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Thread: God Allows Rape

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    You have yet to answer the questions why are the words husband and wife mentioned if it is not marriage. There is a possibility that the virgins were willingly married to the men if not why didn't they protest and got killed, why didn't they ran away, why didn't they commit suicide, why didn't they refused the marriage, why didn't they disfigured or maimed or self injured themselves to prevent the marriage, why didn't fight they retaliate or discard/kill the babies of their "rapists", why didn't they destroy their virginity before marriage?....or was there a gain by marrying the Israelites seeing they were not so evil compared to their Canaanite men. Were they convinced that the Canaanite men were evil and sinful and God had to kill them with the promise that they will be pardoned and resurrected in the future if they repent? Was there a promise of pardon and heavenly reward for them and their descendants if they married and bore children of the Israelites? The other issue of letting them go was so that they could remarry or carry on with their renewed life was perhaps so that they will not become widowed as these Israelite men need to go to wars against God's enemies soon and were not expected to return and live long to see their children and family.

    Humbled means humiliated, fine. They were humbled after they slept with their Israelite husbands because they were once arrogant non-God fearing people and now they have assimilated into the Jewish family as part of God's people and they and their children will now be eligible to receive part of God's inheritance and promise.

    May God Bless us all.
    Please remember this all happened immediately after a month of the ''traumatized young virgin women foreigners'' being stolen or later to be noticed, taken as Trophy Wives

    The humiliation/rape came by way of the Israeli man forcefully laying with her,and so that rape deed made her according to law his wife..... There wasn't a marriage ceremony where she was lead by her Father down the isle in all her splendor.... Her head was shaven and her feminine nails had been pared to mourn her mother and father who had been killed and then thrown into heaps and then BURNED.

    And how did the Soldiers know who were the virgins? Did they ask the surviors,and ask the virgins to go to the right,while the others Women ,Men and Children were sent to the left and hacked to death and burnt... Sounds similar to Hitlers Death Camps.
    Last edited by highflyertoo; 04-28-2012 at 12:09 AM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by highflyertoo View Post
    Please remember this all happened immediately after a month of the ''traumatized young virgin women foreigners'' being stolen or later to be noticed, taken as Trophy Wives

    The humiliation/rape came by way of the Israeli man forcefully laying with her,and so that rape deed made her according to law his wife..... There wasn't a marriage ceremony where she was lead by her Father down the isle in all her splendor.... Her head was shaven and her feminine nails had been pared to mourn her mother and father who had been killed and then thrown into heaps and then BURNED.

    And how did the Soldiers know who were the virgins? Did they ask the surviors,and ask the virgins to go to the right,while the others Women ,Men and Children were sent to the left and hacked to death and burnt... Sounds similar to Hitlers Death Camps.
    I don't know what you are trying to prove, you are adding words that are not in the passage. See the one highlighted in red that you have added into the paasage to make God looks bad :

    Deuteronomy 21:10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, 11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy Trophy wife; 12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; 13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother who had been killed and then thrown into heaps and then BURNED.a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her forcefully and rape her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy Trophy wife. 14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her by humiliating her through rape.

    Did they ask the surviors,and ask the virgins to go to the right,while the others Women ,Men and Children were sent to the left and hacked to death and burnt.
    Where is this sentence in the passage?


    May God forgive those who know not what they are doing.
    Last edited by CWH; 04-28-2012 at 03:44 AM.
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  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    I don't know what you are trying to prove, you are adding words that are not in the passage. See the one highlighted in red that you have added into the paasage to make God looks bad :

    Deuteronomy 21:10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, 11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy Trophy wife; 12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; 13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother who had been killed and then thrown into heaps and then BURNED.a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her forcefully and rape her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy Trophy wife. 14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her by humiliating her through rape.


    Where is this sentence in the passage?


    May God forgive those who know not what they are doing.
    Hey,I am discussing the likely events that happened when the Israelis went to war against their enemies.

    Now you haven't told me how they the Soldiers would know the young women were virgins... Please tell me.

    Could you tell me if the same proceedure was used to marry Israeli women.
    Last edited by highflyertoo; 04-28-2012 at 04:31 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by highflyertoo View Post
    Hey,I am discussing the likely events that happened when the Israelis went to war against their enemies.

    Now you haven't told me how they the Soldiers would know the young women were virgins... Please tell me.

    Could you tell me if the same proceedure was used to marry Israeli women.
    I don't know what were the rights of Trophy wife or how was the Jewish procedure of marrying a Trophy wife, please enlighten us.

