Richard, do you find the examples I gave you at all convincing?
Thanks for the additional information. It's very helpful.
I can see why you think that Pope John Paul II fits with the code. What first led you to calculate the value of his name?
If I understand you correctly, you think this amounts to evidence that the events of 9/11 and the death of the Pope is a message indicating that the Second Coming happened at that time. This confuses me because it implies that you are using the phrase "Second Coming" in a way that is completely inconsistent with the traditional Christian meaning. What exactly do you mean by "Second Coming" in the context of the code?
- Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
Richard, do you find the examples I gave you at all convincing?
post #41 you said that "9/11 and other events were manifestations of the Second Coming" and then you said that the Second Coming "has now occurred." Now if this is true, then it seems that your meaning of "Second Coming" is altogether different than that of traditional Christianity.
Can you see why your words have confused me?
And neither have you established that the mere appearance of words like "Pope John Paul II" or "Second Coming" should be understood as "interpretations" of modern events. As you know, people interpret the plain text of the Bible in ten thousand different ways. If the plain text is indecipherable, how much more "coded text"! How many different ways could people interpret the NBC? It's not the "evidence" of the code that is so tenuous, but rather your interpretation of it. Every generation has people who think that they are living in the "end times." Why should we begin with that presupposition which has proven to be wrong 100% of the time?
All the best,
- Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
Who is plucking phrases from newspaper headlines? Where does that come from?
Last edited by thebluetriangle; 01-26-2012 at 12:09 AM.
1) What does the phrase "Second Coming" mean in the context of the code? I can't understand anything you say until you tell me how you are interpreting that phrase. Obviously, you are not using the common meaning.
2) You said "when I was looking for phrases that fitted ordinal and standard values it was natural to chose biblical ones." The problem is that the phrase "Pope John Paul II" is not a "biblical phrase." And neither is "Second Coming."
3) You said "I am simply interpreting the code, I hope correctly." That's the problem. Given that there are ten thousand interpretations of the plain text, it seems obvious that there must be at least that many possible interpretations of the "coded text." Why is the interpretation you have chosen correct?
- Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
You're repeating yourself ad nauseum now, so I'm going to stop there.
I get the impression you've been looking at this code for so long that you have lost sight of the fact that your own idiosyncratic interpretations are not self-evident universal truths.
One other thing - your application of John 14:1-3 to the "Second Coming" is completely fallacious. It has absolutely nothing to do with that concept. If you are interested, you can read my Exegesis of John 14 for more information.
- Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
Hi Richard ( and Bill).....I wish Richard, that you had had a chance to read the book before I asked Bill to drop by the forum. I feel responsible for the way this discussion has gone and there is so much more to it than Bill has been able to discuss before it's published. This conversation isn't doing it justice ; it's rather like discussing and judging a painting when you've only laid in half the color. Any critique before its finished wouldn't be accurate as its only revealing a part of the picture .
Bill was as close to being a clean slate with Christian doctrine as anyone I knew , when I first met him. In fact, the first time I read anything he had written about the code, he was explaining it outside the context of Christianity . He had little knowledge of biblical typology at that point and yet was de-coding some very deep concepts without prior understanding, that I had only recently discovered myself after years of focused study. Not being mathematically inclined, I wasn't able to fully understand or appreciate the code until I could see it come to life in biblical typology and when I did, was quite flabbergasted that it was coming from a code found by someone who was still not convinced of any doctrine in Christianity and with little prior understanding of scripture.
I've also had several "sychronicities" that personally tied in with Bill's discoveries. Subjective I know...but I'd like to mention one if you don't mind.
I had a life-changing experience on the Feast of Trumpets, 1999 and like any date that something momentous occurs, I had a heightened sensitivity concerning that date...Sept. 11 (two years to the day, before 9/11)...and had marked it on my calendar. I won't get into details of the experience for the sake of brevity, except to say it was one of those "light-bulb" moments of revelation that changed the whole course of my beliefs and subsequent studies. I have since discovered several other people, directly and indirectly, that had similar experiences on that very day and from a combination of sychronicities , all different but in the same theme.
