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Rose
07-03-2010, 09:04 PM
If I am to follow the example set by Jesus, can I expect any less of God….who tells me to love my enemies and forgive those who trespass against me?
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Matt.5:44-46 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Matt.6:14-15 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
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If God does indeed forgive all those who reject Him, how can it then be said that God sends those to hell who do not accept the Gospel?

Jesus tells us that in order to be children of God and be forgiven of our sins we must forgive our enemies, so it only stands to reason that the same be applied to God….right?


Rose

CWH
07-04-2010, 07:50 AM
If I am to follow the example set by Jesus, can I expect any less of God….who tells me to love my enemies and forgive those who trespass against me?
.
Matt.5:44-46 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Matt.6:14-15 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
.
If God does indeed forgive all those who reject Him, how can it then be said that God sends those to hell who do not accept the Gospel?

Jesus tells us that in order to be children of God and be forgiven of our sins we must forgive our enemies, so it only stands to reason that the same be applied to God….right?


Rose

Hi Rose,

I read the verses that you quote as warning by Jesus not to retaliate or "take the law into your own hands" rather than forgive your enemies. A website said it better:

"Let me be clear that God wants us to take actions of personal revenge out of our hands. We can turn them over to the governmental authorities if appropriate, and even if that doesn’t work, we need to turn them over to God Himself. As Paul states in Romans:

Repay no one evil for evil… . Beloved do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written 'Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,' says the Lord (Romans 12:17, 19).

http://bible.org/seriespage/jesus-and-law-retaliation-lex-talionis-matthew-538-42

Many Blessings.

Rose
07-04-2010, 08:28 AM
Hi Rose,

I read the verses that you quote as warning by Jesus not to retaliate or "take the law into your own hands" rather than forgive your enemies. A website said it better:

"Let me be clear that God wants us to take actions of personal revenge out of our hands. We can turn them over to the governmental authorities if appropriate, and even if that doesn’t work, we need to turn them over to God Himself. As Paul states in Romans:

Repay no one evil for evil… . Beloved do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written 'Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,' says the Lord (Romans 12:17, 19).

http://bible.org/seriespage/jesus-and-law-retaliation-lex-talionis-matthew-538-42

Many Blessings.

Hi Cheow,

The main point of my question was God requiring us to forgive someone who has done us wrong (whether or not they ask for forgiveness) in order to be a child of God and go to heaven. If that is the case then does God live according to His own rules and forgive all those who trespass against Him even if they don't ask for it?

God Bless

Rose

Clifford
07-04-2010, 02:51 PM
Hi Cheow,

The main point of my question was God requiring us to forgive someone who has done us wrong (whether or not they ask for forgiveness) in order to be a child of God and go to heaven. If that is the case then does God live according to His own rules and forgive all those who trespass against Him even if they don't ask for it?

God Bless

Rose

Hi Rose,

I think we are dealing with two different issues here. God tells us to forgive those who trespass against us for our own good. If we hold unforgiveness against another person it will be harmful to us and will lead to all sorts of bad things in our lives like bitterness, resentment etc. However by forgiving a person we are not saying what they did to us was OK, nor does it absolve them of what they did. They still must answer to God for what they did unless they repent of it.

On the other hand God does not need to forgive a person's sin in order not to have bitterness, anger, etc reside in Him like us humans. When God forgives a person of their sin it is to absolve them of it so they can be made righteous in God's sight and have fellowship with Him. I think the Bible is clear that we must ask God to forgive us our sins before he will do so. God does not automatically forgive them. Here are just two verses that show this and I could find many more.

Now repent of your sins and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped away. Acts 3:20.

The opposite would be true. If they did not repent of their sins and turn to God their sins would not be wiped away.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1John 1:9

Our sins are only forgiven if we confess them.

