More People Question the Existence of God

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Your spirit needs...To be connected To "God" The Holy Spirit! To Believe and Understand Truth...All Scripture....The Entire Context of The Written Word...Rightly Dividing The Word...

That's a lovely thought, but in practice it proves to be utterly meaningless because you can take a 1000 people who all think that they "have the Holy Spirit" and are being led by God to "rightly divide the word" but they all come to entirely contradictory conclusions.

This video should help you understand why the Christian claims to having direct leadership by God are totally bogus:

But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." James 4:6

“But he, The Redeemer of the accursed, The Spirit of Holiness, whom my Father sends in my name, he will teach you all things and he will remind you of everything whatsoever I have told you.” John 14:26

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16

So you just believe whatever the Bible says? Why is that? A Muslim would say the same thing about the Quran. How are you any different than a Muslim?

Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires. 2 Peter 3:3

Christians have been thinking it is the "last days" for two thousand years. They were all wrong, but they thought they had the truth just like you.

[Unregistered]

Prophecy...And, All Prophecy! Will Be Fulfilled...Don't, Go By What Man Thinks or Says...

I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please. Isaiah 46:10


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu7iM...eature=related

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Prophecy...And, All Prophecy! Will Be Fulfilled...Don't, Go By What Man Thinks or Says...

I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please. Isaiah 46:10


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu7iM...eature=related

If we should not "go by what man thinks or says" then why did you post a video of a man saying things???? That's totally inconsistent.

The video is so funny I want to put it here:



And worse, the FATSO DUDE talking in the video was so bloated I expected him to fall dead of heart attack at any moment. And to top off the irony, he started off by saying "The numbers are staggering. And despite health clubs and medical advances and healthy diets there are no guarantees that you are I will live to see tomorrow morning." The dude was at least a 150 pounds overweight!

Every Bible you have ever read was produced by humans. Which Bible do you read? The Catholic Bible with the Apocrypha? No? Why not? How do you know which Bible is trustworthy? And why?

All you are doing is mindlessly repeating what you have been told by other Christians - mere fallible men. Yet you think you are speaking absolute truth? Why do you think that? How are you any different than a Muslim who believes that the Quran is the Word of God?

This is the question the video asks - is there a way to know for sure? He begins with a false interpretation of the verse that says "All scripture is inspired by God." When Paul wrote that verse, the Bible was not complete, so he could not have been talking about the Bible. He was talking about the only Scriptures he knew, the Old Testament. And we don't even know which books he was talking about because he didn't say. And that's the problem with the Bible we have today. Which books is it supposed to contain? 66? 72? Is Philemon supposed to be in it? How would you know if some fallible man put in an extra book or took out a few? You can't know. You don't know. So all your beliefs are based on NOTHING but the "teachings of men."

Then he brings up this very question - How can I know the Bible is God's word? Of course, he skips the most important question. How do you know which books it is supposed to contain? The Catholic Bible is different. He asked "What makes THIS ONE so special?". Which one? Obviously, he's talking about the Protestant Bible. But why the other versions? He doesn't say.

Then he makes the absurd and totally false assertion that the Bible is the "infallible and inerrant Word of God." That's absurd. Even if it contained some fulfilled prophecies, it wouldn't prove that it contains no errors at all. And since we can prove that it is filled with errors from beginning to end, his assertion is revealed as utterly absurd and unfounded.

Now I know the video is totally and utterly insane. At 5:10 the narrator just said that the Bible has made "thousands of incredible predictions with 100% accuracy." That is a TOTAL LIE. I challenge you to show a single prophecy that would convince a rational skeptic. Just one! It can't be done.

The narrator claims "Perfect infallible accuracy" - that's just not true!

The man in the video is an OUTRAGEOUS LIAR. He keeps saying there are THOUSANDS of prophecies fulfilled with 100% accuracy. Wow - it blows my mind to see people lie so freely in the name of Christ.

And of course, the video doesn't even present a single fulfilled prophecy. It's nothing but empty claims. LIES, LIES, and more LIES, all in the name of Christ. I am stunned.

You know what the Bible says about liars? It says they are SONS OF THE DEVIL! Think about that next time you share that video. It makes Christians look like deluded, deceiving, crazy lunatics.

