Introducing Raptureless.com

[Richard Amiel McGough]

This looks pretty interesting. He gives a history of Dispensational theology that suggests it began when they copied the ideas of some Catholic priest. That's pretty funny if true, since some Dispensationalists have made a big deal about Preterism being invented by the Catholics to divert attention from the fact that she is the Great Harlot Mystery Babylon of Revelation.

http://raptureless.com/2011/12/17/how-did-we-get-here/

[TheForgiven]

Ah yes....the infamous Jesuit Conspiracy theory. It's ironic that Futurist's accuse Full Preterist's of stemming from the Jesuits, when they never acknowledge that the same group of Jesuit's also concocted the Futurist idea. At the same time, we know from quotes of many of the early fathers that many of the same debates we're having today, were much the same as what they argued about. Elements of both Preterism and Futurism exist in their writings, yet neither were labeled as such.

Some of the early first centuries contained a few fathers who were sympathetic to Jewish existence and living, and thus taught of a future return of Jesus to restore ancient Israel as the most powerful nation to rule the world, when Christ was thought to reappear and make Israel the center of the earth, as it once was during Joshua, David, and Solomon. Unfortunately, not much of their beliefs made any sense; of course Futurist's could say the same about Preterists. Me personally, I dislike the term "Preterist" just as much as I dislike the term "Futurist". I'd say it's better to name them accordingly:

1. Fulfilled
2. Unfulfilled

Futurist believe that Jesus is yet to keep His promises to return for the Apostles, which means the Apostles are still dead, and have yet to be with the Lord. Now some Futurists believe that the Apostles, and all who have died since the time of Christ, are with the Lord, but only as a spirit without a Body. But the complete lack of proof in the Bible to suggest this is impossible to prove. We know that Elijah and Moses both appeared to Jesus during the transfiguration. But nothing suggested that the Apostles understood them to be spirits. NOPE! They existed in the heavenly splendor as Paul explained to the Corinthians. The problem with Futurists is that they view the return of Jesus as His resurrection being the exact replica of how we're supposed to be resurrected. To them, our resurrection must be an exact duplicate of Jesus; that is to say, our bones being raised from the ground and given new flesh, blood, sinew. But Jesus never said that our bodies corpse must come from the ground; that's just a theory assumed from the idea of what man "sees", as opposed to what he should understand.

At any rate, Preterists believe that Jesus kept His promise, right on time, and on schedule, and I have no reason not to believe this. Staring at someone's dead corpse is not proof that Jesus is yet to return. That's like saying that an apple being dropped to the ground cannot be validated unless you "SEE" it landing on the ground. I know logically, that if I drop an apple, gravity will do what it's required, and bring the apple to the ground, yet I need not look at it to know that it has fallen. In the same way, I need no see a body being raised from the ground to know that the righteous are with the Lord; like gravity, Jesus ensures His promise, and He thus returned for them (Apostles) as He promised. Or else, Jesus has a problem with keeping promises which Futurists believe He's yet to keep.

OK, too wordy. LOL!

Sorry.

Joe

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Ah yes....the infamous Jesuit Conspiracy theory. It's ironic that Futurist's accuse Full Preterist's of stemming from the Jesuits, when they never acknowledge that the same group of Jesuit's also concocted the Futurist idea. At the same time, we know from quotes of many of the early fathers that many of the same debates we're having today, were much the same as what they argued about. Elements of both Preterism and Futurism exist in their writings, yet neither were labeled as such.

Hey there my friend,

I thought you might find that amusing. It is indeed ironic. Those who live by the sword of the "Jesuit Conspiracy" appear to be destined to be slain by it!

And yes, some of the ECFs were very literalistic in their interpretations. Very similar to modern Futurists in some regards. But that should only serve as a reminder that there is on reason at all to elevate the ECFs to any hallowed status or authority as many do. They were just as stupid, idiosyncratic, and "creative" in their interpretations as modern folks. I see no reason to give them extra points just cuz they got borned earlier.

Someone should search the net for the Futurist claims, and compare that with the facts about the origins of Futurism. I don't have the time or inclination right now.

Some of the early first centuries contained a few fathers who were sympathetic to Jewish existence and living, and thus taught of a future return of Jesus to restore ancient Israel as the most powerful nation to rule the world, when Christ was thought to reappear and make Israel the center of the earth, as it once was during Joshua, David, and Solomon.

Yeah, and their concept of the "earth" was a roughly circular blob of land surrounded on all sides by the ocean. I'm not so sure they are reliable in their predictions about the "earth" if you know what I mean.