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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pop View Post
    Hi,

    New here, I am not a full preterist, nor a partial preterist, I'm more on the futurist side of scripture. Since you wanted to hear from others, I believe that Christ will come again.

    Pop
    Thank you so much, Pop and well said and welcome to the forum Good to see new guys around.

    Every Christians believe in the second coming except the Full preterists. If Christ were to come today to the US, all the full preterists in US will pack their bags and leave; not to welcome the Lord but to run away as far as possible because they are too ashamed to see Him coming back with their mistaken belief.

    Many Blessings to you.

  2. #52
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Pop View Post
    Hi,

    New here, I am not a full preterist, nor a partial preterist, I'm more on the futurist side of scripture. Since you wanted to hear from others, I believe that Christ will come again.

    Pop
    Thank you so much, Pop and well said and welcome to the forum Good to see new guys around.

    Every Christians believe in the second coming except the Full preterists. If Christ were to come today to the US, all the full preterists in US will pack their bags and leave; not to welcome the Lord but to run away as far as possible because they are too ashamed to see Him coming back with their mistaken belief.

    Many Blessings to you.
    Easy there big fella!! You don't want to start a war here do you? But I will say, it's very difficult to debate with a Full Preterist. I constantly debate with them and it is like I'm speaking to a brick wall. But I keep trying!

    Be good, Pop
    "For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet." (1 Cor. 15:25).

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pop View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock
    Every Christians believe in the second coming except the Full preterists. If Christ were to come today to the US, all the full preterists in US will pack their bags and leave; not to welcome the Lord but to run away as far as possible because they are too ashamed to see Him coming back with their mistaken belief.
    Easy there big fella!! You don't want to start a war here do you? But I will say, it's very difficult to debate with a Full Preterist. I constantly debate with them and it is like I'm speaking to a brick wall. But I keep trying!

    Be good, Pop
    Hey there Pop,

    Welcome to our forum!



    I agree with Cheow that it is good to have a new member who will challenge Preterism. I hope (and expect) that your experience here will be different than on other forums where you say that you feel like you were "speaking to a brick wall." The top priority of most folks here is to discern what the Bible really teaches regardless of preconceived ideas or pet doctrines. I trust that you are aware that many Pretersists would describe their interactions with futurist using the same "brick wall" metaphor. So let us join together in an effort to destroy any wall that divides Bible believing Christians! The best way to accomplish that is to work together toward the common goal of articulating what the Bible really teaches.

    And I want to thank you for your action as a peacemaker - that is extremely valuable on any forum. But there are no worries. Cheow is an old friend here and it is very unlikely that any of the other seasoned members would take any real offense at his comment despite that fact that it was way out of line and utterly false. It appears to be the product of some of the frustration that often arises from the clash of different views of eschatology which gives folks on both sides the feeling of "speaking to a brick wall." Cheow is not known for persisting in rudeness or unnecessary provocation. I think everyone here sees him as a good friend and valuable member of our community with much to contribute.

    Talk more soon,

    Richard

    PS: I love your avatar!
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock View Post
    Nope, RAM,

    I would like to hear from others first so that you know that it is not my own belief. The second coming of Jesus is basic belief of partial preterist, idealist. futurist and historidst; the reasons are basically the same. As I said again, only full preterists do not believe in the second coming.

    Many Blessings.
    Hey there Cheow,

    As mentioned in the previous posts, I'm not interested in what you think other people believe. I want to know if you have any Biblical basis for your beliefs.

    Your answer sounds like a cop-out. When I first asked you to specify which Scriptures you use as a basis for your belief in a "second grand coming" you cited Hebrews 9:28. I then showed that that verse says nothing about a "second grand coming" that would be visible to the world because it specifically states that Christ would appear a "second time" for "those who are waiting for him" - not for the world. This is confirmed by John 14 in which Christ said He (and the Father and the Holy Spirit) would "come again" to make their dwelling place in believers, but NOT manifest themselves to the world in general. These verses confirm each other, and the Preterist understanding:

    • John 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him [the indwelling of the believers!].
    • Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him [believers!] shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

    The mutual confirmation of these verses is extremely significant, especially in light of the fact that almost all futurists woefully misinterpret Hebrews 9:28 and John 14 as prophecies of a "second coming" that will be visible to the world. There is no excuse for such shoddy exegesis that is directly contradicted by what the Bible really says.

