Does Fulfilled Prophecy Prove the Bible?

[Richard Amiel McGough]

One of the most common assertions by Bible-believers is that fulfilled prophecies prove the Bible was inspired by God. I would like to know if this claim can be substantiated. Please post a prophecy that has sufficient objective evidence to convince any reasonable person of its fulfillment.

Note also that this claim is a two-edged sword. If fulfilled prophecy proves the Bible, then a single instance of a failed prophecy would disprove the Bible. For example, it is common knowledge that Babylon was never overthrown in a violent battle, but suffered a slow dissolution through economic decay over a period of centuries. This directly contradicts the prophecy given in Isaiah:

Isaiah 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. 14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land. 15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. 16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. 17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. 18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children. 19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. 20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

[Beck]

Your example is a good one....one I never noticed before. It would be my opinion like in the case of Jesus prophesing of the desturction of Jerusalem. That Jesus saw the wickeness of the people that what has often happen in the past history would repeat itself. The city would be invaded and taken captive by another nation. This prophesy would come to past no doubt. It could be the same for America joining into WW2 that could be seen coming and it was only a matter of time.

[BibleScribe]

... it is common knowledge that Babylon was never overthrown in a violent battle, but suffered a slow dissolution through economic decay over a period of centuries. This directly contradicts the prophecy given in Isaiah:

Isaiah 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. 14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land. 15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. 16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. 17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. 18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children. 19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. 20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

Hey RAM, (Richard),

I'm not sure which historical account you cite when you assert a "slow dissolution ... over a period of centuries". It's my understanding that where the Medo/Persian army had diverted the Euphrates, and the gates of Babylon were opened to these conquerors all within a relatively short time span (possibly a year or two). -- To be clear, historians present the Babylonian Empire as in effect from 605 B.C. to 539 B.C., which is only 66 years. So that would mean it would start the dissolution process some ~134 years (presuming two "centuries") prior to it's inception.


You might possibly have confused the Roman Empire dissolution which is as you depict.

With Best Regards,
BibleScribe

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hey RAM, (Richard),

I'm not sure which historical account you cite when you assert a "slow dissolution ... over a period of centuries". It's my understanding that where the Medo/Persian army had diverted the Euphrates, and the gates of Babylon were opened to these conquerors all within a relatively short time span (possibly a year or two). -- To be clear, historians present the Babylonian Empire as in effect from 605 B.C. to 539 B.C., which is only 66 years. So that would mean it would start the dissolution process some ~134 years (presuming two "centuries") prior to it's inception.


You might possibly have confused the Roman Empire dissolution which is as you depict.

With Best Regards,
BibleScribe

It seems the concensus is that there was never a sudden dissolution of Babylon. The story you cite concerning Cyrus and the lowering of the Euphrates was reported by Herodotus and has some support from Scripture (e.g. Isaiah 44:27) but that does not conform to the prophecy of a violent overthrow as presented in Isaiah 13. So as far as I can tell, this is a verifiable failed prophecy.

[Lotus Feet]

One of the most common assertions by Bible-believers is that fulfilled prophecies prove the Bible was inspired by God. I would like to know if this claim can be substantiated. Please post a prophecy that has sufficient objective evidence to convince any reasonable person of its fulfillment.

Note also that this claim is a two-edged sword. If fulfilled prophecy proves the Bible, then a single instance of a failed prophecy would disprove the Bible. For example, it is common knowledge that Babylon was never overthrown in a violent battle, but suffered a slow dissolution through economic decay over a period of centuries. This directly contradicts the prophecy given in Isaiah:

Isaiah 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. 14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land. 15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. 16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. 17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. 18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children. 19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. 20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

What is important about biblical prophecy is both the criteria and the timeline.

Timeline

1. In the day of fierce anger; relates to the judgement of the nations in the last days of the end times.

Location

2. Babylon and Sodom and Gomorrah is also mentioned. In the book of Revelation Rev 17 and 18. The USA is babylon, it is the only nation that fits the full criteria. In Micah 4 daughter ZION was sent to Babylon and returned. Micah 4 is also about the LORD's plan for the last days of the end times. The USA is also the land of ESAU and the men of EDOM, the red and hairy ones.

When the LORD God sent his daughter ZION, when his paraclete flew into America, the Prince of Peace Church in Philadelphia burned to the ground. That was a major sign to the USA that the Messenger of the Covenant had arrived on their soil.



