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  1. #1

    Doomsday prophet vows to quit predicting the Rapture

    Thought the readers on this forum might be interested -I found this on my MSN Webpage today. http://now.msn.com/now/0308-harold-camping.aspx

    Doomsday prophet vows to quit predicting the Rapture

    20 hrs ago

    Preacher Harold Camping is leaving it to the Mayans. The 90-year-old head of Family Radio incorrectly predicted the Rapture would take place on May 21, 2011, and when that didn't happen he aimed for Oct. 21, 2011, which also failed. "We have no new evidence pointing to another date for the end of the world," Camping said in a statement on the Family Radio website. His bad timing on the Rapture became a huge media event, mostly to mock him, but some of his followers quit their jobs and donated their life savings ahead of the event. Camping said he has sinned by promoting May 21 as Judgment Day and says he has no plans to ever predict the date again.



    An important letter from Mr. Camping-March 2012


    THE BOARD OF FAMILY RADIO WISHES TO POST THE FOLLOWING LETTER FROM MR. CAMPING. IT WAS OUR WISH, OUT OF RESPECT FOR OUR LISTENERS, TO MAIL OUT THIS LETTER BEFORE POSTING IT TO THE WEB SITE. HOWEVER, BECAUSE IT WAS LEAKED TO THE INTERNET WITHOUT OUR AUTHORIZATION, WE HAVE MADE THE DECISION TO POST IT IMMEDIATELY TO AVOID CONFUSION. THIS LETTER WILL ALSO BE MAILED OUT TO OUR LISTENERS.


    "God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." Romans 3:4

    Dear Family Radio Family,

    In this time of confusion and turmoil, God’s Word remains the only truth in which we can trust. God has shown us again the truth that He alone is true. In Romans 3:4 God declares: "Let God be true but every man a liar." Events within the last year have proven that no man can be fully trusted. Even the most sincere and zealous of us can be mistaken.

    The May 21 campaign was an astounding event if you think about its impact upon this world. There is no question that millions, if not billions of people heard for the first time the Bible’s warning that Jesus Christ will return. Huge portions of this world that had never read or seen a Bible heard the message the Christ Jesus is coming to rapture His people and destroy this natural world.

    Yes, we humbly acknowledge we were wrong about the timing; yet though we were wrong God is still using the May 21 warning in a very mighty way. In the months following May 21 the Bible has, in some ways, come out from under the shadows and is now being discussed by all kinds of people who never before paid any attention to the Bible. We learn about this, for example, by the recent National Geographic articles concerning the King James Bible and the Apostles. Reading about and even discussing about the Bible can never be a bad thing, even if the Bible’s authenticity is questioned or ridiculed. The world’s attention has been called to the Bible.

    We must also openly acknowledge that we have no new evidence pointing to another date for the end of the world. Though many dates are circulating, Family Radio has no interest in even considering another date. God has humbled us through the events of May 21, to continue to even more fervently search the Scriptures (the Bible), not to find dates, but to be more faithful in our understanding.

    We have learned the very painful lesson that all of creation is in God’s hands and He will end time in His time, not ours! We humbly recognize that God may not tell His people the date when Christ will return, any more than He tells anyone the date they will die physically.

    We realize that many people are hoping they will know the date of Christ’s return. In fact for a time Family Radio fell into that kind of thinking. But we now realize that those people who were calling our attention to the Bible’s statement that "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36 & Mark 13:32), were right in their understanding of those verses and Family Radio was wrong. Whether God will ever give us any indication of the date of His return is hidden in God’s divine plan.

    We were even so bold as to insist that the Bible guaranteed that Christ would return on May 21 and that the true believers would be raptured. Yet this incorrect and sinful statement allowed God to get the attention of a great many people who otherwise would not have paid attention. Even as God used sinful Balaam to accomplish His purposes, so He used our sin to accomplish His purpose of making the whole world acquainted with the Bible. However, even so, that does not excuse us. We tremble before God as we humbly ask Him for forgiveness for making that sinful statement. We are so thankful that God is so loving that He will forgive even this sin.

