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    Scott

    9 1 1

    God{Elohim=86) placed digit # 3213 3138 digits

    after the first occurrence of the Hebrew sum of his name,

    and he knew that

    Scott Yesterday, 10:16 PM Go to last post
    Scott

    9 1 1

    My first, middle, and last name have 7, 5, and 6 letters, and a combined sum of, 1590.

    This is what we see at the first occurrence of 1590

    Scott 02-23-2021, 05:34 PM Go to last post
    Greatest I am

    Do you argue to win or to lose?

    I am asking if you put man over god or god over man?

    On that love that kills.

    Love cures, it does not kill. A good god would

    Greatest I am 02-23-2021, 12:12 PM Go to last post
    Greatest I am

    Do you argue to win or to lose?

    In the beginning, a person, likely a loud mouthed man, said the first word.

    The highest form of god is a man.

    Prove me wrong.

    Greatest I am 02-22-2021, 02:32 PM Go to last post
    Scott

    9 1 1

    Digit # 2368{3534) + 86 + 1590 + 666 + 216 digits = digit # 4926



    Count the number of the beast = 1680 (a=6 b=12 c=18...

    Scott 02-22-2021, 02:07 PM Go to last post
    Nothing

    Do you argue to win or to lose?

    The majority of Christians today are liberal, lukewarm and watered down. They allow profanity, homosexuality in the church, fly the rainbow flag, smoke

    Nothing 02-22-2021, 12:50 AM Go to last post
    Mosiach

    I am Messiah Ben David

    I bought the bible wheel book. I study the Torah day and night. I first became enlightened in 2015 when I was in hospital. Read the bible since I was

    Mosiach 02-21-2021, 06:35 PM Go to last post
    Scott

    9 1 1

    156 + 906 + 1590 + 666 + 216 = 3534

    After the first 2368 digits of Pi the number 3534

    begins to occur for the first time.

    Scott 02-21-2021, 12:33 PM Go to last post
    Greatest I am

    Do you argue to win or to lose?

    It is hard for me to see Christians as liberal, given that they are fascists.

    It is also hard to see Christians as intelligent when they

    Greatest I am 02-21-2021, 11:42 AM Go to last post
    Nothing

    Do you argue to win or to lose?

    There have been a few, a couple of funny ones I remember off the top of my head have been dealing with contemporary Christians over issues such as "should

    Nothing 02-20-2021, 07:28 PM Go to last post
    Greatest I am

    Do you argue to win or to lose?

    Having non-believers or believers think of what type of issue or moral?

    Give an example please.

    Loneliness is a bitch.

    Greatest I am 02-20-2021, 04:56 PM Go to last post
    Nothing

    Do you argue to win or to lose?

    Most of the time I'll engage in arguments for entertainment, or as I've recently discovered about myself, out of loneliness. If the argument gets heated

    Nothing 02-20-2021, 01:13 AM Go to last post
    Pangga

    What lifted you up during these trying times?

    The past year hasn't been very good to say the least. Most of it just staying home, making sure we're safe. Doing chores then laying down to play roof

    Pangga 02-19-2021, 10:13 AM Go to last post
    Greatest I am

    Do you argue to win or to lose?

    The indoctrinated are indeed the hardest to help, and unfortunately, religious indoctrination is quite hard to reverse. Most initial indoctrinations suffered

    Greatest I am 02-19-2021, 09:38 AM Go to last post
    Greatest I am

    Do you argue to win or to lose?

    All true.

    It sounds like you argue to win. Yes?

    So do I but hope to lose, so that I might learn something new.

    Greatest I am 02-19-2021, 09:33 AM Go to last post
  • Why I Quit Christianity

    Since I began this website back in 2001, and during most of the decade that followed, I identified myself as a “Bible-believing Christian” in no uncertain terms. For example, here is how I described myself in my old FAQ (which remains on the archive of my old site for historical purposes):

    Are you a Christian? Protestant? Catholic?

    Praise God, I am a man saved by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Ephesian 2:8). I am a non-denominational blood-bought Bible-believing Trinitarian Christian. I believe that the true “faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3) is well stated in the early creeds of the church that Christ founded.

    Likewise, here is my testimony about the purpose of my website on the old homepage:
    To this end I labour, to glorify the Triune God; to glorify the Father Almighty, Creator of all, to glorify His Son Jesus Christ my Saviour and Hope, and to glorify the Giver of all divine gifts, my Comforter, Guide, Teacher and Friend, God the Holy Spirit. To You be the glory, thrice holy blessed God of Eternity! To You be the glory, now and forevermore. Amen. Amen. Amen.

    And here are the thanks I gave to Christ on my old About page:
    I remain eternally grateful to my Lord Jesus Christ, the King of the Universe, for shedding His Light upon me and guiding my path – usually without my knowledge – and giving me both the burning desire and the ability to proclaim the neverending wonders of His Holy Word. Oh! The wonders of His Grace! Had He left me to myself, doubtless I’d be dead or wandering aimless and lost through this dark world. Thank you, my Lord!

    So, that’s where I was at for most of the last couple decades. How then is it possible that I now reject the faith I once believed with such passion? What changed? The answer is really pretty simple. I was “blinded” by the light I saw in the Bible. Anyone who has entered in to the Bible with believing eyes knows how it can capture the soul. It feels alive. It touches chords that resonate down into the deepest parts of ourselves. It seems to be filled with light everywhere you look: the Gospel message shines with its numinous symbolic elements like the Alpha Omega, the Cross, the Dove, the Death and Resurrection of Christ, and on and on it goes. Who wouldn’t want to believe such a story? Indeed, the believer wonders how anyone could resist such an amazing Gospel message. And beyond all that, I had the overwhelming witness of the Bible Wheel which seemed to confirm everything about the Bible as the very Word of God. All these things blinded me to the “dark side” of the Bible. I simply “overlooked” all the problematic passages, errors, contradictions, and moral abominations that didn’t fit with the amazingly glorious, and blinding, vision of the Bible as “God’s Word.”

