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  1. #1
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    Anti Woman Quotes by Church Fathers

    Here is a list of quotes I have gathered from various works written by prominent Christian men over the centuries. After reading these quotes any woman who still holds these men in high regard needs to examine her thinking. Can you imagine what would happen if a politician in our day and age made a statement like these men made? They would be soundly rejected!



    Anti woman quotes by Church Fathers:
    "If [women] become tired or even die, that does not matter. Let them die in childbirth--that is why they are there."
    -- Martin Luther

    "The word and works of God is quite clear, that women were made either to be wives or prostitutes." -- Luther

    "God created Adam master and lord of living creatures, but Eve spoilt all, when she persuaded him to set himself above God's will. 'Tis you women, with your tricks and artifices, that lead men into error." --Luther

    "Men have broad and large chests, and small narrow hips, and more understanding than women, who have but small and narrow breasts, and broad hips, to the end they should remain at home, sit still, keep house, and bear and bring up children." -- Luther

    "No gown worse becomes a woman than the desire to be wise." --Luther


    "What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman... I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children."
    -- Saint Augustine of Hippo, Church Father, Bishop of Hippo Regius, 354 – 430

    As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence.
    -- Thomas Aquinas, Saint, Doctor of the Church, 13th century

    Woman is a misbegotten man and has a faulty and defective nature in comparison to his. Therefore she is unsure in herself. What she cannot get, she seeks to obtain through lying and diabolical deceptions. And so, to put it briefly, one must be on one's guard with every woman, as if she were a poisonous snake and the horned devil. ... Thus in evil and perverse doings woman is cleverer, that is, slyer, than man. Her feelings drive woman toward every evil, just as reason impels man toward all good.
    -- St. Albertus Magnus, Dominican theologian and Doctor of the Church, 13th century

    In pain shall you bring forth children, woman, and you shall turn to your husband and he shall rule over you. And do you not know that you are Eve? God’s sentence hangs still over all your sex and His punishment weighs down upon you. You are the devil’s gateway; you are she who first violated the forbidden tree and broke the law of God. It was you who coaxed your way around him whom the devil had not the force to attack. With what ease you shattered that image of God: Man! Because of the death you merited, even the Son of God had to die... Woman, you are the gate to hell.
    -- Tertullian, 2nd-3rd century Churchfather

    Clement of Alexandria (150?-215?): "Every woman should be filled with shame by the thought that she is a woman."

    Clement (of Alexandria) excludes...intercourse with a...pregnant, barren, or menopausal wife and for that matter, with one’s wife ‘in the morning,’ ‘in the daytime,’ or ‘after dinner.’ Clement warns, indeed, that ‘not even at night, although in darkness, is it fitting to carry on immodestly or indecently, but with modesty, so that whatever happens, happens in the light of reason...’ for even that union ‘which is legitimate is still dangerous, except in so far as it is engaged in procreation of children. "

    Tertullian (160?-220?): "Woman is a temple built over a sewer, the gateway to the devil. Woman, you are the devil's doorway. You led astray one whom the devil would not dare attack directly. It was your fault that the Son of God had to die; you should always go in mourning and rags."

    Augustine (354-430): "Woman was merely man's helpmate, a function which pertains to her alone. She is not the image of God but as far as man is concerned, he is by himself the image of God."

    John Wesley (1703-91): "Wife: Be content to be insignificant. What loss would it be to God or man had you never been born."

    Jerome (345?-420): "If it is good for a man not to touch a woman, then it is bad for him to touch one, for bad, and bad only, is the opposite of good."

    John Chrysostom (349-407): "Amongst all the savage beasts none is found so harmful as woman."

    John Calvin (1509-64): "Thus the woman, who had perversely exceeded her proper bounds, is forced back to her own position. She had, indeed, previously been subject to her husband, but that was a liberal and gentle subjection; now, however, she is cast into servitude."
    Last edited by Rose; 09-14-2012 at 09:02 PM.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
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  2. #2
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    RAM ranted about my quote mining and now his wife is quote-mining without any opposition from him. Sounds like blatant favoritism. These are RAM's exact words:

    The problem with quote mining is that the quotes are usually taken out of context, and often mean the opposite of what the quote miner says they mean. The quotes are deceptive because they give the impression that the scientists are supporting the creationist ideas when in fact those scientists do not.
    Likewise, I can easily quote Anti-Man quotes from the internet. That may make Rose feels better . As RAM says quote mining is absurd, opposite and deceptive and make a fool out of you. Quote mining must comes with the context and most of them are personal issues or opinions.

