Alleged Nazi war criminal Csatary arrested in Hungary!

[Richard Amiel McGough]

The "lake of fire" is obviously symbolic and not literal. Hell (the grave) is elsewhere referred to as Gehenna and is the place of eternal fire. We know that Gehenna was place of the rubbish tip outside Jerusalem where there was a continual burning of the rubbish including dead corpses. The fires were eternal in that they did not go out as long as there was rubbish to be burned. The "lake of fire" conveys the same idea. I do not think we have to read into the passage you have quoted anymore than we need to do. Death is simply going back to the dust of the ground and all memory ceases. We do not know how God retains our spirit, we just have to believe and accept God can do it and that He can raise people back to life. As far as the dead go; the grave is their end. Simple!

All the best,

David

I agree that the lake of fire is a symbol. But that's not relevant to my question. You had said that it made no sense for God to resurrect people that he would then destroy. I agree, but the text still seems to be saying that the wicked dead will be resurrected and thrown in the LoF (whatever it is a symbol of). So how do you understand this now? Do you think the wicked dead will be resurrected? If not, how do you understand that passage from Rev 20?

[David M]

I agree that the lake of fire is a symbol. But that's not relevant to my question. You had said that it made no sense for God to resurrect people that he would then destroy. I agree, but the text still seems to be saying that the wicked dead will be resurrected and thrown in the LoF (whatever it is a symbol of). So how do you understand this now? Do you think the wicked dead will be resurrected? If not, how do you understand that passage from Rev 20?

Once again, I am not going to read into that passage anymore than is necessary. It is obvious that only those who names are written in the Book of Life (in whatever way we understand the book to be) are the ones who are judged worthy to be in the kingdom. All those whose names are not in the Book of Life are presumably not worthy to be in the kingdom and are not judged and are destined for the grave along with the bad and the unjust who are judged and not found worthy.

David.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Once again, I am not going to read into that passage anymore than is necessary. It is obvious that only those who names are written in the Book of Life (in whatever way we understand the book to be) are the ones who are judged worthy to be in the kingdom. All those who are not judged worthy are destined for the grave.


David.

Why are you avoiding my question?

I'm not talking about reading anything "into" the verse. I'm talking about what the verse actually states:

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So here we see that the "dead, small and great" (which seems to imply all the dead, wicked and good) stood before God, and those that were not found written in the book were cast in the lake. This seems to imply that the wicked dead are resurrected. This seems to be confirmed by Paul:

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

And both Paul and John seem to be confirmed by Jesus:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

And Paul and John and Jesus seem to be confirmed by Daniel:

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

I am getting confused. Are not all these Scriptures mutually confirming? What is motivating you to explain them away as meaning something other than what they appear to mean? Do you have a favorite verse that trumps the plain meaning of all these mutually confirming verses? Or are you following the teachings of some denomination? I just don't get it.

[David M]

Why are you avoiding my question?

I'm not talking about reading anything "into" the verse. I'm talking about what the verse actually states:

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So here we see that the "dead, small and great" (which seems to imply all the dead, wicked and good) stood before God, and those that were not found written in the book were cast in the lake. This seems to imply that the wicked dead are resurrected. This seems to be confirmed by Paul:

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

And both Paul and John seem to be confirmed by Jesus:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

And Paul and John and Jesus seem to be confirmed by Daniel:

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

I am getting confused. Are not all these Scriptures mutually confirming? What is motivating you to explain them away as meaning something other than what they appear to mean? Do you have a favorite verse that trumps the plain meaning of all these mutually confirming verses? Or are you following the teachings of some denomination? I just don't get it.

Sorry Richard, I don't get it either, I have answered the questions and if you do not understand the answers, there is nothing more I can say to satisfy your questions. You will believe what you want to believe regardless of however anyone answers you. We will have to pass on this now.

David

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Sorry Richard, I don't get it either, I have answered the questions and if you do not understand the answers, there is nothing more I can say to satisfy your questions. You will believe what you want to believe regardless of however anyone answers you. We will have to pass on this now.

David

You never answered the question David.

All you said was that the lake of fire was symbolic. You never addressed the question about the resurrection of the wicked dead. Now that you have seen all the verses that confirm the wicked dead will be resurrected and then condemned, do you believe it? If not, why not?

ETA: You did say this earlier: "I accept that all, whether good or bad and even reprobates, could stand before Jesus to be judged, but it does not make much sense if they are to be sent to the grave again." So is that your position? Do you now believe it is what the Scripture teaches even though it "doesn't make much sense"?

[David M]

You never answered the question David.

All you said was that the lake of fire was symbolic. You never addressed the question about the resurrection of the wicked dead. Now that you have seen all the verses that confirm the wicked dead will be resurrected and then condemned, do you believe it? If not, why not?

ETA: You did say this earlier: "I accept that all, whether good or bad and even reprobates, could stand before Jesus to be judged, but it does not make much sense if they are to be sent to the grave again." So is that your position? Do you now believe it is what the Scripture teaches even though it "doesn't make much sense"?

I have said how I understand these verses and what I understand will be the fate of all those who will not be accepted into the kingdom. That is sufficient to draw your own conclusions, as to what these verses mean to you. I will not limit God in what He can do, so if I make an inference that is not supported to the letter by scripture, then it is of no real significance.


David

THE END

[Richard Amiel McGough]

You never answered the question David.

