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TheForgiven
03-24-2011, 02:04 PM
Hey all. I'd like to get your take on this.

Is Big Oil taking advantage of the skirmish in Lybia to raise the price of fuel?

Joe

CWH
03-24-2011, 07:43 PM
Hey all. I'd like to get your take on this.

Is Big Oil taking advantage of the skirmish in Lybia to raise the price of fuel?

Joe

Of course, this goes without saying, the Big Oil are taking advantage of the skirmish in Libya to raise the price of fuel. Same with food prices and commodities prices. Humans are greedy for money. It's better to be greedy for the treasures in heaven. You think the Western powers (EU and NATO) are really interested in protecting the people of Libya by enforcing the no-fly zone? No, itg's all because of the oil in Libya. The Western poweres wanted to topple Ghaddafi's government so that the new Libyan government is more pro-Western and thus the Western powers will have more concession and access to Libyan's oil.

Matthew 6:19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy,[c] your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eyes are unhealthy,[d] your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

Many Blessings.

Clifford
03-25-2011, 04:25 AM
Hey all. I'd like to get your take on this.

Is Big Oil taking advantage of the skirmish in Lybia to raise the price of fuel?

Joe

Oil prices are set on the commodities market. The price goes up if traders see a supply shortage in the future due to conflicts affecting oil producing countries or increased demand world-wide. It has nothing to do with "Big Oil" conspiring together to fix prices. Blaming "Big Oil" for rising prices is just used by anti capitalist and anti big business types that blame everything on those big "bad" companies.

Clifford

Clifford
03-25-2011, 04:35 AM
Of course, this goes without saying, the Big Oil are taking advantage of the skirmish in Libya to raise the price of fuel. Same with food prices and commodities prices. Humans are greedy for money. It's better to be greedy for the treasures in heaven. You think the Western powers (EU and NATO) are really interested in protecting the people of Libya by enforcing the no-fly zone? No, itg's all because of the oil in Libya. The Western poweres wanted to topple Ghaddafi's government so that the new Libyan government is more pro-Western and thus the Western powers will have more concession and access to Libyan's oil.



They already had all the access they wanted under Ghaddafi. Libya was already exporting all the oil they could. In all likelihood a new government won't be any more pro-western than Ghaddafi is. Many of the rebels are Islamists who are anti-western.

Clifford

TheForgiven
03-25-2011, 05:14 AM
Oil prices are set on the commodities market. The price goes up if traders see a supply shortage in the future due to conflicts affecting oil producing countries or increased demand world-wide. It has nothing to do with "Big Oil" conspiring together to fix prices. Blaming "Big Oil" for rising prices is just used by anti capitalist and anti big business types that blame everything on those big "bad" companies.

Clifford


I must respectfully disagree with you. :winking0071: I understand that the "Speculator's" drive up the price of oil when they "fear" demand could be reduced in the future due to any catastrophic event. But haven't we heard this same old song before? From 2005 to 2009, there were no oil supply shortages then, just as there aren't any shortages in supply now. And when you get down to the nitty-gritty, who profits from this? Big Oil and our Political Leaders who’ve invested in oil stocks! They are the ones raking in HUGE profits, and it's destroying the American economy. The American consumer ends up paying too much for the cost of living, which reduces spending on the market sector (retail stories, goods and services, etc.), yet I see no concerns at all by any of them; big oil nor major corporations, so long as their dividends and profits continue to fatten their pocket books. It saddens me to watch them live in such luxury, while the middle class ends up relying on credit cards or bank loans for even the smallest forms of entertainment, let alone the ever increasing cost of living.

I agree with certain aspects of Capitalism, but I disagree with its primary objective; to make as much as possible NO MATTER WHAT. And what does this mean? It means the major stock owners of any business is willing to sacrifice the rest of American public for the sole purpose of maximizing its capital gains. Capitalism doesn't seek the benefit of the "many", but the benefit of the "few". To them, the needs of the "few" outweigh the needs of the "many". But it's both the few (rich) and the many (poor) that make our Country great when both sides are strong. Unfortunately, our nation's economy has been declining because American workers have grown soft and lazy, and our political leaders and its allies (major corporations) have grown fat, thus leading to our nations pending collapse.

It all comes down to numbers. If wages, tips, and salaries are too low, and the jobless rate is too high, the IRS cannot obtain enough tax-revenue to pay for government programs vital to our national defense, and governmental services (highway patrol, road construction, Politician pay-checks, retirements, VA Benefits, etc.) This is the reason why the Democrats tax the rich, because the rich are unwilling to make more sacrifices on dividends in exchange for a larger work-force. Bill Clinton, as much as I disliked him, did a fantastic job bringing the economy at its strongest ever; he knew that increasing wages, tips, and salaries creates jobs by increase the consumers “buying power”. I know the popular Reagan myth that reducing taxes (on the rich) helps create jobs. And in the 80’s that was true, but now days, that cliché holds no truth to it whatsoever. Major Cooperation’s are pushing jobs overseas to save money on cheaper labor, yet they are still selling their products at the same price as they would if these products were produced by Americans.