    God Bless.
    Last edited by CWH; 09-14-2012 at 08:19 PM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    RAM ranted about my quote mining and now his wife is quote-mining without any opposition from him. Sounds like blatant favoritism. These are RAM's exact words:



    Likewise, I can easily quote Anti-Man quotes from the internet. That may make Rose feels better . As RAM says quote mining is absurd, opposite and deceptive and make a fool out of you. Quote mining must comes with the context and most of them are personal issues or opinions.

    God Bless.
    As usual Cheow you have completely twisted what Richard said to you and applied it to the quotes I posted. Every one of the quotes I presented represents exactly what these men said and felt about women. These Church Fathers are open and direct about their misogynistic, anti-woman sentiments, so I am not taking them out of context as you have done with many of your quotes that Richard has called you on.

    Go ahead and look up each of the quotes I presented, and you will find that each one is representative of their individual beliefs, in the same manner as the Bible is filled with male bias written down as being inspired from god. I'm sure you can find lots of anti-man quotes on the internet, but none of them will be found in writings by the Church Fathers, who were for the most part totally anti-woman, because they blamed "original sin" on the woman. By the way the term "original sin" was coined by Tertullian and promoted by Augustine...all done in an attempt to put all the blame for their lust onto the woman. If Jesus and Paul hadn't made sexual desire out to be a bad thing, men would not have needed to make women into their scapegoats. Instead men and women could have enjoyed the sexual pleasure of one another, without making it out to be an evil carnal desire to be avoided. Jesus and Paul set celibacy up as the highest standard to attain, relegating all sexual desires to a much lesser place in god's kingdom, hence women got blamed for causing men's lusts.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Last edited by Rose; 09-14-2012 at 09:49 PM.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  4. #4
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    Misogyny, the Church Fathers & Christianity

    Here is another excellent article found here that I have re-posted below. It's long and the formatting is bad, but it's well worth the read.




    Misogyny and anti-feminism are embedded strains of conflict interwoven
    throughout the history of Western Civilization originating in the pagan roots
    that corrupted the pure teachings of Christ, thus bringing this ancient pattern of
    oppression into what has become the syncretic system of belief and practice with
    the appellation of Christianity. "Inspired by the vision of a celibate Christ,
    preoccupied with the notion of original sin and the subsequent curse of
    concupiscence transmitted to Adam’s progeny, which was dealt on in detail by
    Augustine, Tertullian, and other patristic writers, Christianity produced a
    remarkable catalogue of exploits against the demons of lust" (Winter xxv).
    The patristic writers of the church often represented this demon of lust as
    woman. Medieval clerics, and their predecessors extending through the Church
    Fathers, finding much of their basis in Paul, were markedly anti-feminist,
    and in reality, misogynist. "For clerics, Eve was the archetypal human woman
    whose gluttony and pride caused man to be driven out of heaven" ( Beidler, Peter G. (ed.) The Wife of Bath: Geoffrey Chaucer. Pg 68).

    The religion which bears the name of Christianity, which bears little,
    if any, resemblance to the teachings of the humble Jewish prophet born of Mary,
    has an extensive history of interpretation, reinterpretation, and schism over even
    its most essential theological aspects. The disciples of Christ were known to
    pray in a synagogue in Jerusalem and to keep the Jewish law, and were true
    monotheists, believing in God’s Absolute Oneness. There were several names
    for early monotheistic Semitic Christians; the most common being Ebionites.
    It is only with the "apostle" Paul, Roman citizen and native of the city of Tarsus,
    a known center of the cult of Mithras, a former persecutor of Christians who
    never physically met Christ, and later innovators that one gets many of the ideas
    which became "Christian" theology and practice. This is one of the reasons that
    many scholars and philosophers throughout time, including Nietzsche, have
    called Paul "the second founder of Christianity." Even within the strain of
    Christianity influenced by Paul, heretical arguments from monotheists such as
    the Arians aside, it was not until the fourth or fifth century that many of the
    "essential" issues of Christianity were decided upon within what eventually
    became the Roman Catholic church. Claiming that many of these issues were
    determined even by the fifth century is slightly misleading, as the title "Fathers
    of the Church," is given to those writers who established Christian doctrine
    before the eighth century. The "Doctors of the Church" include the four Western
    Fathers: Ambrose, Augustine, Pope Gregory I, and Jerome. The Western Fathers
    are Athanasius, Basil, John Chrysostom, and Gregory of Nazianzus. The earlier
    Eastern fathers include Clement of Alexandria, St. Justin Martyr, and Origen,
    while Tertullian is sometimes included as an "earlier Western Father."