[Unregistered]

"(1) Some time before 500 B.C. the prophet Daniel proclaimed that Israel's long-awaited Messiah would begin his public ministry 483 years after the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25-26). He further predicted that the Messiah would be "cut off," killed, and that this event would take place prior to a second destruction of Jerusalem. Abundant documentation shows that these prophecies were perfectly fulfilled in the life (and crucifixion) of Jesus Christ. The decree regarding the restoration of Jerusalem was issued by Persia's King Artaxerxes to the Hebrew priest Ezra in 458 B.C., 483 years later the ministry of Jesus Christ began in Galilee. (Remember that due to calendar changes, the date for the start of Christ's ministry is set by most historians at about 26 A.D. Also note that from 1 B.C. to 1 A.D. is just one year.) Jesus' crucifixion occurred only a few years later, and about four decades later, in 70 A.D. came the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)*

(2) In approximately 700 B.C. the prophet Micah named the tiny village of Bethlehem as the birthplace of Israel's Messiah (Micah 5:2). The fulfillment of this prophecy in the birth of Christ is one of the most widely known and widely celebrated facts in history.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)

(3) In the fifth century B.C. a prophet named Zechariah declared that the Messiah would be betrayed for the price of a slave—thirty pieces of silver, according to Jewish law-and also that this money would be used to buy a burial ground for Jerusalem's poor foreigners (Zechariah 11:12-13). Bible writers and secular historians both record thirty pieces of silver as the sum paid to Judas Iscariot for betraying Jesus, and they indicate that the money went to purchase a "potter's field," used—just as predicted—for the burial of poor aliens (Matthew 27:3-10).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1011.)

(4) Some 400 years before crucifixion was invented, both Israel's King David and the prophet Zechariah described the Messiah's death in words that perfectly depict that mode of execution. Further, they said that the body would be pierced and that none of the bones would be broken, contrary to customary procedure in cases of crucifixion (Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10). Again, historians and New Testament writers confirm the fulfillment: Jesus of Nazareth died on a Roman cross, and his extraordinarily quick death eliminated the need for the usual breaking of bones. A spear was thrust into his side to verify that he was, indeed, dead.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1013.)

(5) The prophet Isaiah foretold that a conqueror named Cyrus would destroy seemingly impregnable Babylon and subdue Egypt along with most of the rest of the known world. This same man, said Isaiah, would decide to let the Jewish exiles in his territory go free without any payment of ransom (Isaiah 44:28; 45:1; and 45:13). Isaiah made this prophecy 150 years before Cyrus was born, 180 years before Cyrus performed any of these feats (and he did, eventually, perform them all), and 80 years before the Jews were taken into exile.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1015.)

(6) Mighty Babylon, 196 miles square, was enclosed not only by a moat, but also by a double wall 330 feet high, each part 90 feet thick. It was said by unanimous popular opinion to be indestructible, yet two Bible prophets declared its doom. These prophets further claimed that the ruins would be avoided by travelers, that the city would never again be inhabited, and that its stones would not even be moved for use as building material (Isaiah 13:17-22 and Jeremiah 51:26, 43). Their description is, in fact, the well-documented history of the famous citadel.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 109.)

(7) The exact location and construction sequence of Jerusalem's nine suburbs was predicted by Jeremiah about 2600 years ago. He referred to the time of this building project as "the last days," that is, the time period of Israel's second rebirth as a nation in the land of Palestine (Jeremiah 31:38-40). This rebirth became history in 1948, and the construction of the nine suburbs has gone forward precisely in the locations and in the sequence predicted.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1018.)

(8) The prophet Moses foretold (with some additions by Jeremiah and Jesus) that the ancient Jewish nation would be conquered twice and that the people would be carried off as slaves each time, first by the Babylonians (for a period of 70 years), and then by a fourth world kingdom (which we know as Rome). The second conqueror, Moses said, would take the Jews captive to Egypt in ships, selling them or giving them away as slaves to all parts of the world. Both of these predictions were fulfilled to the letter, the first in 607 B.C. and the second in 70 A.D. God's spokesmen said, further, that the Jews would remain scattered throughout the entire world for many generations, but without becoming assimilated by the peoples or of other nations, and that the Jews would one day return to the land of Palestine to re-establish for a second time their nation (Deuteronomy 29; Isaiah 11:11-13; Jeremiah 25:11; Hosea 3:4-5 and Luke 21:23-24).

This prophetic statement sweeps across 3500 years of history to its complete fulfillment—in our lifetime.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 120.)

