intended for you ever since the creation of the world. Young's Literal Translation uses the word reign in place of kingdom in this verse.

If one notices, it is clear that Jesus' message was primarily a message about the kingdom of Heaven. That is the very first thing Jesus began preaching according to the gospels, and it was the major focus throughout his ministry. Immediately after Pentecost, the apostle's first message was about the good message of Jesus and how he had been raised from death to be seated at the right hand of God on the throne of power where Jesus reigns from as God's Anointed King over the Kingdom that had so long been spoken of.

We have been conditioned to view the kingdom and the church as synonomous, but according to scripture, the kingdom is much more encompassing. Jesus' own words tells us that all authority, not only on Earth, but Heaven as well had been given to him. We also read in Colossians 1:20 that Jesus' sacrifice rectified heavenly relationships with the Father as well. In light of this, we may need to broaden our view of what the Kingdom of Heaven truly is realizing that Jesus' called ones are but a PART of the overall kingdom.

For the longest time I have pondered this question: What was God's purpose or intent in creating us and our world? Based on what is spoken of in scripture, I believe the kingdom is possibly an answer. Notice Paul's words from 1 Cor 15: Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he 'has put everything under his feet.' Now when it says that 'everything' has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.


Hi Throwback,

This dates back aways, but I thought that it wouldn't hurt to comment on it.

There are two phases to Christ's reign. The first phase is "in the midst of his enemies" as is seen in the prophecy of Ps 110:1-2.

The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."
2 The Lord shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion. Rule in the midst of Your enemies!

Peter speaks of Christ receiving the throne of his father, David, when exalted to the right hand of the Father. He quotes this verse showing that this is the promise that Jesus received of the Holy Spirit from the Father. The pouring out of the Holy Spirit is the normal way we read it. But read it again. This promise of the Holy Spirit, Jesus received from the Father. It is the throne of David that is given to Jesus resulting in him being made Lord and Christ. Here are Peter's words:

29 "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne,
31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." '
36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

The second phase of the reign of Christ occurs when "his enemies are put under his feet." This is the scripture that you gave earlier. Paul is commenting on Ps 110, and I identify his pronouns in parenthesis.

24 Then comes the end, when He (Christ) delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He (the Father) puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. (From Ps 110, it is the Father that puts down Christ's enemies).
25 For He (Christ) must reign till He (the Father) has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be (is being) destroyed is death. (This is a present passive indicative verb and is improperly translated with the future tense).

Perhaps a comment on what Paul means when he says, "Then comes the end." In the previous verse, Paul connects this end with Christ's coming. Since Christ's coming was expected and was said to be "at hand," I see the End of the Mosaic age as being taught by Paul. He has just mentioned that in 1Cor 10:11, that the "Ends of the Ages have come" upon them. In Rom 13:11, Paul says, "The night is far spent; the Day is at hand." And then in Phil 4:5, he says, "The Lord is at hand."

The coming of the Lord is also anticipated by Peter, James and John. Peter said: "The end of all things is at hand." And, "The time is come for judgment to begin from the house of God." 1Pet 4:7, 17. James stated: "You also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. 9 Do not grumble against one another, brothers, so that you may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing at the door." Jas 5:8-9. John wrote: "Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour." 1Jn 2:18. And, 'Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near."

In light of this anticipation I see 1Cor 15:24 and the coming of the Lord and the End was associated with the Lord's coming on Jerusalem in Judgment as fulfilling 1Cor 15:26, "The last enemy, death, is destroyed." Translated this way provides the same meaning as 2Tim 1:10, "...and which now has been manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,..."

Now, at the End, Paul says that Christ would then reign over all his enemies and return all authority and power to the Father, that the Father might be all in all. The Kingdom of God, his reign, now becomes the Kingdom of our Lord and his Christ, Rev 11:15. This is the time when Christ receives all the nations as his inheritance and he rules over them with a rod of iron. Ps 2:8.
Does this work for you?

Jim Hopkins

Charisma
11-04-2011, 05:11 PM
Hi Jim,

It seems to me that 1 Cor 15:26 cannot be separated from the end of the chapter:

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:
for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.