Rome

[alec cotton]

Greetings one and all . I will make a proposition and if anyone can refute it I will be pleased because I can see no alternative. Dan. 8:8 mentions the he goat which is Greece. Verse 9 ,the little horn is Rome . Rome could not be mentioned by name because it did not exist as a power at that time. . Verse 11 .And by him( the Roman power) the daily sacrifice was taken away and the sanctuary( the temple) was cast down. verse 21. The rough he goat is the king of Greece. Verse 23 A king of fierce countenance ( Rome) shall stand up. Dan 11:31 They will take away the daily sacrifice and place the abomination of desolation. These statements are clear and unambiguous. . The daily sacrifice was only taken away once. In 70 A.D. By the Romans. I think that everyone will agree that the principle of one day represents one year applies throughout this book. Why then do so many ignore this principle when the angel says that from the abomination there will be two thousand three hundred days (years) then the sanctuary will be cleansed?
Alec

[gilgal]

Greetings one and all . I will make a proposition and if anyone can refute it I will be pleased because I can see no alternative. Dan. 8:8 mentions the he goat which is Greece. Verse 9 ,the little horn is Rome . Rome could not be mentioned by name because it did not exist as a power at that time. . Verse 11 .And by him( the Roman power) the daily sacrifice was taken away and the sanctuary( the temple) was cast down. verse 21. The rough he goat is the king of Greece. Verse 23 A king of fierce countenance ( Rome) shall stand up. Dan 11:31 They will take away the daily sacrifice and place the abomination of desolation. These statements are clear and unambiguous. . The daily sacrifice was only taken away once. In 70 A.D. By the Romans. I think that everyone will agree that the principle of one day represents one year applies throughout this book. Why then do so many ignore this principle when the angel says that from the abomination there will be two thousand three hundred days (years) then the sanctuary will be cleansed?
Alec

we're going to have to live 2300 years to find out if that interpretation is true or not.
Daniel 9 mentioned the people of the prince that shall come. I take it that the people are Romans, who destroyed the temple. And the prince is referring as futuristic.

[CWH]

There are some interesting websites that say the abomination of desolation is the Dome of the Rock on Mount Olives. Although this is highly speculative because no one knows when the end will come or when the Son of man will come but it's worth a thought:

http://www.bibletruth.cc/Body_Abomin...Desolation.htm

Excerpt:
It is simple arithmetic to begin counting from the date of the Abomination that desolates (684 C.E.) and add to that 1335 years. That brings us to the year 2019. In the year 2019, the second part of the prophesy, that which is stated in verse 12, will be fulfilled. This is the time when the Messiah will return and the resurrection is to take place. It is just that simple.

607 B.C. the removal of the tamid

+ 1290 years the “1290 days” of Daniel 12:11

= 684 C.E. the construction of the Abomination – the Dome of the Rock

+ 1335 years the “1335 days” of Daniel 12:12

= 2019 C.E. the time of the return of Messiah and the resurrection of the dead


Another website:

http://www.comeandsee.org/TTW-html/M1chap11.html

Now with all these thoughts in mind, once again I want you to focus on the fact that there just happens to be 1,260 years (42 "months") between 688 (the year they began construction on the Dome of the Rock) and 1948, (when Israel was established as a nation.) Again recall what the Scripture calls for; "...and they will tread the holy city under foot forty-two months."

(**My Note: if 1260 years = 1948, add 75 years to 1260 = 1335, 1335 years = 2023).


Another website: It calculates from AD 691 (end of the building of the Dome of the Rock) + 1335 = 2026. The Dome of the Rock was a clever move by the Muslims to prevent Jews from worshipping in a temple on the Mount of Olives and "This building is preventing the Jews from re-establishing the Temple and its sacrifices for the good of all mankind and the peace of the world.". It somehow represents dominance of Islam over Christianity.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/566126/posts


Excerpt:
Remember, every bit of that oh-so-pretty Arabic arabesque script on this little shrine dating from AD 691, is a slander-in-stone, posing as a sermon-in-stone, against Christianity which had ruled Jerusalem for centuries under Byzantium prior to the Islamic takeover in the AD 638-40 era. "God has no Son. It is Blasphemy to Say He has Taken a Son." would be the least of what is written there. This Dome is not a mosque, and it is an artifact of pure hatred against Christianity.

