The Mark of the Beast 666 / 616

[gregoryfl]

Hi,

I used End of the World and End of Ages to mean the same thing. You have mistaken, End of the World does not mean the Earth is gone forever or breaks into pieces like asteroids; it is never stated in the Bible. A New Heaven and a New Earth as stated in Revelation after the Rapture is established on the Earth. In other words, life on Earth will be transformed. The Lord's prayer also mention that the Kingdom of God will be on Earth, "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven".

Therefore, after the End of the World or End of the Ages, Life on Earth will be renewed. The old human way of life will ceased to exist and a new Golden Age of God-loving people will be established i.e. a New Heaven and a New Earth.

God Bless.

Cheow,

So then, you would say that the end of the world would be somewhat the same as the end of the world in Noah's day, where the heavens and earth then were ended by water. The literal heaven and earth still stayed, but the water canopy in the heavens came down and thus changed the heavens, and all ungodliness was done away with on the earth, thus changing the earth. Does this sound about right?

So then, are you looking for a future where a literal fire burns up what is on the earth, and what is in the heavens, that renews it? Or do you see anyway that the fire could be figurative, or spiritual?

Thanks brother,

Ron

[CWH]

Hi greg,

There is no mention of another Great Flood in the Bible that caused the end of the world during the End of Ages nor will there be another Great Flood as mentioned in Genesis 9:11, the Lord said, "I promise that never again will all living beings be destroyed by a flood, never again will a flood destroy the earth".

As mentioned in Revelation 8 to 16, there are a multitude of calamities such as brimstones, hail, plagues, earthquakes, falling star, burning of trees, fiery hugh mountain thrown into the sea, fierce heat of the sun etc. but the final blow that caused the end of the Ages are the battle at Amageddon and the fall of Babylon (Chapter 19).

While studying the Bible, I always use literal interpretations first before using figurative interpretations.
Why use figuratives when I can explain many of these calamities literally? Falling star is a collision of Earth with a asteroid or meteor, mountain falling into the sea is a hugh mountain in Azores which is predicted by scientists to fall into the Atlantic Ocean caused by a major volcanic eruption. The fall resulted in a gigantic tsunami affecting the US. Is it too much for the imaginations that we cannot read it literally?.... or.... is it impossible for God to create such calamities? I know Preterists will tell me that all these are figuratives and they have been fulfilled but that is absolutely not the Futurist's view.

God Bless.

[gregoryfl]

Thanks for getting back to me Cheow. I too agree that there is to be no more flood such as occurred in Noah's day.

My question though is that in keeping with the literal interpretation of scripture, do you see the entire earth being engulfed in a fire that burns up the heavens and the earth in the future in such a way that destroys all wickedness on earth but leaves the earth intact for future habitation?

I know you spoke of various things occurring in the book of Revelation, but I am referring to what Peter wrote in his second letter. Do you see that fire as a literal one that does what I described above to the entire earth?

Ron

[CWH]

Hi, greg,

I rely more on the book of Revelation in interpreting the End of the World (Age) rather than 2 Peter because this is what the Book of Revelation is intended for.

According to Revelation, I don't see the whole Earth engulfed in fire but only on certain parts of the Earth. I do see a new big Holy City rebuilt in the New Heaven and a New Earth. It is a very big enclosed city in size which I know some Christians doubted literally because it is beyond their human imagination but "Is anything too hard for the Lord?"(Genesis 18:14).

Wickedness on the whole is destroyed but as mentioned in Revelation 21: 27 "But nothing impure will enter the city nor anyone who does shameful things or tell lies. Only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of the living will enter the city. Revelation 22:15 states, "But outside the city are the perverts and those who practise magic, the immoral and the murderers, those who worship idols and those who are liars in both words and deeds". So is wickedness entirely destroyed in the End of the Age? No, why? Because God being merciful want to give those living outside the New City another chance to repent. I am sure those living outside the New City will envy those living inside the New City. I do see a Golden Age for those living inside the New City.

God Bless.

[TheForgiven]

Hi, greg,

I rely more on the book of Revelation in interpreting the End of the World (Age) rather than 2 Peter because this is what the Book of Revelation is intended for.

According to Revelation, I don't see the whole Earth engulfed in fire but only on certain parts of the Earth. I do see a new big Holy City rebuilt in the New Heaven and a New Earth. It is a very big enclosed city in size which I know some Christians doubted literally because it is beyond their human imagination but "Is anything too hard for the Lord?"(Genesis 18:14).

Wickedness on the whole is destroyed but as mentioned in Revelation 21: 27 "But nothing impure will enter the city nor anyone who does shameful things or tell lies. Only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of the living will enter the city. Revelation 22:15 states, "But outside the city are the perverts and those who practise magic, the immoral and the murderers, those who worship idols and those who are liars in both words and deeds". So is wickedness entirely destroyed in the End of the Age? No, why? Because God being merciful want to give those living outside the New City another chance to repent. I am sure those living outside the New City will envy those living inside the New City. I do see a Golden Age for those living inside the New City.