    You don't expect them to chexk for every hymen do you? I have asked this question of testing virginity before and RAM answered well:

    Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock
    I have some curious thoughts:

    1. How do they know the girls were virgins? Were they to check every hymen?

    2. What if some of them have never slept with men but lost their virginity through accidents?

    3. If their purpose was procreation, was the killing of all women who have slept with men necessary? Once their husbands were killed, that would make them free to re-marry again isn't it?

    Many Blessings.
    RAM:I think Glenn Miller's explanation on this point was correct. The "test" for virginity was probably just a visual judgment based on age, clothing/jewelry that was worn only by married women, and whether or not the woman had children with her. It seems exceedingly unlikely that there could be any other test. But your questions bring up another exceedingly significant subject that belongs in this thread. It is the "law" that says a woman must be stoned to death if her new husband "hates" her and accusers her of not being a virgin when they were married and she is unable to PROVE she was a virgin. And what was the "proof"? Here is the LAW:

    Deuteronomy 22:13 If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and detests her, 14 "and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, 'I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she was not a virgin,' 15 "then the father and mother of the young woman shall take and bring out the evidence of the young woman's virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. 16 "And the young woman's father shall say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter to this man as wife, and he detests her. 17 'Now he has charged her with shameful conduct, saying, "I found your daughter was not a virgin," and yet these are the evidences of my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. 18 "Then the elders of that city shall take that man and punish him; 19 "and they shall fine him one hundred shekels of silver and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought a bad name on a virgin of Israel. And she shall be his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. 20 "But if the thing is true, and evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, 21 "then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has done a disgraceful thing in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house. So you shall put away the evil from among you.
    It appears that the "cloth" that is spread before the elders is the sheet from the marriage bed that is supposed to have a little blood from the broken hymen. Therefore, if a girl happens to have had some (probably unknown) accident that broke her hymen and does not bleed on her wedding night, and her husband then believes she is a whore and hates her, then the innocent girl would be MURDERED according to this "law of God." It seems to me this law is both absurd and grossly immoral.

    All the best,

    Richard
    God Bllessed.
    Last edited by CWH; 04-28-2012 at 05:40 AM.
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  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    I don't know what were the rights of Trophy wife or how was the Jewish procedure of marrying a Trophy wife, please enlighten us.

    You don't expect them to chexk for every hymen do you? I have asked this question of testing virginity before and RAM answered well:




    God Bllessed.
    But you said they were ungodly people. So how ungodly were these people? Did the Fathers rape their daughters as part of their ungodly religion? If so then there would be no wedding jewelry upon the young women who would appear as virgins.

    Another thing is why would the Soldiers want foreign women to be their wives?Weren't the holy Jewish women not fair enough for all those thousands of Soldiers waiting to spread their seed?

    As the scriptures say, the women who were taken as ''booty/spoils of war'' who they the soldiers forced themselves upon them first without there being a LOVING WEDDING CEREMONY.

    I ask again, when a Jewish man wanted to marry a Jewish woman,did he get her to shave her head and pare her nails and then had sexual intercourse and then said to the public,behold my wife?

    If you believe it's right for people to kill someones parents and family and then have forced sex with the ''booty prize'' woman and then declare she's your wife, then you are in need of desperate help right this minute.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by highflyertoo View Post
    But you said they were ungodly people. So how ungodly were these people? Did the Fathers rape their daughters as part of their ungodly religion? If so then there would be no wedding jewelry upon the young women who would appear as virgins.

    Another thing is why would the Soldiers want foreign women to be their wives?Weren't the holy Jewish women not fair enough for all those thousands of Soldiers waiting to spread their seed?

    As the scriptures say, the women who were taken as ''booty/spoils of war'' who they the soldiers forced themselves upon them first without there being a LOVING WEDDING CEREMONY.

    I ask again, when a Jewish man wanted to marry a Jewish woman,did he get her to shave her head and pare her nails and then had sexual intercourse and then said to the public,behold my wife?

    If you believe it's right for people to kill someones parents and family and then have forced sex with the ''booty prize'' woman and then declare she's your wife, then you are in need of desperate help right this minute.
    Good morning Highflyer

    So glad to see another person who is letting their compassion and empathy allowing them to see and speak the truth. You are so right, anyone who tries to justify killing and rape in the name of God is desperately in need of help!

    What we see over and over again throughout the pages of Scripture is horrific, and yet there are those who stand up and say "no wrong was done" because God can do no wrong...how pathetic is that?

    Men acted worse than animals, saying that their actions were commanded by the God they created in their own image and likeness. Once a persons eyes are opened to the abominations contained in the Bible there is no going back to believing it can be the word of God.