It also is an artifact of pure hatred against Judaism, for it occupies and stands upon the holy precincts of the Temples of Solomon and of Herod (first and second Temples)...a dog in the manger as it were, which neither itself worships, nor allows the Jews to worship, God as He ought to be. This building is preventing the Jews from re-establishing the Temple and its sacrifices for the good of all mankind and the peace of the world.

As I understand it, the Dome itself stands over the area reserved solely for Jewish men (court of Israel) in the time of Jesus, including the area of the altar of sacrifice and the "holy" (as opposed to Most Holy) place of the Temple (Bet ha Mikdosh) itself. I believe that the place of the Ark of the Covenant in the Most Holy, however, stands on the western steps leading up to the octagonal Dome structure...

Called by Daniel the "Abomination of Desolation" (loathsome thing), this structure was stated in Dan. 11 and 12 to stand until the indignation (wrath) of God against Israel for its sins was over, but that was to end in 1290 or 1335 years from the construction of same in 691. Thus, its fall is up in 1981 or in 2026, and I think the 1981 date referred to the finding of the Ark in that year...


All these are speculatives and we can only wait and see if it comes true.....AD 2019, 2023, 2026. I understand that preterists will say that it will never come true because all predictions from the futurists so far have not come true, but just gives them the benefit of doubt, and if it never comes true well, we can then follow like the preterists by declaring them as false prophets.

Many Blessings

[gilgal]

There are some interesting websites that say the abomination of desolation is the Dome of the Rock on Mount Olives. Although this is highly speculative because no one knows when the end will come or when the Son of man will come but it's worth a thought:

http://www.bibletruth.cc/Body_Abomin...Desolation.htm

Excerpt:
It is simple arithmetic to begin counting from the date of the Abomination that desolates (684 C.E.) and add to that 1335 years. That brings us to the year 2019. In the year 2019, the second part of the prophesy, that which is stated in verse 12, will be fulfilled. This is the time when the Messiah will return and the resurrection is to take place. It is just that simple.

607 B.C. the removal of the tamid

+ 1290 years the '1290 days' of Daniel 12:11

= 684 C.E. the construction of the Abomination – the Dome of the Rock

+ 1335 years the '1335 days' of Daniel 12:12

= 2019 C.E. the time of the return of Messiah and the resurrection of the dead


Another website:

http://www.comeandsee.org/TTW-html/M1chap11.html

Now with all these thoughts in mind, once again I want you to focus on the fact that there just happens to be 1,260 years (42 "months") between 688 (the year they began construction on the Dome of the Rock) and 1948, (when Israel was established as a nation.) Again recall what the Scripture calls for; "...and they will tread the holy city under foot forty-two months."

(**My Note: if 1260 years = 1948, add 75 years to 1260 = 1335, 1335 years = 2023).


Another website: It calculates from AD 691 (end of the building of the Dome of the Rock) + 1335 = 2026. The Dome of the Rock was a clever move by the Muslims to prevent Jews from worshipping in a temple on the Mount of Olives and "This building is preventing the Jews from re-establishing the Temple and its sacrifices for the good of all mankind and the peace of the world.". It somehow represents dominance of Islam over Christianity.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/566126/posts


Excerpt:
Remember, every bit of that oh-so-pretty Arabic arabesque script on this little shrine dating from AD 691, is a slander-in-stone, posing as a sermon-in-stone, against Christianity which had ruled Jerusalem for centuries under Byzantium prior to the Islamic takeover in the AD 638-40 era. "God has no Son. It is Blasphemy to Say He has Taken a Son." would be the least of what is written there. This Dome is not a mosque, and it is an artifact of pure hatred against Christianity.

It also is an artifact of pure hatred against Judaism, for it occupies and stands upon the holy precincts of the Temples of Solomon and of Herod (first and second Temples)...a dog in the manger as it were, which neither itself worships, nor allows the Jews to worship, God as He ought to be. This building is preventing the Jews from re-establishing the Temple and its sacrifices for the good of all mankind and the peace of the world.

As I understand it, the Dome itself stands over the area reserved solely for Jewish men (court of Israel) in the time of Jesus, including the area of the altar of sacrifice and the "holy" (as opposed to Most Holy) place of the Temple (Bet ha Mikdosh) itself. I believe that the place of the Ark of the Covenant in the Most Holy, however, stands on the western steps leading up to the octagonal Dome structure...

Called by Daniel the "Abomination of Desolation" (loathsome thing), this structure was stated in Dan. 11 and 12 to stand until the indignation (wrath) of God against Israel for its sins was over, but that was to end in 1290 or 1335 years from the construction of same in 691. Thus, its fall is up in 1981 or in 2026, and I think the 1981 date referred to the finding of the Ark in that year...


