Two arguments for the possible corruption of Law!

[culi26]

A proof that God revealed a secret to Moses about the future of the Law, because no man, even Moses, cannot know what is going to happen after his own death!

Deuteronomy 31: 25-29

26. “Take this Book of the Law and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.
27. For I know how rebellious and stubborn you are. Behold, even today while I am yet alive with you, you have been rebellious against the Lord. How much more after my death!
28. Assemble to me all the elders of your tribes and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears and call heaven and earth to witness against them.
29. For I know that after my death you will surely act corruptly and turn aside from the way that I have commanded you.
30.And in the days to come evil will befall you, because you will do what is evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking him(the Lord) to anger through the work of your hands.”

Al-Quran 2:77-79 "Know they not Allah Knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' To traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (The Noble Quran, 2:77-79)"

Words of Moses in the verse 29 are proving clearly as a crystal that God told him that is going to happen something undesirable to the LAW (commandments) after his death!
We can understand this by dividing the verse in two parts:

1- For I know that after my death you will surely act corruptly

2- and turn aside from the way that I have commanded you.



The Book of Jeremiah which came approximately 800 years after did indeed confirm this corruption.

Jeremiah 8:8 “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the Law of the Lord is with us." But behold,the lying pen of the scribes has made it(i.e. the Law) into a lie.

This is a test for which you have time to think and to deny!

[Richard Amiel McGough]

A proof that God revealed a secret to Moses about the future of the Law, because no man, even Moses, cannot know what is going to happen after his own death!

Deuteronomy 31: 25-29

26. “Take this Book of the Law and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.
27. For I know how rebellious and stubborn you are. Behold, even today while I am yet alive with you, you have been rebellious against the Lord. How much more after my death!
28. Assemble to me all the elders of your tribes and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears and call heaven and earth to witness against them.
29. For I know that after my death you will surely act corruptly and turn aside from the way that I have commanded you.
30.And in the days to come evil will befall you, because you will do what is evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking him(the Lord) to anger through the work of your hands.”

Al-Quran 2:77-79 "Know they not Allah Knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' To traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (The Noble Quran, 2:77-79)"

Words of Moses in the verse 29 are proving clearly as a crystal that God told him that is going to happen something undesirable to the LAW (commandments) after his death!
We can understand this by dividing the verse in two parts:

1- For I know that after my death you will surely act corruptly

2- and turn aside from the way that I have commanded you.



The Book of Jeremiah which came approximately 800 years after did indeed confirm this corruption.

Jeremiah 8:8 “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the Law of the Lord is with us." But behold,the lying pen of the scribes has made it(i.e. the Law) into a lie.

This is a test for which you have time to think and to deny!

But you have to remember that the fundamentalist Christian is just like the fundamentalist Muslim, and would interpret these verses as speaking about the people becoming corrupt, not the law. If Allah allowed his own Word which he revealed in the Torah to become corrupt then how do you know he didn't let the Quran become corrupt? People are people. The Jews are no different than the Muslims or Christians or anyone else. And speaking of Christians, we see the same kind of "last words" spoken by the Apostle Paul:

Acts 20:18 And when they had come to him, he [Paul] said to them, "You yourselves know, from the first day that I set foot in Asia, how I was with you the whole time, 19 serving the Lord with all humility and with tears and with trials which came upon me through the plots of the Jews; 20 how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly and from house to house, 21 solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. 22 "And now, behold, bound in spirit, I am on my way to Jerusalem, not knowing what will happen to me there [may die], 23 except that the Holy Spirit solemnly testifies to me in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions await me. 24 "But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, in order that I may finish my course [speaking of his own death], and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the gospel of the grace of God. 25 "And now, behold, I know that all of you, among whom I went about preaching the kingdom, will see my face no more. 26 "Therefore I testify to you this day, that I am innocent of the blood of all men. 27 "For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. 28 "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 "Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears. 32 "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

This makes it look like Luke was trying to make Paul look like the new Moses. And that's pretty much how it turned out. Paul was the one who established most Christian doctrines.

It is very important to understand that such arguments are based upon your assumption that Islam is true, and so they would not convince anyone except someone who already believes in Islam. The real issue is that the Torah and the Gospel say many things that contradict the Quran, and you have no way to defeat those arguments because the evidence from textual criticism proves that the Torah and the Gospel were never changed in such a way that would allow the Quran to be true. That's the problem. It would be great if you wanted to explore it since you are obviously trying to convince folks that the Quran is true and the Bible corrupt.

[culi26]

This makes it look like Luke was trying to make Paul look like the new Moses. And that's pretty much how it turned out. Paul was the one who established most Christian doctrines.