    So let me ask again - do you know of any verses in the Bible that clearly and unambiguously teach a "second grand coming" that will be physically visible to the world? Is this doctrine taught in the Bible or not?

    Thanks for helping me to understand why I should (or should not) believe in that doctrine.

    Many blessings in Christ my friend,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #55
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    Wow, Thanks Richard, that is a very good compliments my friend Thank you so much. So far, I have enjoyed this fellowship in this forum and I must thank Richard for his kind hospitality to me. I really admire Richard not only for his excellent work in this forum in creating the BIble Wheel but also his vast knowledge of the scriptures. And I do leart a lot from this forum. I believe Pop, you will also. I am not looking for a war with preterists, Never, but to understand them in why they behave and interpret scriptures that way and to discover the truth and learn more of the scriptures from their viewpoints.

    Yes, we may debate hard but at the end of the day, we bear no grudges against one another. And if we are worthy to see each other in heaven, we will probably laugh at ourselves looking at "those were the days in the Bible Wheel forum".

    Sorry about the part of preterist running away when they see the Lord coming. It is meant as a humor and not as a sarcastic remark. It reminds me of a joke in which if Jesus were to come to New York today, people will weep and cry in excitement when they see Him coming and they will packed their belongings and drove their cars, not to see and welcome the Lord but to run away from Him as they will be very ashamed to meet Him. Sorry if it sounds offending to anyone.

    Richard, I hesitated to debate with you on the second coming as I am afraid of a long-drawn debate which will end up in circles. It is the prolonged time that I could least afford to spend and I will cite things like Matthew 24 and the separation of the sheep and goats from the typical futurist's point of views to indicate the evidence of second coming. On the other hand, you will cite evidence from your preterist's point of views and we will end up going no where. I have nothing new to offer and I would rather seek the views of others who perhaps they may have better evidences to prove the second coming of Christ.

    Hope you understand.

    MANY BLESSINGS.

  6. #56
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    Maybe we could change the focus somewhat.
    I have asked questions before concerning what we hope for......
    and I received answers like.....world peace......that the brotherhood of man comes into peace...
    but, now.....I'll change it....to what are we waiting for?
    Those of us who look for....the second coming.....are given the answer that He has already come.........in 70 A.D.
    So.....to those who hold this view.....another coming would be a 3rd coming.....something which none of us believe.

    What are we then waiting for?.............the word for waiting is....apekdechomai (#553).

    If you check it out........you will see that Paul used the word 6 times, and the writer of Hebres once.

    Joel
    For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38,39

  7. #57
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    Originally Posted by Pop View Post
    Hi,

    New here, I am not a full preterist, nor a partial preterist, I'm more on the futurist side of scripture. Since you wanted to hear from others, I believe that Christ will come again.

    Pop
    Welcome to the Biblewheel forum. I hope our discussions will be fruitful.

    We are always glad to hear from others of different opinion. No doubt, your addition will contribute to the other Futurist's who are on here.

    You stated on another post that you've been debating Preterist for a long time. I'm interested on what forums you were part of because most Futurist forums often make it difficult for Preterist to debate; but not so here for all branches of eschatology are welcome here, to test their swords.

    I've debated Futurist's on other forums for a long time, but was often banned because of my so called "Hyper-Preterism".

    I started off as a Futurist from childhood, having been taught that a Great Tribulation would occur in the future, the Church would be raptured, and then the earth would be engaged in WWIII, on a global scale.

    During my teen years, I latched on to the Jack Vanimpie belief of eschatology. But after years of tracking his predictions, or guesses, and watching them collapse these past three decades, I realized he was a fraud and not trustworthy.

    I was then introduced to Partial Preterism, and that was my primary mode of belief until about two or three years ago, where I changed over to full preterism.