    So here are three of the primary issues that conspired to finally convince me that the traditional Christian faith is not true:
    1) The Doctrine of Hell
    I cannot conceive of a good God who would design an eternal evil in which souls suffer eternal conscious torment. This is a central doctrine accepted by the vast majority of Christians. It always bothered me throughout my time as a Christian, but I put it on the “back burner” and didn’t think about it much.

    2) The Bible contains many errors, contradictions, logical absurdities, and moral abominations attributed to God.
    This point covers a very large class of problems. Many recent threads on my forum deal with them. The most significant to me are the moral abominations attributed to God, such as his command to kill all the men, women, and children of people in Canaan, or the slaughter of all the Midianites except 32,000 virgins that were then distributed to the soldiers (Numbers 31).

    3) God does not, as a general rule, answer prayers.
    This fact seems incontrovertible and it directly contradicts the central promises of the Bible. It was the “final straw” for me. It has nothing to do with any personal prayers that were not answered. The problem is that the promises in the Bible simply are not true.

    There were many other issues, such as the general corruption of institutional Christianity (as witnessed by the ongoing cover-up of Ergun Caner’s decade of lies) and the general gullibility and anti-intellectualism of Christians (as witnessed by Harold Camping predicting the end of the world on May 21, 2011 and being given $81,000,000 by his brain-dead followers even after his previous failed date), but this is a pretty good overview. I would be delighted to discuss these points in detail with anyone interested.

    This article was originally published on my old WordPress blog (link) which has over 200 comments.
    Comments 101 Comments
    1. mrbrucewayne's Avatar
      mrbrucewayne -
      Hey Richard, I think it a bit wiser to ask you how then to explain the multitudes of layers of mathematical, typologies and prophetical patterns and codes within the Hebrew, Greek and King-James testaments of the Bible?

      The code of sevens alone would seemingly go beyond the capacity of man to Author himself. And then there are extremely deep mathematical patterns and codes found in Genesis 1;1 and John 1:1 which show that someone may have at least had computer-like ability and possible genetic knowlege thousands of years ago...........Both Pi and e as scientific constants showing up in the above verses as well as Universal 2 and 3 dimensional geometric shapes being formed by the same verses...And since the patterns flow across the span of thousands of years connecting several languages.......Wouldn't one suspect that some higher than normal Human intelligence as the Bible Author?

      And is it not fair to follow the Bible in it's assertion that those other groups of people which were to be exterminated were the offspring of Fallen Angels and therefore destined to be forever enemies of the generation of Adam?

      It may seem cruel, but there does seem to be some logic in destroying ones enemies in the same way you might a cancer before it spreads and further infects and in turn then kills both you and your offspring as well as your culture.
    1. mrbrucewayne's Avatar
      mrbrucewayne -
      It's very evident from your site that someone or perhaps just plain luck has enabled you to find some very amazing patterns within the Bible and yet as the plain text of the Bible says " God uses the simple things to confound the wise"......Don't allow yourself so easily to be confounded.....fight to keep your faith, not destroy it!

      The key to apparent anomaly's within the story's as an explanation might be the doctrine of letting every word be established in the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses as some of the testimony's are simply the recollection of one of the Authors...for instance, the attendees on the day of Pentecost all heard in their own language, or weather there were two thousand loaves and 5 fishes or 5 thousand loaves and two fishes does not matter accept that everyone was fed.

      Bruce
    1. Richard Amiel McGough's Avatar
      Richard Amiel McGough -
      Quote Originally Posted by mrbrucewayne View Post
      Hey Richard, I think it a bit wiser to ask you how then to explain the multitudes of layers of mathematical, typologies and prophetical patterns and codes within the Hebrew, Greek and King-James testaments of the Bible?

      The code of sevens alone would seemingly go beyond the capacity of man to Author himself. And then there are extremely deep mathematical patterns and codes found in Genesis 1;1 and John 1:1 which show that someone may have at least had computer-like ability and possible genetic knowlege thousands of years ago...........Both Pi and e as scientific constants showing up in the above verses as well as Universal 2 and 3 dimensional geometric shapes being formed by the same verses...And since the patterns flow across the span of thousands of years connecting several languages.......Wouldn't one suspect that some higher than normal Human intelligence as the Bible Author?
      Hey there mrbrucewayne,

      Welcome to our forum!



      I very much appreciate your comments. What you are suggesting is exactly what I proclaimed for most the last two decades. I thought it was obvious that the patterns I and others had discovered could not be the work of any human or group of humans. I thought it was solid incontrovertible proof of the divine design of the Bible. That's why I titled my book "The Bible Wheel: A Revelation of the Divine Unity of the Holy Bible." And that was just one part of the evidence I saw. The amazing alphanumeric patterns uniting Genesis 1:1-5 and John 1:1-5 are another witness, and there are many others. And all this evidence still stands. It has never been refuted.

      But the same mind that tells me the patterns show some sort of supernatural influence on the Bible just as clearly tells me that the image of God presented in its pages cannot be true. If I twist my mind to justify those statements my integrity would be destroyed no less than if I said 2 + 2 = 17. The same integrity that led me to discover the patterns prohibits me from justifying the errors, contradictions, and moral abominations attributed to God in the Bible. I've seen what happens to minds that take the "other path" and try to justify the Bible as the "inerrant and infallible Word of God." Their minds and their morals become totally corrupted. I am not willing to follow that path.

      Quote Originally Posted by mrbrucewayne View Post
      And is it not fair to follow the Bible in it's assertion that those other groups of people which were to be exterminated were the offspring of Fallen Angels and therefore destined to be forever enemies of the generation of Adam?
      I see absolutely no justification for the assertion that the Canaanites were the offspring of Fallen Angels. If that were true, then why would Moses command all the Midianites to be killed except 32,000 virgins that were distributed to the soldiers?

