God Allows Rape

[CWH]

Hi CWH,

I'm posting this again because you did not answer.


You really need to learn the basic principles of Bible study. The Bible was not written in English. The Hebrew word translated as "humbled" is עִנָּה (Strong's 6031). Duane L. Christensen explained it's meaning in his entry on Deuteronomy 21:14 in the Word Biblical Commentary:

The piel verbal form עִנָּה, which is translated here as 'you have humbled her,' carries the sense of 'doing violence to' in sexual matters (cf. 22:24, 29).

The verses he cited make the truth of his claim perfectly obvious (note that they come from the same general context in Deuteronomy):

Deuteronomy 22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her [have sex with her]; 24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her [have sex with her], and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

My interpretation stands. The word "humbled" means "screwed" or "had sexual intercourse with" in these contexts. It is totally obvious to anyone who can read even the English translation and it is supported by the scholars.

I did not answer? I did in this thread, I think you are having myopia, let me write in bigger font in my previous reply:

04-27-2012, 08:04 PM #29 CWH
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You have yet to answer the questions why are the words husband and wife mentioned if it is not marriage. There is a possibility that the virgins were willingly married to the men if not why didn't they protest and got killed, why didn't they ran away, why didn't they commit suicide, why didn't they refused the marriage, why didn't they disfigured or maimed or self injured themselves to prevent the marriage, why didn't fight they retaliate or discard/kill the babies of their "rapists", why didn't they destroy their virginity before marriage?....or was there a gain by marrying the Israelites seeing they were not so evil compared to their Canaanite men. Were they convinced that the Canaanite men were evil and sinful and God had to kill them with the promise that they will be pardoned and resurrected in the future if they repent? Was there a promise of pardon and heavenly reward for them and their descendants if they married and bore children of the Israelites? The other issue of letting them go was so that they could remarry or carry on with their renewed life was perhaps so that they will not become widowed as these Israelite men need to go to wars against God's enemies soon and were not expected to return and live long to see their children and family.

Humbled means humiliated, fine. They were humbled after they slept with their Israelite husbands because they were once arrogant non-God fearing people and now they have assimilated into the Jewish family as part of God's people and they and their children will now be eligible to receive part of God's inheritance and promise.

May God Bless us all.

May God humble us for we are proud in our own eyes.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hi CWH,

I'm posting this again because you did not answer.


You really need to learn the basic principles of Bible study. The Bible was not written in English. The Hebrew word translated as "humbled" is עִנָּה (Strong's 6031). Duane L. Christensen explained it's meaning in his entry on Deuteronomy 21:14 in the Word Biblical Commentary:

The piel verbal form עִנָּה, which is translated here as 'you have humbled her,' carries the sense of 'doing violence to' in sexual matters (cf. 22:24, 29).

The verses he cited make the truth of his claim perfectly obvious (note that they come from the same general context in Deuteronomy):

Deuteronomy 22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her [have sex with her]; 24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her [have sex with her], and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

My interpretation stands. The word "humbled" means "screwed" or "had sexual intercourse with" in these contexts. It is totally obvious to anyone who can read even the English translation and it is supported by the scholars.

I did not answer? I did in this thread, I think you are having myopia, let me write in bigger font in my previous reply:

04-27-2012, 08:04 PM #29 CWH
Senior Member
Join Date
Nov 2008
Location
Not from this world...from the other side
Posts
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You have yet to answer the questions why are the words husband and wife mentioned if it is not marriage. There is a possibility that the virgins were willingly married to the men if not why didn't they protest and got killed, why didn't they ran away, why didn't they commit suicide, why didn't they refused the marriage, why didn't they disfigured or maimed or self injured themselves to prevent the marriage, why didn't fight they retaliate or discard/kill the babies of their "rapists", why didn't they destroy their virginity before marriage?....or was there a gain by marrying the Israelites seeing they were not so evil compared to their Canaanite men. Were they convinced that the Canaanite men were evil and sinful and God had to kill them with the promise that they will be pardoned and resurrected in the future if they repent? Was there a promise of pardon and heavenly reward for them and their descendants if they married and bore children of the Israelites? The other issue of letting them go was so that they could remarry or carry on with their renewed life was perhaps so that they will not become widowed as these Israelite men need to go to wars against God's enemies soon and were not expected to return and live long to see their children and family.

Humbled means humiliated, fine. They were humbled after they slept with their Israelite husbands because they were once arrogant non-God fearing people and now they have assimilated into the Jewish family as part of God's people and they and their children will now be eligible to receive part of God's inheritance and promise.

May God Bless us all.

May God humble us for we are proud in our own eyes.

That post of yours that you quoted was not not an answer to my post. It was written much earlier, and I answered your question about the words husband and wife in post #39.

It looks like you are avoiding the truth because you are embarrassed about being wrong. You said:

Check any English dictionary, "humbled" has never mean "screwed". So one have humbled his wife and the wife have humbled her husband after sex sex....Brilliant! "Hey, Darling, can you humble me tonight?".

So I explained your error, but you have not yet admitted it. Why not? If I am shown to be wrong about something, I am happy to admit it.

And your mimicry of my use of the word "Brilliant" makes you look like anything but that.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hi CWH,

I'm posting this again because you did not answer.

The word "humbled" in this context means "screwed" as in "having had sexual intercourse with." It's easy to prove. I'll leave that as an exercise for the student since I have little time this morning.

Check any English dictionary, "humbled" has never mean "screwed". So one have humbled his wife and the wife have humbled her husband after sex sex....Brilliant! "Hey, Darling, can you humble me tonight?".

