More People Question the Existence of God

[CWH]

[QUOTE]

... uhhh ....




25% Truth, 25% Error, 50% Myth/Poetry/Song/Meditation (such things are neither true nor false)

Remember, that's just a rough guess.

That's very low and how can you consider yourself credible in talking about the scriptures if you only believe 25% of the Bible is true. It is like a Physicist who only believe 25% of Physics is true. As for me 95% of the Bible is true, 5% is error, poetry, song, meditation.

Your conclusion makes no sense. So called "macro"-evolution is just micro-evolution over a long span of time.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MACROEVOLUTION but Creation. Micro evolution is simply adaptations.

And your conclusion is not based on science. You reject "macro"-evolution because it contradicts your interpretation of an ancient religious text.

No, because DNA says so and evidence from Creation science. Remember Science is Creationology.

And that's not what you were saying! You were saying that I could not comment on the Bible because I don't believe in it. I responded that meant you could not comment on evolution because you do not believe in it. Do you now retract your statement? Do you admit that you were wrong?

No, I have long believe that micro-creation of sub-species is plausible but Never evolution from one species to another.

We agree about something!

Cheers!

But I still think it is quite obvious you reject much that is in the Bible. You reject all the time texts that say the end times happened in the first century and your argument about the "apostolic age" failed because it was logically incoherent. If you would like to make it coherent, I could help. But if you succeeded and made a coherent definition you would then understand why your argument fails so you probably don't want to do that.

I follow mainly Futrists doctrines which forms almost all Christian believers. Rejectors are mainly those who don't follow mainstream Futurist doctrines.

Well, Biblical eschatology is logically incoherent anyway, so it would be pretty foolish to enter into a debate about it.

Nothing is foolish except those who do not believe there is a God.


In God's Name.

[David M]

Richard Amiel McGough;47037 : Paul was talking about the first century. All the references to the end times in the Bible speak of the first century.

Sorry Richard, if you are really unbiased and do not believe the Bible and are not hanging on to what you have been taught, you should not make statements like this. All you are doing is proving the comment made by Twosprits about you is true.

There are many who do not believe all prophecy was concluded by AD70. To them the Bible does NOT say..... Much prophecy concerning the Jews was conlcuded by the first century, but not the for the Gentiles. We are living in Gentile times and this will come to an end at some predetermined time (which could be soon) set by God.

Once again, please be very careful in your wording, because this is clearly seen as you asserting your point of view. If you are not going to side with me or Twospirits and put our side of the interpretation to give balance to your statements, you must remain impartial and refrain from making statement like this at all. However, I do not think you are capable of doing this yet; I will give you time and keep snapping at your heels everytime I see you do this until you stop. Otherwise, you must tell us outright this is what you believe and not claim this is what the Bible says or someone else says about the Bible.

All the best,

David

P.S. In futue every time I see a statement like the one you have made, I shall reply by stamping NOT TRUE(as is) against all blatantly untrue statements you make. I shall not be entering conversation to say why, as you know, right well, what my reason is.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Paul was talking about the first century. All the references to the end times in the Bible speak of the first century.

Sorry Richard, if you are really unbiased and do not believe the Bible and are not hanging on to what you have been taught, you should not make statements like this. All you are doing is proving the comment made by Twosprits about you is true.

Hey there David,

I have never based my opinions about the Bible on "what I've been taught." Please drop that line. It is not accurate at all. I came to the conclusion about the meaning of the "end times" by reading the Bible. The evidence is as plain as day and no one has ever shown any flaw in my conclusions. They merely make up wild and inconsistent interpretations in an effort to deny what the Bible plainly states.

Which statement of Twospirits are you saying is true?

If you think my assertion is false, it should be very easy for you to refute it. Just show me the facts! I think this would be a great discussion between us since I will confine myself completely to nothing but reasoning from the Bible.

I don't understand why you would say no one can comment on what the Bible says unless they "believe it." If that were true, you couldn't comment on evolution, the Quran, or any other topic you don't believe in.

There are many who do not believe all prophecy was concluded by AD70. To them the Bible does NOT say..... Much prophecy concerning the Jews was conlcuded by the first century, but not the for the Gentiles. We are living in Gentile times and this will come to an end at some predetermined time (which could be soon) set by God.

I never said that all prophecy was concluded by 70 AD. I have frequently said that there could be prophecies yet to be fulfilled. I simply don't know of any that are necessarily future. There are, of course, many that must be future if they are interpreted "literally" but we all know that Futurists don't accept many prophecies as "literal" since if they did they'd have to admit that Preterists have a good case. The inconsistently pick and choose which bits and pieces are "literal" and explain away all the literal verses that don't fit their system. After much study, I have concluded there is no fully consistent system like Futurism or Preterism - any system has problems. But Preterism fits the data better than any other system I've seen, and Futurism as usually presented is simply an impossibility if you accept what the Bible actually states.

