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  1. #1
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    The mystery of Christ.....revealed!

    Eph. 3:3-11 'How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:'

    Eph. 6:19 'And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,"

    Col 1:26 'Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:'
    What is the mystery of Christ?



    In the above verses Paul tells us that "this mystery" that has been hid in God from the beginning of the world, is now made known to the Apostles and Prophets…."this mystery" is that the Gentiles are now made fellow heirs of promise of Christ, which is 'the Gospel' which means we all (Gentiles included) can now be saved and partake in 'Eternal Life'. If this 'mystery of Christ' is allowing the Gentiles to fully partake in Salvation along with the Jew, then the mystery that Paul is speaking of in Romans that he doesn’t want them to be ignorant of is also of that same promise….


    Rom. 11:25-27 'For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness (pleroma= meaning to fill up, to finish) of the Gentiles be come in. And so (houto=in this manner) all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.'

    Luke 21:24 'And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times (kairos=appointed time) of the Gentiles be fulfilled (pleroo=to make full, to complete).'
    …..that the Gentiles 'appointed time' has come, and when their fullness is come in (that is the going forth of the Gospel into all the world), then that defines 'the manner' in which all 'Israel' shall be saved….through Christ alone.

    Matt. 24:14 'And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; (ethnos=Gentiles) and then shall the end come.'

    Rev. 10:7 'But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.'

    Rev. 14:6-7 'And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.'
    In tying all of the above verses together we first see the 'mystery of Christ' being defined as 'the Gospel', that is now made available for the Gentile, and before the 'end comes' that Gospel must be sent out and preached to 'all the nations'. This is what is said to be 'the fullness of the Gentiles' in Luke and Romans, so when that happens the end will come, and that is the way that all of Israel will be saved, no longer will it be by the Temple sacrifices for those are done away with…..now all who are saved must come through Christ.

    When the seventh angel in Revelation 10 sounds it is declared the 'mystery of God' should be finished, that is referring to the Gospel being preached to all the nations, which is what Paul and the other Apostles did. That is what the symbolic vision in Rev. 14 of the angel having the 'everlasting Gospel' to preach to 'every nation' before the 'hour of judgment' comes is.

    Once judgment is poured out upon Jerusalem (that happened in 70 A.D.), and the temple is gone, and there are no more sacrifices- the only way to salvation is through Jesus Christ, that is the only way to be saved, which includes all of Israel…..they are no longer separate, all are one in Christ.

    Any thoughts?

    Rose
    Last edited by Rose; 09-23-2008 at 08:22 PM. Reason: add verse
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    What is the mystery of Christ?

    In the above verses Paul tells us that "this mystery" that has been hid in God from the beginning of the world, is now made known to the Apostles and Prophets…."this mystery" is that the Gentiles are now made fellow heirs of promise of Christ, which is 'the Gospel' which means we all (Gentiles included) can now be saved and partake in 'Eternal Life'. If this 'mystery of Christ' is allowing the Gentiles to fully partake in Salvation along with the Jew, then the mystery that Paul is speaking of in Romans that he doesn’t want them to be ignorant of is also of that same promise….

    …..that the Gentiles 'appointed time' has come, and when their fullness is come in (that is the going forth of the Gospel into all the world), then that defines 'the manner' in which all 'Israel' shall be saved….through Christ alone.

    In tying all of the above verses together we first see the 'mystery of Christ' being defined as 'the Gospel', that is now made available for the Gentile, and before the 'end comes' that Gospel must be sent out and preached to 'all the nations'. This is what is said to be 'the fullness of the Gentiles' in Luke and Romans, so when that happens the end will come, and that is the way that all of Israel will be saved, no longer will it be by the Temple sacrifices for those are done away with…..now all who are saved must come through Christ.

    When the seventh angel in Revelation 10 sounds it is declared the 'mystery of God' should be finished, that is referring to the Gospel being preached to all the nations, which is what Paul and the other Apostles did. That is what the symbolic vision in Rev. 14 of the angel having the 'everlasting Gospel' to preach to 'every nation' before the 'hour of judgment' comes is.