      Quote Originally Posted by mrbrucewayne View Post
      It may seem cruel, but there does seem to be some logic in destroying ones enemies in the same way you might a cancer before it spreads and further infects and in turn then kills both you and your offspring as well as your culture.
      Sure, I can see that. But there is no reason to think that the Canaanites were any more wicked than the Israelites. And even if they were, God could have destroyed them himself rather than command that his people become merciless genocidal baby killers! That's the real problem. The command to murder every man, woman, and child brutalized the Israelites. It destroyed their souls and made them evil. It is not a command that could have come from the true God. And besides, the commands attributed to God in the Bible look just like those we see given by all the other Bronze age tribal war gods. So why would the true God choose to impersonate a brutal Bronze age tribal war god? And why did his image improve as man evolved better morality? Looks like the image of God in the Bible was simply made up from the ideas of men current at the time it was written.

      Quote Originally Posted by mrbrucewayne View Post
      It's very evident from your site that someone or perhaps just plain luck has enabled you to find some very amazing patterns within the Bible and yet as the plain text of the Bible says " God uses the simple things to confound the wise"......Don't allow yourself so easily to be confounded.....fight to keep your faith, not destroy it!
      I'm not trying to support or destroy faith - I'm trying to present truth to the best of my ability. False faith destroys truth, and truth destroys false faith. So we need only pursue truth, and then we'll know what to believe.

      Quote Originally Posted by mrbrucewayne View Post
      The key to apparent anomaly's within the story's as an explanation might be the doctrine of letting every word be established in the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses as some of the testimony's are simply the recollection of one of the Authors...for instance, the attendees on the day of Pentecost all heard in their own language, or weather there were two thousand loaves and 5 fishes or 5 thousand loaves and two fishes does not matter accept that everyone was fed.

      Bruce
      I consider the "two or three witnesses" to be the "Fundamental Principle of Biblical Hermeneutics." But I don't think it will fix the problems I see in the Bible. Many of them are confirmed by many witnesses.

      Again, welcome to the forum! I really appreciate your comments.

      Richard
    1. Unregistered's Avatar
      Unregistered -
      On God answering Prayer...He always does answer to those who believe in the perfect, righteous sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ as the atonement for all who believe on His name and by this belief become Children of God, born not of flesh but of the Spirit of God.
      "That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. He was in the world and the world was made through Him and the world did not know Him. He came to His own and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor the will of man but of God." John 1:9-13 NKJV

      If you believe there is any other way to eternal life, other than the Lord Jesus Christ and his blood atonement, then you do not truly believe and you are not saved and you are not God's child. If you are not His child then the promises He gives are not yours. A promise such as...

      "So Jesus answered and said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but also if you say to this mountain, 'Be removed and be cast into the sea,' it will be done "And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." "Mat 21:21-22 NKJV

      If you believe He is who He says He and He died and rose for your eternal soul, then this promise is yours. He has answered hundreds upon hundreds of prayers for me, sometimes "yes", sometimes "no", sometimes by absolute miracles and sometimes the answer is "not yet".

      There are true believers who ask and get a no....because of this...

      " If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind.
      For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; [he is] a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways. You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend [it] on your pleasures. Jam 1:5-8

      As our perfect Father, who only wants His children's good (I repeat HIS CHILDREN) He knows when what we ask for will harm us and He knows when what we ask is selfish and not of Him. The following is how He answers prayer that is of Him, verses prayer that is for our own selfish hearts...


      " On that night God appeared to Solomon, and said to him, "Ask! What shall I give you?"
      And Solomon said to God: "You have shown great mercy to David my father, and have made me king in his place.
      "Now, O LORD God, let Your promise to David my father be established, for You have made me king over a people like the dust of the earth in multitude.
      "Now give me wisdom and knowledge, that I may go out and come in before this people; for who can judge this great people of Yours?"
      Then God said to Solomon: "Because this was in your heart, and you have not asked riches or wealth or honor or the life of your enemies, nor have you asked long life--but have asked wisdom and knowledge for yourself, that you may judge My people over whom I have made you king--
      "wisdom and knowledge [are] granted to you; and I will give you riches and wealth and honor, such as none of the kings have had who [were] before you, nor shall any after you have the like." 2Ch 1:7-12.

      Pretty cool stuff. But you have to be His child, not merely His creation. Go re-read John 1-3 and the entire book of 1 John. Amazing!!!!!!!