(9) Jeremiah predicted that despite its fertility and despite the accessibility of its water supply, the land of Edom (today a part of Jordan) would become a barren, uninhabited wasteland (Jeremiah 49:15-20; Ezekiel 25:12-14). His description accurately tells the history of that now bleak region.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)

(10) Joshua prophesied that Jericho would be rebuilt by one man. He also said that the man's eldest son would die when the reconstruction began and that his youngest son would die when the work reached completion (Joshua 6:26). About five centuries later this prophecy found its fulfillment in the life and family of a man named Hiel (1 Kings 16:33-34).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 107).

(11) The day of Elijah's supernatural departure from Earth was predicted unanimously—and accurately, according to the eye-witness account—by a group of fifty prophets (2 Kings 2:3-11).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 109).

(12) Jahaziel prophesied that King Jehoshaphat and a tiny band of men would defeat an enormous, well-equipped, well-trained army without even having to fight. Just as predicted, the King and his troops stood looking on as their foes were supernaturally destroyed to the last man (2 Chronicles 20).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 108).

(13) One prophet of God (unnamed, but probably Shemiah) said that a future king of Judah, named Josiah, would take the bones of all the occultic priests (priests of the "high places") of Israel's King Jeroboam and burn them on Jeroboam's altar (1 Kings 13:2 and 2 Kings 23:15-18). This event occurred approximately 300 years after it was foretold.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1013).

Since these thirteen prophecies cover mostly separate and independent events, the probability of chance occurrence for all thirteen is about 1 in 10138 (138 equals the sum of all the exponents of 10 in the probability estimates above). For the sake of putting the figure into perspective, this probability can be compared to the statistical chance that the second law of thermodynamics will be reversed in a given situation (for example, that a gasoline engine will refrigerate itself during its combustion cycle or that heat will flow from a cold body to a hot body)—that chance = 1 in 1080. Stating it simply, based on these thirteen prophecies alone, the Bible record may be said to be vastly more reliable than the second law of thermodynamics. Each reader should feel free to make his own reasonable estimates of probability for the chance fulfillment of the prophecies cited here. In any case, the probabilities deduced still will be absurdly remote.

Given that the Bible proves so reliable a document, there is every reason to expect that the remaining 500 prophecies, those slated for the "time of the end," also will be fulfilled to the last letter. Who can afford to ignore these coming events, much less miss out on the immeasurable blessings offered to anyone and everyone who submits to the control of the Bible's author, Jesus Christ? Would a reasonable person take lightly God's warning of judgment for those who reject what they know to be true about Jesus Christ and the Bible, or who reject Jesus' claim on their lives?

*The estimates of probability included herein come from a group of secular research scientists. As an example of their method of estimation, consider their calculations for this first prophecy cited:

Since the Messiah's ministry could conceivably begin in any one of about 5000 years, there is, then, one chance in about 5000 that his ministry could begin in 26 A.D.
Since the Messiah is God in human form, the possibility of his being killed is considerably low, say less than one chance in 10.
Relative to the second destruction of Jerusalem, this execution has roughly an even chance of occurring before or after that event, that is, one chance in 2.
Hence, the probability of chance fulfillment for this prophecy is 1 in 5000 x 10 x 2, which is 1 in 100,000, or 1 in 105."

http://www.reasons.org/articles/arti...y-of-the-bible

[Richard Amiel McGough]

"(1) Some time before 500 B.C. the prophet Daniel proclaimed that Israel's long-awaited Messiah would begin his public ministry 483 years after the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25-26). He further predicted that the Messiah would be "cut off," killed, and that this event would take place prior to a second destruction of Jerusalem. Abundant documentation shows that these prophecies were perfectly fulfilled in the life (and crucifixion) of Jesus Christ. The decree regarding the restoration of Jerusalem was issued by Persia's King Artaxerxes to the Hebrew priest Ezra in 458 B.C., 483 years later the ministry of Jesus Christ began in Galilee. (Remember that due to calendar changes, the date for the start of Christ's ministry is set by most historians at about 26 A.D. Also note that from 1 B.C. to 1 A.D. is just one year.) Jesus' crucifixion occurred only a few years later, and about four decades later, in 70 A.D. came the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)*