    So we must be satisfied to humbly wait upon God, and trust He will guide His people to safety. At Family Radio, we continue to look to God for guidance. If it is His good pleasure for us to continue on with our original mission, the proclamation of the Gospel, God’s Word, then we must continue to look to Him.

    We consider you to be a real part of this ministry and the tremendous opportunities which God, by His unfathomable mercy and grace, continues to give to us. And, your steadfast involvement and support is so appreciated!
    May God bless you,
    Harold Camping and the staff of Family Radio.



    I noticed throughout the letter that Mr. Camping does not take personal and full responsibility for his actions and those of Family Radio.

    God bless---Twospirits
    "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Rev. 21:4).

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twospirits View Post
    I noticed throughout the letter that Mr. Camping does not take personal and full responsibility for his actions and those of Family Radio.
    You got that right! He is the personification of deluded arrogance. He classes himself with "the most sincere and zealous of us" and then uses the fact that he is a liar as proof that no one can be trusted, as if he were the ultimate standard of the greatest of all servants of God. What a blind, twisted, perverted jerk!

    And what does it say about the discernment of the Christians who gave him hundreds of millions of dollars?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    ... And what does it say about the discernment of the Christians ...
    I might suggest -- what does it say about the discernment of Christians who cannot know the day or the hour, but have absolutely no clue as to the ~week~, ~month~, ~season~, ~year~, ~decade~, ~score~, ~century~, ~daytona~, or ~millennium~?

    Or equally, who is it that (like "Harold") expects a Tribulation era rapture, when Rev. 20 says the FIRST resurrection is at the beginning of the Millennial Kingdom?




    -- Maybe Scripture is more like a ~wives' tale~, -- something to consider, but not necessarily correct. --

    BibleScribe

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BibleScribe View Post
    I might suggest -- what does it say about the discernment of Christians who cannot know the day or the hour, but have absolutely no clue as to the ~week~, ~month~, ~season~, ~year~, ~decade~, ~score~, ~century~, ~daytona~, or ~millennium~?

    Or equally, who is it that (like "Harold") expects a Tribulation era rapture, when Rev. 20 says the FIRST resurrection is at the beginning of the Millennial Kingdom?




    -- Maybe Scripture is more like a ~wives' tale~, -- something to consider, but not necessarily correct. --

    BibleScribe
    The "clue" as to the "~week~, ~month~, ~season~, ~year~, ~decade~, ~score~, ~century~" was given quite explicitly in Scripture. Christ, speaking of the Temple then standing in the first century, said it would be destroyed. The disciples asked "when?" and he answered "this generation." And then history confirmed his words true when the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

    Pretty simple stuff!
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    ... Christ, speaking of the Temple then standing in the first century, said it would be destroyed. The disciples asked "when?" and he answered "this generation." And then history confirmed his words true when the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD.
    Matt 24

    3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. 'Tell us,' they said, 'when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?'

    4 Jesus answered: 'Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

    9 'Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

    15 'So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.




    I guess I missed all these events at ~33AD.

    OR, -- the generation which Jesus was speaking of is the generation of mankind on earth, which shall not pass away until ~6,000 years of existence and the Tribulation, then the Millennial Kingdom, and finally the New Jerusalem where those who are alive and remain shall be caught up, the earth shall pass away, and we shall live for eternity.



    There an awful lot of confusion as to whether I really exist, or am simply in some temporal imaginary state ...

    BibleScribe

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by BibleScribe View Post
    Matt 24

    3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. 'Tell us,' they said, 'when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?'

    4 Jesus answered: 'Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

    9 'Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

    15 'So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.




    I guess I missed all these events at ~33AD.

    OR, -- the generation which Jesus was speaking of is the generation of mankind on earth, which shall not pass away until ~6,000 years of existence and the Tribulation, then the Millennial Kingdom, and finally the New Jerusalem where those who are alive and remain shall be caught up, the earth shall pass away, and we shall live for eternity.



    There an awful lot of confusion as to whether I really exist, or am simply in some temporal imaginary state ...

    BibleScribe
    Of course you missed those events ~ you weren't even born yet!

    The phrase "this generation" means just was it means - "this generation." The only reason folks don't understand such plain and simple language is because it contradicts their preconceived ideas and makes their futurist eschatology impossible.

