It’s fascinating to be a former Christian with a blog that records my transition from believer to freethinker. I get a constant stream of comments that reveal how dogmatic religions tend to corrupt the minds and morals of believers. Such messages consistently confirm the validity of my choice to quit Christianity. I recently received a rather extreme example from one Norm Robichaud in response to my post Answers for Amber on Why I Quit Christianity:
First, to all Christians who read this: PRAY FOR MR. McGOUGH and his family! (I say we gang up on him)
Okay, now my rant.
I’m honestly not sure why I’m even bothering. I guess my suspicions have been confirmed and I have to say, I’m a little heartbroken. I’m not going to bother with logical arguments because that’s what got you into this mess in the first place. You need to drop logic and ‘smart-ness” and go direct with your heart rent open.
You can be pretty sure you are talking to a religious fundamentalist if they begin their argument with a rejection of “logic” and “smart-ness”. How is anyone supposed to discern between truth and falsehood without intelligence and rationality? Would they say the same thing to a Muslim or Mormon? Would they accept the burning in the bosom as sufficient “evidence” to justify a belief in Mormonism? Of course not. This is an obvious double standard, one of the primary signs of delusional thinking as described in detail in my article The Art of Rationalization: A Case Study of Christian Apologist Rich Deem. This is not only a psychological disorder: the chronic attempt to believe things that just aren’t true can lead to physical brain damage.
Norm’s comment continues:
The moment I came across your Bible-wheel – I immediately thought to myself, this is sort of similar to Kaballah in that it makes a geometric shape in respect to faith in God then wraps it in a bunch of logic. But I didn’t want to judge it, I really wanted to get my head around the thing as a possible study tool. I mean, it really does look cool.
Your fall from grace has saved me hours of investigating your wheel to confirm it is what it says it is or to expose it as more mystical-math garbage. Have you heard of Freemasonry? They’re into that stuff too. It’s a shame that not only are you lost, but that so many people have been misled by your Bible-wheel. I think that you, yourself were misled by your own invention. When the invention you created couldn’t stand up, you abandoned God because your ego just wouldn’t allow you to be wrong. No, everything else was wrong, not you.
Now we witness the fruit of Norm’s rejection of logic. My “fall from grace” has nothing to do with the truth or falsehood of the Bible Wheel. His assertion that it means he does not need to investigate its validity on its own merits is a textbook example of the genetic fallacy: the truth of a proposition does not depend on who said it or what they believe. It is also inconsistent because when I was a Christian, I asserted that the Bible Wheel proved the Bible was God’s Word, so by his logic he would have to reject the Bible along with the Bible Wheel. His comments are entirely inconsistent and illogical. He wrote nothing that would suggest he has the slightest interest in truth. This exemplifies the great irony of fundamentalist Christianity. Their central dogma says that Christ is the truth and yet the most fervent believers seem to utterly despise the truth.
Norm also commits the fallacy of association. The fact that the Freemasons are into things that might superficially appear similar to the Bible Wheel says nothing about its validity. The Freemasons are also into the Bible. Does that mean the Bible should be rejected? Norm gave no logical or evidential reason for his rejection of the Bible Wheel. He appears to be utterly ignorant of what it is and the evidence for it. His assertion that I have “misled” myself and others is just that – a mere assertion with no evidence of any kind supporting it. Again, he displays behavior typical of a arrogant, ignorant, deluded fundamentalist who explicitly rejects logical argumentation.
Norm then revealed the corrupt nature of his morals when he slandered me as quitting Christianity because my “ego” would not “allow” me to be wrong. He has no way to know my motivation. Or what, is he a psychic psychologist? He presented no evidence of any kind. And worse, his assertion is blatantly absurd since I have explained the many compelling reasons for my choice and no Christian has been able to provide any rational response. On the contrary, Christians have proven time and time again that there is no rational defense by their grossly insane and twisted attempts to defend the Bible, as seen, for example, in my article 2000 Reasons to Believe Dr. Hugh Ross Might Not Be Entirely Credible. Norm’s attack is nothing but mindless calumny so typical of the deluded, small-minded religious fundamentalists. Truly pathetic.
