Google Ads

Google Ads

Bible Wheel Book

Google Ads

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 44
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
    Posts
    13,914
    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Actually which prophets mentioned it? Because most prophets were from before Josiah until Jeremiah. Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi are post Josiah. Refresh my memory but I hardly recall any quote from the Torah from any pre Josiah book. But the New Testament is flooded with quotes.

    Also the uncircumcision in the wilderness probably shows that faith was what God was looking for in Israel. That's interesting. Moses wasn't even careful of himself being circumcised. And God almost killed him. That, I wonder why.
    Isaiah mentions it frequently, and he prophesied about a hundred years before Josiah. And Micah too, he prophesied around the same time, during the reign of Hezekiah.

    It would be an interesting study to trace out the references to the law through the Joshua to Kings. Of course, we know how Joshua begins:
    Joshua 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
    And ends:
    Joshua 24:26 And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God, and took a great stone, and set it up there under an oak, that was by the sanctuary of the LORD.
    And then ... oh my! The word "Torah" does not occur again in any book until a single reference in 1 Kings:
    1 Kings 2:1 Now the days of David drew nigh that he should die; and he charged Solomon his son, saying, 2 I go the way of all the earth: be thou strong therefore, and shew thyself a man; 3 And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself:
    And then it is mentioned a few times in 2 Kings chapters 10, 14, 17, 21 and then it is "found" again in chapter 22:
    2 Kings 22:8 And Hilkiah the high priest said unto Shaphan the scribe, I have found the book of the law in the house of the LORD. And Hilkiah gave the book to Shaphan, and he read it.
    This is just a little too wierd. It's nothing like what I would imagine if God were really guiding his people through their whole history from Judges to Kings! This makes no sense at all.

    As for circumcision - I don't see how God looking for faith would mean that he would overlook the very "sign of the covenant" that he commanded to Abraham.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,969
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Isaiah mentions it frequently, and he prophesied about a hundred years before Josiah. And Micah too, he prophesied around the same time, during the reign of Hezekiah.

    It would be an interesting study to trace out the references to the law through the Joshua to Kings. Of course, we know how Joshua begins:
    Joshua 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
    And ends:
    Joshua 24:26 And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God, and took a great stone, and set it up there under an oak, that was by the sanctuary of the LORD.
    And then ... oh my! The word "Torah" does not occur again in any book until a single reference in 1 Kings:
    1 Kings 2:1 Now the days of David drew nigh that he should die; and he charged Solomon his son, saying, 2 I go the way of all the earth: be thou strong therefore, and shew thyself a man; 3 And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself:
    And then it is mentioned a few times in 2 Kings chapters 10, 14, 17, 21 and then it is "found" again in chapter 22:
    2 Kings 22:8 And Hilkiah the high priest said unto Shaphan the scribe, I have found the book of the law in the house of the LORD. And Hilkiah gave the book to Shaphan, and he read it.
    This is just a little too wierd. It's nothing like what I would imagine if God were really guiding his people through their whole history from Judges to Kings! This makes no sense at all.

    As for circumcision - I don't see how God looking for faith would mean that he would overlook the very "sign of the covenant" that he commanded to Abraham.
    Good point concerning the Law. Maybe it was lost when the temple needed renovation in 2Kings 11. Or maybe it was hidden when there was a war. They say that Jeremiah hid the ark of the covenant before Nebuchadnezzar destroyed the temple.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
    Posts
    13,914
    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Good point concerning the Law. Maybe it was lost when the temple needed renovation in 2Kings 11. Or maybe it was hidden when there was a war. They say that Jeremiah hid the ark of the covenant before Nebuchadnezzar destroyed the temple.
    It seems like it was lost beginning of Judges, since that's the last times it's mentioned before 1 Kings. I don't see how renovating the Temple could lead to its loss.

    This seems to me to be an exceedingly signifcant fact - it justifies the skeptical scholastic argument that the law was written at the time of Josiah, or even Ezra, and then insterted into the history.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,969
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    It seems like it was lost beginning of Judges, since that's the last times it's mentioned before 1 Kings. I don't see how renovating the Temple could lead to its loss.

    This seems to me to be an exceedingly signifcant fact - it justifies the skeptical scholastic argument that the law was written at the time of Josiah, or even Ezra, and then insterted into the history.
    I'm assuming that if a written copy of the law or the bible is not available maybe that's when God reveals himself in dreams and visions. I was asked the how can a tribe in an island believe in God or Jesus when there was no missionary who visited them? But I would wonder if such a thing is possible or is that everyone in the world has heard the gospel?

