Adam return to Dust

[Beck]

He didn't originate in Eden.

Genesis 2:8,
And the Lord God planted a garden in Eden from the east, and He placed there the man whom He had formed.

You might ask: "from the east", what does that mean?

Hebrew מִקֶּדֶם, "mikedem".

Rashi:


In the east of Eden = במזרחו של עדן , "b'mizracho shel Eden".
"Mizrach" = orient , from "zarach"= to shine, rise, glow

When Adam was expelled from the garden it states, Genesis 2:23,
And the Lord God sent him out of the Garden of Eden, to till the soil, whence he had been taken
which implies that he wasn't taken from the soil of the garden.

Next v.24,
And He drove the man out, and He stationed at the east of the Garden of Eden the cherubim and the blade of the revolving sword, to guard the way to the Tree of Life

"at the east of the garden of Eden"
Hebrew: מִקֶּדֶם לְגַן עֵדֶן , "mikedem l'gan Eden".
Rashi:


From which I do derive that the garden lies in the west.

"Morgenland" has this double meaning too.

"olam haba" = the coming world.

We orientate on it.

The way through the temple also goes from the east unto the west. The holy of holies lying in the west.
Jesus' way up to Jerusalem also was a way from the east tio the west,
Mark 10:

32 And they were in the way going up to Jerusalem; and Jesus went before them: and they were amazed; and as they followed, they were afraid. And he took again the twelve, and began to tell them what things should happen unto him,

33 Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles:

34 And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Hi sylvius,

This is what I see when I read Genesis 3:17 as well, thanks. Something we might also see a connection to is the reference to EARTH being the DRY LAND from which God removed the DEEP which was DARKNESS. This dry land or earth is what man 'Adam' is created and formed from. I would also notices that the meaning of Adam (Strong's H120 - 'adam ) isn't only man, but RED OR THE IDEA OF REDNESS. If we take these connections of Adam is to be created from the Dry Land and is Red...has redness the idea of Adam being formed from Clay. Which in itself is spoken of the people of Israel as being clay in the potters hand. This idea of 'Adam' meaning Israel that was given the knowledge of God's word yet followed after other gods in disobedence was put out of the promised land (garden of eden) and lead captive unto the nations.

[sylvius]

Hi sylvius,

This is what I see when I read Genesis 3:17 as well, thanks. Something we might also see a connection to is the reference to EARTH being the DRY LAND from which God removed the DEEP which was DARKNESS. This dry land or earth is what man 'Adam' is created and formed from. I would also notices that the meaning of Adam (Strong's H120 - 'adam ) isn't only man, but RED OR THE IDEA OF REDNESS. If we take these connections of Adam is to be created from the Dry Land and is Red...has redness the idea of Adam being formed from Clay. Which in itself is spoken of the people of Israel as being clay in the potters hand. This idea of 'Adam' meaning Israel that was given the knowledge of God's word yet followed after other gods in disobedence was put out of the promised land (garden of eden) and lead captive unto the nations.

"Dry land" = Hebrew "yabashah"

Genesis 1:9,
And God said, "Let the water that is beneath the heavens gather into one place, and let the dry land appear," and it was so.

Seems to be something unsoluble in water.

Water is symbol of time (which follows from Genesis 2:5-6, nothing had yet grown -- growth being a process in time -- until a mist went up from the earth.)
So "dry land" is eternal.
And also "dust".

[Beck]

"Dry land" = Hebrew "yabashah"

Genesis 1:9,
And God said, "Let the water that is beneath the heavens gather into one place, and let the dry land appear," and it was so.

Seems to be something unsoluble in water.

Water is symbol of time (which follows from Genesis 2:5-6, nothing had yet grown -- growth being a process in time -- until a mist went up from the earth.)
So "dry land" is eternal.
And also "dust".