      I pray you find your way back to your savior. In Jesus' name, Amen
    1. MELCHEZEDIC's Avatar
      MELCHEZEDIC -
      Dear Brother Richard
      Be carefull that you not go shipwreck. There is unfortunately two different seeds planted in Gods vineyard. Since the tares out number the wheat 4 to 1, just like any other so called democracy, when there are more people agreeing with the wolves who have come in under the covering of sheeps clothing, and the tendency of all mens heart, is to do evil the tares are encouraged by the teachers who tickle there ears. The unfortunate part of all of this, is that the wheat become braided together with the tares, in doubt and unbelief. My people die daily, for the lack of food. Thank God you have been separarted from
      the whore who prostitutes herself, and has deceived the whole world. The whore is spiritual in nature and is not kept from entering into the various households of faith, through the doctrines and traditions of men.
      The truth is that she is protected by those same said doctrines and traditions, be they denominational or non- denominational, Non-denominationalism is just as much a denomination in and of it's self as those denominations that claim there birth right from the symbolic whore, the Catholic church. Unless you put on the spiritual eyes we have been given to see the truth that lies beneath the surface of the literal word of God, we will never beable to see the revelation, that struck Paul and knocked him off of his Horse. Jesus taught in similitudes and parables as a means by which to unveil to us the hidden manna of God.
      With those eyes we were to go on to know him in the revealed word of the Father. This is that bedrock that Jesus built his ministry upon, The revealed word of the Father. I say nothing that I hear not the FATHER say, and I do nothing that I see not the FATHER do. Peter , flesh and blood has not REVEALED this to you, but my Father in heaven has !. Upon this rock, the bedrock of the revealed word of the Father, shall I build my church. The stones hued out of the mountain of God, are the sons and daughters of God who have come as the first son and are his brothers and sisters. These stones die to there self life, outside of the camp just as Jesus did. We have to come out from the hedge, placed around Israel to protect her, so that we can be put to death a literal spiritual death to self. Then are we buried, that seed of faith in us, must fall into the ground and die. These are the son's and daughters of God, as the prodigal son's, resurrected as was his friend Lasurus. Everything Jeus SAID and DID, was the revealing of the Father, to the son's and daughters. It's the hidden manna of God, that was given to Israel in her wilderness trial and testing, just as it is with us, as it was for the forty days and nights Jesus was tempted. 40 is the number of completion / wholeness / made one with God. Your are on your spiritual wilderness trial and testing, out side of the camp. At the skull of Gilgotha, shall you die. Then shall you be made one with the Father through the Son. We shall come to you and supp with you. This is the promise of the Father and of the Son to all of us, who by faith allow our selves to die, Not my will, but thy will be done. This must come as a willing sacrifice, not from compulsion, but from love. Keep the Faith
    1. Richard Amiel McGough's Avatar
      Richard Amiel McGough -
      Quote Originally Posted by MELCHEZEDIC View Post
      Dear Brother Richard
      Be carefull that you not go shipwreck. There is unfortunately two different seeds planted in Gods vineyard. Since the tares out number the wheat 4 to 1, just like any other so called democracy, when there are more people agreeing with the wolves who have come in under the covering of sheeps clothing, and the tendency of all mens heart, is to do evil the tares are encouraged by the teachers who tickle there ears. The unfortunate part of all of this, is that the wheat become braided together with the tares, in doubt and unbelief. My people die daily, for the lack of food. Thank God you have been separarted from
      the whore who prostitutes herself, and has deceived the whole world. The whore is spiritual in nature and is not kept from entering into the various households of faith, through the doctrines and traditions of men.
      The truth is that she is protected by those same said doctrines and traditions, be they denominational or non- denominational, Non-denominationalism is just as much a denomination in and of it's self as those denominations that claim there birth right from the symbolic whore, the Catholic church. Unless you put on the spiritual eyes we have been given to see the truth that lies beneath the surface of the literal word of God, we will never beable to see the revelation, that struck Paul and knocked him off of his Horse. Jesus taught in similitudes and parables as a means by which to unveil to us the hidden manna of God.
      With those eyes we were to go on to know him in the revealed word of the Father. This is that bedrock that Jesus built his ministry upon, The revealed word of the Father. I say nothing that I hear not the FATHER say, and I do nothing that I see not the FATHER do. Peter , flesh and blood has not REVEALED this to you, but my Father in heaven has !. Upon this rock, the bedrock of the revealed word of the Father, shall I build my church. The stones hued out of the mountain of God, are the sons and daughters of God who have come as the first son and are his brothers and sisters. These stones die to there self life, outside of the camp just as Jesus did. We have to come out from the hedge, placed around Israel to protect her, so that we can be put to death a literal spiritual death to self. Then are we buried, that seed of faith in us, must fall into the ground and die. These are the son's and daughters of God, as the prodigal son's, resurrected as was his friend Lasurus. Everything Jeus SAID and DID, was the revealing of the Father, to the son's and daughters. It's the hidden manna of God, that was given to Israel in her wilderness trial and testing, just as it is with us, as it was for the forty days and nights Jesus was tempted. 40 is the number of completion / wholeness / made one with God. Your are on your spiritual wilderness trial and testing, out side of the camp. At the skull of Gilgotha, shall you die. Then shall you be made one with the Father through the Son. We shall come to you and supp with you. This is the promise of the Father and of the Son to all of us, who by faith allow our selves to die, Not my will, but thy will be done. This must come as a willing sacrifice, not from compulsion, but from love. Keep the Faith
      Hey there Melchezedic,

      I appreciate your exhortation and I agree that there is much that is symbolic in the Bible. I have no problem with that. But interpreting the Bible symbolically does not solve the problems that I have with it. Your comments are quite general and do not address any of the problems I raised in this thread. I invite you to address those if you are so inclined.

