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Thread: Rome

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    I don't know if there is any importance in dividing the arms and legs into separate kingdoms. Why didn't the waist (brass) divide in four generals?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kings_of_Persia
    So how do we make the connections between the Persian history and Daniel's prophecy? It's hard to make the connections in history so should we attempt to interpret the future?
    Hi gilgal,

    I am glad you asked, "Why didn't the waist (brass) divide in four generals?". The abdomen is in fact divided into 4 quadrants as reflected in human anatomy:



    The Mede-Persian Empire was in fact divided into 2 parts as according to history. The Persian revolted against the Mede and established the Empire and therefore know as the Mede-Persian Empire.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mpires_of_Iran

    I agree that everyone is persuaded one way or another in the interpretation of prophesies and the book of Daniel and Revelation have baffled the minds of people past and present. Nobody could interpret with 100% accuracy those prophecies....wish Daniel is here with us today.

    Many Blessings.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock View Post
    HI gilgal,

    You are a partial preterist and a partial futurist, somewhat same as me a preterist-futurist; but I tell you RAM is totally against that idea, you are either a preterist or a futurist never partial.
    Hey there Cheow,

    Tell me which of these points you disagree with:

    1) Preterists assert that all the seals have been opened.

    2) Historicists (and some partial Futurists?) assert that some (maybe only one) of the seals have been opened.

    3) Full Futurists believe that none of the seals have been opened.

    If you agree with these three definitions, then you agree that there can be no such thing as a "Preterist-Futurist" because Point #1 contradicts both Point #2 and Point #3.

    All the very best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Hey there Cheow,

    Tell me which of these points you disagree with:

    1) Preterists assert that all the seals have been opened.

    2) Historicists (and some partial Futurists?) assert that some (maybe only one) of the seals have been opened.

    3) Full Futurists believe that none of the seals have been opened.

    If you agree with these three definitions, then you agree that there can be no such thing as a "Preterist-Futurist" because Point #1 contradicts both Point #2 and Point #3.

    All the very best,

    Richard
    Hey Richard! Are you talking about the seals of Revelation 6? I haven't considered that. If it was opened then how different was it than before it has been opened? hmmm...maybe the 1st 4 seals have been opened...

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock View Post
    HI gilgal,

    You are a partial preterist and a partial futurist, somewhat same as me a preterist-futurist; but I tell you RAM is totally against that idea, you are either a preterist or a futurist never partial.

    Thanks for your impressive list of the 10 dynasties. The reason why I said you may be wrong is that you need to understand the statue that Nebuchadnezzar dreamt of. This I have put across in another thread that we need to understand what is the feet of the statue made from iron and clay. This is the most important part and the weakest part of the statue so that when the stone hit the feet the whole statue fell down in one piece. Lets's look at the statue again:

    1) We know that the golden head of the statue was the Babylonian Empire
    2) The two silver arms was the Mede which later was took over by the Persian, therefore the Medes and Persian Empire
    3) The body of bronze was the Greek Empire
    4) The 2 legs of Iron was the Roman Empire, Western and Eastern.
    5) The 2 feet of the statue of Iron and clay???....? EU and ... ? Arab League. The countries that formed the EU and the Arab League were once the regions or part of the regions of the Roman Empire and therefore have the iron in them. That seems to explain that when the stone hit the feet, the whole statue fall down in one piece meaning that the regions that once were the glory of the Babylonian, Mede-Persian, Greek, Romans will all collapsed into the hands of Jesus when He comes in His power.



    Many Blessings.
    Gen.49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
    .
    It's interesting to note that in the fulfillment of the prophecy of the last Lawgiver (Christ) to pass from between the feet of Judah, another prophecy was fulfilled that was given in Daniel. The Stone cut without hands (Christ the last Lawgiver who came to earth during the reign of the Roman empire), smote the feet of the statue (Roman empire) causing the ultimate destruction of the entire statue.
    .
    Dan.2:33-34 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.....43-44 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
    .
    From history we know this to be true; when Jesus came to earth in the 1st century bringing in the everlasting kingdom of God, the beginnings of the demise of the Roman empire started. Thus we have Shiloh who was the last ruler to come from between the feet of the tribe of Judah (after the temple was destroyed all records of tribal affiliation was lost), being the Stone that smashed the feet of the last mighty empire (Rome) that ruled during the time of His earthly mission, ultimately bringing it into submission to the cross....thus fulfilling Daniels prophecy.