Never considered 'water' as a symbol of time...but considered it to symbolize the 'deep, bottomless, darkness, and peoples, nations and tongues'. This seems to be the implication of the flood of Noah that flood waters came upon the land and consumed all the uncleanness. In one sence water came to purify and make clean on the other side it came to destory. We can see that this is how Jesus imployed the living waters that he had it would either wash you clean or destroy you. It is also the implication in Revelation of wormwood that turned the water into bitter water.(Rev.8:10-11)

[sylvius]

Never considered 'water' as a symbol of time...but considered it to symbolize the 'deep, bottomless, darkness, and peoples, nations and tongues'. This seems to be the implication of the flood of Noah that flood waters came upon the land and consumed all the uncleanness. In one sence water came to purify and make clean on the other side it came to destory. We can see that this is how Jesus imployed the living waters that he had it would either wash you clean or destroy you. It is also the implication in Revelation of wormwood that turned the water into bitter water.(Rev.8:10-11)

Interesting is that the Hebrew word used for "blot out" can also mean "dissolve". (מחה machah)

Genesis 8:7,
And the Lord said, "I will dissolve man, whom I created, from upon the face of the earth, from man to cattle to creeping thing, to the fowl of the heavens, for I regret that I made them."

Next v.8:
And Noach found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

That you might think that the finding of "chen", favor, in fact is the realization of "luz", little bone that cannot decay ( dissolve) and from which man is resurrected.


Not dissolve in time:
there is a hard core in it.
In fact "the word" --
Isaiah 40:8,
The grass withereth, the flower fadeth; but the word of our God shall stand for ever.'


1 Corinthians
51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.

See also:

The-four-times-eileh-toldot-and-resurrection

And note Genesis 5:29,
And he named him Noach, saying, "This one will give us rest from our work and from the toil of our hands from the ground, which the Lord has cursed."

ICW Genesis 3:19,
With the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, until you return to the ground, for you were taken therefrom, for dust you are, and to dust you will return."


In the case of the formation of the animals "dust" is not mentioned:

Genesis 2:19,
And the Lord God formed from the earth every beast of the field and every fowl of the heavens

So "dust" indeed seems to be something special!

Genesis 28:14,
And your seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and you shall gain strength westward and eastward and northward and southward; and through you shall be blessed all the families of the earth and through your seed

[David M]

Here are a few extra thoughts I have had by the conversation so far.

Dust (as complex as this is) is about 15% of person's body. Likewise plants contain much more water than dust. God used water in the process of Creation. Hence the "water of life". Water is essential to sustaining life.

In man's quest to find other planets that has life or had life, scientists are looking for evidence of water.

The creation story has to be told simply or else we would spend all our time learning of how the earth was designed or how it came to self-form. God either chose a unique planet or He had to design a unique planet to sustain life. There are so many factors involving the sun, moon and the make up of the earth, there has to be an element of design involved of which we are not told about and it is not necessary to for us to know.

From this primordial soup dust, water, electricity (lightening) and heat, Evolutionists think all life was formed. Man is unable to replicate the evolutionary process so it remains a theory. A potter uses water to fashion clay and indeed clay in its raw state has water contained in it. Only when the clay is fired and most of the water is driven off does the clay become dry and brittle. We might think that rock and things like bricks are dry products yet they contain a small percentage of water.

If we mix dust with water we get mud. Jesus mixed water and dust to form mud which he put on the eyelids of the blind man. Was the mud instrumental in curing the man of his blindness?

Are we making spiritual mud by mixing spiritual water with spiritual dust?

All the best,

David

[sylvius]

Here I wrote some on "arets"= earth:

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...quot-The-earth

[duxrow]

Here are a few extra thoughts I have had by the conversation so far.

Dust (as complex as this is) is about 15% of person's body. Likewise plants contain much more water than dust. God used water in the process of Creation. Hence the "water of life". Water is essential to sustaining life.

In man's quest to find other planets that has life or had life, scientists are looking for evidence of water.

They're looking for liquid water (maybe will find some), but the "spiritual water" metaphor is from the Bible.

The creation story has to be told simply or else we would spend all our time learning of how the earth was designed or how it came to self-form. God either chose a unique planet or He had to design a unique planet to sustain life. There are so many factors involving the sun, moon and the make up of the earth, there has to be an element of design involved of which we are not told about and it is not necessary to for us to know.

