I still am in disagreement with your understanding of it's meaning and of your use of the scripture to codify or legislate a conditional ordinance. I disagree with the underlined and boldened perspectives above but I see that you used the right word "demonstrate' above.
Originally Posted by TheForgiven
Baptism is just one means of public expression [and likely the most meaningful and close resemblence] expression. It is a symbolic expression, but there are other means, including verbal confession with the mouth that Jesus's Is Lord/Creator and that his resurrection from the dead verified the truth of his deity and the truthfulness and Authority of his Words. A persons 'changed and positive life' along with a willingness to confess Christ is another means of public expression.
It is the historic meaning that the expression of baptism had at that time which is important. Without that, it is just a religious ordinance which Christ came to free from and abolish, not set up.
Baptism, in going under the water [like the red sea crossers went under water] is an expression that it's participants were willing to give allegience to Moses and God even unto death. They had abandoned all other hope for their lives and placed all hope in Moses and God. This is part of the weight of Christian baptism that is missed due to it's being reguarded as a conditional ordinance to "OBTAIN" 'salvation' and relationship with God. It is NOT, but rather a public expression of a previous internal spiritual occurance and witness. The things you mentioned [underlined above] occur spiritually and internally with physical baptism being one possible means of expressing and communicationg that change. It represents that the person has placed faith in Christ and no other way and that the person has recieved affirmation and approval during that placement of faith.
'not the washing of water, but the pledge of a good Conscience [with reguard to the truth revealed within you and with regard to the way Christ died] towards God.
No man can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the internal witness of the Holy Spirit. Why? Because his life may be put in jeapordy [especially at that time period] because of that confession.
If a group of men are riding through the desert on motorcycles and during camp they share with one another. The one man comes to believe on the Creator of Life, his incarnation and words through Christ and of his verification through resurrection, and of his unconditional favor of life through that faith, and then confesses that faith to his friends and that he has been internally changed... But there is no water? Your saying that he has not been "saved" from the previous absence of supernatural and positive, loving friendship with the living Creator.
Just like 'saved' has a different meaning in Rom 11:26 than being justified by faith, establishing this confirmed relationship with the Father, and crossing over death to eternal life, so also it can have different meanings when used by Peter when he says 'baptism' now SAVES" you. It is a saving from the timidity of making a public confession and saving from relinquishing to the possible fearof persecution that making a public confession would bring. I think it was a publick mark or expression of leaving Moses and hope in Judaism [or other isms] for Freedom in Christ and Grace and truth of Life. It 'saved' them from timidity by publickly announcing their departure from Moses and conditional, corporal, territorial law. They 'expatriated' from national, religious house of judah and from any hope in the mosaic covenant or law.
Recall how John the B was beheaded.
Last edited by EndtimesDeut32/70AD; 08-07-2012 at 03:24 PM.
1Thess 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
If you are oppressed and enslaved by religious law, you may have a tendency to oppress, enslave and attempt to lord over others who are free.