One common excuse you hear time and time again, is that the American employee is too expensive. AS IF! Are CEO’s and Executives cheap? Are they not MUCH MORE expensive? Look at the CEO for Big Oil. Wasn’t his retirement check some 400+ million dollars? What good did he do to deserve that? American soldiers give their lives for our freedom, and yet they’re lucky if they are able to accumulate a life-long total of $200,000 thousand on retirement or VA compensation. Yet now we see Uncle Sam trying to reduce retirement pensions because the budget cannot afford expensive equipment. I say go after Big Oil in the form of a tax, and utilize the additional funding for supporting our vital national defense. This could easily be done by getting rid of the $54,000,000 billion dollar tax breaks from Big Oil, which the obviously do not need.

Team-Work is the only way for any nation to grow strong. The Japanese approach to business made their economy strong in the 70’s and 80’s. Quality Products were produced by hard labor (workers) and their outstanding leadership; couple these two together and you’ve got profit for all to share and benefit from. American car companies, such as GM and Dodge, to this day do not care about quality, but only profit. And that is the largest reason for the decline in the American economical growth; trying to make too much “buck” for a single “bang”; they try getting rich off of one sale instead of mass production. Mass production is what create jobs, and THAT can only happen in two ways:

1. Increasing buying power of the American worker
2. Ensure employment is at its highest, and penalizing businesses whose profits are excessive due to foreign labor, and over-working employee’s.

But big oil, greedy executives, and high interest rates all play a key factor on how well our economy does. If the cost of living expenses is excessively high, then American consumers are limited in buying power; limited buying power reduces retail sales; and a reduction in retail sales, weakens our economy; the weaker it gets, the higher the unemployment level. But in all this, guess who still sits at the top and controls the market? Big oil and executives of capitalism. Socialism seeks to level the playing field. Capitalism seeks to weaken the middle to lower class, in order to sustain its control over their lives, and their pocket-books.

This is easily proven by Oil Companies trying to buy up every ounce of technology that may offer them too much competition. TRUST ME ON THIS ONE. If there were an alternate fuel source on the market, would we see oil companies and speculators trying to manipulate the market so much?

I’ll simply close with this. I DESPISE Big Oil because they are putting their greed ahead of their Country. But this is nothing new; it’s not as though these has never been done before. St. James condemned the false Jews prior to their destruction in 70AD for “failing to pay the workers their [earned] wages”, and how the wealthy Jews “fattened themselves for the day of the slaughter”.

Finally, with regards to transportation needs, if big oil would step out of the way, and stop trying to buy up every new technology that’s invented, and allow our nation to expand on its technology, which is what made our country strong to being with. But with Big Oil suppressing new technologies, our growth is almost impossible, and our nations becomes stagnant. I personally like Bio Fuels which is as powerful as gasoline, but 78% percent cleaner.

Whew! Long speech I know.

God bless.

Joe

TheForgiven
03-25-2011, 05:18 AM
Of course, this goes without saying, the Big Oil are taking advantage of the skirmish in Libya to raise the price of fuel. Same with food prices and commodities prices. Humans are greedy for money. It's better to be greedy for the treasures in heaven. You think the Western powers (EU and NATO) are really interested in protecting the people of Libya by enforcing the no-fly zone? No, itg's all because of the oil in Libya. The Western poweres wanted to topple Ghaddafi's government so that the new Libyan government is more pro-Western and thus the Western powers will have more concession and access to Libyan's oil.

Well my brother and friend. We found common ground. :anim_32:

I fully agree with you. Notice how commotties that are "needed" by our society are price-minipulated to the benefit of the stock owners? Take the need away, and they have no control. What Big Oil needs is some serious competition, which they do not like.

Big Oil creates the need by purchasing legal patton's on new ideas in order to prevent technologicla growth, thereby eliminating any forms of competition. They do this so they may sustain control on the oil market for fear of losing their true god; $$$$$$$$

Lord have mercy on them, is all we can pray for. Eventually, I believe God will someday bring Big Oil to its knees. I think they've maintained enough control over society for a while. It's time for some new air.

Joe

cccfree
03-25-2011, 09:00 AM
There is a lot of people taking advantage of the skirmish in Libya...

I was reading about commodities traders that make millions of dollars any time there is turmoil in the middle east, and the big time commodities traders love turmoil in the Middle East because it means more speculation or more money.

TheForgiven
03-25-2011, 11:14 AM
There is a lot of people taking advantage of the skirmish in Libya...

I was reading about commodities traders that make millions of dollars any time there is turmoil in the middle east, and the big time commodities traders love turmoil in the Middle East because it means more speculation or more money.

You said it buddy! :thumb: It's all about the all-mighty dollar. We know what god should be placed on all money "in god we trust". That's what this means; money is their god.

Joe

CWH
03-25-2011, 03:10 PM
You said it buddy! :thumb: It's all about the all-mighty dollar. We know what god should be placed on all money "in god we trust". That's what this means; money is their god.

Joe

That's one good reason to change the wordings on the American money to "In God We Trust, In Money Not So Much".:lol:

Many Blessings.