    Once judgment is poured out upon Jerusalem (that happened in 70 A.D.), and the temple is gone, and there are no more sacrifices- the only way to salvation is through Jesus Christ, that is the only way to be saved, which includes all of Israel…..they are no longer separate, all are one in Christ.

    Any thoughts?

    Rose
    Excellent insights my dear!


    I would add these confirmations from Paul:
    1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


    Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.


    Colossians 1:5-6 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:


    Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
    The "Great Commission" was fulfilled in the first century before the end of that age (aion) was completed with the utter destruction of the Temple which was outward sign of God's first Covenant.


    Of course, this does not mean that people no longer need to fulfill the command to preach the Gospel! But when we preach the Gospel now, it is not in the first century context in which the Gospel was then for the first time going forth unto the Gentiles as the Kingdom was transfered from the Jews to the Christians.
    Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

    This is the same "Kingdom of God" in which we Christians now live. It is the same as the "Kingdom of Heaven" that was preached as the mystery to be received by the Elect:
    Matthew 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

    And it is the same Kingdom that is revealed by the Holy Spirit in believers:
    John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    This is indeed the Kingdom that Christ brought to earth. This is the essence of the "Gospel of the Kingdom."

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Excellent insights my dear!


    I would add these confirmations from Paul:
    1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


    Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.


    Colossians 1:5-6 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:


    Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
    The "Great Commission" was fulfilled in the first century before the end of that age (aion) was completed with the utter destruction of the Temple which was outward sign of God's first Covenant.


    Of course, this does not mean that people no longer need to fulfill the command to preach the Gospel! But when we preach the Gospel now, it is not in the first century context in which the Gospel was then for the first time going forth unto the Gentiles as the Kingdom was transfered from the Jews to the Christians.
    Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

    This is the same "Kingdom of God" in which we Christians now live. It is the same as the "Kingdom of Heaven" that was preached as the mystery to be received by the Elect:
    Matthew 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

    And it is the same Kingdom that is revealed by the Holy Spirit in believers:
    John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    This is indeed the Kingdom that Christ brought to earth. This is the essence of the "Gospel of the Kingdom."

    Richard
    When I see the word "Mystery" in Scripture I think of something that cannot be shared by words only. It has to be experienced by the Spirit. It is a gift.
    If you look at Jacob's travels and experiences in Genesis you will see a pattern. He has a vision or experience from God and his name changes to Israel. "Following after God" to "Overcoming with God."
    This is US. Jacob has an experience of the vision of a ladder and his awareness changes. He says "Surely the Lord is in this place and I knew it not." This is not a geographical "place." It is a place in Cosciousness or understanding that we have all had. God is here no matter where we are.

    A few chapters later we read
    Gen 32:24 "...And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day..."
    This "Breaking of Day" is "Enlightenment." Jacob knew something that a moment before he had no idea of.

    A bit further we read; 26 "And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
    27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
    28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed."

    Now this going from Jacob to Israel is true Experiential Knowledge. As Rose pointed out in another post this is true Biblical knowledge. Becoming "one with."

    Jacob wrestling with an angel (Malkim, Messenger) is us wrestling with a concept or "message from God" in Scripture. Israel is US after we have "prevailed" by the Spirit enlightening us to that concept.
    The Mystery of Israel after the flesh vs. Israel after the Spirit has been verbally revealed to us by Paul. Israel is not a people connected by genetics.
    But a people connected by Spirit and belief. It is the "Circumcision of the heart" that allows us to believe.
    It is the Spirit that reveals this Mystery by revelation.

    Col 1:25 "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
    26 Even the MYSTERY which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
    27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this MYSTERY among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:"

    It is the saints, "Believers" to whom this mystery is "Manifest."

    Interestingly enough, Jesus seems to have taken it as a sign that this "Time" or "dispensation" had come when Greeks "Gentiles" came asking about him.

    Jn 12:20 "And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:
    21 The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.
    22 Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus.
    23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
    24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit."

    Bob

  4. #4
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    Thanks Rose, Richard, and Bob, for providing these things to think about. Rose, you are right on when you speak of this mystery being through Christ alone. It had to be a mystery, as scripture says, otherwise, "had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."

    And the point you brought out Richard about the kingdom of God being a mystery, that it is what we live in now. I especially enjoyed that.