God Bless.

Hey there brother Cheow. You brought up a great discussion regarding the size of the New Jerusalem. Here are two questions for you to think about.

1. Who or what is Jerusalem? Is it a city, or is it a body?
2. What are the characteristics of the 1,500 mile tall, wide, and long cube?

Think on those things, and remember that Paul says WE are the body of Christ; WE are the lamb’s wife. If believe that God's mystery shall be a literal city that falls upon the earth [in a mysterious, but possible way], well then what does that say for the BODY of Christ? Is His Body a city that comes from heaven, or is it a BODY that comes from heaven. His Christ's wife a structure, or a Body of believers?

....and I saw New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven, adorned as a Bride prepared for her husband....

Think about it, and tell me what you think. Here's your hint of its meaning:

Galatians 2:9
James, Peter and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews.

Revelation 10:1
Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were like fiery pillars.

Revelation 3:12
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.

What is a pillar? These were literally long round shaped beams used to uphold the ceiling, or tops of a temple, building, or structure. Destroy the pillar, and the entire roof comes crumbling down. When Jesus said to the Church, "To him who overcomes, I will make [him/her] a pillar....." what does He mean by that? The answer is obvious. Their testimony and witness is so strong that they represent a stronghold for the house of God (The Body, Wife, Temple, Family).

Now examine the structure of the New Jerusalem, and see if you can determine the meaning of the pearls, the stones, and the different jewels which makes up the "BRIDE/WIFE" of Christ (Groom).

What happens to coal when it is subjected to high heat, time, and pressure? What was originally black, dirty, and worthless, became a radiant, beautiful, and indestructible diamond.

Take that same principle, and look again at the New Jerusalem.

God be with you bro...

Joseph

[CWH]

Hi,

I come across an article on 2D barcoding and it arouses my interest because it looks like a Mark unlike traditional barcode "bars". It has several advantages over the traditional barcode in the sense that more data can be stored in a small space, it is more accurate and can be scan in any direction. Furthermore, it can be link to a website when scanned to get more details. It can also be scanned at greater distance. It can also used on invisible ink.

These advantages make this technology perfect for use in placing the "Mark" on any part of the human body with limited space such as the forehead and the hand. With this technology, a person would be able to know very detailed profile of a person by scanning the "Mark". One day, we will have a 3D barcode which will be technologically more advanced.

Just a thought.

PS website: http://www.bristolcompressors.com/In...nouncement.pdf
An excerpt from the website:
Advantages of 2D barcodes
In summary, 2D barcodes offer higher data capacity, a better fit into tiny spaces and depending on the
scanning device, the ability to be read without regard to orientation. Plus, there are advantages to
having all the information within the symbol itself versus multiple linear barcodes. Since data is encoded
in both the horizontal and vertical dimensions, more data can be packed within the barcode while
maintaining a manageable size for easy scanning. Thus, 2D barcodes will be used to contain the before
mentioned string (customer part number, Bristol part number, serial number and vendor code) where a
1D barcode (usually not representing more than a dozen characters) cannot possibly hold that amount
of data.
The main advantage of using 2D barcodes is that a large amount of easily and accurately read data can
be placed on the barcode without increasing the size of the label significantly. Thus, when it comes to
2D, less is more: more information in much less space. Best use of 2D barcodes are on labels with
limited space of an inch or less (such as the Bristol code plate) and when there is a need to capture a
small amount of data, less than 50 characters. Much larger 2D barcodes can serve as a portable data file
and contain much more than 50 characters, up to 2,335 in fact. In addition to holding large amounts of
data, 2D barcodes require much less quiet zone (only one cell width around entire perimeter), which
allows symbol location to be much closer to surrounding text and/or graphics.
One of the amazing aspects of 2D barcodes is their durability as compared to conventional barcodes.
This is due in part to its excellent error checking and correction. While a linear barcode can be ruined by
an extra vertical line or unscannable due to insufficient white space, a 2D barcode can be withstand dirt,
tears, wrinkles and sometimes partial scans without compromising the data.

Samples of 2D barcodes from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2D_barcode#2D_barcodes

God Blessed.

[TheForgiven]

If you were alive in the first century, what would the mark mean to you? Put yourself in the audience of the original readers of John's vision, and tell me what you would be thinking regarding the mark of the Beast?

The mark is not literal, but a figurative expression the same as the followers of the lamb with His name written on their foreheads. The context is within the same passage which speaks of the Beast's mark.

If the mark on the foreheads of believers is not literal, then why would the mark of the Beast be?

