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  1. #1
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    Question Killing the Canaanites


    The Canaanites died? So what, because dying is like going to sleep; only you don't wake up in the near future, and probably not with the same body. Don't we all enjoy going to sleep? That's when you can forget all your troubles, at least till you awake. But you wouldn't want to wake and discover that you're inside of a strange and perhaps repulsive body; would you? Would you have the same sense as the herd of swine that drowned themselves when the Legion of Devils entered into them? Lk8:33.

    1Cor15:40 "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body".

    2Cor5:2 "For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked".
    John11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

    Yes, we're all going to be PLANTED like seeds, as Our Husbandman has said, but do you expect to be pleased with your New Name and New Body? Rev2:17
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by duxrow View Post

    The Canaanites died? So what, because dying is like going to sleep; only you don't wake up in the near future, and probably not with the same body. Don't we all enjoy going to sleep? That's when you can forget all your troubles, at least till you awake. But you wouldn't want to wake and discover that you're inside of a strange and perhaps repulsive body; would you? Would you have the same sense as the herd of swine that drowned themselves when the Legion of Devils entered into them? Lk8:33.

    1Cor15:40 "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body".

    2Cor5:2 "For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked".
    John11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

    Yes, we're all going to be PLANTED like seeds, as Our Husbandman has said, but do you expect to be pleased with your New Name and New Body? Rev2:17
    Hello Bob,

    I'm sorry, but your post makes no sense to me... The point as I see it is not whether the Canaanites died, because we all die... it's the immoral manner in which god had them killed. Death happens to everyone, whether or not you believe in the biblegod; the problem arises when this biblegod arbitrarily has one group of people killed and allows another group to live merely because of their race or gender.

    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
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    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hello Bob,

    I'm sorry, but your post makes no sense to me... The point as I see it is not whether the Canaanites died, because we all die... it's the immoral manner in which god had them killed. Death happens to everyone, whether or not you believe in the biblegod; the problem arises when this biblegod arbitrarily has one group of people killed and allows another group to live merely because of their race or gender.

    Rose

    Hey Rose, You aren't seeing the Bible as The Instruction Book for LIFE, from the Creator of Life. And it's not 'arbitrary' -- it's directed in the OT against the malefactors, but now in the NT against the lies of the anti-Christ (need I say who that is?)
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by duxrow View Post

    Hey Rose, You aren't seeing the Bible as The Instruction Book for LIFE, from the Creator of Life. And it's not 'arbitrary' -- it's directed in the OT against the malefactors, but now in the NT against the lies of the anti-Christ (need I say who that is?)
    Hey Bob, so you wanna fight...

    Here is a good example of arbitrary...when David defeated the Moabites he forced them to lie on the ground and then arbitrarily killed two for every one he kept alive, all done by gods command.
    2Sam.8:2 And he smote Moab, and measured them with a line, casting them down to the ground; even with two lines he measured those he would put to death, and with one full line those to be kept alive. And so the Moabites became David's servants, and brought gifts.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hey Bob, so you wanna fight...: Here is a good example of arbitrary...when David defeated the Moabites he forced them to lie on the ground and then arbitrarily killed two for every one he kept alive, all done by gods command.
    2Sam.8:2 And he smote Moab, and measured them with a line, casting them down to the ground; even with two lines he measured those he would put to death, and with one full line those to be kept alive.[/B][/COLOR] And so the Moabites became David's servants, and brought gifts.[/INDENT]

    Ps19:4 "Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun".
    Different kinds of lines, you know..

    Gen15:16 "But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full". Levi / Kohath / Amram / Moses The "Iniquity of Americans" must be near full. Don't think we'll see the results as arbitrary, but rather like "vengeance is mine". You think?
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by duxrow View Post

    Ps19:4 "Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun".
    Different kinds of lines, you know..

    Gen15:16 "But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full". Levi / Kohath / Amram / Moses The "Iniquity of Americans" must be near full. Don't think we'll see the results as arbitrary, but rather like "vengeance is mine". You think?
    It's OK, don't worry, I won't fight you anymore...

