Isaiah 7:14 maiden/virgin

[gilgal]

I know that Isaiah 7:14's original Hebrew is almah meaning maiden as opposed to bethulah/virgin/parthenos which are interpreted by Matthew and Luke 1. Could it be that either the Gospels and/or the septuagint interpreted that verse in the context of Genesis 3:15's seed of the woman? Logically the Messiah should come from a woman who knew no man so that there is no curse of Adam upon him.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I know that Isaiah 7:14's original Hebrew is almah meaning maiden as opposed to bethulah/virgin/parthenos which are interpreted by Matthew and Luke 1. Could it be that either the Gospels and/or the septuagint interpreted that verse in the context of Genesis 3:15's seed of the woman? Logically the Messiah should come from a woman who knew no man so that there is no curse of Adam upon him.

Yes, they could have made some connection with Gen 3:15. But the real issue is that there is nothing in Isaiah 7:14 (with or without parthenos) that indicates it is a prophecy of the Messiah. If the NT didn't say it, no one would think they could justify that association. In other words, the hermeneutics of the NT writers was very bad. We are not free to apply just any verse from the OT to Jesus.

[gilgal]

Yes, they could have made some connection with Gen 3:15. But the real issue is that there is nothing in Isaiah 7:14 (with or without parthenos) that indicates it is a prophecy of the Messiah. If the NT didn't say it, no one would think they could justify that association. In other words, the hermeneutics of the NT writers was very bad. We are not free to apply just any verse from the OT to Jesus.

Maybe it was simply an application of Isaiah 7 but even the Septuagint says virgin/parthenos:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Maybe it was simply an application of Isaiah 7 but even the Septuagint says virgin/parthenos:

Yes, that's what probably happened. The Jews, for whatever reason, translated almah as parthenos, and then Matthew lifted it out of context to fit the doctrine that Christ was born of a virgin to prove he was the "son of God" which was a common title of the Roman Caesars at that time.

[duxrow]

There's a method to HIS madness, IMO

"Christ Formed Within You" is the pregnancy pattern, Gal 4:19
and virgins who are wise will have oil in their lanterns. Matt25
"Christ Formed Within You", but your belly won't grow..
Instead, it's your future and your Life; don't you know?

"Christ Formed Within You", He's the real 'Mr. Right', Isa54:5
His yoke is easy and his burden is light,
The baby will want the milk of the Word -- 1Cor3:2, Heb5:12, 1Pet2:2
You'll know him as Truth when your heart strings are stirred..

"Christ Formed Within You", when you"know" him as Lord. Gen4:1, 19:5
The opinions of others (homo sapien) will leave you unscored.
Josephus or Whosis may be respected or loved,
but nothing's more surety than the Word from above.

We can argue over words and spelling..but when the account is seen as a PRECEPT,
those other things don't seem to matter; at least not to me. Amen.

[gilgal]

Yes, that's what probably happened. The Jews, for whatever reason, translated almah as parthenos, and then Matthew lifted it out of context to fit the doctrine that Christ was born of a virgin to prove he was the "son of God" which was a common title of the Roman Caesars at that time. :doh:

Yes I think God has his own humor and strategy that he challenges men on their claims. Just like what he said to Pharaoh:

Exodus 9:16 KJV - And in very deed for this [cause] have I raised thee up, for to shew [in] thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.

The 10 plagues:
http://inthedoghouse.hubpages.com/hu...s-For-Ten-Gods

Each plague challenged each Egyptian god.

So it shouldn't be a surprise that the Son of God would be revealed while there are those in power who declare themselves as the sons of god.

But his walk was different than theirs.

[David M]

I know that Isaiah 7:14's original Hebrew is almah meaning maiden as opposed to bethulah/virgin/parthenos which are interpreted by Matthew and Luke 1. Could it be that either the Gospels and/or the septuagint interpreted that verse in the context of Genesis 3:15's seed of the woman? Logically the Messiah should come from a woman who knew no man so that there is no curse of Adam upon him.

Logically, Jesus was born of the woman to have the nature of man. It was human nature that is disposed to going against God's will that Jesus had to overcome. Unless, Jesus bore the exact nature that is made of flesh and blood and has freewill to chose between good and evil (as every other person has), Jesus could not have been tempted in all points like we are. Jesus had to have the same nature so he could overcome that part of his nature that would have made him sin. He overcame all temptation and succeeded were everyone else who has ever lived has failed. Doing God's will automatically includes living a life whereby man lives in harmony with his fellow man and puts his neighbor before himself, thus avoiding wars and strivings and envying and all those things that God hates men and women will do if left to direct their own steps.

Having known what it was like to be tempted, makes Jesus the perfect High Priest and Mediator whereby he is able to present us faultless before his Heavenly Father.

Jesus only distinguished others as coming from their father Adam in whom his nature showed he was a liar. Our nature causes us to deceive ourselves and go against God's will. Jesus, knew from an early age that he must be about his Father's business and that is what separated him from others who went about their own business and doing the business of others who like Adam, was a liar from the beginning, because of what Adam did. Jesus did the will of his Heavenly Father who is not a liar.

When we are born, we all have the same nature. We are not cursed differently; the nature we have and Jesus had is no different. Only by what Jesus accomplished did he prove that he had the perfect nature and had overcome that side of his nature that would have lead him to sin. One day, we are promised, we can have the same body as Jesus and be like him. At the resurrection, the power of God will raise people to have an incorruptible body to live for ever.


David