This is the best example of a prophecy that "almost works." I have written a full analysis in my article called Daniel's 70 Years were fulfilled in 70 AD. I wrote that article when I was a Christian, and I concluded that it was a valid prophecy. But I also was a careful thinker back then even as I am now, so I was careful to speak truth and not mere religious propaganda. There are many problems with the prophecy. There is no certainty about when the decree went forth. There is no certainty about the date when Christ began his ministry or when he was killed. The original prophecy in Daniel is quite ambiguous - it speaks of "a messiah" not "THE MESSIAH." It could refer to Christ, but the text simply doesn't make that point clear. And there is no certainty that the 70 weeks were supposed to be interpreted as years. And there are many different interpretations because of the odd way that the years are divided into 7, 62, and 1. At each point where an assumption is made, we must include the probability that we chose the correct answer. Even if we are very lucky and have say a 75% chance of being right about each choice, the result after five such choices is .75⁵ x 100% = 23%! These are the real stats that religious propagandists ignore so they can fool their gullible audience, and this is why rational skeptics are not impressed by such statistical shenanigans. After all my careful analysis, the best I could do was to come up with a "prophetic window" of about 125 years. I thought that was very impressive at the time, since I began with the assumption that the Bible was true.




This remains the best prophecy I know of. But there is a great irony. The prophecy includes the prediction of the destruction of the Temple which happened in 70 AD. Many Christians have said that this was the best proof for the Bible ever - see this article written back in 1805 called The Destruction of Jerusalem: An Absolute and Irresistible Proof of the Divine Origin of Christianity. This is foundation of the PRETERIST interpretation of eschatology.

Now here's the irony - the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy in 70 AD is rejected by the vast majority of Christians, including Hugh Ross, because it contradicts their unbiblical Futurist eschatology! So the best evidence for the Bible is rejected by the vast majority of modern Christians. How's that for irony?

This proves that such "proofs" are no proofs at all, since even the most Bible-believing Christians reject them when they don't fit their preconceived dogmas!

(2) In approximately 700 B.C. the prophet Micah named the tiny village of Bethlehem as the birthplace of Israel's Messiah (Micah 5:2). The fulfillment of this prophecy in the birth of Christ is one of the most widely known and widely celebrated facts in history.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)

There is absolutely no evidence outside the Bible that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. And we have good reason to believe he was not because Luke says that his family's home town was Nazareth even before he was born. The birth narratives in Matthew and Luke are entirely incoherent with each other. Luke is supposed to be a great historian who spoke with eye-witnesses, but he said nothing about the massacre of the innocents or the flight to Egypt mentioned in Matthew. And worse, he says nothing about Joseph and Mary living in Bethlehem. In Luke, they had to travel there for the census, and then they went immediately back to Nazareth after the 40 days purification. Not so in Matthew! He has them LIVING IN BETHLEHEM for two years, and then fleeing to Egypt! No mention of Nazareth until after they came back from Egypt. And then Matthew invents a prophecy found nowhere in Scripture that says "He would be called a Nazarene" to justify their big move to Nazareth from their home town of Bethlehem. Anyone who would think this is valid evidence for "fulfilled prophecy" is insane. This single error by Hugh Ross is enough to make all his claims suspect. He is obviously a propagandist and not interested in truth at all.

It's hard to believe that anyone would present this kind of "fulfilled prophecy" as proof of anything because there is no objective evidence to support it. It's a lot easier to make up a story after the fact than to predict the future.

FAIL.

(3) In the fifth century B.C. a prophet named Zechariah declared that the Messiah would be betrayed for the price of a slave—thirty pieces of silver, according to Jewish law-and also that this money would be used to buy a burial ground for Jerusalem's poor foreigners (Zechariah 11:12-13). Bible writers and secular historians both record thirty pieces of silver as the sum paid to Judas Iscariot for betraying Jesus, and they indicate that the money went to purchase a "potter's field," used—just as predicted—for the burial of poor aliens (Matthew 27:3-10).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1011.)

This is another absurd attempt to "prove prophecy." The "prophecy" itself is not explicitly about the Messiah. And the story could have been made up after the fact to fit the "prophecy." It happens all the time and it seems very likely since we have conflicting accounts in Matthew and Acts. Acts says Judas bought the field himself and then his bowels burst open, whereas Matthew says he hanged himself and then the priests a plot of land! I know that Christians think they can "harmonize" all these contradictions, but when they are done, nothing remains of the "proof" of fulfilled prophecy.

FAIL.