    This is confirmed in a thousand ways. Jesus said the Temple would be destroyed. The disciples asked when? and he said "this generation" and this is exactly what happened.

    If folks can't understand things stated this clearly, how could they hope to understand anything in the Bible?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Of course you missed those events ~ you weren't even born yet!

    The phrase "this generation" means just was it means - "this generation." ... Jesus said the Temple would be destroyed. The disciples asked when? and he said "this generation" ...

    There are MANY events which Matthew 24 depicts. Did ALL occur within 70 years? -- NO. However, are ALL occurring within the "generation" of mankind? -- YES.

    So the question is not one event as you present, but the complete history (past and yet future) in which there shall occur a war where the citizens of Israel shall flee with such haste as to be in peril of their lives if they should so much as enter their own house to prepare for their departure. And so the "generation" which Jesus spoke of is more than you depict, as history shall yet define.



    And all these things shall come to pass within the next 7 years, but not all shall be prepared even though Scripture would warn them, by date through the Prophetic Psalms (per J.R. Church's "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms), by chronological sequence through the Book of Daniel, or by the sequence of events through the Book of Revelation.



    BibleScribe

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BibleScribe View Post
    There are MANY events which Matthew 24 depicts. Did ALL occur within 70 years? -- NO. However, are ALL occurring within the "generation" of mankind? -- YES.

    So the question is not one event as you present, but the complete history (past and yet future) in which there shall occur a war where the citizens of Israel shall flee with such haste as to be in peril of their lives if they should so much as enter their own house to prepare for their departure. And so the "generation" which Jesus spoke of is more than you depict, as history shall yet define.



    And all these things shall come to pass within the next 7 years, but not all shall be prepared even though Scripture would warn them, by date through the Prophetic Psalms (per J.R. Church's "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms), by chronological sequence through the Book of Daniel, or by the sequence of events through the Book of Revelation.



    BibleScribe
    Ha! So you want to be another date setter? Here, in this thread talking about one the greatest failed date setters of all time?

    Why do you want to join the club of failed date setters? Folks have been predicting the end for two thousand years, and they've always been wrong.

    And besides all that, if the events of Matthew 24 didn't happen when Jesus said they would, then he was a false prophet. They can't be fulfilled in modern history for many reasons. First, Jesus linked his predictions to the destruction of the Temple and that already happened in 70 AD. Second, there is no temple now and any temple built by unbelieving Jews would just be a meaningless pile of rocks because God is not going to call a Temple built by unbelievers "My House."

    Your eschatology is built on sand my friend.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Ha! So you want to be another date setter?

    If as suggested by J.R. Church, the Psalms is the 19th Book of the Bible for the 1900s, and the Chapters are prophetic to the nation of Israel for the years respectively, -- such that Book 19, Chapter 44 is the Holocaust (see verses 11 & 22); and Book 19, Chapter 48 is the international recognition of Israel; etc,; -- then it would seem that Scripture provides the YEAR.


    Are you familiar with modern Jewish history to either validate or invalidate the premise, or are you emoting?


    Secondly, I don't believe that according an ancient interpretation for Matt. 24, that among many other unfulfilled aspects that the gospel was preached "in the whole world". But if Clinton can parse what "the meaning of 'is' is", then certainly someone would parse what "the whole world" is.

    BibleScribe

  10. #10
    ... one more thought, if you will be so patient ...

    If one considered that as you've cited, a generation is 70 years (per Psalms 90), and if one added 70 to 1948, they might arrive to 2018.

    Furthermore if the assertion that Psalms 118 is the middle Chapter of the entire Bible, with the shortest Chapter being 117, and the longest Chapter being 119, then is there some significance?


    And by the way, many people believe that the Tribulation is seven years, as errantly based upon Daniel's 70th "week". However, Rev. 13:5 correctly assigns a duration of 42 months. So please don't be misled into thinking that the Tribulation starts this year. The only event which may occur in the near future will be an attack by [Israel] against [Iran] which could happen in late 2012, but more likely sometime in 2013.



    And finally, we cannot know the day or the hour, (which Harold Camping violated), but we can know the ~week, ~month, ~season, ~year, ~decade, ~score, ~century, ~daytona, and ~millennia.

    BibleScribe

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