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
    Posts
    13,914
    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    I'm assuming that if a written copy of the law or the bible is not available maybe that's when God reveals himself in dreams and visions. I was asked the how can a tribe in an island believe in God or Jesus when there was no missionary who visited them? But I would wonder if such a thing is possible or is that everyone in the world has heard the gospel?
    Well, if the Torah was missing for hundreds of years during the history of Israel, why should I think that the God of the Torah was real at all? Doesn't it make more sense to think that the religion was made up at a much later time? Occam's Razor.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,969
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Well, if the Torah was missing for hundreds of years during the history of Israel, why should I think that the God of the Torah was real at all? Doesn't it make more sense to think that the religion was made up at a much later time? Occam's Razor.
    God has his timing. Before showing Egypt great wonders and miracles and the parting of the Red Sea, don't forget, he was silent for 400 years. But he did promise to Abraham that they will serve the Egyptians for the same time period.

    Actually Messiah's "cutting off" was also timed in Daniel for about 400 years (Daniel 9) from the Babylonian captivity (490 years to be precise - minus about 70 years for the timing of the last prophet Malachi who prophesied).

    God wasn't that close to Isaac or Jacob as he was towards Abraham. I think I know why God wasn't as close to Jacob though.

    Just as Jacob tricked his father and robbed the blessing that ought to be given to Esau by wearing goat's hair, he was tricked by his sons thinking Joseph was dead when his sons dipped their brother's coat in a goat's blood. So for the rest of his life until he went and died in Egypt he was in sorrow thinking that his son was dead.

    So Jacob didn't get away from his crimes because he had faith. He had to pay the price. And so God was silent to him concerning Joseph. He spoke to him through Joseph's dream that Joseph was meant to be a ruler.
    Last edited by gilgal; 10-28-2011 at 08:44 PM.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    591
    Well, if the Torah was missing for hundreds of years during the history of Israel, why should I think that the God of the Torah was real at all? Doesn't it make more sense to think that the religion was made up at a much later time? Occam's Razor.
    Hi RAM,

    Your argument is an argument from silence. The absence of a mention of the Book of the Law between Joshua and David does not mean that the Book of the Law did not exist and was not revered. It simply means that the writers of the books between Joshua and David did not feel the need to refer to it in their writings.

    Also, after Solomon the 10 northern tribes split off and created their own religion centred on the captal of Samaria. So they would not be expected to mention the Book of the Law.

    Isiah preached from 741 B.C. onwards - that's about 200 years after the 10 northern tribes split off. He mentions the books of the law often.

    Infact Isaiah relates that in 721B.C. the 10 northern tribes where judged and destroyed by the Assyrians - having existed for 770 years since the exodus - whilst the 2 southern tribes where spared from destruction in 701 B.C. and continued to exist for a further 770 years. So we see the balance of justice - judgement and forgiveness - a literal embodiment of the Law - showing that it is more than just a book - but is the way God shaped Jewish history.

    Anyway, the Bible clearly states that the reason for the Book of the Law being "lost" was because of the mass apostasy of the 2 southern tribes immediately prior to Josiah.

    It should also be recalled that Josiah and his reformations were specifically prophecied about 350 years earlier. Here is a quote from my book - "One God Many Faces" -

    TWO MEN BEFORE THEIR TIME
    Only twice in the whole Bible does God predict the proper name of a person before they
    are born. In both cases God also predicts the specific events surrounding these two
    people, and the specific things they will do. The first name is JOSIAH. The second name
    is that of CYRUS. Both have an interesting connection to the events of the Captivity.

    JOSIAH
    During the reigns of king Saul, king David and king Solomon, Israel was a united
    kingdom. However, after the reign of king Solomon ended (in 977 B.C.) Israel became
    divided into 2 separate kingdoms - the Northern Kingdom with it's capital at Samaria, and
    the Kingdom of Judah with it's capital at Jerusalem. There was a king of the Northern
    Kingdom - named Jeroboam, and a king of the Kingdom of Judah - named Rehoboam.

    Division of the Kingdom After Solomon
    The Northern Kingdom King is Jeroboam Capital at Samaria
    The Kingdom of Judah King is Rehoboam Capital at Jerusalem

    There was still only one religion, the worship of YWHW, and the centre of this religion
    was at the Temple of Jerusalem . However, Jeroboam was worried because he believed
    that if his people continued to worship at Jerusalem they would return to serving
    Rehoboam. So to avoid this Jeroboam set about creating a new religion with a new centre
    of worship - so his people would no longer have to go to Jerusalem.