    Christianity, extending back to the early fathers, emphasized the superiority of virginity over marriage, and chastity in marriage to sexual activity. In the writings of the early Church Fathers, sex and sexuality were seen as evil, by their nature, and within a male-centered world view, the inability of these men to deal with their sexual desire was projected upon all women in the painted image of her as insatiable sexually, and thus the epitome of evil. Thus, there are many writings which contain misogynist aphorisms, anecdotes, parables, and confessions within the canon of early patristic writings.

    One of the most concise discussions of the role of women in Christian
    history is to be found in Mace’s Marriage Between East and West: "It would be
    hard to find anywhere a collection of more degrading references to the female
    sex than the early Church Fathers provide. Lecky, the famous historian speaks
    of these fierce incentives which form so conspicuous and so grotesque a portion
    of the writings of the Fathers...’woman was represented as the door of hell, as the mother of all human ills. She should be ashamed at the very thought that she is a woman. She should live in continual penance on account of the curses she has brought upon the world. She should be ashamed of her dress, for it is the memorial of her fall. She should be especially ashamed of her beauty, for it is the most potent instrument of the devil" (Mace, 80).
    Important examples of misogynist rhetoric can be found in the writings of Jerome and Tertullian. In Letter 22 to Eustochium, chapter 22, Jerome recommends to the reader, that if he wants to know how free a virgin is from "many vexations" as opposed to the wife, who is "bound," to read Tertullian’s work "To a Philosopher Friend" and his other treatises on virginity, as well as several other works by other Christian authors. It is interesting that Jerome recommends Tertullian, a second century theologian who actually coined the phrase "original sin." "Original sin" is the idea, foreign to the Bible itself, that the taint of sin transmitted from generation to generation by the act of procreation. In addition, St. Augustine extensively promoted ultimate misogynist idea of "original sin" in fourth century in his extensive theological works. Tertullian was a true misogynist Christian, and many of his works are still accepted as orthodox by the Roman Catholic church and included in the recognized body of patristic literature. Tertullian addresses womenkind on behalf of Christianity in the following excerpt from one of his writings: "Do you know that you are each an Eve? The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessity live too. You are the devil’s gateway: you are the unsealer of that forbidden tree; you are the first deserters of the divine law; you are she who persuades him whom the devil was not valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God’s image, man. On account of your desert-that is death-even the Son of God had to die" (Mace, 80-81).
    It is because of theological doctrine and its exegesis by men like Tertulian
    that women in Western Civilization since these doctrines’ adoption, have been oppressed.

    MARRIAGE
    "He who is unmarried is concerned with the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord. Whereas he who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife. And the unmarried woman, or the virgin, is set apart. She who is unmarried thinks about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy in body and in spirit. Whereas she who is married thinks about the things of the world, how she may please her husband" (1 Cor. 7-9). Paul states that people who married did not necessarily commit sin, but would have "tribulation of the flesh" in their marital bonds. Marriage would cause sexual temptations to arise, according to traditional Christian exegetes, and it would take away one from the duties one owes to God. In Letter 22 to Eustochium, chapter 22, Jerome states "I will say now that the Apostle bids us pray without ceasing, and that one who lives up to his obligations in the married state cannot so pray; we either pray continually and are virgins, or we cease to pray in order to be obedient to our marriage vows. ‘And if a virgin marry...she does not sin, nevertheless, she shall have tribulation of the flesh" (1 Cor. 7:28) (Mierow 155).