The most anonymous persons in the world are the authors of Gospel, even for the beings of mythology we have more data!
I was watching a video while ago, a christian scholar(James White) said that christians do not know the authors of every book and WE do not need to know author of every book!
But, I think it's very important to know who were THEY, because the christians claim the Bible is 100% the WORD of God!

Source---http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nkfdRpsB_4


I don't believe in Paul because his DOCTRINE is in contradiction with the DOCTRINE of Jesus, The MESSIAH (pbuh). How can he be the chosen disciple of Jesus(pbuh) when he contradicts the main Doctrine of Jesus(pbuh)?

Secondly even Paul was not sure 100% about the spirit of God!

So, if Paul was not 100% sure about the spirit of God, why should I believe him! Let me quote from the mouth of Paul himself:

Corinthinas 7:40 ....and I(Paul) think that I too have the Spirit of God.

It is very important to understand that such arguments are based upon your assumption that Islam is true, and so they would not convince anyone except someone who already believes in Islam. The real issue is that the Torah and the Gospel say many things that contradict the Quran, and you have no way to defeat those arguments because the evidence from textual criticism proves that the Torah and the Gospel were never changed in such a way that would allow the Quran to be true. That's the problem. It would be great if you wanted to explore it since you are obviously trying to convince folks that the Quran is true and the Bible corrupt.

Yes, you're right, but the argument is in the Bible ITSELF!

Jeremiah 8:8

“How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the Law of the Lord is with us."

"But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it(i.e. the Law) into a lie."

Can you see that I'm using the Verse from the Bible itself!

[duxrow]

The most anonymous persons in the world are the authors of Gospel, even for the beings of mythology we have more data!
I was watching a video while ago, a christian scholar(James White) said that christians do not know the authors of every book and WE do not need to know author of every book!

You must weigh what men say against what the Bible says--so White is not an authority.

But, I think it's very important to know who were THEY, because the christians claim the Bible is 100% the WORD of God!

I don't believe in Paul because his DOCTRINE is in contradiction with the DOCTRINE of Jesus, The MESSIAH (ywam). How can he be the chosen disciple of Jesus() when he contradicts the main Doctrine of Jesus(ywam)?
Secondly even Paul was not sure 100% about the spirit og God!
So, if Paul was not 100% sure about the spirit of God, why should I believe him! Let me quote from the mouth of Paul himself:
Corinthinas 7:40 ....and I(Paul) think that I too have the Spirit of God.[/B]

Right; we say that because it isn't something that shows up in the mirror!

Yes, you're right, but the argument is in the Bible ITSELF!

Jeremiah 8:8 “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the Law of the Lord is with us."
"But behold, Can you see that I'm using the Verse from the Bible itself!

Speaks of Mohammed, maybe?

2Pet1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Heb12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Moses or Isaiah or Jeremiah, etc. didn't just decide to write their memoirs -- No, it was the Holy Ghost who gave it to them, and Mohammed wouldn't know him even if he was wearing red pajamas.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

The most anonymous persons in the world are the authors of Gospel, even for the beings of mythology we have more data!
I was watching a video while ago, a christian scholar(James White) said that christians do not know the authors of every book and WE do not need to know author of every book!
But, I think it's very important to know who were THEY, because the christians claim the Bible is 100% the WORD of God!

Source---http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nkfdRpsB_4

I'm surprised you linked to White's refutation since he clearly showed that his Muslim opponent made a lot of errors in logic and facts.

As for the authorship of the Gospels, you are correct that we don't know much about that. But neither do Muslims know much of anything about the origin of the Quran. Who collected the bits and pieces that were ultimately put into the Quran? And who decided which version was to be authoritative? And why were all the other versions destroyed? There is a lot more uncertainty about the Quran than the Bible because we have a lot more copies that show the variations. So rather than being a problem for the Bible, it is its strength.

I don't believe in Paul because his DOCTRINE is in contradiction with the DOCTRINE of Jesus, The MESSIAH (pbuh). How can he be the chosen disciple of Jesus(pbuh) when he contradicts the main Doctrine of Jesus(pbuh)?

The Quran also appears to contradict itself. That's why Muslims invented the doctrine of abrogation. So how do Muslims deal with this? They make up "interpretations" that are supposed to show that there are no "real" contradictions. And that's exactly the same thing that Christians do. So again, you argument is inconsistent and self-defeating. Muslims must abide by the old maxim: Folks who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Or to adapt it to the Quran: Folks who belief they can explain all the contradictions in their Scriptures should not attack other Scriptures as self-contradictory.

