# Thread: Has God's Signature been found in the Genetic Code

1. Senior Member
Join Date
Jul 2008
Posts
483

## Random Sequences

This brings up an important question. If the data set is so large as to allow a few random "close" hits, how could we be sure that finding the whole sentence would not be just another random event? Merely calculating probabilities would not be convincing because any specified 28 letter string, no matter how arbitrary, is equally improbable.
Hi Richard,

Well, my answer to this question is -

1. A co-incidence with the distribution of ALL letters in Genesis 1, not just the first three, is vanishingly small, so a successful complete hit would be very significant

2. If the conversion from aminoacid codon to alphabet were then applied to the entire genetic code, we would expect it to reveal other areas of language, especially immediately adjacent to the Genesis1 bit.

So really, the location of sequences corresponding to the distribution of the first three letters is only a sign post. It "short-lists" potential sequences, which are then quickly examined for the two conditions mentioned above.

Anyway, I have searched all of Chromosome Y and no further instances have been found. This is partly hindered by the large areas of the Y Chromosome that look like this - "NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN" - "N" signifying an unknown base sequence. The areas of Ns number about 20 million at a rough guess.

Infact here are the exact figures -

Total Length = 6.056104E+07 bases
Unknown = 1.677722E+07 bases
Percentage of unknown sequence = 27.70298%

I used this computer code to get these figures -

Dim TotalLength As Single = TextBox1.Text.Length
Dim Q As Single = 0
Dim CharArray() As Char = TextBox1.Text.ToCharArray()

Dim Letter As Char

For Each Letter In CharArray
If Letter.ToString = "N" Then
Q += 1
End If
Next

TextBox4.Text = "Total Length = " & TotalLength & vbCrLf & _
"Unknown = " & Q & vbCrLf & _
"Percentage = " & Q * 100 / TotalLength & "%"
Last edited by Craig.Paardekooper; 06-23-2012 at 03:38 AM.

2. Originally Posted by Craig.Paardekooper
Hi Richard,

Well, my answer to this question is -

1. A co-incidence with the distribution of ALL letters in Genesis 1, not just the first three, is vanishingly small, so a successful complete hit would be very significant

2. If the conversion from aminoacid codon to alphabet were then applied to the entire genetic code, we would expect it to reveal other areas of language, especially immediately adjacent to the Genesis1 bit.

So really, the location of sequences corresponding to the distribution of the first three letters is only a sign post. It "short-lists" potential sequences, which are then quickly examined for the two conditions mentioned above.

Anyway, I have searched all of Chromosome Y up until the 54,000,000th base and no further instances have been found. This is partly hindered by the large areas of the Y Chromosome that look like this - "NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN" - "N" signifying an unknown base sequence. The areas of Ns number well over 20 million.
Hey there Craig,

I think you missed my point. The probability of any specified string of length 28, such as "Micky Mouse is Lord of the Universe," is identical to any other arbitrary string of length 28. Just because you happen to like Genesis 1:1 doesn't make it special in terms of probability. The a priori probability is identical for all strings of equal length. Think of a deck of cards. The probability of any 5-card hand is identical to every other. Of course, a royal flush makes you feel good, so you would be stunned if one was dealt to you, especially if you were playing in Los Vegas for a 10 million dollar pot. But the probability is the same for each hand.

You would have to find extended codes (per point #2) before you could say anything of any statistical significance.

3. Senior Member
Join Date
Jul 2008
Posts
483
Hi Richard,

As you quite rightly point out, the discovery of a 28 letter sequence matching Genesis, though extremely rare, would only furnish us with a signpost - a "potential" key - for decoding the rest. It's ability to decode the rest would be the big test.

Anyway, I will look at the X Chomosome next. Perhaps the signature for creation will be found there.

4. Senior Member
Join Date
Jul 2008
Posts
483

## Response o Krakers

In 1974 astronomers at the Arecibo observatory in Puerto Rico beamed a radio message toward the Great Cluster in the constellation of Hercules. The message consists of 1679 binary digits, i.e. a series of 1's and 0's. A receiving intelligence is to arrange these 1's and 0's into a matrix of 23 columns by 73 rows and then translate the 1's and 0’s into contrasting dark and light squares. The resulting digital picture is then to be interpreted for meaning. Our astronomers hope that if the message is received by non-earthly intelligences those folks will be able to decipher it and conclude that "intelligent life" exists on the third planet of the star from which the radio beam emanated. Consciously or not our astronomers selected numbers to define the size of the information matrix which will reassure any receivers of the message, who are familiar with Kabbalah’s mathematical methodology known as gematria, that we are indeed "intelligent life", since 73 is the numerical value of the Hebrew word chokmah - חכמה meaning "intelligent" (or “wisdom”, or “science”) and 23 is the numerical value of the Hebrew word chyah - חיה meaning "to live, be alive, exist". (Definitions from Ben-Yehuda’s Hebrew-English Dictionary)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_message