    Sex was looked down upon by Jerome and others of his authority , even
    for procreation. Unlike the Judaic tradition, with its basis in the Prophets and
    the Torah, Christianity did not have an example for marriage in Jesus, who was
    celibate. "In original Christianity, there is no place for marriage"
    (Izetbegovic,
    262). Jesus’ example in the scriptures is one of absolute chastity and celibacy,
    and he commands this unto his followers in the book of Mark: "You were told
    not to commit adultery, and I say unto you: ‘Everyone of you who looks at a
    woman with desire has already committed adultery in his heart" (Mark 5:27-
    28). In order to live according to the words, and more importantly, the personal
    example of Jesus, as represented by the "New Testament," one must live in
    complete chastity. Many of the Early Christians, such as Epiphanius, believed
    that "virginity was the foundation of the church," or even that virgins alone
    could reclaim that angelic state by which man becomes worthy of Heaven
    (Winter xxv). "By the sixth century, most notably in Eastern Christianity, the
    Church had settled into a set of moral teachings which expected virginity from
    all men and women with a higher vocation, tolerating marriage only for less
    gifted believers" (Winters xxv).

    "In general, Christianity looks at marriage as a necessary evil, as an
    unavoidable reduction of perfection [which was virginity/chastity]...’It is good
    for a man not to touch a woman, but to avoid prostitution, man should have
    woman, and a woman a man’ (Corinthians 1-2). In this epistle, we feel the clear
    Christian principles weakening and moving closer to reality. It is a kind of
    compromise. From the Christian point of view, marriage is not a solution based
    on principle, but one forced by practice (‘...to avoid prostitution’-St. Paul)"
    (Izetbegovic, 263). Jerome, in the same arguments advanced by Augustine, does
    not say that the Church condemns the institution of marriage, but that it
    "subordinates and regulates it. The Church knows that in any great house there
    are vessels not only of gold and silver, but also of clay and wood" (Beidler, 22).

    There are many further interesting misogynist references in Jerome’s treatise of C.E. 393 "Adversus Jovinianum,"or ‘against Jovinianum.’ "Adversus Jovinianum" was a refutation of a ‘heretical’ individual who had wrote in the fourth century "certain opinions
    about virginity and marriage, food and eating, baptism, the nature of sin, and the rewards and punishments of the
    afterlife" (Beidler 20). One of the many discussions of the comparison between virginity and marriage is to be found in Jerome’s "Adversus Jovianum." The analogy of wheaten bread to chastity, and barley bread to marriage is a reference to Jerome 7. Here, Jerome states that, "Paul says to the unmarried and the widows that it is good for them to remain chaste, but if they cannot do so then it is better for them to marry than to burn. Paul means that wheaten bread is better than barley bread, but for those who cannot achieve the wheaten, then eating the barley is better than eating excrement...It is clear that chastity is the highest virtue, but for people who cannot live chastely, marriage is better than undisciplined fornication" (Beidler 21).
    Jerome cites Paul’s saying of wives that" If the husband be dead, she
    is free to be married to whom she will," as meaning that she is free to choose
    this, though this choice is not preferred. In arguing against remarriage after
    being widowed, Jerome compares such a marriage to prostitution, and refers to
    the sexual relationship in the institution of marriage as "filth." "Surely it is
    better voluntarily to embrace chastity than to return to the filth of marriage. To
    be sure, Paul said that second and even more marriages are permitted to a
    widow, but that is only because it is better for a woman who cannot or will not
    remain chaste to prostitute herself to one man than to many" (Beidler 22).
    Jerome states in no uncertain terms, that for a Christian, "chastity is alway
    preferable to the marriage state. That is why we say that, while marriage fills
    the earth, virginity and chastity fill paradise" (Beidler 22).

