John 1:1-2,
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος. οὗτος ἦν ἐν ἀρχῇ πρὸς τὸν θεόν.
https://www.greekbible.com/john/1
πρὸς
with an accusative, used of the place to which anything tends,
to, unto, towards
so "with" seems to be corrupt translation
all christian translations do have "with"
https://biblehub.com/john/1-1.htm
πρὸς even never occurs in NT with the meaning of "with"
https://biblehub.com/greek/4314.htm
But Strong's straightens it out with:
"John’s Gospel opens and closes key theological curtains with πρός. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1). The phrase “with God” conveys more than mere vicinity; it signals intimate, personal communion. The preposition reappears in John 1:2, then in 17:11-13 where the Son prays of returning “to” (πρός) the Father, framing redemption inside eternal fellowship. Thus πρός stands at the heart of Trinitarian doctrine: the Son is forever oriented toward the Father, and through Him believers are likewise brought “to the Father” (John 14:6)."
John 17:11-13,
καὶ οὐκέτι εἰμὶ ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, καὶ αὐτοὶ ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ εἰσίν, κἀγὼ
πρὸς σὲ ἔρχομαι. Πάτερ ἅγιε, τήρησον αὐτοὺς ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί σου ᾧ δέδωκάς μοι, ἵνα ὦσιν ἓν καθὼς ἡμεῖς. ὅτε ἤμην μετ' αὐτῶν ἐγὼ ἐτήρουν αὐτοὺς ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί σου ᾧ δέδωκάς μοι, καὶ ἐφύλαξα, καὶ οὐδεὶς ἐξ αὐτῶν ἀπώλετο εἰ μὴ ὁ υἱὸς τῆς ἀπωλείας, ἵνα ἡ γραφὴ πληρωθῇ. νῦν δὲ
πρὸς σὲ ἔρχομαι, καὶ ταῦτα λαλῶ ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ ἵνα ἔχωσιν τὴν χαρὰν τὴν ἐμὴν πεπληρωμένην ἐν ἑαυτοῖς
John 14:6,
λέγει αὐτῷ [ὁ] Ἰησοῦς, Ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ ὁδὸς καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια καὶ ἡ ζωή· οὐδεὶς ἔρχεται
πρὸς τὸν πατέρα εἰ μὴ δι' ἐμοῦ.
Translation with "with" seems to go back on Vulgata:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... on=VULGATE
In principio erat Verbum, et Verbum erat apud Deum, et Deus erat Verbum. Hoc erat in principio apud Deum.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/apud
Latin apud (“at, by, in the presence of, in the writings of”)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulgate
The Vulgate is a late-4th-century Latin translation of the Bible. It is largely the work of Saint Jerome who, in 382, had been commissioned by Pope Damasus I to revise the Vetus Latina Gospels used by the Roman Church.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetus_Latina
Ask Grok:
https://x.com/i/grok?conversation=1997945231061184665
Do you know how Vetus Latina translated πρὸς in John 1:1-2?
viewtopic.php?p=257#p257
Yes, based on historical textual analysis of early Latin Bible translations, the Vetus Latina (the pre-Vulgate Old Latin versions from the 2nd–4th centuries) rendered the Greek preposition πρὸς (pros) in John 1:1–2 with apud, meaning "at," "by," or "in the presence of" (conveying a sense of close relation or proximity rather than simple accompaniment). This is evidenced in surviving fragments and is directly reflected in Jerome's late-4th-century Vulgate revision of the Vetus Latina Gospels, which uses the same phrasing: "In principio erat Verbum, et Verbum erat apud Deum, et Deus erat Verbum. Hoc erat in principio apud Deum" (John 1:1–2).This choice aligns with the Greek πρὸς τὸν θεόν's nuance of intimate relation or "facing toward" God, avoiding a stricter "with" (which would more typically use cum or secum). The forum post you linked (from biblewheel.com) echoes this point in a discussion on translation biases, noting that apud influenced later renderings and arguing against "with" as a potentially corrupt English gloss for the original intent. For deeper manuscript comparisons, resources like the Vetus Latina Database (via the Universität Freiburg) confirm apud in key witnesses such as Codex Vercellensis (iv) and Codex Sangermanensis (ix).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Gospel
"The Last Gospel" is the name given to the prologue of the Gospel of John (John 1:1–14)[1] when read as part of the concluding rites in the Tridentine and Ordinariate forms of the Mass in the Catholic Church