Perhaps this technique, applied to the human genome, would be worth examining.
Here is a site that plays with the idea of messages in DNA.

http://www.arcfn.com/2010_06_01_archive.html
Hi Krakers,

If I understand the gist of your idea - the un-translated bases ACTG may themselves convey a meaning by their relative position. It is an interesting idea. If DNA were meant to be arranged in a particular number of columns, then we should expect that the number of bases in each chromosome would be a multiple of that number of columns.

I remember that Vernon found a similar pattern in Genesis 1 - word values were always a multiple of 37 minus a multiple of 6.

It might be interesting to see what would appear if the amino acid codons were split into 22 columns - would any interesting repeat sequences emerge - particular aminoacid letters occupying each column.

One way to achieve this visually would be to split the DNA into strings each of 22 letters, and arrange the strings ontop of each other. This is quite easy to do in with computer programming.

Dim DNA as String = TextBox1.Text

For n = 0 to DNA.length - 22 step 22

Result &= DNA.Substring(n, 22) & vbcrlf

Next

TextBox2.Text = Result

Perhaps I will test out this idea with some plant DNA and see what happens. Giving each single letter aminoacid a different colour would make any emerging pattern more striking.

Also, it is possible to represent DNA as binary because there are two types of codons - Pyrimidines (codons beginning with T or C) and Purines (codons beginning with A or G). To convert DNA into a sequence of 1s and 0s, I would use this computer code -

Dim DNA as String = TextBox1.Text

For n = 0 to DNA.length - 3 step 3

Letter = DNA.Substring(n, 1)

If Letter = "A" or Letter = "G" Then

Result &= "0"

Else If Letter = "T" or Letter = "C" Then

Result &="1"

End If

Next

TextBox2.Text = Result

Then to represent this as 22 columns I would use this computer code -

Dim BinarySequence as String = Result

For n = 0 to BinarySequence.length - 22 step 22

BinaryRows &= BinarySequence.Substring(n, 22) & vbcrlf

Next

TextBox3.Text = BinaryRows
Last edited by Craig.Paardekooper; 06-22-2012 at 11:30 PM.

5. Originally Posted by Craig.Paardekooper
Hi Richard,

As you quite rightly point out, the discovery of a 28 letter sequence matching Genesis, though extremely rare, would only furnish us with a signpost - a "potential" key - for decoding the rest. It's ability to decode the rest would be the big test.

Anyway, I will look at the X Chomosome next. Perhaps the signature for creation will be found there.
I think Genesis 1:1 is a very good place to start. If you found it, it would give you the correlation for the alphabet which would make looking for words in the rest of the genome much easier.

I'm sure the X Chromosome is where the secret of creation lies. It is the woman's, you know!

6. Senior Member
Join Date
Jul 2008
Posts
483
Here is a site that plays with the idea of messages in DNA.

http://www.arcfn.com/2010_06_01_archive.html
Hi Kraker,

Thanks for posting this link. It is very interesting. The article says that the two methods for decoding DNA are -

1. Searching for an amino acid or codon sequence that matches a known phrase
2. Determining codon frequencies and then matching them to the letter frequencies in a known language

These are the same methods that I have been attempting (dabbling with)

I suppose that if it were possible to split the DNA into words along word boundaries then we could match the highest frequency DNA word with the highest frequency spoken word.
Last edited by Craig.Paardekooper; 06-23-2012 at 02:29 AM.

7. Junior Member
Join Date
May 2012
Posts
7

## Broken Java programs to search DNA for pictures

Dear Craig and Richard,

ftp://www.fourmilab.ch/pub/goldberg/patterns.html

The above site contains Java programs that don't work any more.
They were designed to search selected DNA segments for unknown patterns or pictures.
Perhaps you know how to fix them?

Regards,
Krakers

8. Senior Member
Join Date
Jun 2012
Posts
111

## Can we believe the Bible completely? Part 2

letters in genesis?
Last edited by culi26; 06-24-2012 at 07:20 AM.

9. Senior Member
Join Date
Jul 2008
Posts
483

## Searching the X Chromosome

The X Chromosome is alot bigger than the Y Chromosome, so initially when I tried to search it my computer simply ran out of memory. However I took Richards advice, and decided to read it a character at a time from the file

I used this computer code to count the total number of bases in the X Chromosome, and also count the number of bases that are unknown, and express this as a percentage of the total.