(4) Some 400 years before crucifixion was invented, both Israel's King David and the prophet Zechariah described the Messiah's death in words that perfectly depict that mode of execution. Further, they said that the body would be pierced and that none of the bones would be broken, contrary to customary procedure in cases of crucifixion (Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10). Again, historians and New Testament writers confirm the fulfillment: Jesus of Nazareth died on a Roman cross, and his extraordinarily quick death eliminated the need for the usual breaking of bones. A spear was thrust into his side to verify that he was, indeed, dead.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1013.)

It is probably true that Christ was crucified. And there is a mysterious link to Psalm 22. But the Psalm is not presented as a "prophecy" of anything, so it cannot be an example of a "fulfilled prophecy." Something mysterious might be going on, like "fulfilled typology" or something like that, but this cannot be used to convince a rational skeptic that God was simply "predicting the future" and that this is proof.

FAIL.

(5) The prophet Isaiah foretold that a conqueror named Cyrus would destroy seemingly impregnable Babylon and subdue Egypt along with most of the rest of the known world. This same man, said Isaiah, would decide to let the Jewish exiles in his territory go free without any payment of ransom (Isaiah 44:28; 45:1; and 45:13). Isaiah made this prophecy 150 years before Cyrus was born, 180 years before Cyrus performed any of these feats (and he did, eventually, perform them all), and 80 years before the Jews were taken into exile.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1015.)

Most scholars believe Isaiah 44-45 was written after the fact.

FAIL.

(6) Mighty Babylon, 196 miles square, was enclosed not only by a moat, but also by a double wall 330 feet high, each part 90 feet thick. It was said by unanimous popular opinion to be indestructible, yet two Bible prophets declared its doom. These prophets further claimed that the ruins would be avoided by travelers, that the city would never again be inhabited, and that its stones would not even be moved for use as building material (Isaiah 13:17-22 and Jeremiah 51:26, 43). Their description is, in fact, the well-documented history of the famous citadel.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 109.)

Those prophecies are totally incoherent. They predicted things that didn't happen. We discussed this at length in the thread Does Fulfilled Prophecy Prove the Bible?. No Bible believer was able to prove their case.

FAIL.

(7) The exact location and construction sequence of Jerusalem's nine suburbs was predicted by Jeremiah about 2600 years ago. He referred to the time of this building project as "the last days," that is, the time period of Israel's second rebirth as a nation in the land of Palestine (Jeremiah 31:38-40). This rebirth became history in 1948, and the construction of the nine suburbs has gone forward precisely in the locations and in the sequence predicted.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1018.)

I'll have to research this one.

(8) The prophet Moses foretold (with some additions by Jeremiah and Jesus) that the ancient Jewish nation would be conquered twice and that the people would be carried off as slaves each time, first by the Babylonians (for a period of 70 years), and then by a fourth world kingdom (which we know as Rome). The second conqueror, Moses said, would take the Jews captive to Egypt in ships, selling them or giving them away as slaves to all parts of the world. Both of these predictions were fulfilled to the letter, the first in 607 B.C. and the second in 70 A.D. God's spokesmen said, further, that the Jews would remain scattered throughout the entire world for many generations, but without becoming assimilated by the peoples or of other nations, and that the Jews would one day return to the land of Palestine to re-establish for a second time their nation (Deuteronomy 29; Isaiah 11:11-13; Jeremiah 25:11; Hosea 3:4-5 and Luke 21:23-24).

This prophetic statement sweeps across 3500 years of history to its complete fulfillment—in our lifetime.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 120.)

I'll have to research this one.

(9) Jeremiah predicted that despite its fertility and despite the accessibility of its water supply, the land of Edom (today a part of Jordan) would become a barren, uninhabited wasteland (Jeremiah 49:15-20; Ezekiel 25:12-14). His description accurately tells the history of that now bleak region.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)

No specifics are given, so I'll have to research this one too.

(10) Joshua prophesied that Jericho would be rebuilt by one man. He also said that the man's eldest son would die when the reconstruction began and that his youngest son would die when the work reached completion (Joshua 6:26). About five centuries later this prophecy found its fulfillment in the life and family of a man named Hiel (1 Kings 16:33-34).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 107).

This is another case of assuming the Bible is true to prove the Bible is true. The same person who wrote the prophecy also recorded it fulfillment, and there is no evidence that he didn't just make it up.

FAIL.

