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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    What I'm saying is that both Ezekiel's Wheels, and the Bible Wheel are images of the Bible....not that Ezekiel's Wheels are an image of the Bible Wheel.
    Thank you for the correction!

    I'm so used to repeat to myself that the Wheels of Ezekiel's Vision are an image of the Bible Wheel that I said it here, when in fact your emphasis on this thread is placed in a slightly different point. And I obviously agree with you. Ezekiel's Wheels and the Bible Wheel are both an image of the Bible. And one is an image of the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    This study of Ezekiel's Wheels is not one for those who do not understand the complexities of the design of the Bible. There is much going on here that is only brought to light when the entire picture of God's Word is viewed.
    Sure, but I injected the figure of the skeptic person into the discussion to encourage us to dig deeper. I like your insight on the threefold aspect of the vision (Cherubim-Wheels-Spirit) but it hasn't rung any big bells yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Once again, I see this vision of Ezekiel as a "witness" to the threefold unity of God, which the "Bible Wheel" also happens to display, and both are contained in the Bible which is God's Word.
    Very nice, Rose! That's it in a nutshell. God's Trinitarian nature is reflected in the Crown of His Creation, Humankind, and also in His Written Word. This in turn is reflected in the triunity of God's Chariot (Cherubim and Wheels united by the same Spirit) and in the Three Cycles of the Bible Wheel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    To me it seems just the opposite, throughout the whole vision of Ezekiel the parts are decribed so that the whole may be understood as a unit. Never are the wheels "Ophan" described in action alone, but always as part of the whole, and it seems the wheels "Ophanim" are only called "Galgal" when they are part of the whole complex.

    God Bless

    Rose
    Hey, you seem to agree with me that the wheels are the ones called Galgal. And since the wheels are an integral part of the One Whole, the denomination Galgal can be extended to the entire Cherubim-Wheels-Spirit complex. That is a case of metonymy (the use of the name of one object or concept for that of another to which it is related or of which it is a part, as "scepter" for "sovereignty.")

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    I wonder why the different terms: Ophanim and Gilgal.

    Gilgal numerical sum is 66 by the way, as the number of books in the bible.
    The different terms seem to emphasize different aspects. Ophanim reminds of the Face of God, and Galgal of the idea of rolling. I think you have read it before, but you can check http://www.biblewheel.com/Wheel/Ezekiel_Wheels.asp.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    If I'm not mistaken the cherubs were heading south with the man's face in front. Luke's gospel went south to Egypt right? John went north to Ephesus, Mark to west Rome and Matthew Judea east.
    They were heading south because Ezekiel says that the whirlwind came from the north, but nowhere does it say that the man's face was in front, though it makes sense because it was the first face mentioned.

    Why do you say that Luke's Gospel went "to Egypt"?

    I agree with the other primary destinations but considering that Ezekiel was in Babylon I don't see how Matthew/Judea could be considered "east".

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    They were heading south because Ezekiel says that the whirlwind came from the north, but nowhere does it say that the man's face was in front, though it makes sense because it was the first face mentioned.

    Why do you say that Luke's Gospel went "to Egypt"?

    I agree with the other primary destinations but considering that Ezekiel was in Babylon I don't see how Matthew/Judea could be considered "east".
    Ezekiel 1
    10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man , and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Thank you for the correction!

    I'm so used to repeat to myself that the Wheels of Ezekiel's Vision are an image of the Bible Wheel that I said it here, when in fact your emphasis on this thread is placed in a slightly different point. And I obviously agree with you. Ezekiel's Wheels and the Bible Wheel are both an image of the Bible. And one is an image of the other.
    Of course, We do have the unmistakable connection of the "Galgal".

    Bible Wheel = Galgal = 66 books
    O Wheel = Galgal = 66



    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Sure, but I injected the figure of the skeptic person into the discussion to encourage us to dig deeper. I like your insight on the threefold aspect of the vision (Cherubim-Wheels-Spirit) but it hasn't rung any big bells yet.