It would be better if you just dealt with what I've actually written. I gave many examples of verses that plainly state the "end times" happened in the first century. If you disagree, you need to show why the Bible does really mean what it said.

Once again, please be very careful in your wording, because this is clearly seen as you asserting your point of view. If you are not going to side with me or Twospirits and put our side of the interpretation to give balance to your statements, you must remain impartial and refrain from making statement like this at all. However, I do not think you are capable of doing this yet; I will give you time and keep snapping at your heels everytime I see you do this until you stop.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Everyone on this forum is free to express their opinions on any topic. And everyone is strongly encouraged to state their point of view and the evidence supporting it as clearly as possible.

What "wording" do you think I should not have used?

Maybe there is a confusion about my role on this forum. When I assert my point of view, I am acting as just another member. I am not acting in the role of moderator (which I rarely need to exercise since most folks understand how to communicate on internet forums). So why should I refrain from stating my point of view?

I'm very glad that you will "snap at my heels" .... it's almost as good as holding my feet to the fire, which is what I want!

(It's interesting how we use our feet in such metaphors.)

Otherwise, you must tell us outright this is what you believe and not claim this is what the Bible says or someone else says about the Bible.

Aha! That's what you were getting at. You think that I am merely stating opinions when I simply accept what the Bible says as what the Bible says. That's funny! And it's pretty ironic, because you habitually deny what the Bible says (e.g. angels that sinned, 2 Pet 2:4) in favor of your opinion. And so do CWH and Twospirits when they deny that the Bible says the end times happened in the first century. But when I come along and say the Bible says what it says you get all over my case! That's really funny.

P.S. In futue every time I see a statement like the one you have made, I shall reply by stamping NOT TRUE(as is) against all blatantly untrue statements you make. I shall not be entering conversation to say why, as you know, right well, what my reason is.

I think a much better approach would be for you to demonstrate why I'm wrong. Mere assertions mean nothing, even if they are written in big red font. Sorry, but I thought you knew this.

Great chatting, as always,

Richard

[Richard Amiel McGough]

That's very low and how can you consider yourself credible in talking about the scriptures if you only believe 25% of the Bible is true. It is like a Physicist who only believe 25% of Physics is true. As for me 95% of the Bible is true, 5% is error, poetry, song, meditation.

I just made up those numbers because your question was too silly to answer seriously. No percentages would be meaningful. The question is too complex to be answered with percentages. It would require intelligent discussion, the weighing of many facts, and so forth. If you would like to participate in an intelligent discussion on this topic I would be most pleased to oblige. As it is, you seem to be just playing word games. You rarely answer the questions I ask and go off on wild tangents based on assertions that make no sense. I wish you would settle down a little and try to engage what I actually write. We both would have a much better time, and then you could show me (and everyone else) why I'm wrong rather than merely throwing meaningless words around.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MACROEVOLUTION but Creation. Micro evolution is simply adaptations.

Writing false assertions in ALL CAPS does not make them true.

Why do you think the vast majority of scientists believe so-called "macro"-evolution is true? Can you state the evidence they use to support their conclusions? Can you show why their evidence is fallacious? If not, then you are unqualified to comment.

And your conclusion is not based on science. You reject "macro"-evolution because it contradicts your interpretation of an ancient religious text.

No, because DNA says so and evidence from Creation science. Remember Science is Creationology.

You have not shown that "DNA says so." That's just another empty assertion. Tell me why "DNA says so" and we'll have something to talk about.

And there is no such thing as "creation science." That phrase is an oxymoron.

And that's not what you were saying! You were saying that I could not comment on the Bible because I don't believe in it. I responded that meant you could not comment on evolution because you do not believe in it. Do you now retract your statement? Do you admit that you were wrong?

No, I have long believe that micro-creation of sub-species is plausible but Never evolution from one species to another.

You didn't answer my question. Please read it again and give an answer.

But I still think it is quite obvious you reject much that is in the Bible. You reject all the time texts that say the end times happened in the first century and your argument about the "apostolic age" failed because it was logically incoherent. If you would like to make it coherent, I could help. But if you succeeded and made a coherent definition you would then understand why your argument fails so you probably don't want to do that.

I follow mainly Futrists doctrines which forms almost all Christian believers. Rejectors are mainly those who don't follow mainstream Futurist doctrines.

And that's the problem. You follow "Futurist doctrines" that directly contradict what the Bible plainly states. The fact that there are lots of people that believe falsehoods does not make those falsehoods true.

Nothing is foolish except those who do not believe there is a God.

That's a very foolish statement. Are you a fool for not believing in Allah, Krishna, Apollo, and Zeus?