(11) The day of Elijah's supernatural departure from Earth was predicted unanimously—and accurately, according to the eye-witness account—by a group of fifty prophets (2 Kings 2:3-11).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 109).

What a joke. There's no evidence that Elijah ever "ascended" let alone that it was predicted.

FAIL.

(12) Jahaziel prophesied that King Jehoshaphat and a tiny band of men would defeat an enormous, well-equipped, well-trained army without even having to fight. Just as predicted, the King and his troops stood looking on as their foes were supernaturally destroyed to the last man (2 Chronicles 20).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 108).

Another fallacy? He is again assuming the Bible is true to prove it is true. Is there no end to the insanity spewed out by Hugh Ross?

FAIL.

(13) One prophet of God (unnamed, but probably Shemiah) said that a future king of Judah, named Josiah, would take the bones of all the occultic priests (priests of the "high places") of Israel's King Jeroboam and burn them on Jeroboam's altar (1 Kings 13:2 and 2 Kings 23:15-18). This event occurred approximately 300 years after it was foretold.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1013).

And yet another example of the fundamental fallacy of assuming the Bible is true to prove it is true. How is it possible that anyone could publish such crap?

FAIL.

Since these thirteen prophecies cover mostly separate and independent events, the probability of chance occurrence for all thirteen is about 1 in 10138 (138 equals the sum of all the exponents of 10 in the probability estimates above). For the sake of putting the figure into perspective, this probability can be compared to the statistical chance that the second law of thermodynamics will be reversed in a given situation (for example, that a gasoline engine will refrigerate itself during its combustion cycle or that heat will flow from a cold body to a hot body)—that chance = 1 in 1080. Stating it simply, based on these thirteen prophecies alone, the Bible record may be said to be vastly more reliable than the second law of thermodynamics. Each reader should feel free to make his own reasonable estimates of probability for the chance fulfillment of the prophecies cited here. In any case, the probabilities deduced still will be absurdly remote.

Given that the Bible proves so reliable a document, there is every reason to expect that the remaining 500 prophecies, those slated for the "time of the end," also will be fulfilled to the last letter. Who can afford to ignore these coming events, much less miss out on the immeasurable blessings offered to anyone and everyone who submits to the control of the Bible's author, Jesus Christ? Would a reasonable person take lightly God's warning of judgment for those who reject what they know to be true about Jesus Christ and the Bible, or who reject Jesus' claim on their lives?

*The estimates of probability included herein come from a group of secular research scientists. As an example of their method of estimation, consider their calculations for this first prophecy cited:

Since the Messiah's ministry could conceivably begin in any one of about 5000 years, there is, then, one chance in about 5000 that his ministry could begin in 26 A.D.
Since the Messiah is God in human form, the possibility of his being killed is considerably low, say less than one chance in 10.
Relative to the second destruction of Jerusalem, this execution has roughly an even chance of occurring before or after that event, that is, one chance in 2.
Hence, the probability of chance fulfillment for this prophecy is 1 in 5000 x 10 x 2, which is 1 in 100,000, or 1 in 105."

http://www.reasons.org/articles/arti...y-of-the-bible

What a ludicrous load of bullshit.

Now look at his claim at the top of his page:

Unique among all books ever written, the Bible accurately foretells specific events-in detail-many years, sometimes centuries, before they occur. Approximately 2500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible, about 2000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letter—no errors.

2500 prophecies? No errors? Hugh Ross if freaking INSANE. And he has deceived how many gullible Christians?

How pathetic!

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I refuted the ridiculous claims of Hugh Ross in a matter of minutes off the top of my head. His errors were so thick I could spend hours exposing them all. His primary error is that he assumes the Bible is true so that if the Bible says a prophecy was fulfilled, then well ... it was fulfilled! Simply stated, Hugh Ross would FAIL an introductory course in logic. How he ever got a Ph.D. is totally beyond me. I guess it's just an example of how fundamentalist religion corrupts the mind.

In any case, a quick Google search brings up long pages where many of his errors are exposed for all to see:

http://www.theskepticalreview.com/tsrmag/1unpro96.html

[Unregistered]

Remember! Don't Take The Mark...11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666. Revelation 13


Matthew 24 : 32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

No One Knows the Day or Hour

36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

The Faithful Servant and the Evil Servant

45 “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[David M]

I refuted the ridiculous claims of Hugh Ross in a matter of minutes off the top of my head. His errors were so thick I could spend hours exposing them all. His primary error is that he assumes the Bible is true so that if the Bible says a prophecy was fulfilled, then well ... it was fulfilled! Simply stated, Hugh Ross would FAIL an introductory course in logic. How he ever got a Ph.D. is totally beyond me. I guess it's just an example of how fundamentalist religion corrupts the mind.