The Feast fell on a Sabbath that year and so the trumpet couldn't be blown until the second day of the Feast, Sept. 12th/99, the day after my experience.
From the blowing of the Trumpet on that day, until the day the towers came down, Sept. 11/01....it was exactly 729 days. 729 is the gematria for Cephas..."little rock".(on this rock I will build my church) The year 1999 also equals "729" when multiplied ( 1x9x9x9). 1999 was also the 2000 birthday of Jesus Christ.
I had discovered this just days before I first met Bill on the forum when he brought up 9/11 and the code. I had been corresponding with Bonnie Gaunt at the time and she had mentioned the "729" in relation to the gematria of Cephas. I recognized it as the number of days from the blowing of the Trumpet on Rosh Hashanah '99 to 9/11 and had looked it up on Google a few days prior to speaking with Bonnie, which brought me to Bill's description of the" 729 cube" and how it related to 9/11 in the code, described on a secular website.
I was amazed when he showed up on the forum a few days later! When I read his post about 9/11 and I saw the connection to "729"...it was as though I was seeing the 729 "stone" or little rock(Cephas)... being catapulted forward in time, from the blowing of the trumpet, to the Towers. Much to my amazement, Bonnie found many more connections to gematria and the year 1999 and the subsequent link to Cephas and 9/11 that opened it further. (I will post this after I finish as I'm sure many will find it interesting)
If you can put aside linear thinking for a moment and think of the Cross in terms of eternity "before the foundation of the world" and the effects of its fulfillment reverberating like waves in a pool flowing out from the midst or center. These ripples or manifestations, I believe, occur in a series of fulfillments (in variations on the same theme) until all mankind is restored to harmony or the Kingdom of God is fully manifested on earth. They never take away from the fulfillment of the central event...but are rather a further expression of it until all is utterly fulfilled "on earth as it is in Heaven". The "river of life" springs forth from the midst of Creation and mankind...but it brings death to the carnal before it restores life.
In the Dan. 2 account of Nebuchadnezzar's dream of the "stone cut without hands" which strikes the statue on its feet, it is a picture of the Kingdom of God becoming a "great mountain that fills the earth". (a gradual fulfillment beginning with the "stone" )
The "729/Cephas "stone" that formed on the day of the blowing of the Trumpet on Rosh Hashanah , Sept. 12/99, would then be a "ripple" of fulfillment that moves out from the center event of the Cross....and manifesting on the 729 day , with the fall of the Twin Towers on 9/11, two years later. As all things that can be shaken, will be shaken,I believe it's entirely probable that we'll see other ripples...but the underlying context is always redemption and the restoration of righteousness...or a state of "right ness" on earth, expressed by the ultimate fulfillment of the Cross.
The autumn of 1999 and particularly the Feast of Trumpets, was also marked with the sign of the woman in Rev. 12 and one which will not be seen again in the same way for thousands of years, because of the equinoxes. I don't have the particulars of that on hand..but I can find them, if you're interested.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything Richard, but rather show you that there are valid reasons why this would be meaningful for some of us...and what keeps us searching. For myself, it has nothing to do with "predicting the future". I've never studied eschatology per see. It's been a series of sychronicities that have happened as I've studied, that has woven this theme into my studies. That doesn't make it correct of course, but there is enough, for me anyway, to keep an open mind about it.
There is more than adequate evidence in typology, I believe, to suggest that it is possible that the 2000 birthday of Jesus Christ could have marked a new phase of the manifestation of Christ in His corporate "son". Or to word it another way...a new phase of enlightment or Christ consciousness in mankind. (which is how Bill first described the message of the code to me)....or a "second" coming "in and through" His creation.
As one example, in typology, the Ark...a type of Christ...went before the ecclesia, into the " midst" of the Jordan. This is a type of Jesus who goes "into a far country" or heaven...and remains there until the ecclesia have passed over into the Promised Land. (full redemption). They had to remain approximately 2000 cubits behind. It is possible then, this could fit with the 2000 years of the refinement process of the church....but does it fit with other types? I think it does.