    It is tied together in the statement you made Bob, about the mystery needing to be something given by the Spirit.

    Just to add my 2 cents to this about these points, it can be seen that while physical Israel was looking for a physical tangible fulfillment of the promises, concerning them alone, with the nations remaining separate, the mystery was that these promises would all be fulfilled spiritually, spiritually returning to the promised land (Christ himself), spiritual kingdom within, (spiritual yet nonetheless real) spiritual resurrection, etc., and concerning the wrapping up of all in true Israel in Christ, hidden in God.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob May View Post
    When I see the word "Mystery" in Scripture I think of something that cannot be shared by words only. It has to be experienced by the Spirit. It is a gift.
    If you look at Jacob's travels and experiences in Genesis you will see a pattern. He has a vision or experience from God and his name changes to Israel. "Following after God" to "Overcoming with God."
    This is US. Jacob has an experience of the vision of a ladder and his awareness changes. He says "Surely the Lord is in this place and I knew it not." This is not a geographical "place." It is a place in Cosciousness or understanding that we have all had. God is here no matter where we are.

    A few chapters later we read
    Gen 32:24 "...And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day..."
    This "Breaking of Day" is "Enlightenment." Jacob knew something that a moment before he had no idea of.

    A bit further we read; 26 "And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
    27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
    28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed."

    Now this going from Jacob to Israel is true Experiential Knowledge. As Rose pointed out in another post this is true Biblical knowledge. Becoming "one with."
    That's how I see it too - to "know" in the "biblcal sense" is connected dircectly with the most intimate of human relations. Adam "knew" his wife when they became "one flesh" and the consequence was new life (like new insight). The Hebrew "to know" is "yado" which is spelt with the letters Yod Dalet Ayin. The first two spell "hand" and the last letter means "eye." So we have both forms of knowing included in this one word - to know "experientially" (touch/hand) and intellectually (eye/vision). It is interesting that this root appears to correspond directly to the Greek word is "eido" or "oida" which is translated as "know" 282 times in the NT. Most scholars connect this with the Sanskrit "veda" (to know) and Latin "vedere" (to see). Only in the Hebrew does this root have the strong emphasis on "experiential" knowledge represented by touch/hand. I have always connected this with the different demands made by the Jews and the Greeks:
    1 Corinthians 1:22-23

    For the Jews require a sign (physical demonstration),
    and the Greeks seek after wisdom (intellectual demonstration):
    But we preach Christ crucified,
    unto the Jews a stumblingblock (physical hinderance),
    and unto the Greeks foolishness (intellectual hinderance);
    But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  6. #6
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    gregoryfl
    Thanks Rose, Richard, and Bob, for providing these things to think about. Rose, you are right on when you speak of this mystery being through Christ alone. It had to be a mystery, as scripture says, otherwise, "had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."

    And the point you brought out Richard about the kingdom of God being a mystery, that it is what we live in now. I especially enjoyed that.

    It is tied together in the statement you made Bob, about the mystery needing to be something given by the Spirit.

    Just to add my 2 cents to this about these points, it can be seen that while physical Israel was looking for a physical tangible fulfillment of the promises, concerning them alone, with the nations remaining separate, the mystery was that these promises would all be fulfilled spiritually, spiritually returning to the promised land (Christ himself), spiritual kingdom within, (spiritual yet nonetheless real) spiritual resurrection, etc., and concerning the wrapping up of all in true Israel in Christ, hidden in God.