Secondly even Paul was not sure 100% about the spirit of God!

So, if Paul was not 100% sure about the spirit of God, why should I believe him! Let me quote from the mouth of Paul himself:

Corinthinas 7:40 ....and I(Paul) think that I too have the Spirit of God.

It's funny that you mention this, since White refuted this very argument in the video you linked. Did you understand his refutation? Can you show why he was wrong?

Yes, you're right, but the argument is in the Bible ITSELF!

Jeremiah 8:8

“How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the Law of the Lord is with us."

"But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it(i.e. the Law) into a lie."

Can you see that I'm using the Verse from the Bible itself!

You missed my point. The Christian would say that the lying scribes were writing things that were contrary to the Law, not that they were able to actually corrupt the law itself.

And again, you can find worse problems in the Quran that you just "explain away" so you must allow Christians the same freedom with their Scriptures or you will be shown to be inconsistent and your argument will fail.

[culi26]

I'm surprised you linked to White's refutation since he clearly showed that his Muslim opponent made a lot of errors in logic and facts.

Muslims are just human beings! But that wasn't my point anyway!

[culi26]

I'm surprised you linked to White's refutation since he clearly showed that his Muslim opponent made a lot of errors in logic and facts.

Muslims are just human beings! But that wasn't my point anyway!

As for the authorship of the Gospels, you are correct that we don't know much about that. But neither do Muslims know much of anything about the origin of the Quran. Who collected the bits and pieces that were ultimately put into the Quran? And who decided which version was to be authoritative? And why were all the other versions destroyed? There is a lot more uncertainty about the Quran than the Bible because we have a lot more copies that show the variations. So rather than being a problem for the Bible, it is its strength.

You're apsolutely wrong, we do know the origin of the Quran! I have shown you a web-site where you can read about it, but obviously you haven't done it!

Read it: http://www.answering-christianity.co...ther_books.htm

The Quran also appears to contradict itself. That's why Muslims invented the doctrine of abrogation. So how do Muslims deal with this? They make up "interpretations" that are supposed to show that there are no "real" contradictions. And that's exactly the same thing that Christians do. So again, you argument is inconsistent and self-defeating. Muslims must abide by the old maxim: Folks who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Or to adapt it to the Quran: Folks who belief they can explain all the contradictions in their Scriptures should not attack other Scriptures as self-contradictory.

Contradicts? Really? You're so funny! I thought there are no contradicts in the Quran!

You missed my point. The Christian would say that the lying scribes were writing things that were contrary to the Law, not that they were able to actually corrupt the law itself.

It's not important what Christians would say! It's their problem if they accept that the Law is corrupted or deny it!
I do not have any interest in this world, if any Christian will admit that the Bible is corrupted.
But, who knows, maybe there is a christian who would think about it!

And again, you can find worse problems in the Quran that you just "explain away" so you must allow Christians the same freedom with their Scriptures or you will be shown to be inconsistent and your argument will fail.

The faith can not be imposed, even if I talk all my life, I cannot impose to nobody my faith!

The Christians call us to christianity because they think "the salvation" comes through the teachings of Jesus, and that we must accept him as a god or divine! They want to save us from "the hell."

In the other side, we do the same thing, by calling them in Islam so they can be saved from "the hell."

Obviously one of us is not in the truth! Or both of us according to you!

But, since you believe not in the Bible nor in the Quran, I think it's not your problem this!

[David M]

You missed my point. The Christian would say that the lying scribes were writing things that were contrary to the Law, not that they were able to actually corrupt the law itself.

And again, you can find worse problems in the Quran that you just "explain away" so you must allow Christians the same freedom with their Scriptures or you will be shown to be inconsistent and your argument will fail.

Richard and I might often disagree because of how we each understand certain passages in the Bible, but Richard is correct to point out apparent contradictions and errors in the Bible and the Quran and let each to his own give an explanation to resolve those contradictions and errors.

From what has been said so far, I have less to disagree with Richard about than culi26. This is where the arguments that exist between Bible believers and Quran believers are between me (or any other Christian) and culi26, with Richard as referee. Unfortunately, Richard is not a perfect impartial referee, otherwise Richard would present all possible interpretations and not just the interpretations he has come to accept, but since it is difficult for an impartial referee to know as much about the Bible and the Quran without being influenced by one or both, then Richard is as good as we can expect.

To stay on track with this thread, I will say that the Law, as it was given to Moses, was not corrupted. The Ten Commandments are in tact and have not been corrupted. Jesus said (Matt 5:17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Jesus then gave the two great commandments summing up all of what the 10 commandments meant.