Joseph

[CWH]

Hi Joseph,

I believe the mark of the Beast (666) is literal, whereas the mark of the lamb with His Name on the foreheads is figurative (God doesn't need a literal mark to identify his people). The reasons are because in order for the 666 to identify people who can buy and sell and to identify who is with him and who is not, the 666 needs a mark that can be seen, be it visible or invisible. I also believe the mark of the beast to be literal based on the challenge by the author of Revelation to anyone who can identify the mark which is the beast's name or the number that stands for the name. If the mark of the beast is figurative how are we or anyone aimed to meet the challenge?

I believe the visible mark would be etched onto the palm of the right hand. Why the palm? This is because all our palms are light in color regardless of race or the color of the skin and therefore a mark on the palm is easy to see. The invisible mark will be etched or lasered into the skin of the forehead in invisible ink and could be easily identified using ultraviolet light or some other kind of light. Why invisible ink? - for obvious cosmetic reason; who would want a visible mark on their forehead? It will not be an ordinary mark, the 666 would want the mark to be able to display data or profile about the person with the beast's mark for further verification. That means the mark will be able to link to a database when scanned in order to retrieve more data or information about the person with the beast's mark.

God Blessed.

[CWH]

Hi,

Further to the previous discussion on the mark:
Branding (i.e. scarification) of slaves and livestocks were done during ancient times to identify their owners. Scarification is still done today in some tribes as a form of bonding and belonging to the tribes. Branding of livestocks such as cattles are still practiced today. This is a form of visible marking to identify ownership and belonging. There was a historical report about the visible mark being used as license to trade during Mesopotamian times 4.000 years ago but I can't find it now in the internet.

Therefore, I see no reason why the mark of the Beast should be figurative. The mark of the Beast must be literal and visible if it is for used for identification of his supporters and for commerce. It also serves as evidence of loyalty to the Beast.

God Blessed.

[Rose]

Hi Cheow Wee

The 'Mark of the Beast' has quite a different meaning than of the 'Seal of God', not only in their meanings but also the words themselves (mark = charagma, and seal = sphragis). The word 'Mark' carries with it the sense of being an object like a coin that is graven with an image, whereas the word 'Seal' carries with it the sense of being a sign upon something that is finished and set aside.

If no one could buy or sell without the 'Mark of the Beast' and everyone must worship the 'Image of the Beast' then the image must be a representation of the Beast, and the 'Mark' is that which allows people to buy and sell……what is the one thing that could be? The only answer to that is MONEY. Roman coins not only had 'the image of the Beast' the head of a Caesar inscribed upon them, but there's also the fact no one could buy or sell anything without coins.

The religious leaders even asked Jesus if it was lawful for them to use Roman coins for tribute money and he had them describe what was on the coin, and of course both the "image" which is the mark and "superscription" which is the name were on the Roman coin.

Matt. 22:17-21 'Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.'

Rev. 13:18 tells us that 'Here is wisdom' let him that has understanding count the number of the beast….it is 666, it is the number of a man. The number equivalent of the name Nero Caesar is 666; he is the epitome of all that is evil in the Roman system, which is represented by the Beast. Nero Caesar even went so far as to be the first living Caesar to have his image engraved on a coin wearing a 'radiate crown' which is a sign of deity, and the name he was often referred to by choice was 'Apollo' meaning something more than human.


Another interesting fact is that the amount of gold that King Solomon (the richest and wisest man on earth during his reign) paid himself yearly was 666 talents of gold. The Apostle John would have been well aware of the connection with wisdom and King Solomon’s 666 talents (that is money being connected with the number 666).

1 Kings 10:14 'Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents (666) of gold,'

1 Kings 10:23 'So king Solomon exceeded all the kings of the earth for riches and for wisdom.'

The term 'Here is wisdom' is used one other time in Revelation, also in reference to the Beast:

Rev 17:9 'And here is the mind that has wisdom. The seven heads (the beast) of are the seven mountains on which the woman sits.'

We are to ask for wisdom concerning the mark of the Beast, part of that wisdom is reading and learning what Revelation has to say, and then harmonizing it with the rest of Scripture. It is those who fall under the deception of Satan that reject the salvation that is offered by Christ and thus worship the world’s riches that receive the mark of the Beast, for those who are not of the camp of the Saints are in the camp of the enemy.

If we love the truth and seek after it we will not be deceived, for God will reveal to us the truth. Jesus told His disciples that in the last days when much persecution would be coming down upon them they were not to fear for they would be given a mouth with wisdom. The Apostle James tells us to ask God for wisdom who will give to all men abundantly.

Luke 21:15 'For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.'

James 1:5 'If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.'

Dan 12:10 'Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.'

Psalm 51:6 'Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.'

God Bless

Rose