    We can not forget that ALL of 'The Promises' (Blessings and Curses) were given to 'Israel'..... Only 'Israel'.... This did not only 'plays its' self ouut' Spiritually, But also, Physically. In order for Ezikiels 'two sticks' (Ephraim and Juduah)to 'come back' together, there had to be a mysterious event. Ephraim could not 'come back' to God, under the Mosaic Covenant Law Marriage, as she had comitted Harlotry and was given a writ of divorce...she could Never return to her 'former' husband. 'Ephraim' ('Israel') became 'as gentiles'.... she was sown to 'the nations'.... 'the nations' of the northern house ('Israel') were now Goem... Gentiles... But God Promised the 'Restoration' of the Tabernacle of David.... that had to constituted the 'Remnent Elect' of ALL Twelve (thirteen) Tribes.... This is Pauls mystery..... Jesus/God...Died to and from the old Marriage contract. All that was left of this 'old' contract is that the terms of that contract be 'fulfilled' (Read Lev. 26) 'A' New 'contract' (betrothal) was given a Pentecost by The Holy Spirit. (Jesus was 'manifested for one reason...'to take away the Sins' of 'The World'...which encomassd a lot of action. ie. advacate, judge, Priest, Lamb, ect.). Now and only now (Pentecost) could 'the Nations' (all Israel) be 'Saved', with any/all other Spiritually Born Gentiles/Greeks. The 'whole House of David' is now back together. 'All Israel' is encompassed into The House (church) of God.... Mystery solved. Jew and Gentile (Israel/Ephraim) and Greeks....under one House. Salvation has come to 'The Nations'.


    Brother Les
    Last edited by Brother Les; 09-22-2008 at 11:02 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    [/color]


    We can not forget that ALL of 'The Promises' (Blessings and Curses) were given to 'Israel'..... Only 'Israel'.... This did not only 'plays its' self ouut' Spiritually, But also, Physically. In order for Ezikiels 'two sticks' (Ephraim and Juduah)to 'come back' together, there had to be a mysterious event. Ephraim could not 'come back' to God, under the Mosaic Covenant Law Marriage, as she had comitted Harlotry and was given a writ of divorce...she could Never return to her 'former' husband. 'Ephraim' ('Israel') became 'as gentiles'.... she was sown to 'the nations'.... 'the nations' of the northern house ('Israel') were now Goem... Gentiles... But God Promised the 'Restoration' of the Tabernacle of David.... that had to constituted the 'Remnent Elect' of ALL Twelve (thirteen) Tribes.... This is Pauls mystery..... Jesus/God...Died to and from the old Marriage contract. All that was left of this 'old' contract is that the terms of that contract be 'fulfilled' (Read Lev. 26) 'A' New 'contract' (betrothal) was given a Pentecost by The Holy Spirit. (Jesus was 'manifested for one reason...'to take away the Sins' of 'The World'...which encomassd a lot of action. ie. advacate, judge, Priest, Lamb, ect.). Now and only now (Pentecost) could 'the Nations' (all Israel) be 'Saved', with any/all other Spiritually Born Gentiles/Greeks. The 'whole House of David' is now back together. 'All Israel' is encompassed into The House (church) of God.... Mystery solved. Jew and Gentile (Israel/Ephraim) and Greeks....under one House. Salvation has come to 'The Nations'.


    Brother Les
    Amen Brother Les! You summed it up well.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    That's how I see it too - to "know" in the "biblcal sense" is connected dircectly with the most intimate of human relations. Adam "knew" his wife when they became "one flesh" and the consequence was new life (like new insight). The Hebrew "to know" is "yado" which is spelt with the letters Yod Dalet Ayin. The first two spell "hand" and the last letter means "eye." So we have both forms of knowing included in this one word - to know "experientially" (touch/hand) and intellectually (eye/vision). It is interesting that this root appears to correspond directly to the Greek word is "eido" or "oida" which is translated as "know" 282 times in the NT. Most scholars connect this with the Sanskrit "veda" (to know) and Latin "vedere" (to see). Only in the Hebrew does this root have the strong emphasis on "experiential" knowledge represented by touch/hand. I have always connected this with the different demands made by the Jews and the Greeks:
    1 Corinthians 1:22-23

    For the Jews require a sign (physical demonstration),
    and the Greeks seek after wisdom (intellectual demonstration):
    But we preach Christ crucified,
    unto the Jews a stumblingblock (physical hinderance),
    and unto the Greeks foolishness (intellectual hinderance);
    But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
    Richard
    Hi guys and Gal,
    Good posts,
    Also I would add to your analysis Richard, "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God."

    Those ARE ISRAEL. Whenever Jacob had a Spiritual experience dream vision etc., his name changed to Israel. This is the True Israel, those circumcised in the heart to the point that their Spiritual Understanding or other Spiritual senses are picking up something. Israel means "Power with God"

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