What the the Scribes and Pharisees had done with the original law (including health and hygiene laws and laws relating to sacrifices etc) given to Moses, was like taking the two great commandments (as if the 10 commandments were not known), and trying to determine what was meant by the two commandments. Would anyone have ever thought of the 10 commandments, given only two commandments in the first place? God did give further instruction concerning some of the basic laws in the ten commandments.

An example of how the law/God's instructions were interpreted, is the law relating to the Sabbath in which no work was to be done. It was meant as a day-off from doing the "work" that would be done during the other 6 days. It was meant as a day of rest which the body benefits from, and also it was (and still is) good that God's people should devote one day of the week to worshiping God (their maker) and thinking about spiritual matters (which are of more importance than earthly matters).

What the Scribes and the Pharisees were teaching the people in Jesus' day had become a burden on the people and they were teaching the people doctrines that were not of God, but of men. Jesus says;(Matt 15) (7) Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, (8) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. (9) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

We should note that the Law was to be changed, but not by the hands of men. As Paul wrote; the Law was only ever given as a Schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, who fulfilled the law. As Jesus said; (Matt 15:18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
and also,
(Matt 23:2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: (3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. (4) For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Reading the whole of the Jewish law, as it is now, is of no importance to me, since the additions to the law are clearly the uninspired writings of men. To give one example of how technology has been used to overcome the definition of "work on the Sabbath", the touchless electronic switch has now meant that Jews can turn on and off electric lights or anything else that can be controlled by this type of switch. Before the touchless switch came along, Jews were not allowed to operate a switch on the Sabbath because the action was regarded as work.. This goes to show the lengths, to which the Jews have gone to in order to interpret the basic law. They have used technology as a way to get around the law (which themselves they have made burdensome).

Jesus as on all occasions, got to the heart of the matter which is to do a person's motives (their heart). So long as a person's heart is right with God, and a person's motives are good before God, then observing the law in the way the Jews are interpreting it, does not matter.

The Bible is full or warnings about being deceived and listening to lying words. We have been reminded of what Paul warned would happen in the post above this, and similar warnings were given to Israel and to us (if we learn the lessons contained in the Bible). For example; Isa 32:7 The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right. Therefore, when it comes to checking whether we are being told a bunch of lies, we should always check what is said with what the Bible says (E&OE). Those who are poor in spirit need to be very careful from what is read on this forum as many of the posts contain lying words when compared with what the Bible says.

I can be accused by others of lying words whenever I give my understanding of passages of the Bible. In the main, I will quote from the Bible and will find the answers in the Bible and let the Bible answer for itself. For this reason, I will only reason from the Bible, so we get to understand the Bible correctly. In so doing, I will be judged according to what the Apostle Peter has written; (1 Peter 3:16) Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

So, in conclusion, I will let the psalmist say what God's law meant to him (and I concur).
Psalm 19
7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.


David

[culi26]

Richard and I might often disagree because of how we each understand certain passages in the Bible, but Richard is correct to point out apparent contradictions and errors in the Bible and the Quran and let each to his own give an explanation to resolve those contradictions and errors.

From what has been said so far, I have less to disagree with Richard about than culi26. This is where the arguments that exist between Bible believers and Quran believers are between me (or any other Christian) and culi26, with Richard as referee. Unfortunately, Richard is not a perfect impartial referee, otherwise Richard would present all possible interpretations and not just the interpretations he has come to accept, but since it is difficult for an impartial referee to know as much about the Bible and the Quran without being influenced by one or both, then Richard is as good as we can expect.

To stay on track with this thread, I will say that the Law, as it was given to Moses, was not corrupted. The Ten Commandments are in tact and have not been corrupted. Jesus said (Matt 5:17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Jesus then gave the two great commandments summing up all of what the 10 commandments meant.

What the the Scribes and Pharisees had done with the original law (including health and hygiene laws and laws relating to sacrifices etc) given to Moses, was like taking the two great commandments (as if the 10 commandments were not known), and trying to determine what was meant by the two commandments. Would anyone have ever thought of the 10 commandments, given only two commandments in the first place? God did give further instruction concerning some of the basic laws in the ten commandments.

An example of how the law/God's instructions were interpreted, is the law relating to the Sabbath in which no work was to be done. It was meant as a day-off from doing the "work" that would be done during the other 6 days. It was meant as a day of rest which the body benefits from, and also it was (and still is) good that God's people should devote one day of the week to worshiping God (their maker) and thinking about spiritual matters (which are of more importance than earthly matters).