All the best,

Richard

[mdmridha]

I think we have no scope to think about the existence of God. If we can think deeply then we cant deny. First we can think about our body. "Its really normal to be dead anytime" you will say it if you think about the construction. A lot of systems are always running in our body but can we feel anything without suffering from any disease? I think no we cant.Its a unique creation and of course not of any human. Scientists are inventing a lot of things everyday but till now they cant invent a human body.So how we can deny that creation.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I think we have no scope to think about the existence of God. If we can think deeply then we cant deny. First we can think about our body. "Its really normal to be dead anytime" you will say it if you think about the construction. A lot of systems are always running in our body but can we feel anything without suffering from any disease? I think no we cant.Its a unique creation and of course not of any human. Scientists are inventing a lot of things everyday but till now they cant invent a human body.So how we can deny that creation.

I don't follow your logic. What does our inability to create a human body have to do with whether or not they evolved through natural law?

[Michael D'Agnillo]

GOD IS ALL AROUND....THERE IS NO ESCAPE FROM HIM, HIS SPIRIT, HIS AUTONOMY.......

[Richard Amiel McGough]

GOD IS ALL AROUND....THERE IS NO ESCAPE FROM HIM, HIS SPIRIT, HIS AUTONOMY.......

How do you know that?

What do you mean by "God"?

Which God are you talking about? Allah, Brahman, Yahweh, Zeus?

[Gil]

CWH - Richard,


CWH >

BTW, I expect more people to give up their faith but those who persevere to the end will be saved. Apostle Paul said this is one of the sign of end times when may people give up their faith:

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Gil > This was addressed to the Jews for the most part. Many would give up their faith because they did not understand Paul nor his apostles.
Why? Because Paul said that ,that which was perfect was to come.
The coming of Christ.
Paul never once said that it was to be a physical body coming of Jesus Christ the individual.
It was to be the appearing of the BOC, that which was then to be perfect.
If you understood Paul , you would have seen through his language that the BOC is a whole Body that is of twain made One.
And inner and outer man.
It is within the BOC ( inner ) that the Spirit Christ dwells and reveals himself.
All flesh is of the outer man, but not all flesh is of the inner man.
Those of the outer man are both those of flesh and blood and flesh and bone of the inner man.
One pass's through the death of the flesh and blood to become the flesh and bone.
All within the outer Body do not do this.
Paul said that those within Christ are no longer of the flesh but of the Spirit.
We being dead to the flesh are made alive in the spirit.

It is not the body of the outer man that is being transformed but our inner body which is within Christ.

There were many of those being Jews that awaited their Messiah and thought at the first that he was to make himself manifest if the flesh within the Holy of Holies.
The Priests thought that one day when they went through the curtain, bingo, there he would be standing in all his glory.

Many of those that had taken on Faith in their Messiah through his death and resurrection as taught by the apostles, knew that he had ascended into the presence of his Father and would once again return , but through their eyes they seen this to be a physical appearance and were looking forward and ahead for him to return.
Not way off into the distant future, but shortly, as that time was at hand and was to happen in their lifetime.
It was not to be that way. They began losing their Faith.

How many Christians now days were taught as children that he was coming shortly .
Hang in there son or daughter, it can be any day now.
Only to see in their later years ,even their more senior years that something must have went or been wrong and their faith was found to be melting away.

There is nothing new under the son. Take a lesson from those Jews at the time of the interim period.

What do you think Paul meant when he said we are his Body (of Christ)?

I think its mind boggling that all parts/members are but One Body.
That of Christ.

Gil
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Richard>

What do you mean by "God"?

Which God are you talking about? Allah, Brahman, Yahweh, Zeus?

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Gil > GOD is Spirit, both the Spirit of Light and the Spirit of Life.

Only ONE GOD.

Looking back through time , even the modern scientific community continues their search. Their God particle still alludes them. Isn't he the GOD of strings and quarks?

In reference to Pauline parts and Wholes, their are only Two Spirits.

The God (Spirit of natural Man) is One.
The God ( Spirit within Christ) is One.

That which is natural and that which is Spiritual.
Both Spirits have many parts/members, but all parts and members of each are
but One.

Gil
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[CWH]

Hi Gil, You got me wrong. What I am saying is that Christianity was growing leaps and bounds since AD33 when Jesus started it like a custard seed blossomed into a tree. This was due to conquests, colonization, missionary works. But as we went into the 20th and the 21st century, Christianity seems to be in a downward trend as people began to be brainwashed by atheists and the sciences that disclaimed God, love of riches and luxuries and earthly life and disillusioned by the second coming. Some gave up Christianity totally while others changed ship and join other religions such as Islam. This is also one of the reasons for rise of the popularity of Islam. I do believe that one day Islam will be more popular than Christianity. The situation is like what happened during the Christian persecutions in the 1st and 2nd centuries when many gave up their faith. Do not be despair as those who persevere to the end will be saved. It is a way in which God tests our faith and love in Him.

May God not lead us into temptations.