    Now you believe that Christ will come again, please share scripture which you feel solidifies this expectation. As I'm sure you know, we believe that Jesus kept His promise to the first century Saints, and came for them after removing the Harlot from office, and establishing His kingdom forever; the kingdom that still dominates the entire earth, despite the other religious kingdoms in existence.

    Looking forward to your responses.

    Joe

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by joel View Post
    Maybe we could change the focus somewhat.
    I have asked questions before concerning what we hope for......
    and I received answers like.....world peace......that the brotherhood of man comes into peace...
    but, now.....I'll change it....to what are we waiting for?
    Those of us who look for....the second coming.....are given the answer that He has already come.........in 70 A.D.
    So.....to those who hold this view.....another coming would be a 3rd coming.....something which none of us believe.

    What are we then waiting for?.............the word for waiting is....apekdechomai (#553).

    If you check it out........you will see that Paul used the word 6 times, and the writer of Hebres once.

    Joel
    Hi Joel,

    I think you bring up a great question that we should explore in detail. It is off-topic for this thread, so I made a new thread called What are we waiting for? I ask that anyone who wants to pursue this question to respond there.

    Thanks!

    RAM
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #59
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    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock View Post
    So far, I have enjoyed this fellowship in this forum and I must thank Richard for his kind hospitality to me. I really admire Richard not only for his excellent work in this forum in creating the BIble Wheel but also his vast knowledge of the scriptures.
    Hey Cheow, just one little thing for the sake of accuracy:

    Richard didn't 'create' the Bible Wheel. He just discovered what was already there.

    The Bible Wheel is the alphabetic structure of the Bible. Richard just perceived that it was there all along.

    And of course this is a major finding! It is the Capstone and Seal of the Bible.

  10. #60
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    New Hampshire
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    19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Pop View Post
    Hi,

    New here, I am not a full preterist, nor a partial preterist, I'm more on the futurist side of scripture. Since you wanted to hear from others, I believe that Christ will come again.

    Pop
    Welcome to the Biblewheel forum. I hope our discussions will be fruitful.

    We are always glad to hear from others of different opinion. No doubt, your addition will contribute to the other Futurist's who are on here.

    You stated on another post that you've been debating Preterist for a long time. I'm interested on what forums you were part of because most Futurist forums often make it difficult for Preterist to debate; but not so here for all branches of eschatology are welcome here, to test their swords.

    I've debated Futurist's on other forums for a long time, but was often banned because of my so called "Hyper-Preterism".

    I started off as a Futurist from childhood, having been taught that a Great Tribulation would occur in the future, the Church would be raptured, and then the earth would be engaged in WWIII, on a global scale.

    During my teen years, I latched on to the Jack Vanimpie belief of eschatology. But after years of tracking his predictions, or guesses, and watching them collapse these past three decades, I realized he was a fraud and not trustworthy.

    I was then introduced to Partial Preterism, and that was my primary mode of belief until about two or three years ago, where I changed over to full preterism.

    Now you believe that Christ will come again, please share scripture which you feel solidifies this expectation. As I'm sure you know, we believe that Jesus kept His promise to the first century Saints, and came for them after removing the Harlot from office, and establishing His kingdom forever; the kingdom that still dominates the entire earth, despite the other religious kingdoms in existence.

    Looking forward to your responses.

    Joe
    In answer to my debating full preterists, I am a member of Planetpreterist.com since 2006. There is where I held most of my debates with them. Like this site, they allow different camps to discuss scripture.

    I have found in doing so, that it is best not to just begin a discussion by just throwing out a few scriptures in the "middle" of some context being discussed, but rather start from the beginning. Or rather the thread that holds one's paradigm together. That in my view would be the dating of the book of Revelation. For it is the "glue" that holds one's doctrine (whether preterist or futurist) all together. It connects Exekiel, Daniel, the Olivet Discourse, and the Epistles, with its prophetic passages together with Revelation. This is my feelings on it, would you agree?

    Pop
    "For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet." (1 Cor. 15:25).

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