Silence
03-26-2011, 05:16 AM
One of the things that disgust me most about cut-throat capitalists is that they sing the praises of competition to high heaven out of one side of their mouth and then whisper to their friends from the other side about the best way to deceitfully eliminate any competition that starts coming down the road. I believe it was in the 1920's that a group of sugar beet farmers went to Germany to look at their alcohol producing system. At this point oil was not the clear choice for a fuel base. When they got back to the states they set up a meeting to discuss their findings and decide if America could do something similar. Rockefeller used some of his underlings to convince the New York Police to raid the meeting because they had gotten a tip that the people there were going to be discussing "dangerous German ideas". With the memory of WWI still fresh in people's minds, it was easy enough to pull off.

There are tons of ways companies do stuff like this all the time. Firestone went into Africa and paid bright eyed anthropology graduates to study the natives there, supposedly as a humanitarian/cultural gesture to help him take their needs into consideration as he developed sources for latex to make tires. What he was really mining for was information to tell him when the cultures of these natives had reached the "tipping point" and they had given up so much of their old way of life that the option of refusing to keep working for him and going back to their former life was no longer an option. He encouraged them to go down that path by paying them more for their labor than the market would bear and selling them products that they would need as a result of their changed lifestyle at an artificially cheap price.

As long as sin is around there will always be people using methods like this. When you have an industry that is as firmly established as the oil industry, and speculators who buy and sell their products, it will always be harder to figure out who is the source of instability. Heck, each of us is a small time speculator once in a while. "Do I want to fill up today or just buy enough to last a few days and wait to see what it costs then?". Supposedly, futures markets were set up to prevent "the little guys" (most of us) from causing big market fluctuations this way. But putting speculation in the hands of a few people with a lot of money to throw around has drawbacks too and is just as dangerous because they throw around a lot more "weight" per person.

Clifford
03-27-2011, 02:47 AM
I must respectfully disagree with you. :winking0071: I understand that the "Speculator's" drive up the price of oil when they "fear" demand could be reduced in the future due to any catastrophic event. But haven't we heard this same old song before? From 2005 to 2009, there were no oil supply shortages then, just as there aren't any shortages in supply now. And when you get down to the nitty-gritty, who profits from this? Big Oil and our Political Leaders who’ve invested in oil stocks! They are the ones raking in HUGE profits, and it's destroying the American economy. The American consumer ends up paying too much for the cost of living, which reduces spending on the market sector (retail stories, goods and services, etc.), yet I see no concerns at all by any of them; big oil nor major corporations, so long as their dividends and profits continue to fatten their pocket books. It saddens me to watch them live in such luxury, while the middle class ends up relying on credit cards or bank loans for even the smallest forms of entertainment, let alone the ever increasing cost of living.

I agree with certain aspects of Capitalism, but I disagree with its primary objective; to make as much as possible NO MATTER WHAT. And what does this mean? It means the major stock owners of any business is willing to sacrifice the rest of American public for the sole purpose of maximizing its capital gains. Capitalism doesn't seek the benefit of the "many", but the benefit of the "few". To them, the needs of the "few" outweigh the needs of the "many". But it's both the few (rich) and the many (poor) that make our Country great when both sides are strong. Unfortunately, our nation's economy has been declining because American workers have grown soft and lazy, and our political leaders and its allies (major corporations) have grown fat, thus leading to our nations pending collapse.

It all comes down to numbers. If wages, tips, and salaries are too low, and the jobless rate is too high, the IRS cannot obtain enough tax-revenue to pay for government programs vital to our national defense, and governmental services (highway patrol, road construction, Politician pay-checks, retirements, VA Benefits, etc.) This is the reason why the Democrats tax the rich, because the rich are unwilling to make more sacrifices on dividends in exchange for a larger work-force. Bill Clinton, as much as I disliked him, did a fantastic job bringing the economy at its strongest ever; he knew that increasing wages, tips, and salaries creates jobs by increase the consumers 'buying power'. I know the popular Reagan myth that reducing taxes (on the rich) helps create jobs. And in the 80’s that was true, but now days, that cliché holds no truth to it whatsoever. Major Cooperation’s are pushing jobs overseas to save money on cheaper labor, yet they are still selling their products at the same price as they would if these products were produced by Americans.

One common excuse you hear time and time again, is that the American employee is too expensive. AS IF! Are CEO’s and Executives cheap? Are they not MUCH MORE expensive? Look at the CEO for Big Oil. Wasn’t his retirement check some 400+ million dollars? What good did he do to deserve that? American soldiers give their lives for our freedom, and yet they’re lucky if they are able to accumulate a life-long total of $200,000 thousand on retirement or VA compensation. Yet now we see Uncle Sam trying to reduce retirement pensions because the budget cannot afford expensive equipment. I say go after Big Oil in the form of a tax, and utilize the additional funding for supporting our vital national defense. This could easily be done by getting rid of the $54,000,000 billion dollar tax breaks from Big Oil, which the obviously do not need.

