Are Adam and Christ "one and the same"?

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I was having a conversation with sylvius on the comment thread under my article The Love of Truth: A Fundamental Contradiction in the Heart of the Bible. The topic digressed far from the point of my article (which is very common in any forum discussion, as we all know) so I thought I would continue it here in its own thread.

That the first Adam and the last Adam are one and the same might be also clear from Genesis 2:7, where "vayyitzer" is written with two letters "yud",

Rashi:

וַיִּיצֶר, with two “yuds,” hints at] two creations, a creation for this world and a creation for the [time of the] resurrection of the dead, but in connection with the animals, which do not stand in judgment, two“yuds” are not written in [the word וַיִּצֶר describing their creation. — [from Tan. Tazria 1]

I don't understand what you mean. Adam sinned. Christ did not. How can they be "one and the same"?

[sylvius]

Jewish tradition knows Adam Kadmon.
Who is that?
Wikipedia has some about him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Kadmon
also about Paul:

Pauline Christianity

The above-quoted Midrash is even of greater importance for the understanding of the Pauline Christology, as affording the key to Paul's doctrine of the first and second Adam. The main passage in Pauline Christology is 1 Corinthians 15:45-50. According to this there is a double form of man's existence; for God created a heavenly Adam in the spiritual world and an earthly one of clay for the material world. The earthly Adam came first into view, although created last. The first Adam was of flesh and blood and therefore subject to death—merely "a living soul"; the second Adam was "a life-giving spirit"—a spirit whose body, like the heavenly beings in general, was only of a spiritual nature.

As a pupil of Gamaliel, Paul simply operates with conceptions familiar to the Palestinian theologians. Messiah, as the Midrash remarks, is, on the one hand, the first Adam, the original man who existed before Creation, his spirit being already present. On the other hand, he is also the second Adam in so far as his bodily appearance followed the Creation, and inasmuch as, according to the flesh, he is of the posterity of Adam.

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[Richard Amiel McGough]

Jewish tradition knows Adam Kadmon.
Who is that?
Wikipedia has some about him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Kadmon
also about Paul:

-

That page gives fascinating insights into the origin of the Christian doctrines of Christ and the Logos. Thanks!

But your thesis that Christ and Adam were "one and the same" is contradicted in the comments you posted. Specifically: "With Philo the first man is the original man; Paul identifies the original man with the second Adam." Christ is not identified with Adam in Christianity.

Pauline Christianity

The above-quoted Midrash is even of greater importance for the understanding of the Pauline Christology, as affording the key to Paul's doctrine of the first and second Adam. The main passage in Pauline Christology is 1 Corinthians 15:45-50. According to this there is a double form of man's existence; for God created a heavenly Adam in the spiritual world and an earthly one of clay for the material world. The earthly Adam came first into view, although created last. The first Adam was of flesh and blood and therefore subject to death—merely "a living soul"; the second Adam was "a life-giving spirit"—a spirit whose body, like the heavenly beings in general, was only of a spiritual nature.

As a pupil of Gamaliel, Paul simply operates with conceptions familiar to the Palestinian theologians. Messiah, as the Midrash remarks, is, on the one hand, the first Adam, the original man who existed before Creation, his spirit being already present. On the other hand, he is also the second Adam in so far as his bodily appearance followed the Creation, and inasmuch as, according to the flesh, he is of the posterity of Adam.

With Philo the original man is an idea; with Paul He is the pre-existent Logos, incarnate as the man Jesus Christ. With Philo the first man is the original man; Paul identifies the original man with the second Adam. The Christian Apostle evidently drew upon the Palestinian theology of his day; but it can not be denied that in ancient times this theology was indebted to the Alexandrians for many of its ideas, and probably among them for that of pre-existence. The Midrash thus considered affords a suitable transition to the Gnostic theories of the original man.

[sylvius]

That page gives fascinating insights into the origin of the Christian doctrines of Christ and the Logos. Thanks!

But your thesis that Christ and Adam were "one and the same" is contradicted in the comments you posted. Specifically: "With Philo the first man is the original man; Paul identifies the original man with the second Adam." Christ is not identified with Adam in Christianity.

Man = Adam

So "Paul identifies the original Adam with the second Adam."

[weeder]

Man = Adam

So "Paul identifies the original Adam with the second Adam."

Paul also concludes that the second Adam (Christ) created the first Adam.

Colossians 1

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Man = Adam

So "Paul identifies the original Adam with the second Adam."

That is a very elementary logical fallacy. You have simply equivocated on the meaning of the word "adam."

The word "adam" means "man." The name Adam denotes a particular man - the first - not all men.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Paul also concludes that the second Adam (Christ) created the first Adam.

Colossians 1

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.

That's right. The idea that Adam = Christ is totally absurd from a Biblical point of view.

[sylvius]

That is a very elementary logical fallacy. You have simply equivocated on the meaning of the word "adam."

The word "adam" means "man." The name Adam denotes a particular man - the first - not all men.

1 Corinthians 15:45-47,

οὕτως καὶ γέγραπται, Ἐγένετο ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος Ἀδὰμ εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν: ὁ ἔσχατος Ἀδὰμ εἰς πνεῦμα ζῳοποιοῦν. ἀλλ' οὐ πρῶτον τὸ πνευματικὸν ἀλλὰ τὸ ψυχικόν, ἔπειτα τὸ πνευματικόν. ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος ἐκ γῆς χοϊκός, ὁ δεύτερος ἄνθρωπος ἐξ οὐρανοῦ.

So also it is written, "The first man, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural ; then the spiritual. The first man is from the earth, earthy ; the second man is from heaven.