    I have already quoted Izetbegovic as asserting that the Gospel of Mark contains evidence to this effect, as well as the personal example of Jesus. But Christianity does not have historical integrity so that one can easily make such a linear appeal to the scriptures. I have already mentioned Paul’s Epistle to the Corinthians, where he refers to the issues of marriage and virginity. Jerome compares being chaste to aspiring to be angels, and any type of sexuality to
    falling to the level of the beasts. Essentially, his statements epitomize the
    dichotomy between religion and science that is the legacy of the Christian West
    in his arguments against any kind of biological need for human sexuality.
    Jovinian’s argument that the human race would die out if Jerome’s beloved
    principle of chastity was truly implemented on a massive scale has some logical
    merit. Jerome calls Jovinian’s argument "absurd," but it is really his own
    argument that seems absurd. "We are all called to virginity, but few will choose
    it, and it is clear that there are plenty of wailing infants in the world" (Beidler
    22).

    Jerome speaks at length of the merit of virginity in his writings.
    Though Jerome’s arguments may seem intimidating, they are illogical.
    Jerome says in reference to virginity; "Many are called, but few are chosen."
    Now, this should be a bit frightening for a Christian, in that he is comparing
    chastity to salvation as an allusion to scripture. Jerome also says, "There is no
    question that the Lord loves virgins more than others. They have chosen
    willingly in a way that was merely recommended, not commanded, and their
    free choice makes them superior" (Beidler 21). In a parallel to Tertullian’s earlier
    comments on the fallen nature of women, sexuality, and thus marriage, Jerome
    states: "Eve was a virgin in Paradise...Paradise is where you belong...And that
    you may know that virginity is natural and that marriage came after the
    offense..." (Mierow 151). Essentially, in Christianity, theological positions have
    been imposed upon and thus obscure the original meaning and texts of
    scripture, thus questions and arguments, may have some logical merit
    but the deviance of Christian theology has been so great as to not allow true
    discussion of the coherence of this theology or of the entire Bible as "revelation."
    Of course, the integrity of the Bible as a text of pure "revelation" has been called
    into question for a long time.

    The natural idea that the sexual organs and the sexual relationship
    within marriage are to be enjoyed would in traditional Christianity largely be looked at as impious at the very least, and probably as a sinful deviation from "true" Christian morality. "For the body was of the devil," and, as Gregory of Nyssa stated in "On Virginity," ‘if the life which is promised to the just by the Lord after the resurrection is similar to that of angels-and release from marriage is a peculiar characteristic of the angelic nature-he [the virgin] has already received some of the beauties of the promise"(Fuchs, 100).

    In comparing the virgin woman to the married, Jerome advises, in his
    "Letter to Eustochium," Chapter 18, it becomes obvious that the only woman
    who is free from some of the corruption of her gender is the one who becomes
    asexual through chastity in aspiration to emulate the angels. "When God says to
    Eve, ‘In pain and in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children,’ say to yourself, ‘That
    is a law for a married woman, not for me.’ And when he continues, ‘Thy desire
    shall be to thy husband,’ say again, ‘Let her desire be to her husband who has
    not Christ for her spouse.’ And when, last of all, he says, ‘Thou shalt surely die,’
    once more, say, ‘Marriage indeed must end in death; but the life on which I have
    resolved is independent of sex. Let those who are wives keep the place and the
    time that properly belong to them. For me, virginity is consecrated in the
    persons of Mary and of Christ" (Brady 165).

