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  1. #11
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    PRAISE Ha ADONAI ELOHIYM....TESHUVAH, Repent, Find out what you should be doing to be in the secret place of the MOST HIGH , when the tribulation begins on September 11th 2008, 500,000 deaths in San Diego JULY 8th 2008
    Actually, what I do know is that the Great Tribulation happened in the first century. I can prove it.

    Matthew 24
    15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
    Easy points.

    1. When you see the abomination of Desolation, spoken of by the prophet Daniel....

    This, according to Futurists, is yet to come. However, that is highly impossible because Luke describes the same event in this way:

    Luke 21:20
    20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
    So you see? Luke's "surrounding of Jerusalem" is Matthews reference to Daniel's "Abomination of Desolation". This was fulfilled in 70AD.

    2. The Tribulation happened in Judea and Jerusalem. Christ explicitly tells them (The Apostles) to feel Judea when they saw the armies of Jerusalem (Abomination of Desolation) surrounding Jerusalem. Thus, your mistaken idea of the Great Tribulation happening in San Diego is WAY off the mark....not even close. You're sadly more than 2000 years late. And trust me, if you or I were around in their day, we'd certainly think the world was coming to an end.

    3. This Tribulation is never to be equaled or likened again. Now I know thousands of Futurists try comparing the number of European Jews who died at the hands of Adolph Hitler to that of the first century Romans. But the mistake in this is that the Tribulation wasn't about numbers, but type. Josephus records more than a million Jews died by famine, starvation, pestilence, disease, or cannibalism. And cannibalism was the clue that Christ mentioned to the women who bore children. He testifies to this even further on the cross, as the women weeped for Him. Yet He says:

    “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, wombs that never bore, and breasts which never nursed!’
    ......cannibalism my friends! Absolute horror!

    4. One final point. After Jesus said to the women not to weep for Him as I indicated above, he also said this:

    30 Then they will begin ‘to say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!”’ 31 For if they do these things in the green wood, what will be done in the dry?”
    This phrase is repeated in Revelation 6:

    15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
    In conclusion, the Great Tribulation happened in the first century, as testified by the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple and the very words of our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Messiah. Furthermore, Christ proves to use that the Great Tribulation is the Day of Wrath. And when that wrath had come, they would say to the mountains, "Fall on us" and "Hide us". This is a figure of speech or metaphor for the people crying to the government (Mountains) to protect them from the wrath of God. God used the Romans to accomplish His purpose in destroying and punishing apostate Israel. Lastly, this is exemplified in Revelation chapter 6, proving without doubt that Revelation was about the destruction of Jerusalem, the Beastly Roman Empire, and how all of this ties in with Christ as King. Although the Roman Empire appeared victorious in many ways, by destroying the apostate Jews and killing thousands of Christians, in time it was they (The Romans) which were being delivered into the mighty hands of Christ. Actually, they (The Romans) were under the control of Christ the entire time. For HE is King!

    The Great Tribulation is done Watchman. I'd pay more attention to the context and not the numerator.

    Joe
    Last edited by TheForgiven; 04-13-2008 at 05:41 PM.

  2. #12

    Teshuvah Teshuvah Teshuvah

    YAH MAZING NEW REVELATIONS IN ENGLISH GEMATRIA> IN Daniel we are told that the BOOK is Sealed until the time of the end... YAHUWAH has used the English translation of the King James Version to unlock the scripures. HE is ALOT Smarter than we are and with HIM NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE!!! HE knew what language would be used the most world wide in our day. He orchestrated it. (just consider aviation, all in English) www.onehundredfortyfour.blogspot.com Idolatry is putting God in a box and say ing HE can do this but not that, a god after our own heart... THE PROOF is beyond doubt if your Truly Truly honest and seeking: Baruch atah ADONAI YESHUA HA MASHIYACH MELECH HA ALOM
    Shalom
    Katriel
    Last edited by Watchman232; 04-16-2008 at 02:44 AM.