What the Scribes and the Pharisees were teaching the people in Jesus' day had become a burden on the people and they were teaching the people doctrines that were not of God, but of men. Jesus says;(Matt 15) (7) Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, (8) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. (9) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

We should note that the Law was to be changed, but not by the hands of men. As Paul wrote; the Law was only ever given as a Schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, who fulfilled the law. As Jesus said; (Matt 15:18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
and also,
(Matt 23:2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: (3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. (4) For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Reading the whole of the Jewish law, as it is now, is of no importance to me, since the additions to the law are clearly the uninspired writings of men. To give one example of how technology has been used to overcome the definition of "work on the Sabbath", the touchless electronic switch has now meant that Jews can turn on and off electric lights or anything else that can be controlled by this type of switch. Before the touchless switch came along, Jews were not allowed to operate a switch on the Sabbath because the action was regarded as work.. This goes to show the lengths, to which the Jews have gone to in order to interpret the basic law. They have used technology as a way to get around the law (which themselves they have made burdensome).

Jesus as on all occasions, got to the heart of the matter which is to do a person's motives (their heart). So long as a person's heart is right with God, and a person's motives are good before God, then observing the law in the way the Jews are interpreting it, does not matter.

The Bible is full or warnings about being deceived and listening to lying words. We have been reminded of what Paul warned would happen in the post above this, and similar warnings were given to Israel and to us (if we learn the lessons contained in the Bible). For example; Isa 32:7 The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right. Therefore, when it comes to checking whether we are being told a bunch of lies, we should always check what is said with what the Bible says (E&OE). Those who are poor in spirit need to be very careful from what is read on this forum as many of the posts contain lying words when compared with what the Bible says.

I can be accused by others of lying words whenever I give my understanding of passages of the Bible. In the main, I will quote from the Bible and will find the answers in the Bible and let the Bible answer for itself. For this reason, I will only reason from the Bible, so we get to understand the Bible correctly. In so doing, I will be judged according to what the Apostle Peter has written; (1 Peter 3:16) Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

So, in conclusion, I will let the psalmist say what God's law meant to him (and I concur).
Psalm 19
7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.


David

Thank you for the Informations!
The Law of God for me isn't just the TEN commandments, but every single commandment we find in the Bible, and there are a lot!

But, this is why I have said: "Two Arguments for the possible corruption of the Law(the Bible)

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I'm surprised you linked to White's refutation since he clearly showed that his Muslim opponent made a lot of errors in logic and facts.

Muslims are just human beings! But that wasn't my point anyway!

Of course Muslims are humans! That wasn't my point at all.

My point was that the arguments White refuted in the video are your arguments. So why did you post a video that refuted your own arguments? That doesn't make any sense.

You're apsolutely wrong, we do know the origin of the Quran! I have shown you a web-site where you can read about it, but obviously you haven't done it!

Read it: http://www.answering-christianity.co...ther_books.htm

You've got to be joking! That page starts off with the ludicrous assertion that there was "only one original Arabic copy" of the Quran. He doesn't know anything about the real history of the Quran. There was no "original copy."

And then he wrote this absurdity: "There are no variances or missing parts in the Noble Quran."

Give me a break! That article is made up of nothing but assertions that directly contradict known facts. He is obviously totally brainwashed and has no love of truth at all.

Why would you post such an obviously fallacious article? Don't you know anything about the history of your own religion?

Contradicts? Really? You're so funny! I thought there are no contradicts in the Quran!

You thought wrong.

There are many contradictions. Why do you think Muslims invented the doctrine of abrogation?

And you know that there are many "apparent" contradictions. You just think they can all be "explained." That's exactly what fundamentalist Christians think about the Bible. But you don't believe their explanations, so why should they believe yours?

All religious books contain errors. And that's why fundamentalism corrupts the minds of believers. They can't admit the truth even when it slaps them in the face.

It's not important what Christians would say! It's their problem if they accept that the Law is corrupted or deny it!
I do not have any interest in this world, if any Christian will admit that the Bible is corrupted.
But, who knows, maybe there is a christian who would think about it!

If you have no interest in proving the Law was corrupted, why did you try to prove the law was corrupted?

The Christians call us to christianity because they think "the salvation" comes through the teachings of Jesus, and that we must accept him as a god or divine! They want to save us from "the hell."

In the other side, we do the same thing, by calling them in Islam so they can be saved from "the hell."

Obviously one of us is not in the truth! Or both of us according to you!

But, since you believe not in the Bible nor in the Quran, I think it's not your problem this!

Yes indeed, I believe both Islam and Christianity are far from the truth.

It was my "problem" for the fifteen years I was a fervent Christian. Now it's just my "interest." I hope you don't mind ...