    In Chapter 23 of Augustine’s treatise on Holy Virginity, he states: "When
    He [Jesus] proclaimed in a divine and terrifying manner that spouses must not
    separate except because of fornication, the disciples said to Him: ‘If the case of a
    man with his wife is so, it is not expedient to marry!’ And He replied: ‘Not all
    accept this teaching... For there are eunuchs who were born so from their
    mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves so for the
    kingdom of heaven’s sake’ (Matthew 19.10-12) (Wilcox, 167-8). Augustine
    explains in the next chapter that Jesus did not mean "eunuchs" in the manner of
    the eunuchs of the kings and wealthy. Perhaps his arguments were meant to
    undermine the recurrent trend of castration in the Christian church by those who
    took these verses literally, such as Origen, one of the Church Fathers of the
    Eastern Church, who is paradoxically known for his emphasis on allegorical
    reading of the scriptures. "In Christianity, there has always existed a tendency
    toward castration. Origen performed castration on himself to purify his
    body....The Church only forbade castration at the end of the nineteenth century"
    (Izetbegovic 263). Mutilation of the "organs of generation" is the ultimate
    physical step towards the condemnation of sexuality, and was common in
    several pagan religions that existed in the Greco-Roman world. Castration
    essentially shows the violent nature of the repressed sexual drive, which is
    outwardly expressed in the ideologies of misogyny in the Christian church,
    inwardly expressed as self-mutilation and projection of the ideas of evil onto the
    woman as an archetype in Eve, in the immediate reality of one’s wife or
    relations. Castration, and the ideas which would reinforce such an action, go
    completely against the innate human gift of the "organs of generation," which
    many believed were meant to be used freely within the sacred bond of marriage.
    The understanding one gets, form reading the traditional Christian understandings of human sexuality and its relation to religion as a social institution, is that there is a great spiritual and religious unbalance in Western Civilization; the effects of this can be studied systematically in the religious and secular dissent that has become manifest throughout the centuries.
    It is, of course, fundamental to understanding Christianity that one
    sees the ways in which it stands irreconcilably distant from Judaism and many
    of the "Old Testament" teachings, as well as from logical coherency as a religio-
    social institution. The teachings of Christianity focus on the personal spiritual
    life, not the integrity of the Christian society as a whole. However, in its essence
    personal spiritual life is diverted by the poisons of misogyny, self-hatred, and
    the guilt of being born originally sinful.

    Further Notes:
    "Perceiving...God to be male, orthodox Christians considered male supremacy an extension of heavenly order, St. Augustine wrote in the early fifth century, "we must conclude, that a husband is meant to rule over his wife as the spirit rules over the flesh (18)." In his first letter to the Corinthians, St. Paul tried to explain the reason for male supremacy: For a man did not originally spring from woman, but woman was made out of man; and was not created for woman’s sake, but woman for the sake of man." (19) As late as 1977, Pope Paul VI still explained that women were barred from priesthood "because our Lord was a man." (20)Among the orthodox, women were to take submissive roles. In the first letter to Timothy, St. Paul says: Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness, I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. (21) When Christian monks in the fourth century hacked the great [pagan] scholar Hypatia to death with oyster shells, St. Cyril exlained that it was because she was an iniquitous female who had presumed, against God’s commandments, to teach men. (22) (Ellerbe 7-8)
    "Augustine believed that our freedom of will to choose good over evil was lost with the sin of Adam. Adam’s sin, that, in Augustine’s words, is in the "nature of the semen from which we were propagated," brought suffering and death into the world, took away our free will, and left us with an inherently evil nature. To sin is now inevitable. Should we occasionally do good, it is only good, it is only because of irresistible grace. "When, therefore, man lives according to man, not according to God, he is like the devil," Augustine wrote." (Ellerbe 31-32)
    "Human sexuality, to Augustine, clearly demonstrates a human inability to choose good over evil. Augustine based this belief upon his own experience. Having himself led a promiscuous life in his youth during which he fathered and then abandoned an illegitimate chid, he thought that sex was intrinsically evil. He complained of sexual desire: Who can control this when its appetite is aroused? No one! In the very movement of this appetite, then, it has no ‘mode’ that responds to decisions of the will...Yet what he wishes he cannot accomplish...In the very movement of the appetite, it has no mode corresponding to decision of the will." (32) "This diabolical excitement of the genitals," as Augustine referred to sex, is evidence from Adam’s original sin which is now transmitted "from the mother’s womb," tainting all human beings with sin, and leaving them incapable of choosing good over evil or determining their own destiny." (Ellerbe 33)
    St. Jerome warns, "Regard everything as poison which bears within it the seed of sensual pleasure." In her book Adam, Eve, and the Serpent, Elaine Pagels writes:
    Clement (of Alexandria) excludes...intercourse with a...pregnant, barren, or menopausal wife and for that matter, with one’s wife ‘in the morning,’ ‘in the daytime,’ or ‘after dinner.’ Clement warns, indeed, that ‘not even at night, although in darkness, is it fitting to carry on immodestly or indecently, but with modesty, so that whatever happens, happens in the light of reason...’ for even that union ‘which is legitimate is still dangerous, except in so far as it is engaged in procreation of children. " (Ellerbe 33)
    "In April of 418 the pope excommunicated Pelagius. Ever since, the Catholic church has officially embraced the doctrine of hereditary transmission of original sin." (Ellerbe 35)
    "By opposing Pelagius, the Church adopted Augustine’s idea that people are inherently evil, incapable of choice, and thus in need of strong authority. Human sexuality is seen as evidence of their sinful nature." (Ellerbe 40)
    "The witch hunts were an eruption of orthodox Christianity’s vilification of women, "the weaker vessel," in St. Paul’s words. The second century St. Clement of Alexandria wrote: "Every woman should be filled with shame by the thought that she isa woman." (Ellerbe 114)
    "The sixth century Christian philosopher, Boethius, wrote in the Consolation of Philosophy, "Women is a temple built upon a sewer." Bishops at the sixth century Council of Macon voted as to whether women had souls. In the tenth century Odo of Cluny declared, "To embrace a woman is to embrace a sack of manure..." The thirteenth century St. Thomas Aquinas suggested that God had made a mistake in creating woman: "nothing [deficient] or defective should have been produced in the first establishment of things; so woman ought not to have been produced then." And Lutherans at Wittenberg debated whether women were really human beings at all. Orthodox Christians held women responsible for all sin. As the Bible’s Apocrypha states, "Of woman came the beginning of sin/And thanks to her, we all must die."
    Women are often understood to be impediments to spirituality...As I Corinthians 7:1 states, "It is a good thing for a man to have nothing to do with a woman." (Ellerbe 115)
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    RAM ranted about my quote mining and now his wife is quote-mining without any opposition from him. Sounds like blatant favoritism. These are RAM's exact words:

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough
    The problem with quote mining is that the quotes are usually taken out of context, and often mean the opposite of what the quote miner says they mean. The quotes are deceptive because they give the impression that the scientists are supporting the creationist ideas when in fact those scientists do not.
    Cheow,

    I didn't "rant" about your quote mining, I explained why it is erroneous. Can you show any error in the explanation that I gave? Do you agree with it?

    Your assertion that I have showed "favoritism" to Rose is false. She did not "quote mine" because her quotes revealed what the authors actually believed. She was not trying to make them appear to say things that contradicted what they actually believe and said elsewhere. That's not the case with your quote mining. When you post quotes by evolutionists, you are trying to prove that they disagree with evolution! That's very deceptive, and so your quote mining is wrong, very wrong.

    Do you understand what I have written? Can you give an intelligent response?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Likewise, I can easily quote Anti-Man quotes from the internet. That may make Rose feels better . As RAM says quote mining is absurd, opposite and deceptive and make a fool out of you. Quote mining must comes with the context and most of them are personal issues or opinions.
    Again, Rose's quotes accurately represent what those men thought, so they were not "opposite and deceptive" and they did not make a "fool" out of Rose. You are the one making a fool out of yourself as you continue to demonstrate your complete lack of understanding of why quote mining is wrong.

    And you think that fining "Anti-Man quotes on the internet" would mean anything or have anything to do with this discussion? Man, that's just nuts.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Here is another excellent article found here that I have re-posted below. It's long and the formatting is bad, but it's well worth the read.
    Great article. I'm glad you posted it. It really brings out the craziest part of Christianity. Three of the most revered people in the Bible were all celibate virgins!

    Mary (Virgin, never had sex according to the Catholics and most early church fathers)

    Jesus (Virgin, never had sex)

    Paul (Celibate - it's possible he could have been widowed but there is no evidence for that so he probably was a virgin too).

    There you go. It's no wonder Christians are so hung up about sex.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  7. #7
    Unregistered Guest