      All the best,

      Richard
    1. MELCHEZEDIC's Avatar
      MELCHEZEDIC -
      Richard
      If we deal with the bandages, we won't get to the root of the problem. There is somthing not right, if we come into a position of judging God. Who are you old man to judge God. I believe we are dealing with a spirit of legalism. You know the legalist come up with all sorts of reason why they not able to trust God to be perfect in his judgements and merciful in his punishment. To me, when we go about picking out what it is we don't agree with, we are looking for a reason not to believe. It's this sort of thinking that blocks the way for them who would enter in by faith. You asked for pacifics, and being pacific means you want a absolute answer for that which we are to receive by faith. There are hundreds of reasons why what has been written doesn't seem right, it won't end with getting the answers you want on these pacific issues.
      This I can tell you, if I wanted to be merciful in a macro way, I would wreak so much havoc on one nation, and be so devasting to the point of eliminating there off spring, so that no other nation would ever be tempted to make that mistake again. Sodom and Gemorah are a good example of what I am saying. There will never ever be a single country or nation that will ever have to suffer what they did, just because of the utter devastation that took place. To me, that is being merciful. The same is true with an eternal hell fire. There are far fewer people who will ever have to suffer that judgement due to the eternal threat of an ever lasting torment. Is it better or worse, that you lose you soul immediately with no further punishment, as in the death penalty, or that you should hang in public for the rest of your life.
      Trust me, if the latter was what we gave as a penalty for taking a life, there would be alot less people killing each other. The unfortunate truth of who and what man is, is that as you can see, unless you make the punishment so unthinkable, we will continue to do what it is, that brings us into judgement. The whole point of a sacrifice that would bring to an end the need for any further judgement, was exactly what was in the heart and mind of God, when he sent us Jesus. To them who understand, no explanation is needed. To them who do not, no explanation will ever do. ( Your brother in Christ ) P.S. The judgements that have come upon Israel the chosen people of God, are far more devastating then any other nation has ever suffered on earth, and there the apple of his eye. What people on earth, have ever suffered what Israel has, and still does. He has done this with Israel as an example for all the nations of the world to understand the mercy he has had on us. I pray that your eyes be opened that you might once again enter into the joy of the Lord, our salvation through Christ Jesus. Not just ours, but for as many as shall come.
    1. Richard Amiel McGough's Avatar
      Richard Amiel McGough -
      Quote Originally Posted by MELCHEZEDIC View Post
      Richard
      If we deal with the bandages, we won't get to the root of the problem. There is somthing not right, if we come into a position of judging God. Who are you old man to judge God. I believe we are dealing with a spirit of legalism. You know the legalist come up with all sorts of reason why they not able to trust God to be perfect in his judgements and merciful in his punishment. To me, when we go about picking out what it is we don't agree with, we are looking for a reason not to believe. It's this sort of thinking that blocks the way for them who would enter in by faith. You asked for pacifics, and being pacific means you want a absolute answer for that which we are to receive by faith. There are hundreds of reasons why what has been written doesn't seem right, it won't end with getting the answers you want on these pacific issues.
      I appreciate your comments, but I think there has been a misunderstanding. I am not "judging God." I am judging a book that people claim to be the "Word of God." There is a world of difference between those two things because there are many books that people claim are the "Word of God." Would you say I was "judging God" if I pointed out problems with the Koran, the Book of Mormon, or the Upanishads?

      So the first question to answer is: Why should someone believe the Bible is the Word of God?

      Quote Originally Posted by MELCHEZEDIC View Post
      This I can tell you, if I wanted to be merciful in a macro way, I would wreak so much havoc on one nation, and be so devasting to the point of eliminating there off spring, so that no other nation would ever be tempted to make that mistake again. Sodom and Gemorah are a good example of what I am saying. There will never ever be a single country or nation that will ever have to suffer what they did, just because of the utter devastation that took place. To me, that is being merciful. The same is true with an eternal hell fire. There are far fewer people who will ever have to suffer that judgement due to the eternal threat of an ever lasting torment. Is it better or worse, that you lose you soul immediately with no further punishment, as in the death penalty, or that you should hang in public for the rest of your life.
      Trust me, if the latter was what we gave as a penalty for taking a life, there would be alot less people killing each other. The unfortunate truth of who and what man is, is that as you can see, unless you make the punishment so unthinkable, we will continue to do what it is, that brings us into judgement. The whole point of a sacrifice that would bring to an end the need for any further judgement, was exactly what was in the heart and mind of God, when he sent us Jesus. To them who understand, no explanation is needed. To them who do not, no explanation will ever do. ( Your brother in Christ ) P.S. The judgements that have come upon Israel the chosen people of God, are far more devastating then any other nation has ever suffered on earth, and there the apple of his eye. What people on earth, have ever suffered what Israel has, and still does. He has done this with Israel as an example for all the nations of the world to understand the mercy he has had on us. I pray that your eyes be opened that you might once again enter into the joy of the Lord, our salvation through Christ Jesus. Not just ours, but for as many as shall come.
      Again, I have a problem with your premises. Billy Graham said that if God doesn't judge America he owes Sodom and Gomorrah an apology. My point is that the "deterrent" theory of hell doesn't work at all because it doesn't stop people from sinning. And besides, it was not created for that purpose anyway. The purpose of hell is to punish people forever and ever and ever without every achieving any positive end. That's why the doctrine is so perverse. It is an eternal evil with nothing good about it at all. The Reformers taught that its purpose is to show the "glory" of God's righteous judgment. But that's absurd in the extreme. There is no "justice" in the doctrine of hell. The punishment does not fit the crime. Indeed, the punishment is infinitely greater than any sin a person could commit in the short life we have on this earth.
    1. MELCHEZEDIC's Avatar
      MELCHEZEDIC -
      God love ya Richard, your missing the entire point of faith. It doesn't matter if the bible is true or not, it's weather or not your willing to believe it is. The same is true in the receiveing of a prophet, if by your faith in that prophet, ie Jesus Christ you receive a prophet in the name of THAT prophet, you shall receive a prophets reward. A prophets reward is to walk with God. The truth is, that the more absurd it is, the greater faith you must maintain to believe it is from God. This is what the trying and the testing of our faith is all about. No one can prove God exisit, none of us has ever seen Jesus Christ, yet we believe. It's never been about weather or not the word that was passed down to us, was actually from God, or that all of it or some part of it was changed, what mattered was regardless of what I heard or saw with these earthly eyes and ears, I was believed in my heart that God does exist, that his son died for me, and by my faith, bible or no bible I shall be saved. If all we ever received was some old wives tale that had been passed down for centurys about this man named Jesus and his claim to fame as the Son of God, and that some 2 thousand years ago he was crucified, and that his death brought salvation to me, my faith in just that and nothing more would save me by faith. Christ crucified is the end all to end all, the rest is unimportant.
    1. Richard Amiel McGough's Avatar
      Richard Amiel McGough -
      Quote Originally Posted by MELCHEZEDIC View Post
      God love ya Richard, your missing the entire point of faith. It doesn't matter if the bible is true or not, it's weather or not your willing to believe it is. The same is true in the receiveing of a prophet, if by your faith in that prophet, ie Jesus Christ you receive a prophet in the name of THAT prophet, you shall receive a prophets reward. A prophets reward is to walk with God. The truth is, that the more absurd it is, the greater faith you must maintain to believe it is from God. This is what the trying and the testing of our faith is all about. No one can prove God exisit, none of us has ever seen Jesus Christ, yet we believe. It's never been about weather or not the word that was passed down to us, was actually from God, or that all of it or some part of it was changed, what mattered was regardless of what I heard or saw with these earthly eyes and ears, I was believed in my heart that God does exist, that his son died for me, and by my faith, bible or no bible I shall be saved. If all we ever received was some old wives tale that had been passed down for centurys about this man named Jesus and his claim to fame as the Son of God, and that some 2 thousand years ago he was crucified, and that his death brought salvation to me, my faith in just that and nothing more would save me by faith. Christ crucified is the end all to end all, the rest is unimportant.
      Everything you said rests upon the presumption that the Bible is true. That's where you got the idea that I should believe in God and Jesus. Therefore, it makes absolutely no sense for you to say it "doesn't matter if the bible is true or not." Your comments are self-contradictory, and therefore meaningless in a most literal sense.