Prophet Obadiah also predicted that ESAU would become stubble.

However, it is also important to remember that these days are being shortened for the sake of the spiritually elect. As Jesus said 'May the dark vision of the future not come to pass'.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

What is important about biblical prophecy is both the criteria and the timeline.

Timeline

1. In the day of fierce anger; relates to the judgement of the nations in the last days of the end times.

This is meant to be a serious thread to discuss facts relating to prophecy that can be proven true or false. Baseless assertions like yours don't help anything.

The Bible plainly states that the "last days" and the "end times" referred to the events fulfilled in the first century.

• Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
• 1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
• 1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour.
• Hebrews 9:26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Many other examples could be given. There is no question about this point.

Location

2. Babylon and Sodom and Gomorrah is also mentioned. In the book of Revelation Rev 17 and 18. The USA is babylon, it is the only nation that fits the full criteria. In Micah 4 daughter ZION was sent to Babylon and returned. Micah 4 is also about the LORD's plan for the last days of the end times. The USA is also the land of ESAU and the men of EDOM, the red and hairy ones.

That is absurd. The USA is not mentioned in the Bible, and the identity of the "Great City" known as Sodom, Egypt, and Babylon is expressly stated as the place where Christ was crucified, i.e. first century Jerusalem (Rev 11:8).

When the LORD God sent his daughter ZION, when his paraclete flew into America, the Prince of Peace Church in Philadelphia burned to the ground. That was a major sign to the USA that the Messenger of the Covenant had arrived on their soil.

Oh yeah! That's believable. You are not only the "Queen of the South" with "more wisdom than Solomon" and the "Messenger of the Covenant" - you are also the Paraclete! Your delusions know no limit. How utterly pathetic.

I moved your other posts in which you tried to hijack this thread to proclaim your delusional "divine mission" to their own thread here.

[Lotus Feet]

This is meant to be a serious thread to discuss facts relating to prophecy that can be proven true or false. Baseless assertions like yours don't help anything.

I provided you with plenty of facts to do with biblical prophecies that have been fulfilled.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder Ram.

So can you own it and heal it?

'false'
'baseless assertions'

Seek within the base is to do with the root chakra and it indicates that your inner child feels challenged by a different view and experience to your own. Men like to feel safe and secure, your inner child is safe in its comfort zone, time to step up and heal thyself. Its about walking the talk Ram. I understand that you have had a virus Ram, best not to provoke the LORD our God. As Jesus said to the Jewish priests if your father was my father, then you would love me. However, your accusations about Lotus Feet show the world that your foundation is not built upon that foundation of love for if it was built on love you would not accuse me.

The LORD God has given you a warning Ram, please heed it. The Rhino indicates that you have one year to resolve the issues that you hold inside of yourself.

The Bible plainly states that the "last days" and the "end times" referred to the events fulfilled in the first century.

• Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
• 1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
• 1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour.
• Hebrews 9:26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Many other examples could be given. There is no question about this point.

We will have to agree to disagree. Jesus and Daniel gave a very clear criteria for the last days of the end times and so did the other Jewish prophets. So the best thing to do in this case is to start a completely different thread on the timeline. I wrote the first paper on the timeline as compelled to do in 2009. So I can begin the thread with that and we can take it from there. Then we can resolve this once and for all.

That is absurd. The USA is not mentioned in the Bible, and the identity of the "Great City" known as Sodom, Egypt, and Babylon is expressly stated as the place where Christ was crucified, i.e. first century Jerusalem (Rev 11:8).

We will have to agree to disagree on that as well.

I will post articles on the specific chapters or links with full explanations so that they can be reviewed.

Rev 11 mentions that it was 'figuratively' and the analogy of Sodom can be applied to many nations. However, the criteria of the prophecies in Rev 17/18 can only apply to the USA. Did you know that the USA is the largest exporter of new age products in the world/ Did you know that they 85% of the world market? As I said, I will post links with explanations.

Oh yeah! That's believable. You are not only the "Queen of the South" with "more wisdom than Solomon" and the "Messenger of the Covenant" - you are also the Paraclete! Your delusions know no limit. How utterly pathetic.

It was the LORD God that told his Messenger of the Covenant that she is the Paraclete, are you going to continue to provoke the LORD God Ram? I do not recommend it.

So can you heal it?

"delusions'
'utterly pathetic'

That relates to you inner child as well. Seek within.