    So Jeroboam made 2 gold calves, and set one up at Bethel and the other up at Dan. He
    established a new religion with new idols, new shrines, new priests, new festivals. Then a
    prophet from Judah came to the shrine at Bethel while king Jeroboam was worshipping
    there.

    By the word of the LORD a man of God came from Judah to Bethel as Jeroboam
    was standing at the altar to make an offering. The man of God cried out against
    the altar by the word of the LORD:
    "O altar, altar! This is what the LORD says: "A son named Josiah will be born to
    the house of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests of the high places who
    now make offerings here, and human bones will be burnt on you."
    That same day the man of God gave a sign: "This is the sign the LORD has
    declared: the altar will be split apart and the ashes on it will be poured out."
    9
    When king Jeroboam heard what the man of God cried out against the altar at
    Bethel, he stretched out his hand from the altar and said, "Seize him!". But the
    hand he stretched out towards the man shrivelled up, so that he could not pull it
    back. Also the altar was split apart and it's ashes poured out according to the sign
    given by the man of God by the word of the LORD.
    Then the king said to the man of God, "Intercede with the LORD your God and
    pray for me that my hand may be restored." So the man of God interceded with
    the LORD, and the king's hand was restored and became as it was before.
    1 KINGS 13 v 1-6


    This prophecy achieved a remarkable fulfillment 350 years later when for the first time a
    king named JOSIAH became king of Judah. When Josiah was 8 years old he became
    king, and he reigned at Jerusalem for 31 years. In the 18th year of Josiah's reign (622
    B.C.) Josiah's officials discovered the Book of the Law - and Josiah read it and realized
    how much Israel had disobeyed God's laws. He humbled himself before the LORD, and
    became determined to purge Israel of it's idolatry.
    Josiah sent his officials to the prophetess Huldah in Jerusalem to enquire of her what the
    discovery of the Book of the Law meant. She gave them this prophecy -
    "This is what the LORD says: I am going to bring disaster on this place and it's
    people, according to everything written in the Book the king of Judah has read.
    Because they have forsaken me and burned incense to other gods and provoked
    me to anger by all the idols their hands have made, my anger will burn against
    this place and will not be quenched."
    "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel says concerning the words you heard:
    Because your heart was responsive and you humbled yourself before the LORD
    when you heard what I have spoken against this place and it's people, that they
    would become accursed and laid waste, and because you tore your robes and
    wept in my presence, I have heard you declares the LORD. Therefore I will gather
    you to your fathers, and you will be buried in peace. Your eyes will not see all the
    disaster I am going to bring on this place."
    2 KINGS Chapter 22

    King Josiah carried out a complete purge of idolatry both in the Kingdom of Judah and in
    the Northern Kingdom. It was the greatest purge that Israel had ever seen and would ever
    see. He removed all the idols from the Temple of Jerusalem and burned them outside
    Jerusalem. He also destroyed all the "high places" or altars throughout all of Israel where
    worship of the idols took place and slaughtered all the idolatrous priests. At Bethel people
    had been buried near to the altars (buried on holy ground they believed). Josiah dug up
    these bodies and burned them on the altars, thus fulfilling the prophecies made 350 years
    earlier. 2 Kings chapter 23 describes the purge of Josiah.
    Well, if the Torah was missing for hundreds of years during the history of Israel, why should I think that the God of the Torah was real at all? .
    Hundreds of years? Where does it say that? The whole nation had fallen into idolatry - so the book of the law had been discarded - but this may have been only over a single generation. Anyway, the number of years between Isaiah preaching to Hezekiah in 701 B.C. and Josiah in 622 B.C. is only 79 years. So the law was only lost for one generation.

    "Why should I think that the God of the Torah is real atall?" This conclusion simply does not follow logically from the fact that Israel discarded the Book because of idolatry. Faulty logic.

    Infact, God used this very situation to demonstrate that He is real - by prophecying the reformations of Josiah 350 years before their time.
    Last edited by Craig.Paardekooper; 10-29-2011 at 01:45 PM.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,969
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig.Paardekooper View Post
    Hi RAM,

    Your argument is an argument from silence. The absence of a mention of the Book of the Law between Joshua and David does not mean that the Book of the Law did not exist and was not revered. It simply means that the writers of the books between Joshua and David did not feel the need to refer to it in their writings.