    Love

    Love this thread! Love when people are willing to question what has always been held as sacred but has holes like swiss cheese. I've just begun to question the books that make up the New Testament, who decided on them and who those people were. If I know nothing of them how do I know I can trust their decisions. Well, as my studies have found, those men (all of them men) mostly hated women, which is why the Bible is a mostly masculine reading book. And now that I see their views on sex, no wonder Christian women have so many problems with sex being a beautiful thing. As for God being male...well in Gen. 1, scripture says that God made Adam (mankind) in the image of Him/Them. God refers to Himself as "Us" and 'male and female, He created them'. He says this BEFORE He took woman out of man. So the first human being was both male and female. (Let's not process this in our warped, linear thinking.) If there is any doubt that God is very female as well as male, look at all the names of God that are feminine qualities. Holy Spirit is called Comforter and Counselor, like a mother. Wisdom is referred to as 'she' and 'her' in Proverbs. One of the names of God, I think it is El Shaddai, is interpreted as The Breasty One, meaning the nourisher, provider, etc.
    Now, contrary to how we have been taught to 'read' the New Testament, Y'Shua majorly promoted the value of women. Women of His day were considered dogs, forbidden to even learn Torah. The fact that women traveled with Him was atrocious for the day. Not to mention the value of the woman at the well, His defense of the woman dragged into public to be stoned (without the man caught with her), etc. There is much more but would take too much time and space to put here.
    One of the kickers, however, is the word 'helper' God used for woman at the beginning. He said she would be Man's helper. That word 'helper' is used 19 times in scripture, 2 of the times are referring to women, the other 17 times referring to God Himself. This 'helper' is a greater helping a lesser (not in value). So the demeaning slave-like meaning attached to this word is purely mankind's (& satan's) degradation, not God's. There is an awesome book called Fashioned to Reign, written by Kris Vallotton. He completely strips the degrading lies away that Christianity has used to attack women. Selah...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Love this thread! Love when people are willing to question what has always been held as sacred but has holes like swiss cheese. I've just begun to question the books that make up the New Testament, who decided on them and who those people were. If I know nothing of them how do I know I can trust their decisions. Well, as my studies have found, those men (all of them men) mostly hated women, which is why the Bible is a mostly masculine reading book. And now that I see their views on sex, no wonder Christian women have so many problems with sex being a beautiful thing. As for God being male...well in Gen. 1, scripture says that God made Adam (mankind) in the image of Him/Them. God refers to Himself as "Us" and 'male and female, He created them'. He says this BEFORE He took woman out of man. So the first human being was both male and female. (Let's not process this in our warped, linear thinking.) If there is any doubt that God is very female as well as male, look at all the names of God that are feminine qualities. Holy Spirit is called Comforter and Counselor, like a mother. Wisdom is referred to as 'she' and 'her' in Proverbs. One of the names of God, I think it is El Shaddai, is interpreted as The Breasty One, meaning the nourisher, provider, etc.
    Now, contrary to how we have been taught to 'read' the New Testament, Y'Shua majorly promoted the value of women. Women of His day were considered dogs, forbidden to even learn Torah. The fact that women traveled with Him was atrocious for the day. Not to mention the value of the woman at the well, His defense of the woman dragged into public to be stoned (without the man caught with her), etc. There is much more but would take too much time and space to put here.
    One of the kickers, however, is the word 'helper' God used for woman at the beginning. He said she would be Man's helper. That word 'helper' is used 19 times in scripture, 2 of the times are referring to women, the other 17 times referring to God Himself. This 'helper' is a greater helping a lesser (not in value). So the demeaning slave-like meaning attached to this word is purely mankind's (& satan's) degradation, not God's. There is an awesome book called Fashioned to Reign, written by Kris Vallotton. He completely strips the degrading lies away that Christianity has used to attack women. Selah...
    Hello

    You are well on the road to reason when you begin to question the biased way in which women are treated in the Bible ... that is where my journey out of Christianity began. I have written short booklet called Gender Bias in the Bible - it deals with the extreme gender bias and suppression of women in Scripture. Once I realized how inequality and bias against women are built into the doctrines of the Bible and supposedly handed down from its god, the only conclusion I could validly come to was that the Bible is "Made from the minds of men" ... which includes its male god.

    No true creator god can legitimately be called righteous, and just on one hand, while treating half the population in such a degrading and unjust manner. If one were to go through Scripture and strip from it all the biased passages that deny women equal human rights, one would be left with a skeleton void of flesh. The Christian god has never been a friend of women, and no matter how one tries to reinterpret Scripture women always come out on the short end of the stick. I am so glad you are aware of the bias that both the Old and New Testaments hold in regards to women. It won't be long before you will see that the god you call El Shaddai is no more than a construct made from the minds of men who regarded women as inferior to themselves.

    Take care
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

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