I moved your other posts in which you tried to hijack this thread to proclaim your delusional "divine mission" to their own thread here.

You posted a thread asking "Does Fulfilled Prophecy Prove the Bible?"

I responded with facts that proves that it does. You then accuse a holy one that responded to you with respect, with accusations.

'hijack'
'delusional'

Can you heal it? Seek within.

Interesting that you used the word hi'Jack' because in 2008, Jesus Christ said that 'the USA is the house that Jack Built'.

You do know who the accuser and adversary is don't you Richard? Do you remember a painful left jaw?

Teshuvah Richard, Teshuvah

[BibleScribe]

It seems the concensus is that there was never a sudden dissolution of Babylon. The story you cite concerning Cyrus and the lowering of the Euphrates was reported by Herodotus and has some support from Scripture (e.g. Isaiah 44:27) but that does not conform to the prophecy of a violent overthrow as presented in Isaiah 13. So as far as I can tell, this is a verifiable failed prophecy.

Hey RAM, (Richard),

LOL, -- yeah you could be right if Babylon was the Babylonian Empire.

However, if the "Babylon" cited in Isaiah were actually a reference to "mystery" Babylon (Ref. Rev. 17), then you'd have a circumstance which shall perform as provided. And where for most, "mystery" Babylon is still a "mystery", the true identity is quite simple:

The Babylonian Empire was 'the first true metropolis in western history, a business as well as an administrative center,' -- the prototype of governments as we see them to this day. The Babylonians controlled trade and commerce across western Asia, from the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Gulf, building highways, legislating business, and beautifying the capital.

Andrew Sherratt, The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Archaelogy, Crown Publishers, Inc., NY, 1980, p. 206
John B. Christopher and Robert Lee Wolf, A History of Civilization, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1967, pp. 13-14

And even the creators of "Superman" were perceptive enough to acknowledge "Metropolis" as an existent entity. So I don't think Scripture lacks accuracy or precision, but it's probably us ...



With Best Regards,
BibleScribe

[BibleScribe]

... The USA is not mentioned in the Bible ...

Hey RAM, (Richard),

I gotta laugh once again, because if the USA is NOT mentioned in the Bible, then I'd better tear entire chapters from my pages.


With Best Regards,
BibleScribe



PS For a quick reference, all one has to do is perceive that the Psalms (19th Book of the Bible) is prophetic for the 1900s, with the Chapters for the years, -- such that Psalms 44 (Book 19, Chapter 44) prophecies the Holocaust (1944). And if you considered Psalms 45, you should NOT fine the I/me/us/we of the Jewish audience for this premise, but instead find a "You". And where where verse 4 talks of learning "dread deeds" (plural)one could consider history:


1. Uranium & Plutonium

2. Gun-Assembled & Implosion

3. Little Boy & Fat Man


And what good is "dread" until they become a "deed":

4. Hiroshima & Nagasaki


... all plural ("deeds").

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hey RAM, (Richard),

LOL, -- yeah you could be right if Babylon was the Babylonian Empire.

However, if the "Babylon" cited in Isaiah were actually a reference to "mystery" Babylon (Ref. Rev. 17), then you'd have a circumstance which shall perform as provided. And where for most, "mystery" Babylon is still a "mystery", the true identity is quite simple:

The Babylonian Empire was 'the first true metropolis in western history, a business as well as an administrative center,' -- the prototype of governments as we see them to this day. The Babylonians controlled trade and commerce across western Asia, from the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Gulf, building highways, legislating business, and beautifying the capital.

Andrew Sherratt, The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Archaelogy, Crown Publishers, Inc., NY, 1980, p. 206
John B. Christopher and Robert Lee Wolf, A History of Civilization, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1967, pp. 13-14

And even the creators of "Superman" were perceptive enough to acknowledge "Metropolis" as an existent entity. So I don't think Scripture lacks accuracy or precision, but it's probably us ...



With Best Regards,
BibleScribe

Hey there BS,

If you are correct, and Isaiah was talking about "mystery Babylon" without giving us the common courtesy of telling us, then I agree that the prophecy may not have failed. But your cure is just as bad as the illness - both are fatal to the proposition that prophecy proves the Bible. If the "prophecies" are so obscure as to leave us with no certain knowledge of the identity of the object of the prophecy, then they are utterly useless for "proving" anything about the Bible!

Checkmate.