The crossing of the Jordan in Joshua 3 is a detailed and primary type revealing and applying to the 3 phases of redemption (also typified by the 3 major feasts, Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacles... and the very structure of the bible itself..not to mention our triune nature , triune construction of the temple/tabernacle, the 1st, 2nd, 3rd day etc. Remember Jesus himself said he wouldn't be perfected until the 3rd day...and He wasn't speaking of the day of His resurrection.( Luke 13:32 ).
It is not until the ecclesia have crossed over and the second group of "12" (one from every tribe ) are called back into the midst (or heaven) and they carry back the 12 stones on their shoulders, that Christ in His corporate son (or manchild) is made manifest (or the "manifestation of the Sons of God that all of creation has been waiting for) .
Do other primary types describe both Jesus Christ and Christ in His "seed" or corporate "son(s)"? I believe they do. The Levitical Law for the Atonement sacrifice, which is the primary type of the crucifixion of Christ, is pictured in two parts...and two goats. One is killed, as Jesus was...the other imputed with the sins of the people, as scripture describes all those born in the 1st Adam, and sent living into the wilderness; a "death" work and a "living work". "As in Adam all die, in Christ, the 2nd Adam, all will be made alive." There's many more that confirm and enlarge on this concept. The crossing of the Jordan by the ecclesia is the Body of Christ picking up their cross, and following Him...becoming the "living sacrifice" as described in Romans 12:1, (as the second goat. (to make up what is left in Christ's sacrifice(Col. 1:24)...or the fulfillment of the second , living work of Christ in His seed or Body (as typified by the second part of the sacrifice). They , in essence, form the horizontal beam of the Cross as they cross over the Jordan, typifying the two parts of the sacrifice of Atonement.
The Cross occurs before the eccelsia cross over. It is not until Jesus dies and moves, as the Ark (or Head), into the "midst" (heaven) that the ecclesia or Christ in His Body or "corporate son" emerges 2000 cubits behind . It's not until they have crossed that the second set of "12" (one from every tribe) bring out the restored authority of the 2nd Adam on their shoulders (government) after they have been declared "clean" or purified. This marks the 1st resurrection of the "barley" company...or overcomers/firstfruits/manchild. There are many many more types that confirm this and enlarge on it all through scripture, but I'm trying to keep this as short as possible.
We see the concept of cleansing or purification ...again in the number "2000", with the molten sea wherein the priesthood cleansed themselves before entering the Holy of Holies. It contained 2000 baths. The "molten sea" is also a type of the Jordan (and also the Galilee or "circuit" from which the disciples are translated , again from the "midst" of the sea.)
It's interesting to note that "bath" has the root meaning of a steep cliff or precipice ;when Jesus was delivering the man of the "legion" of demons, He cast them into 2000 swine which in turn ran over a "steep cliff" into the "sea". Swine are a type of unclean food or mindsets in Levitical Law....which is what we are "cleansed" from, as we grow in the Mind of Christ. So...the "bath" could also be interpreted as the "steep cliff" or process into full immersion or "baptism" in the molten sea...or "baptism of fire" of the purification or cleansing process which "delivers" us into the "promised land" (or Tabernacle age).
The Holy Place is a type of the soul and also the place where the sanctification process, the circumcision of the heart and renewal of the mind takes place. It's height, length and width is also 2000 cubits.
Again...I know you won't agree with my interpretation here Richard...but these are 3 examples that are sufficiently interrelated to keep me interested (and others) and that's all I wanted to point out. By themselves, they might still seem like a stretch to you, but they also happen to fit neatly into the rest of typology once you see the pattern. Hopefully I can demonstrate this in another post. Keep in mind that Bill knew none of this and I'm not sure he is aware of it now.
IF 1999, the 2000 birthday of Jesus Christ marked the beginning of a new phase of the government of the Kingdom of God on earth (as the ecclesia was approximately 2000 cubits behind the ark) ... and manifested 729 /Cephas days later on 9/11....it is interesting that .we have now come to the "year of the Lamed"...2012, 12 years later from the "approximately 2000 years from the birth of Christ", with the sense that we're on the brink of a great awakening, which I know you are sensing intuitively as well. Another ripple perhaps? It certainly seems to fit with the "12 stones" as well (as related to the 729/Cephas "stone" or little rock, of 12 years ago.)