      The concept of "salvation by faith" makes no sense to me. Why would God insist that I believe an arbitrary set of unverifiable words spoken by strangers - mere hearsay - in order to be saved? And how am I supposed to distinguish the right set of words from the sea of false words that I'm told I must believe to be saved? Do you really think that makes sense? If so, please explain it to me.
    1. MELCHEZEDIC's Avatar
      MELCHEZEDIC -
      Richard
      I thought you were having a problem with just a few scriptures that didn't seem to fit your idea of who God was, or what he would or would not do. Apparently I was wrong. If it's the idea that believing God exist at all, or that Jesus Christ is his Son, then as our God has said, you have been given a reprobate mind. Which makes it rediculous for me or anyone else to continue a conversation with you. You have been set adrift into a endless sea of which there will be no shore for you to take refuge. Based on your premise, what knowledge do you deem as true?. What is the source of your knowledge, and what verification can you give anyone that your source of knowledge is true ?. If all your here to do, is to lead others into the same direction you have been set adrift in, then perhaps it would be better that your body be turned over to satan for it's destruction, so that your soul might be saved. I can do nothing more to help
      you to turn away from where you have allowed yourself to go, the rest is in Gods hands. I told you all I had to have, was that a wives tale be told to me, Faith cometh by hearing, hearing by the word of God.
      That wives tale could have been passed down through the oral tradition, as was the written word. The proof that what was transcribed by a nation of people who for the pass 2000 yrs, have had absolutely no reason to believe , and have held onto there belief that what was passed onto them was accurate and proven to be so by the discovery of the dead sea scrolls, another bunch of writting that eveidently means nothing to you, contradicts the so-called wisdom by which you present your unestablished or unverified assumptions and premise. A doble minded person is unstable in all of his ways. Reason makes no sense to you, If it did then you would beable to see that no matter what has ever been said or done, is based in part on some truth that existed prior to the discovery of it's existance. The very wheel you speak of verify's the truth that nothing has ever been that has not been before, thats why it's a circle. All I can do is pray for you Richard and hope that you repent of the doubt and unbelief that is in you. May God send you the help you need, to see the error of your ways, in Jesus. P.S. It was my hope, that your forum was for the spreading of Gods truth, and not mans. I see that is not the case, you as all other men would of course leave your children without any hope or will and testimony of your existance, because there is no love in you. If there were, you would see, that God is atleast as reliable, and caring as a man. God forgive you for your transgression, but there is no forgiveness for them who believe not.
    1. 2013lifeline's Avatar
      2013lifeline -
      Hello,

      I am not surprised that you are no longer a follower of the Bible,God is not in the Bible and never has been. Throughout your pages you testify to the fact that the Bible could not be mans 'invention' due to the incredible number sequences [which is true]and here lies the very trap that nearly all fall into; they think God [is] the Bible or at the very least try and become righteous [God like] by following and changing into how they interpret the words written within its pages [Gods Will] remembering of course that the Bible was given back to us by MEN, A king of the Earth! in 1666, 66 books by the 6th of Scotland.

      However the power has always been and still is the Holy Spirit, the very same Spirit at the beginning identified as the 'word' then made manifest in Christ Jesus and given as a gift at Pentecost (sequence of 50 Jubilee) the only path to Salvation is through Jesus who sends His Spirit to those who seek Him in prayer with heart,soul and mind.This is backed up by the fact that the doctrine of Hell given by scripture was changed along with many other words and 'scripture translations/teachings' by men when the 'church' was reastablished, men lead men blind lead blind! Jesus was same yesterday, today and tomorow and is the only way,truth and life through the power of the regeneration of the Holy Spirit,the enemy (the opposer) is within you! along with Heaven (Heaven is within) the change required is from the inside/out and this my friend is a Spiritual change, thought intercessions are key to this understanding.

      Consider please, men in the Bible were led by the HOLY GHOST has God ever changed this? or have men changed this.
      Jesus gives LIFE the Bible does not, the Bible is written testimonies by people being led by Spirit, the Bible is of course a Metaphysical book.
      John5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me!. And ye will not come to me?, that ye might have life!

      The Holy Spirit in essence is love, love has been systamatically removed by the [X] false Beast systems on Earth where the opposer Angel is strongest within men who follow darkness.Have you ever noticed how the OT God seems to be 'less friendlier!' than the NT God? God is love and love is in all things and people around in the OT times did not have the grace we have offered today of Jesus the living Word of God (Holy Spirit) therefore people who had fair warning but did not comply to Gods Will of the greater love were removed from this Temporal Creation Moment, that is God and whilst our thinking to this will be limited, His [thinking] will not be so.Please know Jesus is the Masterbuilder (cornerstone) of each house (you!) not the Bible, and its Jesus the cornerstone that has been removed by men from all things.Lest I call like a thief in the night (at your house/you) and you be asleep! (Spiritually NOT physically)Awaken, awaken your Spirit.