In any case, a quick Google search brings up long pages where many of his errors are exposed for all to see:

http://www.theskepticalreview.com/tsrmag/1unpro96.html

I am not supporting Hugh Ross even if I agree with some of his statements. Richard admits that he has to research some of the prophecies and that is good. Farrel Till gives a reasoned response, though at first his repeated use of the word "ridiculous" bears no weight to his argument and (for me) detracts from the strength of his argument. It is one of the 38 dishonest tricks to try and win an argument, by belittling your opponents argument.

When reading Farrel Till's explanation of Micah referring to Bethlehem, it occurred to me that he is trying to fit a man-made reason to what is an inspirational piece of writing. And this is the problem with all of God's inspired word; who is to say what the writers understood from what they wrote? "Inspired" means that they were directed to write the words coming from God. How do we know whether man's creative thoughts have been self-generated or inspired by God. This can account for why men's creative thoughts have lead to the expansion of scientific discovery and technological achievement. Without a few moments of creative genius/discovery (God's inspiration?) we would still be in the dark ages; technologically speaking.

It does not matter if Micah did not know the relevance of what he was writing. This makes it more miraculous that Jesus was born in Bethlehem and if Micah did not know the full import of what he was writing, why should we think the gospel writers were picking up these facts to fit in after the event? It is no more an assumption to use this explanation as an argument against fulfilled scripture. There might have been reasons to think that Micah expected a Messiah to come and deliver Israel from their enemies at that time of his writing, and this is no different to when Israel expected Jesus (as their future Messiah) to deliver them from the Roman occupation and thus restore the kingdom to Israel. That did not happen and it was not the time for Jesus to be the Messiah to save the nation of Israel; that time is still future. Even though the Apostle Paul was the apostle chosen to spread the gospel to the gentiles, nevertheless, he said; "for the hope of Israel, I am bound with these chains" as he was being taken to Rome under Roman guard. The hope of Israel has yet to be fulfilled.

Hindsight is good for spotting associations and seeing the proof of the inspired prophecies. There are Bible scholars who have studied the Bible and predicted the establishment of the nation of Israel before the return of Christ, long before the nation of Israel started to be regathered. These people did not know the date, only that it would happen. These are a minority of Bible scholars to have understood prophecy correctly. Though the date of 1948 was not known, it does not negate the prophecy that the nation of Israel would be restored. There is more than one passage in the Bible that confirms that God would not allow His chosen people to be utterly destroyed and even though God would disperse His chosen race amongst the nations, they would retain their identity and ultimately would regathered and continue as a nation. Now that the nation of Israel has been restored, we are able to confirm many things such as Jesus saying; "this generation" would see the fulfillment of those things he spoke of leading up to his return. We are in the period that is called 'the signs of the times' leading up to the return of Christ.

So, prophecy does not have to be logical, the facts leading behind a prophecy do not have to appear logical, this is the wonder of God's message and His prophetic writings. God will say what is to happen and will then control situations to bring about the fulfillment of His word. We cannot predict what God will do to control man's direction; only we can have confidence that as the prophet Daniel said; "God rules in the kingdoms of men" and that is why people question the suitability of nations' leaders and how they were able to achieve their position. It is because God has put them there. It is man appearing to be in control of his destiny and making the decisions, yet not realizing that God is behind the scenes setting up the obstacles that makes leaders take the decisions they do. Man has already proven as the prophet Jeremiah states;"it is not in man to direct his steps". Man's rule is not restoring the earth, but is destroying it and society is predominantly "evil" instead of "good. Man is fooling himself to think that he has control and will solve the world's problems. God is letting man prove that man is incapable of governing righteously and can bring world peace or solve the world's problems. It is foolish men who have rejected God and God uses "foolish" people to prove to those who are faithful that God is in control and will bring about the promises He has made to His faithful believers. Hence, the wisdom of men is foolishness with God and God's ways defy men's logic. It is no wonder we shall continue to argue about God's word with those who reject it.

All the best

David