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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    The writings of Confucius don't necessarily predate the book of Leviticus, but he lived in an entirely different culture than the Hebrews with no contact with them, and his writings contain the Golden Rule. Besides that the verse in Leviticus was only addressed to the Hebrews themselves, and as you might have noticed the Hebrews never treated their foreign neighbors as themselves.

    Lev.19:17-18 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.


    Take care,
    Rose
    Good morning Rose

    If Leviticus predates Confucius, it must take the credit and who knows that Confucius did not get to hear about it rather than have the original thought.

    On a one to one level we should treat everyone (who is our neighbor) as we would like to be treated. The question we must ask is; "who is our neighbor?" Answering this question is key to understanding justice and judgment that God poured out on the wicked. Not everyone is our neighbor; it is a mistake to say that everyone is.

    We have the well know example of the story of the 'Good Samaritan' told by Jesus to answer this very question put to him. The conclusion of this was; "Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? 37 And he said, He that showed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

    Who are neighbors? The one that shows mercy and the one that receives mercy. If we receive mercy we are taught to do the same and show mercy to those who deserve it.

    Jesus extends the principle to include our personal enemies with the intent that in all that we do, we should aim for perfection, just as Jesus was perfect like his Heavenly Father is perfect.
    Matthew 5
    43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
    44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
    45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
    46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
    47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
    48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


    When we take the above on board this is why we must leave all judgment to God concerning those who are not our neighbors. The nations around Israel and the people in the promised land were not neighbors to Israel in the sense of the above. Neighbors are not defined above purely by their physical proximity.

    It is clear from the teaching of Jesus and the teaching of God in the OT concerning God's enemies is that vengeance belongs to God. God will not show mercy to those who hate Him, those who commit idolatry and those who reject His commandments. It is not up to us (individually or collectively) as followers of Jesus and God to show any form of vengeance or retaliation and we should let God be the judge and executor. God can do this and God is fair because He has told us/man what the rules are. We disobey God at our peril and there are abundant warnings that those who reject God will perish whether that be by natural death or because God pours out His punishment on a nation.

    The way the world operates should not be the way followers of Jesus operate. The world is enmity with God and that is why God is just for punishing those in the world. The world is full of idolatrous people and God through His word has made it abundantly clear that He hates those that practice idolatry and lead others astray.

    The Apostle Paul understood these things and how the judgment of God is just; this is what we should understand.
    Romans 1
    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
    30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
    31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
    32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
    2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
    2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.



    David

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Good morning Rose

    If Leviticus predates Confucius, it must take the credit and who knows that Confucius did not get to hear about it rather than have the original thought.

    On a one to one level we should treat everyone (who is our neighbor) as we would like to be treated. The question we must ask is; "who is our neighbor?" Answering this question is key to understanding justice and judgment that God poured out on the wicked. Not everyone is our neighbor; it is a mistake to say that everyone is.

    We have the well know example of the story of the 'Good Samaritan' told by Jesus to answer this very question put to him. The conclusion of this was; "Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? 37 And he said, He that showed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

    Who are neighbors? The one that shows mercy and the one that receives mercy. If we receive mercy we are taught to do the same and show mercy to those who deserve it.

    Jesus extends the principle to include our personal enemies with the intent that in all that we do, we should aim for perfection, just as Jesus was perfect like his Heavenly Father is perfect.

    David
    Hi David,

    The story of the Good Samaritan is a perfect example of who the Jews prior to Jesus considered a neighbor to be, which was only their own race. Confucius lived over 500 years before Jesus and was teaching that very same message of treating others the way you wish to be treated regardless of race, so Christians should probably give the credit to Confucius.

    Exclusivity was a key component of the Hebrew's religion prior to Paul who took it to the Gentiles, that is precisely why the Jews treated the man lying in the ditch the way they did in the story of the Good Samaritan. Jesus himself said very little about taking the Good News to the Gentiles, he mostly spoke to his disciples concerning the "lost sheep of the house of Israel". It wasn't until many years latter that Paul began to share his revelation of Jesus with the Gentiles.


    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hi David,

    The story of the Good Samaritan is a perfect example of who the Jews prior to Jesus considered a neighbor to be, which was only their own race. Confucius lived over 500 years before Jesus and was teaching that very same message of treating others the way you wish to be treated regardless of race, so Christians should probably give the credit to Confucius.

    Exclusivity was a key component of the Hebrew's religion prior to Paul who took it to the Gentiles, that is precisely why the Jews treated the man lying in the ditch the way they did in the story of the Good Samaritan. Jesus himself said very little about taking the Good News to the Gentiles, he mostly spoke to his disciples concerning the "lost sheep of the house of Israel". It wasn't until many years latter that Paul began to share his revelation of Jesus with the Gentiles.


    Rose
    Hello Rose
    Why should Christians give the credit to Confucius when the Book of Leviticus was written before?
    You cannot call the Samaritans neighbors of the Jews, their proximity and descendency from the Tribes of Israel did not make them friends of the Jews. I found the following comment from Wikipedia to back this up.
    Both Jewish and Samaritan religious leaders taught that it was wrong to have any contact with the opposite group, and neither was to enter each other's territories or even to speak to one another. During the New Testament period, although the tensions went unrecognized by Roman authorities, Josephus reports numerous violent confrontations between Jews and Samaritans throughout the first half of the first century.
    Exclusivity was not the name of the game. Anyone could become a proselyte Jew. Strangers were to be treated with respect and there was nothing to stop the stranger accepting the practices of the Israelites who should have set an example.
    Lev 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

    What the religious leaders did after God had given them this law is a different matter and any digression from the law is of men's doing and not God.

    Jesus remained in the land of Israel and spoke to the people he came across, which would have been mainly Jews but not exclusively. OK, so Paul traveled outside of Israel and took the gospel to the Gentiles, but what difference does that make to the principles we are talking about? There would be many traders/merchants and strangers passing through the land of Israel, so they had the opportunity to learn the customs of the Jews and enquire about the God of the Jews.

    All the best,

    David

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