Team-Work is the only way for any nation to grow strong. The Japanese approach to business made their economy strong in the 70’s and 80’s. Quality Products were produced by hard labor (workers) and their outstanding leadership; couple these two together and you’ve got profit for all to share and benefit from. American car companies, such as GM and Dodge, to this day do not care about quality, but only profit. And that is the largest reason for the decline in the American economical growth; trying to make too much 'buck' for a single 'bang'; they try getting rich off of one sale instead of mass production. Mass production is what create jobs, and THAT can only happen in two ways:

1. Increasing buying power of the American worker
2. Ensure employment is at its highest, and penalizing businesses whose profits are excessive due to foreign labor, and over-working employee’s.

But big oil, greedy executives, and high interest rates all play a key factor on how well our economy does. If the cost of living expenses is excessively high, then American consumers are limited in buying power; limited buying power reduces retail sales; and a reduction in retail sales, weakens our economy; the weaker it gets, the higher the unemployment level. But in all this, guess who still sits at the top and controls the market? Big oil and executives of capitalism. Socialism seeks to level the playing field. Capitalism seeks to weaken the middle to lower class, in order to sustain its control over their lives, and their pocket-books.

This is easily proven by Oil Companies trying to buy up every ounce of technology that may offer them too much competition. TRUST ME ON THIS ONE. If there were an alternate fuel source on the market, would we see oil companies and speculators trying to manipulate the market so much?

I’ll simply close with this. I DESPISE Big Oil because they are putting their greed ahead of their Country. But this is nothing new; it’s not as though these has never been done before. St. James condemned the false Jews prior to their destruction in 70AD for 'failing to pay the workers their [earned] wages', and how the wealthy Jews 'fattened themselves for the day of the slaughter'.

Finally, with regards to transportation needs, if big oil would step out of the way, and stop trying to buy up every new technology that’s invented, and allow our nation to expand on its technology, which is what made our country strong to being with. But with Big Oil suppressing new technologies, our growth is almost impossible, and our nations becomes stagnant. I personally like Bio Fuels which is as powerful as gasoline, but 78% percent cleaner.

Whew! Long speech I know.

God bless.

Joe

It was more like a diatribe then a long speech. In free market economies supply and demand determine the prices of commodities. That's economics 101. Of course there are exceptions to this like when one company or entity controls a particular commodity or there is collusion between several companies to fix prices. But with the oil companies we are talking about quite a few oil companies around the world. It would be nearly impossible for these companies to get together in a grand conspiracy to fix prices and for it to last any length of time since one or more companies could make more money by undercutting the fixed price and selling more oil.

To show that prices are determined by supply and demand(not only by current demand but what traders think future demand will be) just look back a few years ago. In the summer of 2008 oil peaked around $140 a barrel. After the economic meltdown in the fall of 2008 oil prices fell dramatically and by the summer of 2009 were down to around $80 a barrel. And why was that? Simple. World demand fell because of the economic downturn. If there was any proof of collusion between the oil companies to fix prices don't you think the current anti-business administration in power would be going after them? Your claims are baseless and not supported by the facts.

Our free-market capitalist based society has given us a standard of living unprecedented in world history. Even our poor are better off then most people in a lot of third-world counties. Instead of bashing our capitalist system you should be thankful for it. Karl Marx thought he could come up with a better system than capitalism and look what the result was. Communism, which was a colossal failure not only economically but enslaved and murdered millions of people.

Clifford

TheForgiven
03-27-2011, 02:33 PM
It was more like a diatribe then a long speech. In free market economies supply and demand determine the prices of commodities. That's economics 101. Of course there are exceptions to this like when one company or entity controls a particular commodity or there is collusion between several companies to fix prices. But with the oil companies we are talking about quite a few oil companies around the world. It would be nearly impossible for these companies to get together in a grand conspiracy to fix prices and for it to last any length of time since one or more companies could make more money by undercutting the fixed price and selling more oil.

There aren't as many Big Oil companies as you're suggesting. :lol: If I'm not mistaken, there are less then 10 major oil companies. The ones that come to mind right off hand are BP, Exxon, Shell, Citgo, just to name a few. And I'm not simple minded enough to merely take the oil companies word for their innocence. They conjure up any excuse to raise prices; we've got history to prove this. This is a commodity that they control, namely, because they've bought out all the Pattens on technologies that could pose a very serious threat to their control, AND their profits. This is nothing knew.

A man a few years ago, developed a metal cutter that uses water. As strong as it is, it will not burn you, yet it's strong enough to cut through steal using something similar to welders. Big Oil tried to buy him off, and he refused; he instead sold that technology to anyone within the public sector. This technology could be used to create automobiles that use water, and Big Oil sees this as a threat.

Look at Bio-Fuels. Why are the oil companies so opposed to the increased use of this type of fuel, as opposed to gasoline? It is my opinion that Bio-Fuels could be created by the average citizen, whereas gasoline cannot.

It's all about control...control...control. They create our dependence on oil by eliminating possible threats (purchase power), and by controlling the supply in order to hike up prices. They've been doing this since the 1970's.


