Where are the tribes of Ishmael today?

[CWH]

The study of the tribes of Israel should not go without the study of the tribes of Ishmael for both are the descendants of Abraham. The Arabs believed they are the descendants of the tribes of Ishmael and there seems to be some truth in it. It is interesting that when we study the Bible, it seems to give us dual comparisons perhaps trying to tell us some things. We have the sons of Cain and Seth which obviously is a comparison between the sons of the Evil and the sons of Good. Others include the comparison between Isaac and Ishmael, the difference between Jacob and Esau, the difference between Sarah and Hagar, the difference between Adam and Jesus i.e the Sin and Sinless etc. They were all about conflicts of interest. But what of the tribes of Israel and the tribes of Ishmael? Obviously it is not between the good and the bad but seems to be the conflicts between two major religions of the world, Christianity and Islam, Christians and Muslims. Both religion share some similarities.

For reference to the similarities between the sons of Cain and the sons of Seth please refer to my thread:
http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...d-sons-of-Seth

For reference to the 12 tribes of Israel, please refer to:
http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...-of-Israel-now

For reference to the tribes of Ishmael:
http://nabataea.net/12tribes.html

For reference of the Arabs as the descendants of the tribes of Ishmael:
http://ahmedamiruddin.wordpress.com/...es-of-ishmael/

References of the tribes of Israel with the tribes of Ishmael:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...59mjVk&ct=clnk

The chart of the family of Abraham:
http://catholic-resources.org/Bible/Abraham.pdf

The tribes of Israel:
1 Reuben
2 Simeon
3 Levi,
4 Judah
5 Zebulun
6 Issachar
7 Dan
8 Gad,
9 Asher,
10 Naphtali
11 Joseph
12 Benjamin

The twelves sons of Ishmael:
1 Nebaioth
2 Kedar
3 Adbeel
4 Mibsam
5 Mishma
6 Dumah
7 Massa
8 Hadad
9 Tema
10 Jetur
11 Naphish
12 Kedemah


May God reveal us the Truth.

[CWH]

Perhaps, there is some meanings of what the tribes of Israel and the tribes of Ishmael mean:

The tribes of Israel:
1 Reuben - to see, behold, perceive, discern, or know a son
2 Simeon - to hear, discern, declare, write, inscribe, enumerate, celebrate, proclaim, show forth, divide, also implies obedience, content, understanding, and witness
3 Levi - Priesthood, joined, lender, coiler
4 Judah - Praise of Jehovah and denotes the expression of praise.
5 Zebulun - dwelling, habitation, abiding, continuing, to reside or dwell with
6 Issachar - reward or to hire for payment
7 Dan - to judge, to minister judgment or to plead a cause
8 Gad - to crowd upon, attack, invade, overcome
9 Asher - blessed, happy, prosper, straight, honest, go, guide, lead, and relieve
10 Naphtali - to obtain by wrestling
11 Joseph - to add, increase, repeat (sons: Mannaseh - from a debt, forgetfulness, Ephraim - fruitfulness but equally so to the word for ashes, the symbol of worthlessness and grief)
12 Benjamin - the son of my right hand

The twelves sons of Ishmael:
1 Nebaioth - to look high, prophesy, to speak
2 Kedar - dark, darkness, black
3 Adbeel - grieved by God
4 Mibsam - smelling sweet
5 Mishma - hearing, obeying
6 Dumah - silence
7 Massa - burden, prophesy
8 Hadad - joy, noise, clamour
9 Tema - admiration; perfection; consummation
10 Jetur - order, succession, mountainous
11 Naphish - the soul, he that rest
12 Kedemah - oriental, ancient, first

Notice that some of the names of the tribes of Israel and Ishmael seem similar in meaning or in relation e.g.
1 Reuben - to see, behold, perceive, discern, or know a son
1 Nebaioth - to look high, prophesy, to speak

2 Simeon - to hear, discern, declare, write, inscribe, enumerate, celebrate, proclaim, show forth, divide, also implies obedience, content, understanding, and witness
5 Mishma - hearing, obeying

9 Asher - blessed, happy, prosper, straight, honest, go, guide, lead, and relieve
8 Hadad - joy, noise, clamour

GOD BLESSINGS TO ALL.

[CWH]

Interesting article about the whereabout of Ishmael's descendants and Esau's descendants today:

http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVa...2005/03-17.htm

Question:
What happened to Ishmael's descendants?
Answer:
od promised Abraham, "And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation" (Genesis 17:20).

Ishmael's initial descendants are recorded for us in the Bible: "Now this is the genealogy of Ishmael, Abraham's son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah's maidservant, bore to Abraham. And these were the names of the sons of Ishmael, by their names, according to their generations: The firstborn of Ishmael, Nebajoth; then Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadar, Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah. These were the sons of Ishmael and these were their names, by their towns and their settlements, twelve princes according to their nations" (Genesis 25:12-16).

One of Ishmael's daughters, Mahalath, married Isaac's son, Esau (Genesis 28:9). She was Esau's third wife. Esau and his descendants eventually founded the nation of Edom, which is named after Esau's nickname.

Most of Ishmael's descendants founded the Arab nations. According to Bill Cooper, in his book After the Flood, 1995 (p. 183-185):

Nebaioth: He settled with his descendants to the south of the Dead Sea, where they were known to the Chaldeans as the Nabat, and to the Assyrians as the Nabaiate. Their own inscriptions render the naem as 'nbtw.' The Greek historian, Diodorus, mentions them, and Ptolemy knew them as the Nabatei. The Nabataeans' final demise was brought about by Augustus Caesar, who cut off the trade routes of Arabia. By the time of Tiberius Caesar, all the land east of Judea was known as Nabataea.