Another interesting possibility of why were are sensing an awakening this year....(NOT predicting ANYTHING here) is that at Passover of 2012, the "little rock" or stone will be 12.5 years of age from the Feast of Trumpets/1999...the age of Jesus when he went missing from his parents, and was found in the Temple, "going about His father's business". Being that this is the only mention of Jesus before his emergence just before the age of 30, and the birth of the "manchild" also occurs in Rev. 12.5 it could mark at significant time of "awakening" in our "temple". It wouldn't be the first time that the chapter and verse number describes the concept contained in the verse. That's just speculation of course...but I do find it interesting given all the other synchronocities .
If you can block off all the eschatology stuff, the futurist predictions and doctrines...and just try to stay open with the synchronicities, it would be great because I think that more than anything...it is mainly terminology or Christian lingo that's in the way here more than our fundamental beliefs. Fundamentally...in the areas I think are most important, you and I (and Bill) believe the same way: we are all One and as each of us obeys the Love and light within us, we are each moving the collective "One" towards greater enlightenment...or "Christ conciousness". We both believe the concept of eternal hell goes contrary that inner knowledge of Love, as well as the dual doctrines of the majority of christendom . We aren't surprised by the new discoveries in Quantum physics...why should we be surprised that we may be only now, beginning to understand the Logos?
Regardless of how we came to our conclusions ...really the only thing that ultimately matters to me is the conclusion itself and that it witnesses to my heart as well. In other words...I would trust your intuition, knowing it brought you to the same conclusion...even though we may have differences in our methods of arriving at it. I hope you'll keep that in mind with me, as it might eliminate some of the tension that's created when we're trying to discuss biblical concepts that can have connotations from past experiences or teachings, that may not be the connotation the other person is trying to describe at all. (that's an awkward way to put it; I hope you know what I'm trying to say) And...even more so, extended to Bill who is describing a code that he arrived at, not from any prior beliefs, but by sychronistic direction, dreams and visions.
This post is getting way too long....but I would really like to mention a bit about the phrase "second coming" as I think this is one of these areas that has a lot of baggage attached to it by fundamentalist Christianity and I'd love to be able to show a few examples in typology that you might not have considered as relating to this concept. I've never discussed them with Bill and while he will recognize them through the code, I'm not sure he's aware of how they fit together. Are you interested or shall I bow out for now?
In the meantime...I hope you don't mind if I post some of Bonnie Gaunt's writing regarding 1999 and subsequently, 9/11. I know you took exception to some of her work in a conversation we had last summer so it remains to be seen if you will see anything in it...but her work was instrumental in pointing me and many others towards a deeper study of gematria and I'm sure some will find it interesting...particularily Bill. She passed away on Monday, the 23rd of January...so I'd like to include for sentimental reasons as well as to demonstrate a few other reasons some of us are still watching for the "synchronicities" that seem to keep coming. I'll wait until you've had a chance to read this and comment before I post it though. This is already way longer than I had anticipated. Sorry about that! Thanks for listening! Kathryn
Last edited by kathryn; 01-27-2012 at 03:30 AM.
Me again :-)
Oddly enough, I don't remember ever looking up "2000" in the data bank. It isn't listed, but "1000" is...as "he who overcomes". http://www.biblewheel.com/gr/gr_1000.asp
If the "2000" could be describing what I've mentioned above...it fits with the 2 part Atonement sacrifice ....or 2 (Jesus Christ and Christ in His corporate Son(s) x 1000.