    So, I guess it's all just metaphor...including god

    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  7. #7
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    Our Confounded Language Gen11:7


    Not metaphor, but Keel-hauling is where the person to be keel-hauled has two ropes tied to him, usually around the waist, and then he gets thrown overboard at the bow of the ship. One of the ropes is carried down the port side of the ship and the other down the starboard side, and the person (or body) is then retrieved at the stern. This is particularly spectacular if the ship is large or if the waters happen to be shark infested.

    "Drawn & Quartered" is where four ropes are tied to the person (arms and legs) and then drawn taut towards the four points of the compass, either by people or horses or perhaps tanks, until the culprit hollers "Uncle".

    "Wishbone" or "Splitsville" is the American Indian version where the tops of two flexible saplings are pulled down and attached securely to either leg before allowing the trees to spring back to their usual position.

    It isn't clear whether the ACLU has declared these forms of punishment as "cruel and unusual", but an exception or example might be made of certain cases, just to keep those options on the table, as appropriate.
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hey Bob, so you wanna fight...

    Here is a good example of arbitrary...when David defeated the Moabites he forced them to lie on the ground and then arbitrarily killed two for every one he kept alive, all done by gods command.
    2Sam.8:2 And he smote Moab, and measured them with a line, casting them down to the ground; even with two lines he measured those he would put to death, and with one full line those to be kept alive. And so the Moabites became David's servants, and brought gifts.
    Hello Rose,

    I agree what David did appears a brutal thing to do. I am curious why David made two lines and whether there was any criteria for the way the two lines were assembled. While I have no answers at this moment I can understand why David killed the Moabites. The Moabites were as bad as the Canaanites. This means that God would not have judged the Moabites to be better than the Canaanites and therefore we might expect the same punishemnt that came upon the Canaanites to come on the Moabites. This would show that God is consistent in what He says and in punishing reprobates who did the the abominable things God hated.

    This is what we find recorded in Zephaniah 2:9 Therefore as I live, saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Surely Moab shall be as Sodom, and the children of Ammon as Gomorrah,

    The nations surrounding Israel were an abomination to God and these nations corrupted Israel. Admittedly , Israel were also responsible as we are told; Ezra 9:1 Now when these things were done, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites. 2 For they have taken of their daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the people of those lands: yea, the hand of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass.

    This does show that all the surrounding nations surrounding Israel were as bad as one another and Israel were to blame for corrupting themsleves by mingling with these nations.

    All this goes to show that all these people were a very bad lot and not of value in God's sight and they were expendable. This goes go to explain why David was allowed to kill the Moabites in the way he did.

    This will not help you get over your hangup on these episodes of violence but it does go a long way in mitigating David's actions. Don't blame David, blame the abominable people.

    Wars and killings of what we read about in this period of history was the order of that day. Many abominable things are done in the world today and have been committed all down the ages, maybe the extent of the abominations done in the name of other gods is not as great now as it was in those days. For the last 2,0000 years, God's chosen people have been scattered, and have been punished in this way for their failings and disobedience to God. They ceased to exist as a nation after the damage had been done. Now the nation of Israel has been restored, we shall see the nation of Israel overrun once more to come and this will occur at the time when God will pour out His judgements on all nations of the earth and especially those that come against Israel. There is coming a Day of Vengeance. This is one aspect of God's nature that is consistent and He will judge all peoples and many will be killed never to live again..

    You can disagaree with me that God is not immoral in killing off reprobates and saving those who are faithful, but that is the way it is and I doubt anyone on the receiving end of God's grace inheriting eternal life is going to disagree with God and say He does not have the right to kill off reprobates. These repbrobates will never enter the Kingdom of God and whilst they could be allowed to die off naturally, God said in advance what He would do. People hav been given warnings and the opportunity to change their ways; if not they suffer the consequences. By God declaring what He will do in advance is proof of the existence of God when these things come to pass. I can see events taking place now that prove what God has predicted is coming to pass. God's judgement on could take place within the next few years; it is definitely coming. The day will come and it will come suddenly and catch many unawares. We cannot say we have not been warned. We ignore God's warning at our peril.