'1. OPENS UP THE X CHROMOSOME FILE ON MY HARD DRIVE

Dim FilePath As String
Dim line As String
Dim Result As String
Dim LetterNumber As Long = 0

OpenFileDialog1.ShowDialog()
If OpenFileDialog1.FileName <> "" Then
FilePath = OpenFileDialog1.FileName
End If

' 2. LOOPS THROUGH THE ENTIRE X CHROMOSOME ONE CHARACTER AT A TIME

Dim intSingleChar As Integer
Dim cSingleChar As String

Dim Known, unknown As Double
' Convert the integer value into a character
cSingleChar = Chr(intSingleChar)

If cSingleChar <> "N" Then
Known += 1
Else
unknown += 1
End If

End While

TextBox4.Text = "known : " & Known & vbCrLf & "Unknown : " & unknown

The results are for the X Chromosome are
Total : 158,375,978 bases
Unknown : 4170000 bases = 2.63%

The results for the Y Chromosome are

Total : 60,561,044
Unknown : 33,720,000 = 55.67%

So more than half the Y Chromosome is unknown - no wonder I could not find the signature there.

Rather than openning up the entire file I created a software program that reads a character and increments a character index by 1. If that index lies within a specific range then the character is appended to the string that wil appear in the output box. This way, I never store the whole file in a variable (which would cause memory to run out). Rather I only store the chunk of DNA that I need to search.

'1. OPENS UP THE X CHROMOSOME FILE ON MY HARD DRIVE

Dim FilePath As String
Dim line As String
Dim Result As String
Dim LetterNumber As Long = 0

OpenFileDialog1.ShowDialog()
If OpenFileDialog1.FileName <> "" Then
FilePath = OpenFileDialog1.FileName
End If

' 2. LOOPS THROUGH THE ENTIRE X CHROMOSOME ONE CHARACTER AT A TIME

Dim intSingleChar As Integer
Dim cSingleChar As String

cSingleChar = Chr(intSingleChar)
LetterNumber += 1
If LetterNumber >= Val(TextBox5.Text) And LetterNumber <= Val(TextBox3.Text) Then
Result &= cSingleChar
ElseIf LetterNumber > Val(TextBox3.Text) Then
Exit While
End If

End While

TextBox1.Text = Result

Genesis 1 v 1 has not been found in the first 3 million bases of the X Chromosome
Last edited by Craig.Paardekooper; 06-26-2012 at 07:19 AM.

10. jce
Senior Member
Join Date
Apr 2010
Location
Mio, Michigan
Posts
367
Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough
That is the KEY to knowledge. We don't have much trouble with confirmation in science. But in religion it's one rare bird.

Your desire to see a unity of Biblical Truth with Reason is admirable. But I think it will require a total reworking of your concept of "Biblical Truth." This is what happened to me. I still have all the evidence I ever had for the truth of the Bible, but I just can't believe what the Bible actually says. I could have retained all the concepts I liked - Jesus as God Incarnate, Love, the Alpha Omega, etc. - and then just made up my own interpretation of all the problematic things. But in so doing I'd just be making up my own religion. I've seen it done a thousand times, and think it is ridiculous. So I just dropped it all as obviously not important since if God really is the author of the Bible, he obviously doesn't care what people believe! Else he would have made himself a little more clear.
Perhaps it is science that will need a reworking. From what limited understanding I have gained, the fundamental dynamics of physics at the quantum level pose a problem to our abilities to fully understand or explain it without the invention of un-verifiable concepts such as string theory or parallel universes. Personally, I should like to know more about it myself but sounds like I will have to wait for further revelation like everyone else.

That's not true at all. I have no "liberty" to believe things that I don't believe!
This may be an accurate statement based on the Biblical Truth in Ephesians 2: 8 & 9; "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not obtainable by the effort of man.

This reveals the fundamental error of Christianity and all dogmatic religions that claim a person can choose what they believe, and are damned if they don't believe the correct dogma.
Or rather... a fundamental truth of Christianity.

Could you "choose" to really believe in Allah? The Tooth Fairy? Santa Clause? Scientology? What makes you think humans are free to believe things they don't believe? That's a contradiction.
Who is Allah? Is that name a reference to the one true God? Does it belong exclusively to Islam? Just asking. The others of course, are the inventions of men and are destined to be exposed as such. Your reply does seem to confirm once again the Truth of Ephesians 2: 8 & 9.

Your contributions are truly excellent my friend.
I too am often humbled at the extent of your knowledge.

John

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)