      Now finally onto prayers being answered, some prayers are answered each and every day but please know the power is in the Spirit of Jesus (living word)and not the Bible.
      If you would like some visual proof then you may choose? to view on Youtube street healing by Tom Fischer or maybe some work in Africa being done right now by Heidi Baker, or if you like visit my page on Youtube search '2013lifeline',I have been led by Jesus in Spirit since 2011 when I realised that He is the very same Spirit (the word) from the beginning.My gift given is truth and understanding, this is best described as my prayers being answered each night by the intercession of Jesus through the Holy Spirit. Matthew 10:27 'What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops'

      I understand this may not be a perfect answer to your 3 reasons given, I have written only so you may look differently at your own reasons given.

      I bare witness to and receive Messages from the Holy Spirit,

      Thank you, 2013lifeline.
    1. Richard Amiel McGough's Avatar
      Richard Amiel McGough -
      Quote Originally Posted by 2013lifeline View Post
      Hello,

      I am not surprised that you are no longer a follower of the Bible,God is not in the Bible and never has been. Throughout your pages you testify to the fact that the Bible could not be mans 'invention' due to the incredible number sequences [which is true]and here lies the very trap that nearly all fall into; they think God [is] the Bible or at the very least try and become righteous [God like] by following and changing into how they interpret the words written within its pages [Gods Will] remembering of course that the Bible was given back to us by MEN, A king of the Earth! in 1666, 66 books by the 6th of Scotland.
      Hey there,

      Your comments seem incoherent to me. Everything you wrote is based on the Bible that you reject as being of men. Your implicit suggestion that the 66 book canon is somehow related to the number of the beast (666) would mean that the book is entirely untrustworthy. Why then do you constantly appeal to what it says as if it were authoritative?

      And as for the number 666 - it is not an "evil" number. It has two sides like any number. It appears prominently in the alphanumeric structure of Genesis 1:1 an it is the numerical value of many words relating to holiness such as "The Holy Ark" (Arun HaQadosh) = 666. Here is a link to my article on 666 written when I was a Christian.

      Quote Originally Posted by 2013lifeline View Post
      However the power has always been and still is the Holy Spirit, the very same Spirit at the beginning identified as the 'word' then made manifest in Christ Jesus and given as a gift at Pentecost (sequence of 50 Jubilee) the only path to Salvation is through Jesus who sends His Spirit to those who seek Him in prayer with heart,soul and mind.This is backed up by the fact that the doctrine of Hell given by scripture was changed along with many other words and 'scripture translations/teachings' by men when the 'church' was reastablished, men lead men blind lead blind! Jesus was same yesterday, today and tomorow and is the only way,truth and life through the power of the regeneration of the Holy Spirit,the enemy (the opposer) is within you! along with Heaven (Heaven is within) the change required is from the inside/out and this my friend is a Spiritual change, thought intercessions are key to this understanding.

      Consider please, men in the Bible were led by the HOLY GHOST has God ever changed this? or have men changed this.
      Jesus gives LIFE the Bible does not, the Bible is written testimonies by people being led by Spirit, the Bible is of course a Metaphysical book.
      John5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me!. And ye will not come to me?, that ye might have life!
      All your assertions are based on the Bible, which you say was given by blind men. I don't understand why you think you are free to pick and choose which parts are "authoritative" and which are not.

      Quote Originally Posted by 2013lifeline View Post
      The Holy Spirit in essence is love, love has been systamatically removed by the [X] false Beast systems on Earth where the opposer Angel is strongest within men who follow darkness.Have you ever noticed how the OT God seems to be 'less friendlier!' than the NT God? God is love and love is in all things and people around in the OT times did not have the grace we have offered today of Jesus the living Word of God (Holy Spirit) therefore people who had fair warning but did not comply to Gods Will of the greater love were removed from this Temporal Creation Moment, that is God and whilst our thinking to this will be limited, His [thinking] will not be so.Please know Jesus is the Masterbuilder (cornerstone) of each house (you!) not the Bible, and its Jesus the cornerstone that has been removed by men from all things.Lest I call like a thief in the night (at your house/you) and you be asleep! (Spiritually NOT physically)Awaken, awaken your Spirit.
      Again, everything you write is based on the presumption that the Bible is true. You position seems entirely confused.

      Quote Originally Posted by 2013lifeline View Post
      Now finally onto prayers being answered, some prayers are answered each and every day but please know the power is in the Spirit of Jesus (living word)and not the Bible.
      If you would like some visual proof then you may choose? to view on Youtube street healing by Tom Fischer or maybe some work in Africa being done right now by Heidi Baker, or if you like visit my page on Youtube search '2013lifeline',I have been led by Jesus in Spirit since 2011 when I realised that He is the very same Spirit (the word) from the beginning.My gift given is truth and understanding, this is best described as my prayers being answered each night by the intercession of Jesus through the Holy Spirit. Matthew 10:27 'What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops'

      I understand this may not be a perfect answer to your 3 reasons given, I have written only so you may look differently at your own reasons given.