You really need to learn the basic principles of Bible study. The Bible was not written in English. The Hebrew word translated as "humbled" is עִנָּה (Strong's 6031). Duane L. Christensen explained it's meaning in his entry on Deuteronomy 21:14 in the Word Biblical Commentary:

The piel verbal form עִנָּה, which is translated here as 'you have humbled her,' carries the sense of 'doing violence to' in sexual matters (cf. 22:24, 29).

The verses he cited make the truth of his claim perfectly obvious (note that they come from the same general context in Deuteronomy):

Deuteronomy 22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her [have sex with her]; 24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her [have sex with her], and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

My interpretation stands. The word "humbled" means "screwed" or "had sexual intercourse with" in these contexts. It is totally obvious to anyone who can read even the English translation and it is supported by the scholars.

CWH,

I'm still waiting for you to reply to this post. It came to mind again this morning because I happened to be reading Judges and found another example of "humbled" being used to refer to violent sexual intercourse (rape):

Judges 19:24 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. 25 But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

Will you now admit the error in your assertion that "humbled" never means "screwed" in the Bible?

All the best,

Richard

[CWH]

CWH,

I'm still waiting for you to reply to this post. It came to mind again this morning because I happened to be reading Judges and found another example of "humbled" being used to refer to violent sexual intercourse (rape):

Judges 19:24 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. 25 But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

Will you now admit the error in your assertion that "humbled" never means "screwed" in the Bible?

All the best,

Richard

I have already said that humbled means sex but something more than sex. Looks like I may have to write it in big font again. If I humbled someone in normal talk, I mean I have made an arrogant person to realize his arrogance or snobbery or error so that he repent or amend his ways. Amendment can come in many ways such as obeying God or asking God for forgiveness, repentance, doing righteous things etc. The simple fact is that if it is rape why is it that the Hebrew word for rape is not used but Hebrew word for humble instead? Therefore Judge 19:24 as stated above seems to described that the two women i.e. his daughter and concubine were not of good characters and were brought out to be punished hoping that they would be humbled and repent of their ways. It also shows the evil characters of those homosexuals or rather I would say bisexual men who abused the concubine instead out of anger that their demand for homosexual sex was not granted. But think why abused (violent sex) her the whole night? If someone kindly offer you a woman to sleep with, why abuse her?...unless you are angry or a pervert.


God Blessed.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I have already said that humbled means sex but something more than sex. Looks like I may have to write it in big font again. If I humbled someone in normal talk, I mean I have made an arrogant person to realize his arrogance or snobbery or error so that he repent or amend his ways. Amendment can come in many ways such as obeying God or asking God for forgiveness, repentance, doing righteous things etc. The simple fact is that if it is rape why is it that the Hebrew word for rape is not used but Hebrew word for humble instead? Therefore Judge 19:24 as stated above seems to described that the two women i.e. his daughter and concubine were not of good characters and were brought out to be punished hoping that they would be humbled and repent of their ways. It also shows the evil characters of those homosexuals or rather I would say bisexual men who abused the concubine instead out of anger that their demand for homosexual sex was not granted. But think why abused (violent sex) her the whole night? If someone kindly offer you a woman to sleep with, why abuse her?...unless you are angry or a pervert.


God Blessed.

You don't need to write in big font. The meaning of "humbled" in "normal talk" has nothing to do with our discussion because we were talking about the meaning of that word in those specific Bible verses. That is what you denied. I'm glad you are admitting you were wrong.

There is no word in biblical Hebrew for "rape" specifically. They used other words and relied on the context to indicate the correct understanding. It's like the word "know" which can mean "know" in the normal sense in some contexts, or "have sex with" in other contexts, like Gen 4:1 "Adam knew Eve, his wife." This is pretty basic stuff, man.

Your suggestion that the rape of the concubine was to punish her in hope that she would be "humbled and repent" is not only absurd, but disgusting. Your sense of morality seems totally warped to me.

[CWH]

You don't need to write in big font. The meaning of "humbled" in "normal talk" has nothing to do with our discussion because we were talking about the meaning of that word in those specific Bible verses. That is what you denied. I'm glad you are admitting you were wrong.

There is no word in biblical Hebrew for "rape" specifically. They used other words and relied on the context to indicate the correct understanding. It's like the word "know" which can mean "know" in the normal sense in some contexts, or "have sex with" in other contexts, like Gen 4:1 "Adam knew Eve, his wife." This is pretty basic stuff, man.

Your suggestion that the rape of the concubine was to punish her in hope that she would be "humbled and repent" is not only absurd, but disgusting. Your sense of morality seems totally warped to me.

I don't think I am wrong. This is what I said in the previous post,

Humbled means humiliated, fine. They were humbled after they slept with their Israelite husbands because they were once arrogant non-God fearing people and now they have assimilated into the Jewish family as part of God's people and they and their children will now be eligible to receive part of God's inheritance and promise.

Even if there is no rape word in Hebrew why can't sex in Hebrew be used be used instead of the Hebrew word for humbled? I'll let the readers decide. "Hey Darling, let's humble tonight; let's knew each other tonight".

God Blessings to all.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I don't think I am wrong.

This is what I said in the previous post,

Humbled means humiliated, fine. They were humbled after they slept with their Israelite husbands because they were once arrogant non-God fearing people and now they have assimilated into the Jewish family as part of God's people and they and their children will now be eligible to receive part of God's inheritance and promise.

Even if there is no rape word in Hebrew why can't sex in Hebrew be used be used instead of the Hebrew word for humbled? I'll let the readers decide. "Hey Darling, let's humble tonight; let's knew each other tonight".

God Blessings to all.