To show that prices are determined by supply and demand(not only by current demand but what traders think future demand will be) just look back a few years ago. In the summer of 2008 oil peaked around $140 a barrel. After the economic meltdown in the fall of 2008 oil prices fell dramatically and by the summer of 2009 were down to around $80 a barrel. And why was that? Simple. World demand fell because of the economic downturn. If there was any proof of collusion between the oil companies to fix prices don't you think the current anti-business administration in power would be going after them? Your claims are baseless and not supported by the facts.


I think that data is incorrect. Since 2005, demand has not increased as much as the price has. Even when the price of oil per barrel dropped, in nearly all cases, the price of fuel kept going up. Lybia only supplies 2% percent of the worlds oil, yet Big Oil believes that gas should increase to $5.00 bucks a gallon. Yea right! AS IF! This is nothing more than gouging the public.


Our free-market capitalist based society has given us a standard of living unprecedented in world history. Even our poor are better off then most people in a lot of third-world counties. Instead of bashing our capitalist system you should be thankful for it. Karl Marx thought he could come up with a better system than capitalism and look what the result was. Communism, which was a colossal failure not only economically but enslaved and murdered millions of people.

Clifford

There is a better system than Capitalism, as established by God. It's called family. Certainly there will always be those in God's kingdom who are rewarded for good works. But none in His kingdom should ever become poor. Poverty is the cause by greedy governments and corporate greed. When corporations abuse their employee's, be it here or abroad, in order to maximize their profits, that should be unacceptable. Wealth should be shared by all, and not just executives.

Capitalism has failed our country because it is not operating as it should. Athletes, and entertainers grow rich from their hard work. They supply what the public "wants" and not what the public "needs". Society does not need baseball players, yet they choose to see them because it is something they might be interested in seeing. Big Oil, on the other hand, is not wanted, but needed, yet it is THEY who have created the need by limiting other forms of energy and making it nearly impossible to get. Electricity is a need, but is very expensive and difficult to generate on your own. So what's the difference between the Athlete or Big Oil? One is needed and controlled by its providers, while the other is only wanted but not necessarily needed.

When society has to pay too much money for "needs", disposable income is limited, and too much control ends up going to our energy needs. Big Oil is doing nothing more than taking advantage of our needs in order to capitalize on their wants to satisfy their greed for excessive wealth. A Billionaire does not need to be a billionaire because he is merely hording up money for himself, but not spending that money back into the economy, which would create jobs. And if he is a billionaire, it's possible he's overworking his employees, or relying on foreign labor which is far cheaper, to capitalize on his profits. Money needs to circle in the economy, but when the top 10 percent hoard their money overseas, our economy cannot grow.

So should I be thankful for those greedy crooks? HECK NO! Yet I myself do not desire to be rich. Most importantly, I desire that all men be free, and not be subjected to the controls of the top 10 percent. God did not intended for man to live under such conditions. That is why it is impossible for the rich to enter into the kingdom of heaven; they have too much baggage to let go of before they can be considered worthy Saints in God's Kingdom, who requires all to share alike. The Rich are predisposed to their own greed, and will nearly never learn the meaning of grace. Remember the rich who donated from their wealth, yet a very old woman was abiding in their presence who had less than a penny? Yet who did Christ condemn? Was it not those who turned God's temple into a market for wealth, and how their wealth should have been used to assist the old woman, and NOT the building. That is exactly what has happened to our country. Crooks, thieves, and wolves have sacked our democracy and used money to empower them, while enslaving us. Corporates despise their employees, mistreat them, and could care less about their well being.

Capitalism is a system designed strictly for the controlling few, and not the enslaved many. It is anti-Christian, anti-society, and a form of slavery that uses money as a whip.

Joe

Clifford
03-28-2011, 04:55 AM
There aren't as many Big Oil companies as you're suggesting. :lol: If I'm not mistaken, there are less then 10 major oil companies. The ones that come to mind right off hand are BP, Exxon, Shell, Citgo, just to name a few. And I'm not simple minded enough to merely take the oil companies word for their innocence. They conjure up any excuse to raise prices; we've got history to prove this. This is a commodity that they control, namely, because they've bought out all the Pattens on technologies that could pose a very serious threat to their control, AND their profits. This is nothing knew.

A man a few years ago, developed a metal cutter that uses water. As strong as it is, it will not burn you, yet it's strong enough to cut through steal using something similar to welders. Big Oil tried to buy him off, and he refused; he instead sold that technology to anyone within the public sector. This technology could be used to create automobiles that use water, and Big Oil sees this as a threat.

Look at Bio-Fuels. Why are the oil companies so opposed to the increased use of this type of fuel, as opposed to gasoline? It is my opinion that Bio-Fuels could be created by the average citizen, whereas gasoline cannot.

It's all about control...control...control. They create our dependence on oil by eliminating possible threats (purchase power), and by controlling the supply in order to hike up prices. They've been doing this since the 1970's.