    All the best,

    David

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hello Rose,

    I agree what David did appears a brutal thing to do. I am curious why David made two lines and whether there was any criteria for the way the two lines were assembled. While I have no answers at this moment I can understand why David killed the Moabites. The Moabites were as bad as the Canaanites. This means that God would not have judged the Moabites to be better than the Canaanites and therefore we might expect the same punishemnt that came upon the Canaanites to come on the Moabites. This would show that God is consistent in what He says and in punishing reprobates who did the the abominable things God hated.

    This is what we find recorded in Zephaniah 2:9 Therefore as I live, saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Surely Moab shall be as Sodom, and the children of Ammon as Gomorrah,

    The nations surrounding Israel were an abomination to God and these nations corrupted Israel. Admittedly , Israel were also responsible as we are told; Ezra 9:1 Now when these things were done, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites. 2 For they have taken of their daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the people of those lands: yea, the hand of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass.

    This does show that all the surrounding nations surrounding Israel were as bad as one another and Israel were to blame for corrupting themsleves by mingling with these nations.

    All this goes to show that all these people were a very bad lot and not of value in God's sight and they were expendable. This goes go to explain why David was allowed to kill the Moabites in the way he did.
    Hello David,

    The arbitrary way in which God told David to kill the Moabites explains nothing! First off, if all the Moabites were wicked and corrupted, why did God allow any of them to live? Secondly, if only some of them were wicked, then randomly killing them does not assure all the evil ones will be killed, but does assure some innocent people will be killed. Thirdly, there is nothing whatsoever consistent about how God chose to kill the Moabites, it's immoral and abominable.

    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    This will not help you get over your hangup on these episodes of violence but it does go a long way in mitigating David's actions. Don't blame David, blame the abominable people.

    Wars and killings of what we read about in this period of history was the order of that day. Many abominable things are done in the world today and have been committed all down the ages, maybe the extent of the abominations done in the name of other gods is not as great now as it was in those days. For the last 2,0000 years, God's chosen people have been scattered, and have been punished in this way for their failings and disobedience to God. They ceased to exist as a nation after the damage had been done. Now the nation of Israel has been restored, we shall see the nation of Israel overrun once more to come and this will occur at the time when God will pour out His judgements on all nations of the earth and especially those that come against Israel. There is coming a Day of Vengeance. This is one aspect of God's nature that is consistent and He will judge all peoples and many will be killed never to live again..
    I'm sorry that you consider a reaction to immoral acts of violence to be a "Hangup"...where's your compassion? Has Christianity hardened your heart?

    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    You can disagaree with me that God is not immoral in killing off reprobates and saving those who are faithful, but that is the way it is and I doubt anyone on the receiving end of God's grace inheriting eternal life is going to disagree with God and say He does not have the right to kill off reprobates. These repbrobates will never enter the Kingdom of God and whilst they could be allowed to die off naturally, God said in advance what He would do. People hav been given warnings and the opportunity to change their ways; if not they suffer the consequences. By God declaring what He will do in advance is proof of the existence of God when these things come to pass. I can see events taking place now that prove what God has predicted is coming to pass. God's judgement on could take place within the next few years; it is definitely coming. The day will come and it will come suddenly and catch many unawares. We cannot say we have not been warned. We ignore God's warning at our peril.

    All the best,

    David
    Whether or not God has a right to kill people, has nothing to do with whether or not it's immoral! All throughout Scripture the biblegod metes out punishment in a unjust, immoral, and arbitrary fashion. Sometimes the capricious god of the Bible allows some of the so-called idolatrous people to live (if the men need virgin wives), other times he says utterly kill them all, or randomly pick and choose who you want to kill. I guess it depends on what kind of a mood he is in...

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  10. #10
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    The Judge!


    "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away,
    none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come". Isa57:1


    Many things we humans don't know, including what happens to those who are 'taken away',
    but could be a big plus if we had the righteousness of Jesus,
    'cause He's got the Judge in his pocket! 2Cor5:21
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

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