  3. #13
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    YAH MAZING NEW REVELATIONS IN ENGLISH GEMATRIA> IN Daniel we are told that the BOOK is Sealed until the time of the end... YAHUWAH has used the English translation of the King James Version to unlock the scripures. HE is ALOT Smarter than we are and with HIM NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE!!! HE knew what language would be used the most world wide in our day. He orchestrated it. (just consider aviation, all in English)
    Yes my friend, God is a lot smarter than us. That's why if He wrote the Bible Himself, there would be no translation problems for anyone. However, man wrote under His (God's) inspiration. But humans are not perfect. And the King James Bible is far less than pefect, with the most errors I'd say. I personally use the New King James Version because it seeks to correct many of the 1611 King James Version. Therefore, I would not even come close to saying that God used the 1611 King James version to reveal His truths; that Bible is not efficient because of its ancient language. If anything, the original New Testament was written in Greek, and the Old Testament was written in Hebrew. English has nothing to do with either of them, for English is just another translation from the multiple and unmatched text the copiers use.

    DANIEL: SEALED UNTIL THE TIME OF THE END

    The time of the end to Daniel was about 500 or so years. Daniel is told to "SEAL" the words until the time of the end. Yet John was told "NOT TO SEAL" the words because the time was near. Thus, about a 500 year difference. If Daniel's "Future" is John's "Present" as indicated by scripture, then the time of the end has long been fulfilled. And the "end" came in 70AD, Daniel's people and city were killed/destroyed. See Matthew 24.

    www.onehundredfortyfour.blogspot.com Idolatry is putting God in a box and say ing HE can do this but not that, a god after our own heart... THE PROOF is beyond doubt if your Truly Truly honest and seeking: Baruch atah ADONAI YESHUA HA MASHIYACH MELECH HA ALOM
    Shalom
    Katriel
    Who puts God in a box? Is it not those who say that God never accomplishes anything, to anyone, unless they actually see it? Or is God about Faith? God is not about sight, but Faith, and Faith, as we know, is about the things we believe of which we do not see. Preterist believe, even though we do not see, because we seek to understand without relying on our eyes.

    Remember Thomas, who would not believe unless he physically thrusts his fingers into the wounds of the Lord? That is how Futurist are; they will not believe anything is fulfilled unless someone writes it down for them, or they themselves witness Jesus surfing the clouds.

    Joe
    Last edited by TheForgiven; 04-16-2008 at 07:53 AM.

  4. #14

    Shema YISRAEL

    THE BOOK IS UNSEALED BEYOND ANY DOUBT.. www.onehundredfortyfour.blogspot.com

  5. #15
    Join Date
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    Hey I think I saw watchman the other day on the street corner wearing a sandwich board telling people: "The end is near!! The end is near!!"

    Matt. 16:27, 28, For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to His deeds. "Truly I say to you, there are some who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
    Matt.24:34 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."
    Rom. 13:12, “The night is nearly over; the day is almost here.”
    Rom. 16:20, “The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.”
    I Cor. 7:29 and 31, “The time is short. This world in its present form is passing away.”
    I Cor. 10:11, “These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.”
    Hebrews 10:37, “In just a very little while, He who is coming will come and will not delay.”
    James 5:7-9, “Be patient until the Lord’s coming. The Lord’s coming is near.“The judge is standing at the door.”
    I Peter 4:7, “The end of all things has drawn near.”
    I John 2:18, "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
    Rev. 22:6, 7, "And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; ... the things which must soon take place. "And behold, I am coming quickly....
    Rev. 22:10, 12, And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.


    Strange that he would repeat exactly what Jesus and all the apostles taught. Only one could be right. Who do you think it is?????

    Continuing with all this nonsense only helps unsuspecting readers classify Christianity as a kook religion. We have enough false teachers parading around disguised as true Christian leaders like Benny Hinn, John Hagee, Jack Van Impe, Harold Camping, and many others. It's a sad thing.
    Last edited by basilfo; 04-19-2008 at 04:44 AM.

  6. #16
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    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by basilfo View Post
    Hey I think I saw watchman the other day on the street corner wearing a sandwich board telling people: "The end is near!! The end is near!!"