      I bare witness to and receive Messages from the Holy Spirit,

      Thank you, 2013lifeline.
      I looked at your YouTube channel and noted that you are appear to be a typical doomsday prophet. You think you had a prophetic dream about the "imminent rapture" and big earthquakes in California. You will be proven wrong like every other doomsday prophet in whose steps you follow. I can't imagine how folks continue in such deception. Doomsday prophets have a perfect 2000 years record of 100% error! Why would you think you are any different? Will you repent when you are proven wrong?
    1. Unregistered's Avatar
      Unregistered -
      Hi Richard,
      Maybe you've answered this question elsewhere; if so, please point me toward it. If not here is my question: what is your explanation for the information you presented as the supernatural layout of the Bible in your book if you no longer believe it to be God's word? Thanks for your time. L.
    1. Richard Amiel McGough's Avatar
      Richard Amiel McGough -
      Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
      Hi Richard,
      Maybe you've answered this question elsewhere; if so, please point me toward it. If not here is my question: what is your explanation for the information you presented as the supernatural layout of the Bible in your book if you no longer believe it to be God's word? Thanks for your time. L.
      Hey there L.,

      That's a great question! I've spent a lot of time trying to figure it out. As far as I know, all the evidence for the Bible Wheel remains as solid as ever. But I can't accept the Bible as the "Word of God" in any sense understood by Christians and I don't even believe in the God it describes. So I am mystified. I found a partial solution that I explained on my old blog in an article called An Evolutionary Explanation of the Bible Wheel. It's a pretty good explanation for how the Canon Wheel could have been formed through a process of scribal selection. But that doesn't work for the detailed correlations between the books on each Spoke or the unique links between the Alphabetic Verses and the content of the corresponding Spokes. So I remain mystified.

      But I'm not disturbed by this mystery. Life is full of things we can't explain, and there's no question that the religions based on the Bible which threaten horrible consequences for unbelief are false. So I'm at peace with everything. But still, I am mystified. Another approach I tried was along the lines of Jungian psychology. The Bible Wheel has many archetypal elements and it is very similar to the mandalas that spontaneously appear in dreams and visions when folks complete the process of individuation. This made me wonder if the Bible Wheel might be analogous to a dream mandala produced by the planetary mind. I discussed this an article called The Bible Wheel as a Cosmic Mandala of Archetypal Wholeness. But I don't find that particularly satisfying because it's too speculative and has a bit too much "woo-woo" in it. So I remain mystified.

      If you have any ideas that might solve this mystery, please share them.

      Richard
    1. Unregistered's Avatar
      Unregistered -
      When you die, What do think will happen?
    1. Unregistered's Avatar
      Unregistered -
      Thanks for your speedy and very honest response. I haven't finished the book yet (just started it yesterday) but if I have anything semi-intelligent to say upon completion, I'll let you know :-)
    1. Richard Amiel McGough's Avatar
      Richard Amiel McGough -
      Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
      When you die, What do think will happen?
      I don't know what will happen, but I can tell you what won't happen.

      I won't stand before Allah, Yahweh, or Zeus to account for why I didn't believe in them!

      I have no fear of any kind when it comes to what happens after death. If there is any kind of judgment, it will be just so there is nothing fear.

      The Christian dogma teaches that God is fundamentally unjust, and that's why people fear being judged by him.

      Every person dies. Some who died were worse than me. Some better. The same fate awaits all.
    1. Richard Amiel McGough's Avatar
      Richard Amiel McGough -
      Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
      Thanks for your speedy and very honest response. I haven't finished the book yet (just started it yesterday) but if I have anything semi-intelligent to say upon completion, I'll let you know :-)
      Great! And don't be shy if you have any questions, comments, or criticisms.
    1. Richard Amiel McGough's Avatar
      Richard Amiel McGough -
      Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
      Your reasons for rejecting the biblical God are completely absurd. If there is evidence of mathematical design in the bible that could not have been produced by man, then THAT supports the claims of the bible ITSELF that it was inspired by God REGARDLESS of your personal objections against his character portrayed therein. In other words, you can call the biblical God a tyrant until you're blue in the face. But don't lie to yourself and act like he doesn't exist or that biblical numerics doesn't confirm the clear assertions of the open text.

      As far as the "errors" in the bible, you do realize that virtually NONE of the beloved scientific theories are set in stone, right? So when you find an area of disagreement between the PROVEN bible and modern, fallible science that is always subject to change, which one do you think is most likely to win out in the end? I'll let you figure it out.

      Btw, this is the user Gambini. I was just too lazy to sign in because I'm using my smartphone right now
      Hey there Gambini,

      It is good to be on a "first name basis."

      I'm really glad you feel free to speak you mind! That's the way I like it.

      I don't see any "absurdity" in my rejection of Yahweh. You will have to point it out to me (please be very specific). I do not reject Yahweh merely because he is a "tyrant" but for many reasons that cumulatively imply that if he existed, he wouldn't have the intelligence to design the Bible Wheel or the Holographs. It's a "Catch 22" if you know what I mean. The kind of intelligence implied by the design of Genesis 1:1 is of an entirely different order than that which governs the behavior of Yahweh recorded in the Bible. Any being with sufficient intelligence to appreciate the design of the Bible will necessarily reject its description of God. Fascinating paradox, isn't it?

      Now as for your charge that I am "lying to myself" - that's simply not true. I am very open and honest about why I came to these conclusions and the proof is my willingness to publicly receive any and all criticism. I have nothing to hide. It is true that the Bible Wheel is profoundly integrated with the message of the plain text. I have always been especially impressed with Spoke 22 where the theme of Consummation is so wonderfully expressed in perfect harmony with its position as the last Spoke that "closes the circle." The whole Wheel is like this. It is numinous and profound and tightly integrated with the whole flow of the Biblical story from Genesis to Revelation. But I can't believe the story in the sense that it is believed by Christians. I don't believe that people are sinners in need of salvation. I don't believe that the true God commanded the murder of every man, woman, and child of the Midianites except for 32,000 sexy virgins who were then distributed to the very soldiers who slaughtered every person they ever loved. It is simply impossible to believe such disgusting crap. So what's your solution? If you have any suggestions, I hope you know that my ears are open. But please keep one thing in mind - I'm not interested in inventing my own interpretation and I won't accept any attempts to whitewash the bullshit. Any answer must be worthy of God.

      As for science and the errors in the Bible - the errors I am talking about will not be fixed by any advancement of science. For example, we are not going to find out that the earth is really flat and that there is a solid dome holding up the waters above. And we are not going to discover that the earth is really 6,000 years old.

      I really appreciate your comments, and hope this conversation will continue.

      All the very best,

      Richard
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