    Also, after Solomon the 10 northern tribes split off and created their own religion centred on the captal of Samaria. So they would not be expected to mention the Book of the Law.

    Isiah preached from 741 B.C. onwards - that's about 200 years after the 10 northern tribes split off. He mentions the books of the law often.

    Infact Isaiah relates that in 721B.C. the 10 northern tribes where judged and destroyed by the Assyrians - having existed for 770 years since the exodus - whilst the 2 southern tribes where spared from destruction in 701 B.C. and continued to exist for a further 770 years. So we see the balance of justice - judgement and forgiveness - a literal embodiment of the Law - showing that it is more than just a book - but is the way God shaped Jewish history.

    Anyway, the Bible clearly states that the reason for the Book of the Law being "lost" was because of the mass apostasy of the 2 southern tribes immediately prior to Josiah.

    It should also be recalled that Josiah and his reformations were specifically prophecied about 350 years earlier. Here is a quote from my book - "One God Many Faces" -





    Hundreds of years? Where does it say that? The whole nation had fallen into idolatry - so the book of the law had been discarded - but this may have been only over a single generation. Anyway, the number of years between Isaiah preaching to Hezekiah in 701 B.C. and Josiah in 622 B.C. is only 79 years. So the law was only lost for one generation.

    "Why should I think that the God of the Torah is real atall?" This conclusion simply does not follow logically from the fact that Israel discarded the Book because of idolatry. Faulty logic.

    Infact, God used this very situation to demonstrate that He is real - by prophecying the reformations of Josiah 350 years before their time.
    Good explanation. SO the discovery of the Law showed Josiah to know what to do with the bones of the priests of Baal. And it was prophesied from the beginning of the falling away of Jeroboam and the Northern Kingdom.

    I wonder if they made multiple copies of the Law or could it be that the only Law was in the Ark of The Covenant in the Temple of the LORD.

    But the existence of the prophets, I think was there because the Law wasn't available to the hearers at that moment.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
    Posts
    13,914
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig.Paardekooper View Post
    Hi RAM,

    Your argument is an argument from silence. The absence of a mention of the Book of the Law between Joshua and David does not mean that the Book of the Law did not exist and was not revered. It simply means that the writers of the books between Joshua and David did not feel the need to refer to it in their writings.
    Hey there Craig,

    Glad you dropped in.

    You are correct that it would be an "argument from silence" if I said that the Torah was missing merely because it was not mentioned. But that's not what I said. The reason I looked to see if it was mentioned is because 2 Kings 22:8 says that it had been discovered after being missing for an unstated amount of time. Now you are correct, we don't know how long it was missing. Does it not seem natural then to go looking in the text to see when it was last mentioned? Personally, I was quite surprized to find that the central document that defined the relationship between Isreal and her God was not mentioned once in the history that spanned hundreds of years from Judges up to 1 Kings, and then it is only mentioned once in 1 Kings. This is why I said that the law was "missing" for hundreds of years. It is a fact that it was missing from the text for that period, and the text implies that even the priests didn't know here it was until it was discovered in 2 Kings 22:8. There is a clue in the text that suggests it was missing for at least two generations:
    2 Kings 22:11 And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the book of the law, that he rent his clothes. 12 And the king commanded Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Achbor the son of Michaiah, and Shaphan the scribe, and Asahiah a servant of the king's, saying, 13 Go ye, enquire of the LORD for me, and for the people, and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that is found: for great is the wrath of the LORD that is kindled against us, because our fathers have not hearkened unto the words of this book, to do according unto all that which is written concerning us.
    I think the Christian position would be as you suggest, the Law was lost during the wicked reign of Manasseh. But there is no evidence for this in the text, so it's just an assumption.

    And one other odd point - it was during this time when the law was lost that the Word of the Lord was given through a female prophet!
    2 Kings 22:14 and Asahiah, went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college) and they communed with her. 15 And she said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Tell the man that sent you to me, 16 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:
    Given all these oddities and lacunas, I see no justification for making any assumptions just because they fit your preconceptions of what the history of Israel "should" be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig.Paardekooper View Post
    Anyway, the Bible clearly states that the reason for the Book of the Law being "lost" was because of the mass apostasy of the 2 southern tribes immediately prior to Josiah.
    Where does it say that? And besides, how does that relate to the fact that it was missing from the souther Kingdom of Judah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig.Paardekooper View Post
    Hundreds of years? Where does it say that? The whole nation had fallen into idolatry - so the book of the law had been discarded - but this may have been only over a single generation. Anyway, the number of years between Isaiah preaching to Hezekiah in 701 B.C. and Josiah in 622 B.C. is only 79 years. So the law was only lost for one generation.
    Or three generations if you think of a generation as 20 years. The lifespan of one generation was around 70, but the generations overlap. Think of child, parent, grandparent. That's three generations, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig.Paardekooper View Post
    "Why should I think that the God of the Torah is real atall?" This conclusion simply does not follow logically from the fact that Israel discarded the Book because of idolatry. Faulty logic.
    It is extremely curious that the Torah, the document defining the relation between Israel and God, should be missing from their sacred history for the hundreds of years from Judges to Kings. Therefore, this naturally brings up the question of whether or not the Torah, and hence the god that it proclaims, are real, or if the sacred history was composed before the Law was written (which is the position of many modern scholars). There is no faulty logic in asking that question!

