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Screaming Eagle
02-16-2010, 08:06 PM
Anybody ever looked closely at the word used for 'wrestled' in Gen 32:24? It's the only time that word is used in Hebrew scripture which always gets my attention. It literally means 'to vaporize' or 'bedust'.

Interestingly enough, the only time the word 'wrestle' is used in Greek is by Paul in Ephesians 6. It means 'to vibrate'.

Here are some notes I made about it:


079. 'abaq, aleph vet kof only two uses v 24, 25
a primitive root, probably to float away (as vapor), but used only as denominative from 80; to bedust, i.e. grapple:-- wrestle.

See Hebrew 080 ('abaq) light particles (as volatile), small dust, powder; root is 079
Ex 9:9 And it shall become 'small dust' in all the land of Egypt, Dt 28:24 'powder' and 'aphar dust: Is 5:24 shall go up 'as dust'; Is 29:5 shall be like 'small dust'; Ez 26:10 their 'dust' shall cover; Na 1:3 and the clouds are the 'dust' of His feet.

Richard Amiel McGough
02-16-2010, 08:20 PM
Anybody ever looked closely at the word used for 'wrestled' in Gen 32:24? It's the only time that word is used in Hebrew scripture which always gets my attention. It literally means 'to vaporize' or 'bedust'.

Interestingly enough, the only time the word 'wrestle' is used in Greek is by Paul in Ephesians 6. It means 'to vibrate'.

Here are some notes I made about it:


079. 'abaq, aleph vet kof only two uses v 24, 25
a primitive root, probably to float away (as vapor), but used only as denominative from 80; to bedust, i.e. grapple:-- wrestle.

See Hebrew 080 ('abaq) light particles (as volatile), small dust, powder; root is 079
Ex 9:9 And it shall become 'small dust' in all the land of Egypt, Dt 28:24 'powder' and 'aphar dust: Is 5:24 shall go up 'as dust'; Is 29:5 shall be like 'small dust'; Ez 26:10 their 'dust' shall cover; Na 1:3 and the clouds are the 'dust' of His feet.
That is very interesting! I love this kind of study. I find it particularly interesting that there is a lot of word play on the name of Jacob. His name is almost an anagram of Jabbok (the river over which he sent his wives immediately before wrestling with God), and it also is closely related to the word "wrestle" -

Jacob..... Yod Ayin Quph Bet

Jabbok.......... Yod Bet Quph

Wrestle....... Aleph Bet Quph

This is particularly significant because there is a symbolic and grammatical relation between Aleph and Yod.

The relation between abaq and Jacob is amplified by the fact that abaq appears only in this one context.

So ... what does this all mean?

Richard

Screaming Eagle
02-16-2010, 08:30 PM
Personally, I think it's a description of dying to self and being born (as evidenced by the name change) in Him. I can't prove that, but that's the sense I get. After this episode, sometimes he's referred to as Jacob and sometimes he's referred to as Israel.

Cardinal
11-26-2010, 04:52 PM
:thumb:
Anybody ever looked closely at the word used for 'wrestled' in Gen 32:24? It's the only time that word is used in Hebrew scripture which always gets my attention. It literally means 'to vaporize' or 'bedust'.

Interestingly enough, the only time the word 'wrestle' is used in Greek is by Paul in Ephesians 6. It means 'to vibrate'.

Here are some notes I made about it:


079. 'abaq, aleph vet kof only two uses v 24, 25
a primitive root, probably to float away (as vapor), but used only as denominative from 80; to bedust, i.e. grapple:-- wrestle.

See Hebrew 080 ('abaq) light particles (as volatile), small dust, powder; root is 079
Ex 9:9 And it shall become 'small dust' in all the land of Egypt, Dt 28:24 'powder' and 'aphar dust: Is 5:24 shall go up 'as dust'; Is 29:5 shall be like 'small dust'; Ez 26:10 their 'dust' shall cover; Na 1:3 and the clouds are the 'dust' of His feet.

:thumb: How about the fact that dust and cloud are related, ie. the smallest particle of something, and that to quicken, as in quicken our mortal bodies, means, to vibrate? Adam was taken from the DUST of the earth, those He falls upon He grounds to POWDER (dust), and He's coming in the clouds.

NumberX
11-30-2010, 03:47 AM
That is very interesting! I love this kind of study. I find it particularly interesting that there is a lot of word play on the name of Jacob. His name is almost an anagram of Jabbok (the river over which he sent his wives immediately before wrestling with God), (...)

Dear Richard, it is not written that Jacob wrestled with God. With the help of gematria we can understand where Jacob wrestled with. In Jewish tradition it is written that this 'man' was the 'sar' of Esau, an 'above-the-world' 'lord' of Esau. Jesus is called "Lord of lords" so that means that there are other lords too. All the details of this wrestling tell much about this meeting between Jacob and this creature of Esau where the changing of the name of Jacob took place. About the name change:

Jacob (10-70-100-2) = 182
Israel (10-300-200-1-30) = 541
So an old name is added: 541-182 = 359. This is the number we (should) know, of the word 'satan' (300-9-50). It's not that Israel is Satan, but Jacob made Satan powerless by absorbing him, gematria shows us. We can look up what the word satan means that is added.

Source: I have a book where even more is written about it. It supports also what you have already written about it, that it is a wrestle concerning dust, the words point at this direction:
The words for that river to cross and the dust and wrestling have the same root. (He doesn't mention the root but if I summerize and understand it well that must be Beth-Quph).

It's a wonder-full study, I agree.