From this primordial soup dust, water, electricity (lightening) and heat, Evolutionists think all life was formed. Man is unable to replicate the evolutionary process so it remains a theory. A potter uses water to fashion clay and indeed clay in its raw state has water contained in it. Only when the clay is fired and most of the water is driven off does the clay become dry and brittle. We might think that rock and things like bricks are dry products yet they contain a small percentage of water.

If we mix dust with water we get mud. Jesus mixed water and dust to form mud which he put on the eyelids of the blind man. Was the mud instrumental in curing the man of his blindness?

Are we making spiritual mud by mixing spiritual water with spiritual dust? All the best,

David

Hey David, Have you considered this angle:

Jesus to Peter before his conversion was like 'powder' to be sifted by satan and 'blown around with winds of..'

Maybe more like 'flour' for making Bread (like Him), but the only flour found is "Lily and Rose of Sharon".

The Holy Spirit 'poured out' at Pentacost... like 'water'?

Then Peter (and others like him) become 'lumps', no longer blown around with winds of other doctrines.

You think?

[Beck]

Here are a few extra thoughts I have had by the conversation so far.

Dust (as complex as this is) is about 15% of person's body. Likewise plants contain much more water than dust. God used water in the process of Creation. Hence the "water of life". Water is essential to sustaining life.

In man's quest to find other planets that has life or had life, scientists are looking for evidence of water.

The creation story has to be told simply or else we would spend all our time learning of how the earth was designed or how it came to self-form. God either chose a unique planet or He had to design a unique planet to sustain life. There are so many factors involving the sun, moon and the make up of the earth, there has to be an element of design involved of which we are not told about and it is not necessary to for us to know.

From this primordial soup dust, water, electricity (lightening) and heat, Evolutionists think all life was formed. Man is unable to replicate the evolutionary process so it remains a theory. A potter uses water to fashion clay and indeed clay in its raw state has water contained in it. Only when the clay is fired and most of the water is driven off does the clay become dry and brittle. We might think that rock and things like bricks are dry products yet they contain a small percentage of water.

If we mix dust with water we get mud. Jesus mixed water and dust to form mud which he put on the eyelids of the blind man. Was the mud instrumental in curing the man of his blindness?

Are we making spiritual mud by mixing spiritual water with spiritual dust?

All the best,

David

Hey David, Have you considered this angle:

Jesus to Peter before his conversion was like 'powder' to be sifted by satan and 'blown around with winds of..'

Maybe more like 'flour' for making Bread (like Him), but the only flour found is "Lily and Rose of Sharon".

The Holy Spirit 'poured out' at Pentacost... like 'water'?

Then Peter (and others like him) become 'lumps', no longer blown around with winds of other doctrines.

You think?

Hey David, sylvius and duxrow

I like the connections you are making... I would think that 'dust' is simply man without the spirit of life. It seems man came from a the dry earth and was cursed to go back. Therefore God told Adam that the day that he ate of the forbiden fruit that he was certainly die 'surely die'. As you might have noticed the garden of eden had four rivers of water....it wasn't dry...it had plenty of water (spirit of life).

[duxrow]

Hey David, sylvius and duxrow

I like the connections you are making... I would think that 'dust' is simply man without the spirit of life. It seems man came from a the dry earth and was cursed to go back. Therefore God told Adam that the day that he ate of the forbiden fruit that he was certainly die 'surely die'. As you might have noticed the garden of eden had four rivers of water....it wasn't dry...it had plenty of water (spirit of life).

The Four Rivers a type and PRECEPT of the Four Gospels, doncha think? Or maybe not, since only two of them Tigris and Euphrates still on the front burner..

[sylvius]

The Four Rivers a type and PRECEPT of the Four Gospels, doncha think? Or maybe not, since only two of them Tigris and Euphrates still on the front burner..

Four rivers flowing from one, the one river separating into four heads.

The one encompassing all the land of Chavilah where is the gold and the chrystal and the onyx stone.

Chavilah = Biblewheel?
(Chawheelah)

And what is the one Gospel?