    Very nice, Rose! That's it in a nutshell. God's Trinitarian nature is reflected in the Crown of His Creation, Humankind, and also in His Written Word. This in turn is reflected in the triunity of God's Chariot (Cherubim and Wheels united by the same Spirit) and in the Three Cycles of the Bible Wheel.



    Hey, you seem to agree with me that the wheels are the ones called Galgal. And since the wheels are an integral part of the One Whole, the denomination Galgal can be extended to the entire Cherubim-Wheels-Spirit complex. That is a case of metonymy (the use of the name of one object or concept for that of another to which it is related or of which it is a part, as "scepter" for "sovereignty.")
    I have this intense intuition that there is much more going on than just the "threefoldness" of this vision. It's like this is just the tip of the jewel that draws us to look deeper.

    There are so many top level symbols used in this vision that tie in with, and to the rest of Scripture.

    This vision of Ezekiel, that has mystified and intrigued people for millennia, I feel is now about to unfold into a symbolic matrix.

    God Bless

    Rose
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  6. #16
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    The four faces and the four directions

    Ezekiel 1
    10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man , and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.

    If we assume that the first face that is mentioned it the one heading the group, we can say that the face of a man faced the south, because the whirlwind that signaled God's Chariot came from the north:
    Eze 1:4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.
    The lion and the ox were on the right and left sides respectively. We conclude then that he eagle was facing north.

    We don't exactly know what Ezekiel meant by "right" and "left" sides. Did he mean his right side? Or the cherub's right side? If we assume that he meant his own side, we come up with exactly the same correlation of the four directions with the four faces that is held in the Jewish tradition of the arrangement of Israel's fourfold camp in the wilderness.




    But what do you mean by the Gospel of Luke "going to Egypt?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Of course, We do have the unmistakable connection of the "Galgal".

    Bible Wheel = Galgal = 66 books
    O Wheel = Galgal = 66
    But there's more! The ordinal value of the word Ophanim (Wheels) is also 66!

    Ophanim = 66 = Galgal

    This reinforces the concept that Galgal is the collective name of the wheels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    I have this intense intuition that there is much more going on than just the "threefoldness" of this vision. It's like this is just the tip of the jewel that draws us to look deeper.
    No doubt about that! It is a wonder. That's why I feel there could be more to the link between the Three Cycles and the Cherubim-Wheels-Spirit complex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    There are so many top level symbols used in this vision that tie in with, and to the rest of Scripture.

    This vision of Ezekiel, that has mystified and intrigued people for millennia, I feel is now about to unfold into a symbolic matrix.

    God Bless

    Rose
    Oh yes! Although this vision has always intrigued people, there has always been sound intepretations of this vision. It has several levels of understanding. And one of the oldest is that it this vision is a panoramic view of the Word of God! Now that we have the integration of the whole - the Bible Wheel - we can dig deeper into Ezekiel's Wheels.

    God Bless

    Victor

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    But there's more! The ordinal value of the word Ophanim (Wheels) is also 66!

    Ophanim = 66 = Galgal
    That looks impossible. Mem and Nun alone add up to 90.

  9. #19
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    HaOphanim = 66 = Galgal

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    That looks impossible. Mem and Nun alone add up to 90.
    That's because there is more than one kind of Gematria. The "default" is the standard form. But there are more, as you can read in the Introduction to Gematria.

    The system that yields the value 66 is the ordinal one. Under this gematria, the value of each letter is the position it occupies in the Alphabet.

    And I was mistaken, it is not exactly Ophanim, but HaOphanim, "the wheels", that weights 66. So:

    HaOphanim = Hey + Aleph + Vav + Pey + Nun + Yod + Mem = 5 + 1 + 6 + 17 + 14 + 10 + 40 = 66

    The Wheels (ord) = 66 = Galgal (std)

    And this coheres with the understanding that Galgal is the collective name of the Wheels. As the New Jerusalem Bible translates:
    Eze 10:13 In my hearing, these wheels were called 'galgal'.
    Galgal is simply transliterated.

  10. #20
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    So what you mean by the Gospel of Luke going to Egypt?

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