Double Metaphor? (Satan / Dragon)

[Bob May]

Hi Bob,

I agree with all this. (That doesn't mean to say I disagree with the rest of your post. I think this statement if all true, but we have to remember that Jesus IS the Lamb of God, not merely an allegory for it.)

Indeed. Natural understanding will always fall short of the revelation of and by God's mind to our inner faculty for knowing truth.

Hi Charisma, I honestly don't know if yoou are misunderstading me or not. So let me make myself clearer. The Passover lamb of the Old Testament is a symbol of the reality which is Jesus Christ. The blood on the doorposts sides and lintel were symbols of the reality of Jesus' blood on the cross. The tav cross is the shape of doorposts and lintel together. In ancient script it is the shappe of the cross of Calvry. So the allegory is the OT Passover is the symbol. The Crucifixion is the Reality. So, tthe angel of death passed over in the first Passover and we are passed from death to life because of thhe Real Passover. Now take it a step further We are crucified with Christ. Now you've got the Reality of Jesus crucifixion directly and symbolically pointing to the Reality of our lives. A double metaphor. But the symbol of Jesus' Crucifixion Actually happened. And so does it happen to us. We die to our old self. We are told to take up our cross and follow him. Ok. now let's take it a step further. What would this be ? A triple metaphor? Jesus was cruified above the place called Golgotha. Not on it,mind you, but hovering above it. There is a mystic meditation that is taught in both Eastern and Western mystic schools. In the West it is called the Point Meditation. In the East it is called the Thousand Petalled Lotus. To do this meditation the consciousness is placed Above the head in line with the spinal collumn. That is perfectly in accordance with Golgotha. And it is a tremendous help in crucifying our lower nature. Jesus said,"Look up for the fields are white to harvest already." So here is my opinion ...the least important aspect or instance of all of the foregoing exaples or chain of metaphore is whether or not the first Passover actually, physically happened. It may have or may not have but whether or not it did, the things it points to in the chain are all Real and Reality. Bob

[Charisma]

Hi Bob,

Thank you for your reply to my post. You did indeed make yourself more clear. It's late here, so I won't comment till after I've slept on it.

God bless you.

[Beck]

Paul did not say men in high places, did he? In fact, he differentiated between men (flesh an blood) and evil spirits.

In relatonship to those in high places having power it would be in that the 'flesh and blood' of those given power of the temple and law. That is those that walk after the flesh and blood of the law is evil. Therefore flesh and blood can't inherit the kingdom of Heaven. Simply those that 'hold' to the old covenant can't inherit the new covenant.

So here flesh and blood is not a notation of the physical men, but of those men that walk after the flesh of the law. This is the battle that is between the good those whom walk after the spirit which is of the body and blood of Jesus vs the evil those that walk after the flesh and blood of the old covenant laws. It is those that persecute the saints the elders and rulers, Phraisees, etc...

Beck, your reasoning does not make sense since Christians can be persecuted by men who have no authority. And we do not fight with men, period! Flesh and blood means man and that includes their spirit, otherwise they would just be an empty container. The Bible differentiates between evil spirits and man many times.

As mentioned the reference to 'flesh and blood' is a connotation of those that follow the fleshness of the law.

High places cannot mean man-made authority since Christians are persecuted by many who have no special authority.

We need to understand how those in that time thought of a mountain as being a place of high authority even in the references of heaven being up. Moses ascended upon the mountain to speak to God.

The priest and rulers are described in the OT as the host of heaven and stars. These describe the nature in how those related these men and their high places of authority. Paul wasn't telling the 21 cenutry christain of those who would persecute, but those in his particular audience. Where many had masters over them that did evil unto them.

[Bob May]

Paul did not say men in high places, did he? In fact, he differentiated between men (flesh an blood) and evil spirits.

Hi Rick, You seem to have something stuck in your craw today. We don't wrestle against flesh and blood. He is talking about men that re influenced by demons. It is the demons we wrestle with not the men.

Beck, your reasoning does not make sense since Christians can be persecuted by men who have no authority. And we do not fight with men, period! Flesh and blood means man and that includes their spirit, otherwise they would just be an empty container. The Bible differentiates between evil spirits and man many times.

Paul and others did have to deal with men in authoriy such as kings and leaders of synagoges aad Roman authorities as well as people not in authority. We don't hate the men we hate the sin.

High places cannot mean man-made authority since Christians are persecuted by many who have no special authority.

Didn't Satan bring Jesus up to a "high place" and offer him the kingdoms of the world?

In conclusion, flesh and blood refers to the whole man including his soul and spirit because it would be ridiculous for Paul to tell Christians that they don't fight with a human body all by itself without their spirit.

If a Roman soldier came to take one of your faily members away to feed to the lions, you may or may not try to kill the soldier. But would you blame the soldier for what he was doing or the system both you and he are caught up in? Peter cut of the guard's ear and Jesus told him to put his sword away. Then healed the guard's ear. So we do not wrestle againstflesh and blood but against wrong thinking both within ourselves and outside of ourselves. And some of that wrong thinking comes froom people in authority over us.
The big boys don't pay that much attention to individuals unless they begin tpo make some progress. Just my opinion, Bob
Rick[/QUOTE]

[duxrow]

Not just Double-metaphor, but MULTIPLE-metaphors! http://www.cswnet.com/~duxrow/metaphor.htm
And when you read about Amalek in that first battle after the tribes left Egypt, you can see Amalek is a type of Satan!