Finally, there is a profound irony in his comment that I rejected Christianity because the Bible Wheel “couldn’t stand up.” Nothing could be more absurd. The reality is the precise opposite. The evidence for the Bible Wheel stands even though I reject the Bible! It remains as the strongest evidence for Christianity that I know of. It is a thousand times more convincing than the ludicrous arguments put forth by the “apologists” who pervert truth in service of their dogmas. I have written about this many times. I consider it a great mystery. For example, shortly after quitting Christianity I wrote that the “evidence of some sort of ‘supernatural design’ seems as solid and incontrovertible to me now as it did when I was a Christian. And as far as I know, I am looking at the Bible Wheel with the same critical eye by which I judged the Bible itself to be full of errors, contradictions, logical absurdities, and moral abominations attributed to God. And as yet, not one person has ever – after years of debate on internet forums with fierce opponents – found anything like a systematic error or fundamental flaw in the evidence I have presented. But what does it all mean? That’s the mystery …” So once again, we see that Norm’s comments are as ignorant as they are absurd, and they are as rude as I have come to expect from religious fundamentalists. I did not quit Christianity because the Bible Wheel could not stand. On the contrary, the Bible Wheel consistently strengthened my faith. If anything contributed to my rejection of Christianity, it was the utterly mindless idiocy of internet Christians who rejected logic and facts and chose rather to insult and spew out moronic mockery when confronted with things they could not understand. One thing I learned after fifteen years of trying to reason with Christians is that dogmatic religion tends to corrupt the minds and morals of believers. Just look at his next comment:
How much money have you sucked out of gullible Christians who love God so much that they put money into what they thought was a valuable tool. How many wasted hours will they spend with your stupid wheel before they realize it does nothing, that there is no replacement for God’s Word?
Norm continues to reveal the profound corruption of his heart and mind. The Bible Wheel is not and never was intended as a “replacement for God’s Word”. That doesn’t even make any sense because the Bible Wheel is nothing but a simple representation of the traditional Protestant canon. His comment reveals his ignorance. He simply does not know what he is talking about and yet he feels free to spew out insults. It is particularly enlightening that his comment begins and ends with pious words – a call for prayer and a “God bless” – because in the middle he stuffs his insults and slander and ignorance. Such is the heart corrupted by dogmatic religion. And the great irony, of course, is that religious folks believe that there could be no morality without God! Ha! That is the precise opposite of the truth. Religion tends to corrupt the mind and morals of believers.
Who are you to push people (Christians, Jews, Muslims etc.) away from their faith? If you want to piss yours down the toilet, that’s a heart-breaker, but there’s no convincing you or anyone else who is without a genuine desire to love God back.
Now this is a curious position. Norm seems to think that any “faith” is better than none. The Muslim faith says that “God does not beget and is not begotten.” It directly contradicts that most fundamental dogma of Christianity. But Norm seems to think its better to believe a lie in the name of “faith” than to reject all “faiths” that are not supported by evidence and truth. Again, we see how religion corrupts the minds of the believers.
Inwardly, get off your high-horse (#4) and stop doing what the devil did in the Garden of Eden. Let’s review:
1. Cast doubt on God’s Word – “Did God really say…?”
2. Lie – “You won’t surely die…”
3. Offer Knowledge – “For you will know good and evil…”
4. Self-ascension/godhood – “and be like God.”
In your own way, you’ve done all four! Wake up! We love you. The door’s about to close. Remember, Peter was invited back and luckily he made the right choice, you can do the same. Repent. Take down the site.
That is one of the most entertaining delusions of Christianity. First, Norm begins with the assumption that the Bible is “God’s Word” even though there is no evidence supporting that idea. Indeed, the Bible does not even define which books belong in it so the idea of “the Bible” is itself unbiblical! And which Bible is supposed to be “God’s Word”? The one with or without the Apocrypha? The one with or without 1 John 5:7 or the long ending of Mark? The whole concept of a “Bible” is unbiblical and ill defined. But this is only the beginning of the absurdities of his comment. He is wrong on all four points:
- “God’s Word” is not a well-defined concept and the idea of calling any many made book “God’s Word” is unbiblical.
- According to Genesis, God said “for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” This did not happen. It was God who lied, not the serpent. Indeed, God did not tell Adam that he would continue to live for nearly a thousand years, and that all his descendants would suffer grievously (some for eternity) if he ate of the fruit. Not only did God lie, but he also did not tell him the truth of the consequences of eating the
- Wrong again. The offer of knowledge was real. Genesis quotes God as saying “Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.”
- Wrong again. Their eyes were opened, exactly as the serpent promised. It was the serpent who told the truth, and God who lied.
Of course, the Garden story is nothing but pagan style mythology. There never was an Adam and Eve. The earth is not 6000 years old. There was no flood that caused a mass extinction of all land animals in recent history. And the really curious fact is that there is almost no mention of any of the stories from Genesis chapters 2 through 11 anywhere in the Old Testament. I discuss this in my article Where’s Adam? The Mystery of the Missing Mythological Chapters of Genesis.
It would be wonderful if Norm would choose to engage me with logic and facts. It would give me an opportunity to correct his many misconceptions. But somehow I don’t expect that to happen. Oh well. I invite others to comment.