I think that data is incorrect. Since 2005, demand has not increased as much as the price has. Even when the price of oil per barrel dropped, in nearly all cases, the price of fuel kept going up. Lybia only supplies 2% percent of the worlds oil, yet Big Oil believes that gas should increase to $5.00 bucks a gallon. Yea right! AS IF! This is nothing more than gouging the public.



There is a better system than Capitalism, as established by God. It's called family. Certainly there will always be those in God's kingdom who are rewarded for good works. But none in His kingdom should ever become poor. Poverty is the cause by greedy governments and corporate greed. When corporations abuse their employee's, be it here or abroad, in order to maximize their profits, that should be unacceptable. Wealth should be shared by all, and not just executives.

Capitalism has failed our country because it is not operating as it should. Athletes, and entertainers grow rich from their hard work. They supply what the public "wants" and not what the public "needs". Society does not need baseball players, yet they choose to see them because it is something they might be interested in seeing. Big Oil, on the other hand, is not wanted, but needed, yet it is THEY who have created the need by limiting other forms of energy and making it nearly impossible to get. Electricity is a need, but is very expensive and difficult to generate on your own. So what's the difference between the Athlete or Big Oil? One is needed and controlled by its providers, while the other is only wanted but not necessarily needed.

When society has to pay too much money for "needs", disposable income is limited, and too much control ends up going to our energy needs. Big Oil is doing nothing more than taking advantage of our needs in order to capitalize on their wants to satisfy their greed for excessive wealth. A Billionaire does not need to be a billionaire because he is merely hording up money for himself, but not spending that money back into the economy, which would create jobs. And if he is a billionaire, it's possible he's overworking his employees, or relying on foreign labor which is far cheaper, to capitalize on his profits. Money needs to circle in the economy, but when the top 10 percent hoard their money overseas, our economy cannot grow.

So should I be thankful for those greedy crooks? HECK NO! Yet I myself do not desire to be rich. Most importantly, I desire that all men be free, and not be subjected to the controls of the top 10 percent. God did not intended for man to live under such conditions. That is why it is impossible for the rich to enter into the kingdom of heaven; they have too much baggage to let go of before they can be considered worthy Saints in God's Kingdom, who requires all to share alike. The Rich are predisposed to their own greed, and will nearly never learn the meaning of grace. Remember the rich who donated from their wealth, yet a very old woman was abiding in their presence who had less than a penny? Yet who did Christ condemn? Was it not those who turned God's temple into a market for wealth, and how their wealth should have been used to assist the old woman, and NOT the building. That is exactly what has happened to our country. Crooks, thieves, and wolves have sacked our democracy and used money to empower them, while enslaving us. Corporates despise their employees, mistreat them, and could care less about their well being.

Capitalism is a system designed strictly for the controlling few, and not the enslaved many. It is anti-Christian, anti-society, and a form of slavery that uses money as a whip.

Joe

The OPEC Cartel are the ones who control most of the worlds oil supply and production, so in effect they control the price of oil. If the oil companies are as big and powerful as you suggest then they would be controlling the world's governments. Kinda sounds like those people who believe a small group of people that belong to a secret society (the Illuminati I believe) effectively control the world's governments. Talk about a conspiracy theory!


Capitalism is a system designed strictly for the controlling few, and not the enslaved many. It is anti-Christian, anti-society, and a form of slavery that uses money as a whip.

Sounds like that could be a quote out of the Communist Manifesto. Karl Marx and Frederick Engels would have been proud of you. I'm sure they would have applauded your way of thinking.

Even the communist Chinese finally realized that to bring their people out of poverty and provide a better standard of living for them they needed to go from command style (state run and controlled) economy to a free market and capitalist based economy. And look what has happened in the past 20 or so years since they did that. Their economy has soared and all the people are benefiting. Of course Capitalism has it flaws and downside and needs some government oversight and regulation, but it is the best economic system yet devised and has bettered the lives of countless people. To see that all you have to do is look at history. Capitalist Free-Market based societies have provided a more prosperity for their people then those based on state control like Communism. That was amply demonstrated when the communists controlled eastern Europe before the fall of the Berlin Wall. Their standard of living was far below those in Western Europe where Capitalism was the basis of their economic system. Quit biting the hand that feeds you.

Clifford

TheForgiven
03-28-2011, 05:34 AM
The OPEC Cartel are the ones who control most of the worlds oil supply and production, so in effect they control the price of oil. If the oil companies are as big and powerful as you suggest then they would be controlling the world's governments. Kinda sounds like those people who believe a small group of people that belong to a secret society (the Illuminati I believe) effectively control the world's governments. Talk about a conspiracy theory!



Sounds like that could be a quote out of the Communist Manifesto. Karl Marx and Frederick Engels would have been proud of you. I'm sure they would have applauded your way of thinking.

Even the communist Chinese finally realized that to bring their people out of poverty and provide a better standard of living for them they needed to go from command style (state run and controlled) economy to a free market and capitalist based economy. And look what has happened in the past 20 or so years since they did that. Their economy has soared and all the people are benefiting. Of course Capitalism has it flaws and downside and needs some government oversight and regulation, but it is the best economic system yet devised and has bettered the lives of countless people. To see that all you have to do is look at history. Capitalist Free-Market based societies have provided a more prosperity for their people then those based on state control like Communism. That was amply demonstrated when the communists controlled eastern Europe before the fall of the Berlin Wall. Their standard of living was far below those in Western Europe where Capitalism was the basis of their economic system. Quit biting the hand that feeds you.