Clifford

Rose
07-04-2010, 06:20 PM
Hi Rose,

I think we are dealing with two different issues here. God tells us to forgive those who trespass against us for our own good. If we hold unforgiveness against another person it will be harmful to us and will lead to all sorts of bad things in our lives like bitterness, resentment etc. However by forgiving a person we are not saying what they did to us was OK, nor does it absolve them of what they did. They still must answer to God for what they did unless they repent of it.

On the other hand God does not need to forgive a person's sin in order not to have bitterness, anger, etc reside in Him like us humans. When God forgives a person of their sin it is to absolve them of it so they can be made righteous in God's sight and have fellowship with Him. I think the Bible is clear that we must ask God to forgive us our sins before he will do so. God does not automatically forgive them. Here are just two verses that show this and I could find many more.

Now repent of your sins and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped away. Acts 3:20.

The opposite would be true. If they did not repent of their sins and turn to God their sins would not be wiped away.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1John 1:9

Our sins are only forgiven if we confess them.

Clifford

Hi Clifford,

I agree, forgiveness is for our own good, but nevertheless it is still a requirement to becoming a child of God, just as loving our enemies is.

I know that we are forgiven our sins if we ask God, but if God loves his enemies, and prays for those who reject him all the while seeking out those who are lost....who can resist?


Rose

CWH
07-04-2010, 07:10 PM
Hi Cheow,

The main point of my question was God requiring us to forgive someone who has done us wrong (whether or not they ask for forgiveness) in order to be a child of God and go to heaven. If that is the case then does God live according to His own rules and forgive all those who trespass against Him even if they don't ask for it?

God Bless

Rose

Hi Rose,

My main point is to answer the question of this thread:
Does God love his enemies, and forgive all those who trespass against him?

The verses that you quote doesn't sounds like forgiveness or love your enemies but more like "do not retaliate for the vengeance belongs to the Lord". This is confirmed by another verse in Matthew same chapter, chapter 5 which says to settle whatever differences with your adversary 1st before he brings you to court.

25"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.[d]

The destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in AD 70 in which more than a million Jews were killed was a good example of vengeance against those who killed the Lord. Does this sounds like God's forgiveness and love of the enemies?

Many Blessings.

Clifford
07-05-2010, 02:05 PM
Hi Clifford,

I agree, forgiveness is for our own good, but nevertheless it is still a requirement to becoming a child of God, just as loving our enemies is.

I know that we are forgiven our sins if we ask God, but if God loves his enemies, and prays for those who reject him all the while seeking out those who are lost....who can resist?


Rose

Hi Rose,


I agree, forgiveness is for our own good, but nevertheless it is still a requirement to becoming a child of God, just as loving our enemies is.

The requirement to becoming a child of God is believing in the name of His Son Jesus. Forgiving and loving our enemies is the result of that or should be.


I know that we are forgiven our sins if we ask God, but if God loves his enemies, and prays for those who reject him all the while seeking out those who are lost....who can resist?

Many people are resisting God and his will as can be plainly seen in the world today and throughout history.

Clifford

Clifford
07-05-2010, 02:08 PM
Hi Rose,

My main point is to answer the question of this thread:
Does God love his enemies, and forgive all those who trespass against him?

The verses that you quote doesn't sounds like forgiveness or love your enemies but more like "do not retaliate for the vengeance belongs to the Lord". This is confirmed by another verse in Matthew same chapter, chapter 5 which says to settle whatever differences with your adversary 1st before he brings you to court.

25"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.[d]

The destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in AD 70 in which more than a million Jews were killed was a good example of vengeance against those who killed the Lord. Does this sounds like God's forgiveness and love of the enemies?

Many Blessings.

Hi Cheow,


The destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in AD 70 in which more than a million Jews were killed was a good example of vengeance against those who killed the Lord. Does this sounds like God's forgiveness and love of the enemies?

Good point. It just shows we must be balanced in our view of God. If we just concentrate on the verses that speak of God's love and forgiveness and ignore the verses that speak of His wrath and judgment we will have a distorted view of God.

Clifford