There's a nice tie-in with 1999 and the 2000th anniversary , in the comments on "999" (which, when multiplied = Cephas or "stone")
Very interesting post. My experiences with gematria, also from Bonnie Gaunt, and synchronicities started around that same time.Originally Posted by kathryn
You da man!Originally Posted by ram
I agree and I do try to stay objective, but sometimes it is hard as you will see below.Originally Posted by ram
Again, I agree, just trying to make some sense of all of this.Originally Posted by ram
In the middle of the night in the fall of 1999, something inside of me said to go up to the highest point on our 10 acres(near the Smokey Mtn Nat Park) and to take both my NIV and KJV bibles. It was lightening in the distance and I believe it sprinkled a little after I got to the top. At one point, I raised the 2 bibles, one in each hand, and started proclaiming the power of God's Word, although, I don't remember what I said specifically. Because of the synchronicities I was experiencing last year, I discovered that the only page where my 2 bibles have the same last verse is page 271 and the verse is Judges 3:22. In my NIV bible, the last word is "the" and the first word on page 272 is "sword". To me that was amazing because I started noticing the synchronicities after doing the gematria with blue, star, and Rhindon (Peter's sword that Edmund used to defeat the serpent). In the KJV bible, the NT starts over at 3 instead of continuing from the OT. On page 271 is the ending of Jude with the only mention of Michael in the NT outside of Rev., plus the first 3 verses of Rev are also on that page.
One of things I was working on last year was the 3x3 magic square. 505 was the key for me to see deeper riddles in the magic square and the 3x3x3 cube. More about that in another thread. Sarah = 505 (Hebrew). This last week we had seen the movie, Sarah's Key. There is a guy on Five Doves that believes this 28th is the rapture. I didn't pay much attention to it until someone had posted events that had happened on the 28th of Jan in recent history. What caught my eye was the sinking of U271 on Jan 28, 1944. (BTW, we captured U505 and it is in a museum in Chicago.) #271 has led me to a lot of joy, but it has also led me to a lot of pain. In the back of my mind, I wondered if I would get resolution soon. Wed. of this week my wife asked me to return some fabric at JoAnn's. She gave me a coupon, then asked me when it expired (the 28th), then had me give it back to her. When I got to the fabric counter at JoAnn's, I got ticket #28. That gave me a good laugh. When I got to the car, just as I was putting the key in the ignition, a car across from me pulled out, exposing a car with license plate 505. Hmmm, these coincidences are getting stronger. But there is more.
Thursday, I had to go to Lowe's, so my wife asked me to return something else and pick up some silver glitter glue. Before I got to the store, I told the Lord that it would be nice to have some resolution to all this gematria and synchronicities. When I got to the fabric counter, the ticket number was around 90. Okay, I thought, dead end. The girl recognizes me and says, "Back again so soon?" (something like that) I see her name tag. Sarah The chase is still on I find the glue, call my wife, she says, no, get the smaller bottle. Buy the glue. Tax comes out 28 cents. Go to Lowe's, buy my stuff, comes out to $28.67 That night we watch the new show "Touch" about a boy who sees things in numbers. Turns out his deceased mother's name is Sarah. The number he sees at the beginning is 318. Verse 318 Gen 12:19 Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way.
Add 99, the age of Abraham in Gen 17, and you get verse 417, Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. (Isaac = 208)
Friday, I had to go to Lowe's again. I checked the mail and saw that I got my w-2 from work. Because I had resigned last year, my wages were a lot lower. It was 28,333.28. Pretty strong coincidence, but the best is yet to come. Lowe's was lacking something I needed, so I went to Home Depot and then Kroger before coming home. As I was leaving the Kroger parking lot at a 4-way stop, a white car started to pull out in front of me even though I had gotten there first. I jumped on my brakes and so did he/she. I paused, they didn't move, so I just went ahead. The road came to a T in about 200 yds and then there was a stoplight on the right. The white car went around me and was now in front and left of me. My jaw dropped. My license plate is 672 --Z. His plate was 672 --X Our plates were identical except the last letter, his being X, mine being Z. The probability of that is 1/1000 x 1/26 x 1/26 x 1/24 . Over 16 million to one. You know what was missing between our two plates? Y (Why?)
Good for you if you made it to the end of my post.
Last edited by Ps 27:1; 01-28-2012 at 04:50 PM. Reason: too much info
May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer. Ps 19:14 (NIV)
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