Clifford

I agree with you that Capitalism has its benefits, but as I indicated, it only benefits the 'few'. Capitalism is a system of economical control which forces those under its control to make choices, which in essence, would always end up benefiting the top 10 percent. The saying goes, 'Choice is an illusion created by those with power, upon those without power'. That is what Capitalism promotes. An example is the illogical response from oil companies, upon those of us who complain about high gas prices (when they clearly do not need to be high), their response is usually 'Buy a hybrid or walk to work'. This is an example of marketing control, and forcing society to make 'choices' that really weren’t ours to begin with; either way, you’re screwed based on the rules established by those with power; the choices we’re left with are based on circumstances created by the wealthy. Big Oil WANTS you to assist the auto-industry in buying a newer gas-saving car, OR you can tough it out and drive an older car, with an impressive V8, but pay the penalty at the pump. Of course, logically, no matter how high gas prices get, you’re always better off driving the clunker, vs. going into additional debt by buying a new car. The only way a new car would benefit is if it achieved more than 60 to 100 MPG, and its retail price was low enough to attract consumers. THEN it would be beneficial to purchase the newer car in exchange for the gassy old one. And if you’ve noticed, younger adults are relying on restoring older classic cars, ranging from the mid 70’s to the late 80’s; older cars are on a come-back because they’re cheaper to maintain, and not near as expensive as modern automobiles. Ask any person owning a 90’s Silverado if they are willing to sale it, chances are, you’d be out of luck.

Capitalism works ONLY if it is regulated. But quite honestly, have you not wondered why so many American’s are searching for Public Employee jobs from the government? It’s because of security. The government takes much better care of its employee’s, than Capitalist pigs, who only care about themselves and their dividends. It’s terrible when a company hires an employee, and lets them go short of retirement in order to prevent them from retiring. CEO’s and Executives complain about the cost of the American employee, but it’s ironic that their pensions are never questioned.

When you say, 'stop biting the hand that feeds you', you may want to consider that I’m in the US Armed Forces, and my funds are backed by the tax payer. I know that Rush Limbaugh likes to promote the idea that the top 10 percent pay the majority of taxes, but that is not necessarily true. The rich have enough loop-holes to prevent paying taxes, AND they also store their money in foreign bank accounts to evade taxes. Thus I believe that the true majority tax payer are those earning wages, tips, and salaries. Granted we get higher refunds at the end of the year, in the form of a child tax credit. But this type of system would not be required if the Capitalist pigs would stop being so greedy. And no, I don’t support a communist society. I believe in a mixture of Capitalism and Socialism. I believe that we should have the right to obtain wealth, but not by any means necessary. Wealth must be obtained for the benefit of the entire nation, and not just a select few. I also believe there should be a limit on how much wealth can be obtained. Because excessive wealth stored in savings accounts does not benefit the economy; it causes lower income people to take out high interest rate loans; another form of Capitalistic control over the public; the financial institution.

Here’s the best way to put it. If it’s too expensive that you cannot pay cash for, or at least finance in less than 4 years, chances are it isn’t worth it. A 30 year mortgage is too high, and severely impacts disposable income.

And quite frankly, you’re not being honest with yourself. Look at how high the un-employment rate has been under our Capitalistic society? Granted we’ve got a bunch of dummies who refuse to get a good education. But it’s not as though the top 10 percent are educated; most of them are scam artists. Look at George Bush Junior; he’s not that educated. What about George Bush Senior, or Donald Rumsfeld? Neither of them are highly educated. Those are perfect examples of abusing power to obtain wealth.

Lastly, ask yourself this question. What type of economical system would Christ choose? Communism, Capitalism, or Socialism? Think about it.

Joe

CWH
03-28-2011, 05:54 AM
Sorry, just to chip in:


Lastly, ask yourself this question. What type of economical system would Christ choose? Communism, Capitalism, or Socialism? Think about it.
Christ would use None of the above but Non-monetary system that uses love and brotherhood. Due to greed, Monetary systems have its flaws which will results in the big gap between the rich and poor, between the have and the have-not. Remember, we do not use money in heaven. This gives me a point that if all the monies in the world were to be equally distributed to the 7 billion people now living on earth, there will not be a single poor people in this world. But due to greed, this is impossible, the disparity of wealth will always remain and this is what Jesus said, " Matthew 26:11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me".

See my thread on "will we use money in heaven?" :

http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1346

Many Blessings.

TheForgiven
03-28-2011, 02:16 PM
Sorry, just to chip in:


Christ would use None of the above but Non-monetary system that uses love and brotherhood. Due to greed, Monetary systems have its flaws which will results in the big gap between the rich and poor, between the have and the have-not. Remember, we do not use money in heaven. This gives me a point that if all the monies in the world were to be equally distributed to the 7 billion people now living on earth, there will not be a single poor people in this world. But due to greed, this is impossible, the disparity of wealth will always remain and this is what Jesus said, " Matthew 26:11 The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me".