    All the best,
    Rose
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  7. #37
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by highflyertoo View Post
    But you said they were ungodly people. So how ungodly were these people? Did the Fathers rape their daughters as part of their ungodly religion? If so then there would be no wedding jewelry upon the young women who would appear as virgins.
    There are many articles justifying the killings of the Canaanites in Google, why don' t you read them?

    http://www.google.com.sg/search?hl=e....0.NFy_Gn5_Trw

    Just to quote one of them:

    "The 'new atheists' call God’s commands to kill the Canaanites 'genocide,' but a closer look at the horror of the Canaanites’ sinfulness, exhibited in rampant idolatry, incest, adultery, child sacrifice, homosexuality, and bestiality, reveals that God’s reason for commanding their death was not genocide but capital punishment."

    Another thing is why would the Soldiers want foreign women to be their wives? Weren't the holy Jewish women not fair enough for all those thousands of Soldiers waiting to spread their seed?
    Obviously, they were far from their land fighting against God's enemies and they would not expect to survive another day. Better to spread their seed fast before they expired. Besides the foreign women who have not slept with men were considered "pure" as they were not polluted by the evil Canaanite men.

    As the scriptures say, the women who were taken as ''booty/spoils of war'' who they the soldiers forced themselves upon them first without there being a LOVING WEDDING CEREMONY.
    Show me a passage in the OT that says, "they the soldiers forced themselves upon them first". You will not find a single passage on this.

    I ask again, when a Jewish man wanted to marry a Jewish woman,did he get her to shave her head and pare her nails and then had sexual intercourse and then said to the public,behold my wife?
    The shaving of head and paring of nails have nothing to do with sex but to renounce her former foreigner's life. Show me a passage that says that custom of shaving of head and paring of nails is related to sex. Please do your homework. See commentary:

    http://bible.cc/deuteronomy/21-12.htm

    Barnes' Notes on the Bible
    The shaving the head (a customary sign of purification, Leviticus 14:8; Numbers 8:7), and the putting away "the garment of her captivity," were designed to signify the translation of the woman from the state of a pagan and a slave to that of a wife among the covenant-people. Consistency required that she should "pare" (dress, compare 2 Samuel 19:24), not "suffer to grow," her nails; and thus, so far as possible, lay aside everything belonging to her condition as an alien.


    If you believe it's right for people to kill someones parents and family and then have forced sex with the ''booty prize'' woman and then declare she's your wife, then you are in need of desperate help right this minute.
    Again as I said there is no forced sex. Show me a verse in OT which says that the soldier have forced sex with the booty prize women. You will find none.

    God Blessings to you and all.
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    Seek and You shall find,
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by highflyertoo View Post
    Hello RAM.There are many things in the scriptures that I have been questioning for a long time as they have severly bothered me how one person is slain by the Lord while the other is not for similar sins.

    I have and are in part a religious nutcase,and have been the second if not worst outright blasphemer of all time against God and his Heavenly Host.(And I am not happy about blaspheming Holy Lord God and his Holy Host).

    I was right into Prophecy and believe I have had some dreams of the future.... I am 44 years old and don't get why God would make people for perdition when the Devil is allowed to walk around free after all the evil he did before going into the garden to deceive Eve who ''didn't know'' about sin to commit the so called sin of eating the forbdden fruit.

    Hope you and I and the current believers can discuss some things inparticular about the End Times Prophecies.
    Good morning highflyertoo,

    It's great that you are questioning things. There is a reason religions generally discourage critical thought ...

    Christians usually say that "one person is slain by the Lord while the other is not for similar sins" because God is showing mercy to certain people. But why does God show mercy to one criminal but not another? In any other context everyone would agree such actions are the definition of injustice. How did Uriah's family feel when they saw that God allowed David to murder him without any penalty from the "law" that everyone else had to obey or suffer punishment? I know how I would have felt.

    It would be interesting to learn more about the view of prophecy you held. You are now a full member so you can start your own thread if you feel so inclined.

    I had a lot of experiences like dreams, synchronicities, and "answered prayers" during the two decades I was a Christian. But most of that kind of thing depends critically upon "interpretation" and assumptions based on beliefs. If a Christian and a Muslim have an identical experience, one will say it was because of Jesus, the other Allah. Such things are really like a Rorschach ink blot that folks project their beliefs onto.