Kedar: Known to the Hebrews as the Qedar, and the Assyrians as the Qidri, his descendants became the great tribe of Arabs who settled in the northwest Arabian peninsula, and whose black tents were to become proverbial in the ancient world. We are informed in Babylonian sources that the armies of Nebuchadnezzar confronted the tribe of Kedar in a major skirmish of the year 599 BC, an incident that was foretold by Jeremiah (49:28 and 29). The tribe of Kedar is also mentioned in the annals of Ashurbanipal, with whom they clashed, and in various other Assyrian documents. In these, the men of Kedar are mentioned in close association with the men of Nebaioth. The founder of Islam, Mohammed, was to trace his own direct descent from Kedar.

Adbeel: He was the founder of a tribe who were known to the Akkadians as the Idibilu. This same people were subsequently mentioned in the annals of Tiglath-pileser III, who tells us how he conquered the Idiba'leans and employed them to guard the approaches to Egypt's borders. Their area of settlement was in northwest Arabia, close to the lands of Kedar and Nebaioth.

Mibsam: An otherwise unknown Bedhouin chieftain.

Mishma: He settled with his descendants in what is known today as Jebel Mishma in the vicinity of Tema.

Dumah: The Assyrians and Babylonians knew Dumah's descendants as the Adammatu. Nabonidus later tells us how he conquered the Adummu. Ptolemy referred to them as the Domatha; and Porphyry recorded their name as the Dumathi. We know them today as the Idumaeans. The name of Dumah is still preserved in the modern Arab city of Dumat-al-Jandal, the erstwhile capital of his tribe.

Massa: The descendants of Massa were known to the Assyrians as the Mas'a, who with the tribe of Tema were forced to pay tribute to Tiglath-pileser III. He tells us how he conquered them along with the peoples of Haiappa, the Idiba'leans and others. Ptolemy knew the tribe as the Masanoi, who lived to the northeast of Dumah. Josepheus records their name as Mesanaeans, and that in his day their lands were known to the Romans as Charax Spasini.

Hadad: The name is rendered as Haddu in Akkadian inscriptions as the name of a pagan god. Hadad himself, however, seems to be unknown in extra-biblical sources.

Tema: Still known by today's Arabs as Taima', the city of Tema's descendants lies some 70 miles northeast of Dedan. Nabonidus, king of Babylon, (556-539 BC), passed his years of exile in this city, which he also knew as Tema. The city of Tema, with those of Dedan and Dumah, formed stages in the caravan route from Babylon to Sheba.

Jetur: he was the progenitor of the Ituraeans, who were known to the Greeks as the Itouraia. The Ituraeans are mentioned in the works of Dio Cassius, Josephus, Pliny, Strabo and others; and were known to the Roman authorities as a tribe of robbers. The descendants of Jetur perpetrated a massacre of Lebanese Christians in AD 1860.

Naphish: He and his lineage are variously known in the biblical records as Nephish, the children of the Nephusim, and the Nephishesim. They are seemingly unknown from extra-biblical sources.

Kedemah: He and his descendants settled in what was later known as the Wilderness of Kedemoth. The tribe dwelt in the city that is known today as es-Za'feran.

I recommend the following book if you are interested in where various nations and people mentioned in the Bible settled, especially those found in the Table of Nations:

After the Flood, Bill Cooper, B.A. Hons., New Wine Press, 1995, ISBN: 187436740X.


May God Blessed Abraham's descendants.

[CWH]

Proof that Arabs and Jews are descendants of Abraham:

http://www.trinicenter.com/more/Jewsarabs.htm

Jews, Arabs are brothers,
genetic study shows

WASHINGTON, May 8 (Reuters) - They may be enemies but Jews and Arabs really are brothers, a genetic analysis published on Monday shows.

The comparison of groups of Semites also shows that Jews have successfully resisted having their gene pool diluted, despite having lived among non-Jews for thousands of years in what is commonly known as the Diaspora -- the time since 556 B.C. when Jews migrated out of Palestine.

Michael Hammer at the University of Arizona in Tucson and colleagues studied and compared the genes of more than 1,300 males from 29 different populations.

These included seven different Jewish groups -- the Ashkenazi (European), Roman, North African, Kurdish, Iraqi and Iranian, Yemenite and Ethiopian Jews. They compared their genes to samples from Arabs such as Palestinians, Lebanese, Syrians, Israeli Druze and Saudis, and then compared the Semitic group to groups such as Russians, Germans, British, Austrians, Egyptians, Gambians, Ethiopians, Turks and others.

The researchers looked at the Y chromosome, which only males have and which is passed down with little change from father to son. These small changes can be tracked and provide a kind of molecular roadmap to the genetic past.

They found that grouping Jews and Arabs together -- both are Semites -- is based on genetic and well as historical and linguistic reality.

"Jews and Arabs are all really children of Abraham," Dr. Harry Ostrer, director of the Human Genetics Program at New York University School of Medicine, who worked on the study, said in a statement.

"And all have preserved their Middle Eastern genetic roots over 4,000 years."

They also found that Jews had remained remarkably similar on the genetic level over the millennia.

"Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level," Hammer's group wrote in their report, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Very few non-Jewish European genes have gotten into the Ashkenazi and Roman Jewish populations, they said.

"The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggests that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora," they wrote.


May God Bless the descendants of Abraham.

[duxrow]

Because of different mothers; and I think we're missing something if we don't see more to the name "Joseph".

Ge:30:23: And she conceived, and bare a son; and said, God hath taken away my reproach:
Ge:30:24: And she called his name Joseph; and said, The LORD shall add to me another son.

Image if Mary's husband thought about this, confirming it was God who would inseminate Mary!