See my thread on "will we use money in heaven?" :

http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1346

Many Blessings.

Good post brother Cheow! :thumb: It's awesome that you and I have found common ground. And I enjoy debating/discussing Politics a heck of a lot more than eschatology.

Now about the class wars, I believe you will find throughout your research/studies, that the only economical system that causes this type of clash, as we have seen for decades, is in fact Capitalism.

Capitalism is just another form of communism, but in a hidden agenda. Instead of the markets being controlled by government, they are controlled by the Corporations. Unfortunately, the cookie crumbles even further when you take into account that large corporations have a great deal of power from within our own government. They use their political power and/or influence to pass legislation to make it legal for them to acquire profit. An example is automotive insurance. While I agree that everyone possessing a car should have motor insurance, I do not believe it should be mandated, primarily on the fact that when this went into law in the 1980's, the cost of auto insurance sky rocketed. I owned a 1974 Datson (yea I'm getting old) 710 Hatch Back that used to cost (prior to the insurance mandate) roughly $225 dollars for a 6 month policy term. When it became mandated to have insurance, the cost went up to about $325.00 dollars for a 6 month term. What happened? Were more accidents caused by the new law mandating automotive insurance? NO, this was nothing more than big corporations creating a mandate (thereby making this a need) in the attempt to make profit. And did this solve our problems? NO, people still drive without insurance (somehow they are able to get away with it), and yet automotive insurance continues to be one of the largest rip-offs in the American public.

I have a perfect record, having been insured with my company for nearly 19 years, and the only claim I've ever processed was having my windshield replaced; that cost less than $300 dollars, yet I've paid thousands of dollar into the system. And for some reason, my insurance keeps going up, possibly because of my increasing age.

So as you can see, when a "need" is created by law, and this need is a necessity to function/operate in our modern economy (you need a car), it's going to cost. I believe that all necessities of life (food, water, electricity, housing, energy) should all be controlled by the government in order to keep its cost to the bear minimum. This would increase disposable income for nearly all of American's and permit the market to engage in what Clifford likes to refer to as the "Free market Society". Unfortunately, the idea of Capitalism being a "Free market Society" is not true. It is only "free" to those who have the power (top 10 percent), while those who do not have the power, are succumbed to wage-enslavement.

Lastly, Capitalism is not only guilty of creating a class warfare, but is nothing more than a system of control designed to help the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. In truth, it is not much different than Communism; instead of being told how much you will earn by the government, you are told this by the Corporations, who continue to abuse workers, underpay them, and deny them security in their financial lives. Banks, Corporations, and other Capitalistic entities all want one thing....YOUR MONEY! And they will pass laws, or create the circumstances to force you, the worker, into choosing what they've wanted you to do in the first place; spend your hard earned money on what THEY want you to spend it on. And if you don't want to spend it on their energy gouging, then live on the street and become a dead-beat to society.

I totally despise Capitalsim for what it does to the working class; squeezing them dry and forcing them to not only live pay-check to pay-check, but credit card to credit card. Look at what the Banks have done with Home Mortgages, and the huge mess they created. They claimed that unfortunate people were taking out loans that they couldn't afford, and that was not the entire truth. Banks were over-bloating the value of a house, and promised them low monthly payments, while at the same time, were stealing from ESCROW accounts. I caught Bank of America doing this to me, sending me notices that my ESCROW account was in negative balance, when in fact, it was more than $3,000 dollars above what it should have been. They actually tried to foreclose my home because I refused to pay my property tax, which is what Bank of American reported as having been paid; that's why we pay into ESCROW; to cover tax and insurance. I guess they didn't think I knew how to add or something. :lol: But I read reports that hundreds, if not thousands, of home owners were being forced out of their homes unethically by pulling scams like this.

They purposely bloated the value of a house, selling it more than three times it's original cost, in order to get low-income people approved for a Mortgage without the usual 20 percent down-payment. That was one of a few scams they were pulling. My house was originally appraised at $141,000 dollars; it's roughly 1526 square feet sitting on .50 acres of land. NOW my house is only worth $128,000 thousand, yet that is exactly what I still owe. On top of that, with a near perfect credit history, my best interest rate was 5.99 percent. If I were to continue to reside here, on a full 30 year mortgage, my home balloon payment would total more than $300,000 dollars! THAT IS CAPITALISM for you! It totally amazes me how people think this is OK. Of course I plan on refinancing my home, but this is not possible until my balance drops below the value of my home. in the mean time, BoA will continue to make huge profits off of me until I'm able to refinance my home without having to put money down. As of now, my primary bank wants as 20% percent down-payment on the remaining balance before they will refinance my home; they've offered me 4% percent.

What's my belief/solution? As I've stated; the cost of living (home, water, food, energy, transportation) should be kept at a bear minimal cost, in order to increase public spending on retail outlets with products MADE IN AMERICA.

Joe