All these are speculatives and we can only wait and see if it comes true.....AD 2019, 2023, 2026. I understand that preterists will say that it will never come true because all predictions from the futurists so far have not come true, but just gives them the benefit of doubt, and if it never comes true well, we can then follow like the preterists by declaring them as false prophets.

Many Blessings

It bothers me to interpret years for days in Daniel because there's no hint to do so, unlike Numbers and Ezekiel where it says each day for a year.

On the other hand I see within the western world such as US and France the ancient empires have had much to influence our societies. Look at the architectures, philosophy...

[CWH]

HI gilgal,

You are a partial preterist and a partial futurist, somewhat same as me a preterist-futurist; but I tell you RAM is totally against that idea, you are either a preterist or a futurist never partial.

Thanks for your impressive list of the 10 dynasties. The reason why I said you may be wrong is that you need to understand the statue that Nebuchadnezzar dreamt of. This I have put across in another thread that we need to understand what is the feet of the statue made from iron and clay. This is the most important part and the weakest part of the statue so that when the stone hit the feet the whole statue fell down in one piece. Lets's look at the statue again:

1) We know that the golden head of the statue was the Babylonian Empire
2) The two silver arms was the Mede which later was took over by the Persian, therefore the Medes and Persian Empire
3) The body of bronze was the Greek Empire
4) The 2 legs of Iron was the Roman Empire, Western and Eastern.
5) The 2 feet of the statue of Iron and clay???....? EU and ... ? Arab League. The countries that formed the EU and the Arab League were once the regions or part of the regions of the Roman Empire and therefore have the iron in them. That seems to explain that when the stone hit the feet, the whole statue fall down in one piece meaning that the regions that once were the glory of the Babylonian, Mede-Persian, Greek, Romans will all collapsed into the hands of Jesus when He comes in His power.



Many Blessings.

I just have an inspiration, why was the statue of Nebuchadnessar in the form of a man? And this man statue represents the major empires of the known western and middle eastern world? Who was this man that the statue represents? I don't think this man in the statue represented Nebuchadnessar. And why did Christ hit this man statue at his feet to cause the collaspe of these empires?

The statue of Neuchadnessar may represents kingdoms such as the Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Roman but I believe that the different parts actually represents each great world leaders of their times. The head of gold was Nebuchadnessar... the arms and upper torso of silver was.... Xerxes, the lower torso of brass was....Alexander the Great, the legs of iron was.....perhaps Augustus Caesar, the toes and feet of iron and clay was.....?? antichrist?

There is an artical in the internet that suggest that the feet and toes of the statue is the antichrist system:

http://www.endtimessecrets.com/The_g...zars_dream.htm

I think the man in Nebuchadnessar's statue represents the anti-christ himself who would rule over the world. He would rule the regions once were parts of the Babylonian, Persian, greek and Roman Empire. I believe the anti-christ to be a coming powerful world leader just like what the head, legs, torso etc. represented; it is the statue of the man who is the antichrist. It is by hitting i.e. destroying the antichrist will Christ and the Gospels be able to take over the world. Curiously,there is also a mention of the statue of the Beast in Revelation 12 and it looks like a mutually confirming passage:

11Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. 12He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. 14Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

Look at Daniel 2 which describes Nebuchadnessar as "You are the head of gold" (of the statue), Does other parts of the body of the statue also represents great world leaders of ancient times?:

31 "You looked, O king, and there before you stood a large statue—an enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance. 32 The head of the statue was made of pure gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, 33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay. 34 While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were broken to pieces at the same time and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.

36 "This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. 37 You, O king, are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; 38 in your hands he has placed mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds of the air. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.

Now I can answer this question of why there was no 5th kingdom? the 1st kingdom...the head of gold was King Nebuchadnessar, the second kingdom....the arms and upper torso was King Xerxes, the third kingdom....the lower torso was King Alexander the Great, the fourth kingdom ....the legs was Augustus Caesar. There is no fifth kingdom of iron and clay because there is no king to rule a non-existing kingdom. The antichrist is a future leader that will rule a large area that is not a kingdom and therefore he cannot have the title of a "king". We don't call Obama as King Obama because the US is not a kingdom.

Many Blessings.

[gilgal]

In the book of Acts the 2nd chapter people from the 4 parts of the statue were present on the day of Pentecost to bring the message back to their land:

Acts 2
9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Now listen to this. Jesus did preach the Gospel of the Kingdom in parables. The wheat and the tares...the tares were taken out but the wheat remained.