    Matt. 16:27, 28, For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to His deeds. "Truly I say to you, there are some who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
    Matt.24:34 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."
    Rom. 13:12, 'The night is nearly over; the day is almost here.'
    Rom. 16:20, 'The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.'
    I Cor. 7:29 and 31, 'The time is short. This world in its present form is passing away.'
    I Cor. 10:11, 'These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.'
    Hebrews 10:37, 'In just a very little while, He who is coming will come and will not delay.'
    James 5:7-9, 'Be patient until the Lordís coming. The Lordís coming is near.'The judge is standing at the door.'
    I Peter 4:7, 'The end of all things has drawn near.'
    I John 2:18, "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
    Rev. 22:6, 7, "And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; ... the things which must soon take place. "And behold, I am coming quickly....
    Rev. 22:10, 12, And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.


    Strange that he would repeat exactly what Jesus and all the apostles taught. Only one could be right. Who do you think it is?????

    Continuing with all this nonsense only helps unsuspecting readers classify Christianity as a kook religion. We have enough false teachers parading around disguised as true Christian leaders like Benny Hinn, John Hagee, Jack Van Impe, Harold Camping, and many others. It's a sad thing.
    Yep, the verses you quoted show that the plain text of the Bible unambiguous teaches that the end was in the first century. But even if folks misunderstood that, it astounds me that they could think that obscure number patterns that they can not even explain could be interpreted as predicting the date of the end. I'm just glad that watchman232 will know the faslehood of his claims in just a few months, unlike Haarold Camping who went on for years predicting the end in 1994. Of course, there is no reason to think a failed date will teach watchman anything, since date-setters seem to have a built-in aversion to contrary evidence. In the case of Camping, he claims that his date of 1994 was perfectly accurate, but that he missed the intepretation slightly - it wasn't the end of the world, it the end of the church age and the beginning of the Great Tribulation!

    You know someone is in a very deep pit when direct, incontrovertible, plain and obvious evidence fails to convince. It's a good thing that Christ came to save those who were in such a pit, which includes all of us, of course.

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Hello all,

    I think I solved my computer problems. It seems the Microsoft Office 2003 version was causing problems. I purchased the Office 2007, and now all the security patches are updated. Everything is working like a charm.

    Now, back to business.

    I always enjoy when brother Dave quotes all of the time statements. It's a stern reminder to Preterist of how true and correct our interpretations are. It also shows that we do not have to twist the meaning of certain words in order to force-fit our eschatology. We also interpret wisely when we identify certain passages to be metaphorically expressed. Visions, as we all know, are mostly metaphoric expressions explaining either an event to pass, or an event which is taking place. I think that's why many futurist have such a difficult time interpreting prophesy; they look too much at the word and not the thought.

    Great job Dave, and thanks for the Gentry link; I've got a lot of reading to do.

    Brother Joe

    Nice to be with you all again.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    537
    Hi Joseph,
    Always good to 'hear' from you. Gentry's book 'Before Jerusalem Fell' is terrific. But it's not a quick read, so be ready to dig in. I learned quite a bit and am convinced Rev was written with 70AD in John's future, not the rear view mirror.

    I never hear a good answer from any 'late-daters' (those who believe Rev was written in 95AD) on what 'events must shortly take place' (Rev 1:1). What events SHORTLY AFTER 95 AD took place that bear any resemblance to the contents of Rev?

    On the other hand, the events of 70AD can be seen so clearly in John's vision. But you have to understand the context of the OD and Daniel first. If you take Rev alone, you wind up with the fantastic interp's that we see all over the place today. It's a shame.

    Peace to you all,
    Dave

    (Harold Camping has another date lined up Joseph - it's May 2011. That's the 'end of time'. Can't wait to tune him in that summer.)

  9. #19

    SHEMA O YISRAEL

    THUS SAYS YAHUWAH ELOHIYM www.onehundredfortyfour.blogspot.com

  10. #20

    Kings 11:11 www.Onehundredfortyfour.blogspot.com

    THUS SAYS THE LORD GOD www.Onehundredfortyfour.blogspot.com

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