All you said was that the lake of fire was symbolic. You never addressed the question about the resurrection of the wicked dead. Now that you have seen all the verses that confirm the wicked dead will be resurrected and then condemned, do you believe it? If not, why not?

ETA: You did say this earlier: "I accept that all, whether good or bad and even reprobates, could stand before Jesus to be judged, but it does not make much sense if they are to be sent to the grave again." So is that your position? Do you now believe it is what the Scripture teaches even though it "doesn't make much sense"?

I have said how I understand these verses and what I understand will be the fate of all those who will not be accepted into the kingdom. That is sufficient to draw your own conclusions, as to what these verses mean to you. I will not limit God in what He can do, so if I make an inference that is not supported to the letter by scripture, then it is of no real significance.


David

THE END

You have not said how you understand those verses. Why are you being so evasive? I asked a very simple question. On the one hand, you said "I accept that all, whether good or bad and even reprobates, could stand before Jesus to be judged, but it does not make much sense if they are to be sent to the grave again." But when I tried to confirm that this is what you meant, you refuse to answer. Why don't you just say what you mean in a way that can be understood?

What do you mean when you say "I will not limit God in what He can do, so if I make an inference that is not supported to the letter by scripture, then it is of no real significance"? What "inference" are you talking about? What is "not supported by the letter of Scripture"?

[David M]

You have not said how you understand those verses. Why are you being so evasive? I asked a very simple question. On the one hand, you said "I accept that all, whether good or bad and even reprobates, could stand before Jesus to be judged, but it does not make much sense if they are to be sent to the grave again." But when I tried to confirm that this is what you meant, you refuse to answer. Why don't you just say what you mean in a way that can be understood?

What do you mean when you say "I will not limit God in what He can do, so if I make an inference that is not supported to the letter by scripture, then it is of no real significance"? What "inference" are you talking about? What is "not supported by the letter of Scripture"?

This is definitely my last reply to your posts on this subject. If you cannot understand what I have said in posts #4, #8, #9, #10, #12, #14; #16 in which I have responded to everyone's questions and comments about my first statement in post #2 there is nothing more I can say on the subject to make you understand. I shall leave it to others to explain and do a better job than I have done.

I have not been evasive but answered the questions in your early posts which should have been sufficient. I have no need to answer more questions you keep insisting I have not answered. Draw your own conclusions from my answers already given, as you will, but I have not been evasive, I do not want to keep going over the same ground. Sometimes, I think you are so busy examining the bark, you cannot see the tree, let alone see the wood for the trees.

All the best,
David

Most definitely; THE END

[luke1978]

I don't think people realise we are already in hell.(The Jews and early christians believed in re-incarnation so maybe that is what Jesus meant by hell? - He is the way, truth and the life out of the cycle) - Just an opinion.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wor...-1226428577379

A picture is worth a thousand words.

As for this 97 year old Nazi he obviously is aware of his crimes against humanity and has had a long time to think about it. It is not for anybody to say what would occur in a discussion between God and himself.

Just a reminder:

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
New Living Translation (©2007)
"Do not judge others, and you will not be judged.

English Standard Version (©2001)
“Judge not, that you be not judged.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Do not judge so that you will not be judged.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

International Standard Version (©2008)
"Stop judging, so that you won't be judged,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
You shall not judge, lest you be judged.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"Stop judging so that you will not be judged.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Judge not, that you be not judged.

American King James Version
Judge not, that you be not judged.

American Standard Version
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Douay-Rheims Bible
JUDGE not, that you may not be judged,

Darby Bible Translation
Judge not, that ye may not be judged;

English Revised Version
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Webster's Bible Translation
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Weymouth New Testament
"Judge not, that you may not be judged;

World English Bible
"Don't judge, so that you won't be judged.

Young's Literal Translation
'Judge not, that ye may not be judged,

Edit - I think we need to work out how to help the kid in the link as this is all probably a test.(Hint, Hint) - Leave the judging to God(Also that kid makes me wish this was a virtual reality as that suffering is horrible).

[Richard Amiel McGough]

This is definitely my last reply to your posts on this subject. If you cannot understand what I have said in posts #4, #8, #9, #10, #12, #14; #16 in which I have responded to everyone's questions and comments about my first statement in post #2 there is nothing more I can say on the subject to make you understand. I shall leave it to others to explain and do a better job than I have done.

I have not been evasive but answered the questions in your early posts which should have been sufficient. I have no need to answer more questions you keep insisting I have not answered. Draw your own conclusions from my answers already given, as you will, but I have not been evasive, I do not want to keep going over the same ground. Sometimes, I think you are so busy examining the bark, you cannot see the tree, let alone see the wood for the trees.

All the best,
David

Most definitely; THE END

You have been totally evasive about the question I asked. The only "answer" you gave was in post #4. The other posts you cite say absolutely nothing about the question I asked. Here they are:

#4 You said "I accept that all, whether good or bad and even reprobates, could stand before Jesus to be judged, but it does not make much sense if they are to be sent to the grave again." I then asked if this means that you accept the testimony of Jesus, John, Paul, and Daniel concerning the resurrection of the wicked dead, and you gave six more posts that didn't answer my question!

#8 Says nothing about the question I asked

#9 Says nothing about the question I asked

#10 Says nothing about the question I asked

#12 Says nothing about the question I asked

#14 Says nothing about the question I asked

#16 Says nothing about the question I asked

And now you write "Most definitely; THE END" as if you have answered?