Acts 2 goes along with Matthew 24 that the gospel must be preached first and THEN the end will come. So the Gospel is preached in Acts and in Revelation the end comes.

Though I may not agree in everything John Daniel says in Scarlet and the Beast you might want to check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/user/scarletandthebeast

[CWH]

Now listen to this. Jesus did preach the Gospel of the Kingdom in parables. The wheat and the tares...the tares were taken out but the wheat remained.

Acts 2 goes along with Matthew 24 that the gospel must be preached first and THEN the end will come. So the Gospel is preached in Acts and in Revelation the end comes.

Though I may not agree in everything John Daniel says in Scarlet and the Beast you might want to check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/user/scarletandthebeast

People have been preaching the Gospels since AD 30s till now but the end has yet to come. Were their preaching of the gospels in vain? If the end had already come then what is the point of preaching the Gospels today?

In the book of Acts the 2nd chapter people from the 4 parts of the statue were present on the day of Pentecost to bring the message back to their land:

Have you realized that the 4 kingdoms of the statue were 2 western (Roman and Greek) and 2 Middle Eastern (Babylonian and Persian); none were from the northern and southern regions? So the 4 parts of the statue does not seems to represent the 4 corners of the world.

It is interesting to note that the statue of Nebuchadnessar was arranged in chronological order starting with the head, then Babylonian (bout 600 BC) then the Persian (about 500 BC), then the Greek (about 300 BC) then the Romans (about 100 BC) and then ends with the clay + iron (about ? years); from one golden head and ends with the 10 toes representing the 10 heads of the Beast....the EU?

Many Blessings.

[gilgal]

Have you realized that the 4 kingdoms of the statue were 2 western (Roman and Greek) and 2 Middle Eastern (Babylonian and Persian); none were from the northern and southern regions? So the 4 parts of the statue does not seems to represent the 4 corners of the world.

I doubt. Greece occupied most of present Turkey which would be Israel's north.

It is interesting to note that the statue of Nebuchadnessar was arranged in chronological order starting with the head, then Babylonian (bout 600 BC) then the Persian (about 500 BC), then the Greek (about 300 BC) then the Romans (about 100 BC) and then ends with the clay + iron (about ? years); from one golden head and ends with the 10 toes representing the 10 heads of the Beast....the EU?

Notice that the stone hit the statue all at once?

[CWH]

I doubt. Greece occupied most of present Turkey which would be Israel's north.

Notice that the stone hit the statue all at once?

I don't see the statue as pointing to the regions north, east, south, west of Israel. I see it as the image of the antichrist and it represents the antichrist system started since the Babylonian Empire whereby Israel was conquered and its people exiled into a foreign land. All the 4 kingdoms listed, the Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Romans occupied Israel and no doubt the antichrist who will also occupied the regions of those empires too when he comes. (Note that Israel have been occupied by other countries since the Babylonian empire and have never existed as an independent country since 1948). By destroying the antichrist, Christ would destroy the antichrist system built since the Babylonian Empire thus allowing the Gospel to be spread throughout those regions. Currently, it has been difficult to spread the Gospel to the staunchly Islamic countries of the AL because of their anti-Christian and anti-Israel stance (antichrist system) but that would be solved once Christ came to destroy the antichrist and its system.

Many Blessings.

[gilgal]

I don't see the statue as pointing to the regions north, east, south, west of Israel. I see it as the image of the antichrist and it represents the antichrist system started since the Babylonian Empire whereby Israel was conquered and its people exiled into a foreign land. All the 4 kingdoms listed, the Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Romans occupied Israel and no doubt the antichrist who will also occupied the regions of those empires too when he comes. (Note that Israel have been occupied by other countries since the Babylonian empire and have never existed as an independent country since 1948). By destroying the antichrist, Christ would destroy the antichrist system built since the Babylonian Empire thus allowing the Gospel to be spread throughout those regions. Currently, it has been difficult to spread the Gospel to the staunchly Islamic countries of the AL because of their anti-Christian and anti-Israel stance (antichrist system) but that would be solved once Christ came to destroy the antichrist and its system.

Many Blessings.

You'd be surprised that the presidents' lineages go back to ancient Assyrian/Babylonians kings. The Rothschilds claim that their lineage goes back to Nimrod!

Fritz Springmeir made the assumption that the Anti-Christ would have Rothschild and Merovyngian (European Royalty) blood.