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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Hey there Cheow,

    Tell me which of these points you disagree with:

    1) Preterists assert that all the seals have been opened.

    2) Historicists (and some partial Futurists?) assert that some (maybe only one) of the seals have been opened.

    3) Full Futurists believe that none of the seals have been opened.

    If you agree with these three definitions, then you agree that there can be no such thing as a "Preterist-Futurist" because Point #1 contradicts both Point #2 and Point #3.

    All the very best,


    Richard
    I disagree with #1 and 3. I am more of #2.

    Many Blessings.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock View Post
    I disagree with #1 and 3. I am more of #2.

    Many Blessings.
    That's exactly what I thought you believed from all the things you have written.

    So do you now agree that there is no such thing as a "Preterist-Futurist?"
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    That's exactly what I thought you believed from all the things you have written.

    So do you now agree that there is no such thing as a "Preterist-Futurist?"
    Hi RAM,

    The term "Preterism-Futurist" is my wish that one day the issues facing preterists and futurists will one day be harmoniously settled. It's my earnest prayer. Don't you want it this way? For man it may be impossible but for God, Nothing is impossible.

    Many Blessings.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock View Post
    Hi RAM,

    The term "Preterism-Futurist" is my wish that one day the issues facing preterists and futurists will one day be harmoniously settled. It's my earnest prayer. Don't you want it this way? For man it may be impossible but for God, Nothing is impossible.

    Many Blessings.
    I am in absolute agreement with you on this desire! Let us pray it comes to pass.

    And what is the Key that will bring us to this Unity we desire?

    One word: Truth.

    We know that Preterists and Futurists can not both be correct because they say things that contradict each other. We can not fix this by inventing a nonsensical term like "Preterist-Futurist." That only confuses things. Our job is to establish what the Bible really says so that we can all come closer to the Unity of that Truth. This doesn't mean that any of us will have all the answers - far from it! Many things will remain uncertain and folks will have their different insights. That is a very good thing. But we must establish the foundation of the Truth first.

    All the very best my friend,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #19
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    On the one hand Jesus spoke the parables of the Kingdom setting up the kingdom by opening the minds of men. (What do you think of the saying the ston ewhich the builders rejected has become the head of the corner. And jesus was saying about the stone crushing them? Luke? or Matthew 22?).

    On the other hand Jesus mentioned about the abomination of desolation of Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place. Antiochus Epiphanies had done that the 1st time. But Jesus spoke of a future time.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    On the one hand Jesus spoke the parables of the Kingdom setting up the kingdom by opening the minds of men. (What do you think of the saying the ston ewhich the builders rejected has become the head of the corner. And jesus was saying about the stone crushing them? Luke? or Matthew 22?).

    On the other hand Jesus mentioned about the abomination of desolation of Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place. Antiochus Epiphanies had done that the 1st time. But Jesus spoke of a future time.
    Good questions gilgal,

    I believe the part about the corner stone which the builders rejected in the gospel and the part in which the stone crushing the statue in Daniel may or may not be connected. On one hand it seems to say that Jesus or the teachings of Jesus which people rejected is actually the most important part of their life Not believing Jesus would only end in a disastrous death. On the other hand it seems to say that Jesus which they have killed will be the one who will in the end returns in power to destroy them (i.e. the building and the statue).

    We are not very sure what the abomination of desolation of Daniel means; anyone's guess is as good as mine but I personally believe it is an event of the future. Antiochus perhaps did that, Titus perhaps did that, the Muslims that built the Dome of the Rock in the 7th century perhaps did that.

    Many Blessings to you.
    Last edited by CWH; 03-15-2010 at 07:41 PM.

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