    Great chatting,

    Richard
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    There is no lie, if it is not marriage, then why were the words, husband and wife mentioned?
    Hey there CWH,

    You are reading an English translation. The word "wife" is not actually mentioned in the Hebrew. It literally says "his woman." And he is called her "baal" which means lord or ruler. This exemplifies again the explicit sexism of the Bible. Men are called the "lord" over their women. And this was not just in the OT. Peter said that Christian women should emulate Sarah and call their husbands lord:
    1 Peter 3:5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: 6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
    See that? Christian women are supposed to be in subjection to their husbands, obeying them, and calling them "lord." This sexism is fundamental to Christianity. Indeed, it is as fundamental as the very relationship between God, Christ, and man:
    1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
    Men are over women in the same way as Christ is over men!

    Captured women were put in subjection to those who murdered their moms, dads, family, and friends.
    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Have you ever thought if God were to tell them that He killed them because of evil but will resurrect them a few thousand years later and if they married into God's people they including their loved ones will be pardon and their descendants will become God's people and thus they will be guaranteed a part of God's inheritance. God was kind to give them a full month's of mourning and perhaps to consider. If the 32,000 virgins were not willing to marry the Israelites they could have refused or killed themselves, why didn't they? or was there something for them to gain by obeying God's command to marry the Israelites? Obviously, God had no intention to keep them as old virgins till menopaused.
    If that's how God does things, why did he fail to mention it anywhere in the Bible? And if it's not in the Bible, why do you feel free to make it up and suggest it is what God will do?

    You don't know how many of the 32,000 virgins committed suicide or were killed trying to escape. But one thing is clear - they were women captured in war and put in subjugation to the soldiers that murdered everyone they ever loved. Religion has corrupted your sense of morals if you cannot see how wrong this is.

    There is no end to the irony of Christians justifying genocide even as they claim that we would have no morals if not for the God of the Bible.
    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    This is a false logic, nothing in those passages said "they were tossed like rags" but were told to let them go without making any monetary profits from them, that's was kind in which no evil people would have done that. Based on ancient Jewish law, when the marriage is suddenly terminated, the men had to gave their ex-wives some monetary compensation. I am fascinated by the word "humbled" which seems to suggest additional meanings like "tamed", disciplined", "calmed" besides "screwed her". You don't humbled your wife when you "screwed her" do you?....or was the wife so "wild" during sex that one have to humble her? Humbled seems to suggest disciplining an arrogant people through marrying God's righteous people.
    The word "humbled" in this context means "screwed" as in "having had sexual intercourse with." It's easy to prove. I'll leave that as an exercise for the student since I have little time this morning.

    And when you seem ignorant of the oppressive nature of patriarchy. The captive women were on the bottom of the social scale. First, they were war booty. Then they had thief virginity taken away, so if they were let go they would be seen as "used goods" in a society that prized virginity. You have no idea how difficult it would have been. Where is your empathy?


    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    No, I was trying to make people visualize how terrible human war can be and when there is lawlessness human hearts can be very wicked and evil. It was said in Genesis that men's heart was continuously evil, was God justified then to destroy all humans on earth with a flood? It stated that it grieved God deeply to do so, does that sounds like a totally evil and wicked God? A cold hearted killer and rapist as seen in the videos will not grieved or regret deeply when he murdered or raped.

    Genesis 5:
    5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, 'I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.


    May God continue His Blessings on us.
    Yes, it sounds like a totally evil and wicked God because he constantly chooses VIOLENCE as if it were the best solution. He commands genocide and rape of the captive virgins. This makes him indistinguishable from a brutal Bronze age tribal war god. Why would God choose to act like that? Is he not free to show us a better way?
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    "The 'new atheists' call God’s commands to kill the Canaanites 'genocide,' but a closer look at the horror of the Canaanites’ sinfulness, exhibited in rampant idolatry, incest, adultery, child sacrifice, homosexuality, and bestiality, reveals that God’s reason for commanding their death was not genocide but capital punishment."
    This displays the utter absurdity of the apologetic attempt to justify murder. They speak of the "horror of the Canaanite's sinfulness" when the Canaanites killed a few of their own children but see nothing wrong with God commanding the Israelites to murder ALL of their children!

    If God wanted to punish the Canaanites, why didn't he do it himself? To order his people to slice and dice women and children BRUTALIZES them and turns them in to the kind of monsters we saw in the videos. Why would God want to brutalize his own people that way? It makes no sense at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Obviously, they were far from their land fighting against God's enemies and they would not expect to survive another day. Better to spread their seed fast before they expired. Besides the foreign women who have not slept with men were considered "pure" as they were not polluted by the evil Canaanite men.
    When attempting to justify genocide, it is always smart to dehumanize those you want to murder. Otherwise, people will sense the moral outrage. This is what Hitler did - he dehumanized the Jews. How is the Christian justification of the genocide of the Canaanites any different?
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