    I think you should be a little more careful with your assertions of "logical fallacies." I'm not a schoolboy so easily intimated. I know both logic and
    the Bible. So let's talk like men with understanding. OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig.Paardekooper View Post
    Infact, God used this very situation to demonstrate that He is real - by prophecying the reformations of Josiah 350 years before their time.
    How do you know that prophecy, and the Torah, were not written after the fact? Do you simpy assume whatever is written is true? If so, how do you justify such an assumption?

    Great chatting!

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,969
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Hey there Craig, :yo:

    Glad you dropped in.

    You are correct that it would be an "argument from silence" if I said that the Torah was missing merely because it was not mentioned. But that's not what I said. The reason I looked to see if it was mentioned is because 2 Kings 22:8 says that it had been discovered after being missing for an unstated amount of time. Now you are correct, we don't know how long it was missing. Does it not seem natural then to go looking in the text to see when it was last mentioned? Personally, I was quite surprized to find that the central document that defined the relationship between Isreal and her God was not mentioned once in the history that spanned hundreds of years from Judges up to 1 Kings, and then it is only mentioned once in 1 Kings. This is why I said that the law was "missing" for hundreds of years. It is a fact that it was missing from the text for that period, and the text implies that even the priests didn't know here it was until it was discovered in 2 Kings 22:8. There is a clue in the text that suggests it was missing for at least two generations:
    2 Kings 22:11 And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the book of the law, that he rent his clothes. 12 And the king commanded Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Achbor the son of Michaiah, and Shaphan the scribe, and Asahiah a servant of the king's, saying, 13 Go ye, enquire of the LORD for me, and for the people, and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that is found: for great is the wrath of the LORD that is kindled against us, because our fathers have not hearkened unto the words of this book, to do according unto all that which is written concerning us.
    I think the Christian position would be as you suggest, the Law was lost during the wicked reign of Manasseh. But there is no evidence for this in the text, so it's just an assumption.

    And one other odd point - it was during this time when the law was lost that the Word of the Lord was given through a female prophet!
    2 Kings 22:14 and Asahiah, went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college) and they communed with her. 15 And she said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Tell the man that sent you to me, 16 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:
    Given all these oddities and lacunas, I see no justification for making any assumptions just because they fit your preconceptions of what the history of Israel "should" be.


    Where does it say that? And besides, how does that relate to the fact that it was missing from the souther Kingdom of Judah?


    Or three generations if you think of a generation as 20 years. The lifespan of one generation was around 70, but the generations overlap. Think of child, parent, grandparent. That's three generations, right?


    It is extremely curious that the Torah, the document defining the relation between Israel and God, should be missing from their sacred history for the hundreds of years from Judges to Kings. Therefore, this naturally brings up the question of whether or not the Torah, and hence the god that it proclaims, are real, or if the sacred history was composed before the Law was written (which is the position of many modern scholars). There is no faulty logic in asking that question!

    I think you should be a little more careful with your assertions of "logical fallacies." I'm not a schoolboy so easily intimated. I know both logic and
    the Bible. So let's talk like men with understanding. OK?


    How do you know that prophecy, and the Torah, were not written after the fact? Do you simpy assume whatever is written is true? If so, how do you justify such an assumption?

    Great chatting!

    Richard
    God holds us responsible according to our knowledge towards him. Just as the sun shines brighter than the moon I think the knowledge we have today is brighter than what we had 400 years back.

    My point is that you would wonder how after an exodus wilderness experience with miracles would follow an abandonment of God in the book of Judges. Could it be that the Law wasn't being read? or it wasn't fully written or available to them? But God dealt with them accordingly.

    Nothing's changed today. Despite the knowledge we've fallen back as well.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •