### Bible Wheel Book

1. Originally Posted by Ps 27:1
Originally Posted by RAM
I can see why you got excited about numbers. There are a lot of striking synchronicities in your story. Your excitement reminds me about how I felt way back in the early 90s when I first discovered Greek and Hebrew gematria, when I too had many striking synchronicities that convinced me of its validity.
Ignore the validity of English gematria. I was looking for Rhindon and it was exactly in the right spot in the 42 number string. The improbability is at the minimum 1 in a billion. But that was just the tip of the iceberg. There is a ton of other stuff, some which I can't share because of privacy issues, which pushes the idea of randomness into the arena of ridiculous.
I wasn't arguing against English Gematria (even though I personally don't find it convincing). I was acknowledging that I could understand why you were impressed by those synchronistic events. I understand that they were statistically improbable. That's why I acknowledged them as "striking."

Originally Posted by Ps 27:1

There is more to this incident, but I have to bring back the gematria. Remember the indirect route I took to the church? The next day, Sunday, my wife and I went to the dollar (actually, \$2) theater to see VDT for the 7th time I figured I had to make it 7 since the movie is about recovering 7 lost swords. Well, I knew that black Rhindon = 111 and blue star Rhindon = 999. Imagine my surprise when I saw the odometer read 111,995at our house before we left. I kept my eyes on the odometer and saw it turn 111,999 a half mile before the theater. (Black and blue means you've been in a fight) The film was all washed out, pun intended. That was it for me in the theaters, although I still enjoyed the movie. Half mile out and the odo turned 112,000.

I have the video now. The film is 112 minutes. I wish I could tell you the student's name that had the 271 (Rhindon), but I think it's okay to give the gematria values. Ord value of 1st and last name = 112. Std value = 913 = "In the beginning"
Again, I can see why those events would impress you. I've had countless similar experiences. Once a person awakes to syncrhonicities they seem to multiply everywhere.

But the question remains - what does it mean?
Originally Posted by Ps 27:1
Originally Posted by RAM
So what do you think it all means? Does it serve as a kind of "confirmation" to you that the Christian God is in control of the universe? Personally, I don't see any significance in English Gematria because I can't see any way to tell whether or not it is just a bunch of random numbers and words. Of course, your personal experience of synchronicities has convinced you, but I doubt such things would ever convince anyone else. So the question is, What good is it? What does it really mean?
I was kinda wanting to ask you that But then you went off on this new quest of yours and here I am stuck with this glowing radioactive lightning rod Don't you think I've struggled with God over this? At times I feel like I'm divinating and doing something wrong and other times I feel this deep communinion with my Savior. I've cried bucket of tears over my sins and failures and I've tried to be move loving and forgiving to my fellow man.
Yeah ~ that's the question we'd all like an answer to!

What makes you think "divination" is wrong? Why would the Divine be opposed to divination? That's just a fundamentalist Christian phobia. But they are playing with "divination" all the time when they think the Divine is talking to them through coincidences like they often do. It's very common in fundamentalist Christian circles to attribute all sorts of coincidences or synchronicities to God.

I too cried many buckets over my sins back in the days I was living the life of a very devoted Christian who felt that God was talking to me through numbers, coincidences, and dreams on a regular basis. Believe me, I know what you are going through. We could be brothers.

But still the question remains - what does it all mean? Personally, I finally concluded it was a "wake up call" that led me to knowledge of the Biblical Holographs and the Bible Wheel. Those are objectively verifiable "synchronicities" that anyone can confirm for themselves, unlike my personal experiences.

Originally Posted by Ps 27:1
One of the things I was experiencing in the spring was being woken up at odd times during the night. It almost always had significance. The strongest example was on April 27, 2011. It was the 10th anniversary of my father's death. I was woken at 3:08. At appr. 8:00 pm that night, my wife came down the stairs to turn on and watch "In the Middle". Instead we saw an angry storm coming right at us on the radar. My wife tells me ,"Get the car in the garage!" Fortunately, I had just recently cleaned it out . As I was driving the car into the garage, hailsones started to fall. Was it 8:03? I don't know. Knoxville took a beating that night, as did my house. Over 16,000 worth of damage. While I was watching the news, at one point they said 8833 people were w/o power. Well, 8833= 803x11. When I checked our deed for the insurance company, I saw that our lot was 80x308. 80308
Well, I'm convinced that everything is connected, and I guess a few of us are "blessed" to see how mathematically precise the connection can be!

Originally Posted by Ps 27:1
Originally Posted by RAM
In my experience, I would have abandoned the study of gematria if I had not discovered the Biblical Holographs which are self-confirming, self-authenticating, and profoundly beautful. I've never seen anything like that in any form of English Gematria. Have you?
How hard would it be to take the English text and do what you did with the Hebrew and Greek? Only, include the ord and combined values as well. I bet a lot of people would be interested in it, myself included.
It would be very easy indeed. Unfortunately, I'm not very inclined to bother since I don't believe it will really help anyone. Most people who are into English gematria are trying to predict the end of the world and they often are very foolish in their thinking (present company excepted, of course). I really don't want to add fuel to the fire of their confused minds, and I don't want to make myself look foolish by seeming to advocate irrationality. But I'll think about it and maybe change my mind.

Originally Posted by Ps 27:1
The biggest question I have for you is not over English gematria, but how you can see all the beauty in the work you've done and experienced the synchronicities, yet believe that "God" is not involved?

Be blessed,
Steve
I never said that "God" was not involved. It's just that my definition of God has changed. I don't believe the traditional God of Christian theism exists because that concept is a mish-mash of an ancient Bronze-age war god with a logically incoherent "God of the philosophers" so I literally CANNOT believe in such a God because there is nothing to believe in (logical contradictions cannot be "believed"). And I do not believe in Christianity for a number of reasons. The top three are:

1) The Doctrine of Hell
I cannot conceive of a good God who would design an eternal evil in which souls suffer eternal conscious torment. This is a central doctrine accepted by the vast majority of Christians.

2) The Bible contains many errors, contradictions, logical absurdities, and moral abominations attributed to God.

This point covers a very large class of problems. Many recent threads deal with them. The most significant to me are the moral abominations attributed to God, such as his command to kill all the men, women, and children of people in Canaan.

3) God does not, as a general rule, answer prayers.
This fact seems incontrovertible and it directly contradicts the central promises of the Bible. It was the "final straw" for me.

Of course, this presents me with a HUGE mystery of how the Bible Wheel came to be and what it really means. I have discovered that it is not as perfect as I once thought, and that there may be an evolutionary explanation for much of it, but there remains much that seems to indicate design. So I just put that on my shelf labeled "Unsolved Mysteries" and am willing to wait till more understanding comes.

It is wonderful to be chattering with you Steve. Like I said, we are very similar in a lot of ways.

All the best,

Richard

2. Hi Richard,

First of all, I want to thank you for taking the time to respond to my posts. That means a lot to me.

What makes you think "divination" is wrong? Why would the Divine be opposed to divination? That's just a fundamentalist Christian phobia. But they are playing with "divination" all the time when they think the Divine is talking to them through coincidences like they often do. It's very common in fundamentalist Christian circles to attribute all sorts of coincidences or synchronicities to God.
Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

But then we have Joseph:

Gen 44:15 And Joseph said unto them, What deed is this that ye have done? wot ye not that such a man as I can certainly divine?

I too cried many buckets over my sins back in the days I was living the life of a very devoted Christian who felt that God was talking to me through numbers, coincidences, and dreams on a regular basis. Believe me, I know what you are going through. We could be brothers.
When we were corresponding in 2007, I wanted to drive out there in the summer. Even this last year, I wanted to go out there to share what was going on in my heart and mind. My blood brother skipped a grade or two in high school and has a Phd in linguistics. Me, I flunked a semester of Geometry and then after an A.S. degree in Auto Service ( which is about obsolete now) decided to go on in math and ended up with a B.S. in Math Ed. I'm only good for HS math at that and forget the calculus. Been too long ago. So yeah, I'm sure I would feel plenty intimidated by your expertise and knowledge and it would make me feel like being around my blood brother

But still the question remains - what does it all mean? Personally, I finally concluded it was a "wake up call" that led me to knowledge of the Biblical Holographs and the Bible Wheel. Those are objectively verifiable "synchronicities" that anyone can confirm for themselves, unlike my personal experiences.

What was my sin? I told who I thought was a fellow christian, that I had a very impressionable dream in 1999 that I felt led me to that school. That in 2007, I had a deeply religious experience where I lost a lot of sleep and became very concerned for my students. And yes, that I had this 3 min vision, but I didn't know what to think of it at the time. Then in 2011, I had a lot of stange coincidences happen to me and I felt that God wanted me to leave that year. Well, my wife was upset about me quitting, so I told the principal to put my resignation on hold. Nothing was in writing, the principal even said. Well that night was the night of the massive hailstorm. The next day, they took me out of my 2nd period class and put me on administrative leave with pay until pyschiatric evaluation.

What was even weird that day, in my 2nd period class just before they came and got me, a student named John asked me, "Mr B, do you love me?" I said, "Of course I do." Again he asks me, "Mr B, do you really love me?". "Yes John, I really love." The third time. "Are you sure that you love me?" Ok, time for a lesson in logic. I said," John, you know me well enough by now. Have I ever lied to you." "Mr B, you're a good man. You are honest with us." "Well, then why don't you believe me when I tell you that I love you." "You know, Mr B, I hadn't thought of it like that, but you're right."

I don't remember the exact words, but I believe I caught the gist of it. It was shortly after that that they took me out. Kind of freaky. I'm sure when I described that to the pyschiatrist, that just gave him more ammo for the narcissist label. Oh well.

I thought about suing the school district and a lawyer I talked to said I had a good case, but I'm not sure that God wants me to go that route.

It would be very easy indeed. Unfortunately, I'm not very inclined to bother since I don't believe it will really help anyone. Most people who are into English gematria are trying to predict the end of the world and they often are very foolish in their thinking (present company excepted, of course). I really don't want to add fuel to the fire of their confused minds, and I don't want to make myself look foolish by seeming to advocate irrationality. But I'll think about it and maybe change my mind.
I'm not so much wanting to see the end of the world, but rather the end of suffering and pain. I also want to see my Lord and family members. There will always be people who will misuse your work. I don't have a mind like yours or the skills you have and I would really love to see the bible done in English gematria. I don't think it would really add fuel to the fire. If nothing is there, I'll be the first to admit it. But who knows, we may all be surprised and you have the skills to pull it off. I don't. I guess I want to know if God really instigated this quest I'm on or if some evil spirit is just messing with my mind.

As far as your top three problems:

I agree with you on the hell issue. But I also can't see God saving people like Hitler, therefore, a literal 2nd death(annihilation) makes the most sense to me and I believe it is biblical.

I really don't have an answer for you on the 2nd point. I just trust that God has it all worked out somehow. I know that seems like a copout, Sorry.

On the 3rd, I have seen God work so many things out in my Life, that I have to believe Romans 8. As far as answering specific prayers, yes, I've seen that and I have a big one in the queue right now concerning my employment and direction in my spiritual life.

I, too, have wondered why God doesn't answer more prayers and my wife feels very close to how you feel. I just keep hanging on that somehow He is going to make sense of all of this. It's interesting that in Matt 25, people are judged not on what they think of God but what they think of their fellow man.

Be Blessed,
Steve

3. Originally Posted by Ps 27:1
Hi Richard,

First of all, I want to thank you for taking the time to respond to my posts. That means a lot to me.
It is my pleasure Steve. I'm glad you have a place to share all your experiences. There weren't any online forums when I had my experiences back in the early 90s so I just went around bending the ears of everyone random person I met in hopes of finding someone who could appreciate what I was experiencing. It didn't work out too well. But then around 2001 I began talking on internet forums with "Christians" and that didn't work any better! Oh well ... I guess I should have copped a clue that the experiences were "for me" and didn't mean squat to anyone else (for the most part).

Originally Posted by Ps 27:1
What makes you think "divination" is wrong? Why would the Divine be opposed to divination? That's just a fundamentalist Christian phobia. But they are playing with "divination" all the time when they think the Divine is talking to them through coincidences like they often do. It's very common in fundamentalist Christian circles to attribute all sorts of coincidences or synchronicities to God.
Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

But then we have Joseph:

Gen 44:15 And Joseph said unto them, What deed is this that ye have done? wot ye not that such a man as I can certainly divine?
You need to research the meaning of "divination" in that verse. It is Strong's #7081:
קסם qecem {keh'-sem} from 07080; TWOT - 2044a; n m AV - divination 9, witchcraft 1, divine sentence 1; 11 1) divination, witchcraft 1a) of the nations, Balaam 1b) of false prophets 1c) in a good sense (king's lips as oracles)
It is used in the "positive" sense in Proverbs:
NKJ Proverbs 16:10 Divination is on the lips of the king; His mouth must not transgress in judgment.
But this doesn't even really matter, because you have not given any reason to think that analyzing numbers has anything to do with the kind of "divination" prohibited in the Bible.

Ignorance, fear, and prejudice lie at the root of many of the Christian hangups.

Originally Posted by Ps 27:1
Originally Posted by RAM
I too cried many buckets over my sins back in the days I was living the life of a very devoted Christian who felt that God was talking to me through numbers, coincidences, and dreams on a regular basis. Believe me, I know what you are going through. We could be brothers.
When we were corresponding in 2007, I wanted to drive out there in the summer. Even this last year, I wanted to go out there to share what was going on in my heart and mind. My blood brother skipped a grade or two in high school and has a Phd in linguistics. Me, I flunked a semester of Geometry and then after an A.S. degree in Auto Service ( which is about obsolete now) decided to go on in math and ended up with a B.S. in Math Ed. I'm only good for HS math at that and forget the calculus. Been too long ago. So yeah, I'm sure I would feel plenty intimidated by your expertise and knowledge and it would make me feel like being around my blood brother
Well, we've all got our talents and our limitations. There are plenty of people that make me feel small. And there are times I feel like I'm on top of it all.

Originally Posted by Ps 27:1

What was my sin? I told who I thought was a fellow christian, that I had a very impressionable dream in 1999 that I felt led me to that school. That in 2007, I had a deeply religious experience where I lost a lot of sleep and became very concerned for my students. And yes, that I had this 3 min vision, but I didn't know what to think of it at the time. Then in 2011, I had a lot of stange coincidences happen to me and I felt that God wanted me to leave that year. Well, my wife was upset about me quitting, so I told the principal to put my resignation on hold. Nothing was in writing, the principal even said. Well that night was the night of the massive hailstorm. The next day, they took me out of my 2nd period class and put me on administrative leave with pay until pyschiatric evaluation.

What was even weird that day, in my 2nd period class just before they came and got me, a student named John asked me, "Mr B, do you love me?" I said, "Of course I do." Again he asks me, "Mr B, do you really love me?". "Yes John, I really love." The third time. "Are you sure that you love me?" Ok, time for a lesson in logic. I said," John, you know me well enough by now. Have I ever lied to you." "Mr B, you're a good man. You are honest with us." "Well, then why don't you believe me when I tell you that I love you." "You know, Mr B, I hadn't thought of it like that, but you're right."

I don't remember the exact words, but I believe I caught the gist of it. It was shortly after that that they took me out. Kind of freaky. I'm sure when I described that to the pyschiatrist, that just gave him more ammo for the narcissist label. Oh well.

I thought about suing the school district and a lawyer I talked to said I had a good case, but I'm not sure that God wants me to go that route.
Sorry to hear about all that. Folks are so small-minded sometimes. Maybe your "enthusiasm" made them think you are nuts. In any case, it doesn't look like they had a case from what you've written. It's hard to imagine they'd take you out of the classroom without any specific charges.

The question "do you love me" repeated three times is a pretty obvious play off of John 21. Interesting!

Originally Posted by Ps 27:1
Originally Posted by RAM
It would be very easy indeed. Unfortunately, I'm not very inclined to bother since I don't believe it will really help anyone. Most people who are into English gematria are trying to predict the end of the world and they often are very foolish in their thinking (present company excepted, of course). I really don't want to add fuel to the fire of their confused minds, and I don't want to make myself look foolish by seeming to advocate irrationality. But I'll think about it and maybe change my mind.
I'm not so much wanting to see the end of the world, but rather the end of suffering and pain. I also want to see my Lord and family members. There will always be people who will misuse your work. I don't have a mind like yours or the skills you have and I would really love to see the bible done in English gematria. I don't think it would really add fuel to the fire. If nothing is there, I'll be the first to admit it. But who knows, we may all be surprised and you have the skills to pull it off. I don't. I guess I want to know if God really instigated this quest I'm on or if some evil spirit is just messing with my mind.
I'll consider making an English version. If I feel inspired, I'll do it.

Do you know Bill Downie? He had a series of intense synchronicities that led to his discovery of what he calls the "New Bible Code." Here's his site:

http://www.thenewbiblecode.comuf.com/

He thinks the NIV was specifically coded by God using English Gematria. I've discussed his conclusions a bit on this forum, but my skeptical view of English Gematria pretty much stopped the conversation from going very far. He took a lot of the numerical geometry stuff that Vernon Jenkin's and I developed and applied it to English Gematria. He got some beautiful looking results, but nothing like the integrity that we see in the Biblical Holographs. He's been working this stuff for years, and I asked if he ever discovered anything like the holographs and he said no.

Originally Posted by Ps 27:1
As far as your top three problems:

I agree with you on the hell issue. But I also can't see God saving people like Hitler, therefore, a literal 2nd death(annihilation) makes the most sense to me and I believe it is biblical.
That was my choice for a long time, but then I realized that Hitler was human too. We demonize him because of the magnitude of his crimes, but what about other sinners with equally evil heart who didn't have the opportunity to rise to great power, so they did no big crimes? Their hearts are the same. If we demonize anyone we demonize everyone. We are all human. All can be redeemed. Origin (2nd century) believed even the devil would be redeemed. Why not? I think this would "give God greater glory." But I don't think that way anyway. The idea of "giving God glory" makes God look like a HUGE EGO that cares only about himself. It's so typical of a male dominated god projected from the human ego. And this touches the real problem underlying the doctrine of hell. Christianity posits an eternal duality of good and evil. In Christianity there never will be a time when God is really "all in all" because there will be a place of eternal conscious torment. I think that's insane. It is a product of demented human souls. Just look at the history of the people who developed these ideas. They were happy to torture people to death for "thought crimes" they called "heresy." Why should we believe a religion invented by cruel madmen who tortured and killed people and oppressed women for 2000 years? Obviously, something was very wrong with their souls.

Originally Posted by Ps 27:1
I really don't have an answer for you on the 2nd point. I just trust that God has it all worked out somehow. I know that seems like a copout, Sorry.
Thanks for the honesty! It is the path to freedom.

The Bible is obviously a very significant book considering the role it has played in the development of Western Civilization. But why should we believe it is true? If it obviously contains errors, contradictions, and moral abominations attributed to God, why twist our heads around to try to come up with ways to "fix" it? Why not just be free and speak the truth?

Originally Posted by Ps 27:1
On the 3rd, I have seen God work so many things out in my Life, that I have to believe Romans 8. As far as answering specific prayers, yes, I've seen that and I have a big one in the queue right now concerning my employment and direction in my spiritual life.

I, too, have wondered why God doesn't answer more prayers and my wife feels very close to how you feel. I just keep hanging on that somehow He is going to make sense of all of this. It's interesting that in Matt 25, people are judged not on what they think of God but what they think of their fellow man.

Be Blessed,
Steve
I really understand your position - indeed, it is how I looked at things for many years. But then the "Christian spell" just burst, and all the kings men and all the kings horses ain't gonna put that back together again.

Great chatting my friend!

Richard

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Richard:
Do you know Bill Downie? He had a series of intense synchronicities that led to his discovery of what he calls the "New Bible Code." Here's his site:

http://www.thenewbiblecode.comuf.com/

He thinks the NIV was specifically coded by God using English Gematria. I've discussed his conclusions a bit on this forum, but my skeptical view of English Gematria pretty much stopped the conversation from going very far. He took a lot of the numerical geometry stuff that Vernon Jenkin's and I developed and applied it to English Gematria. He got some beautiful looking results, but nothing like the integrity that we see in the Biblical Holographs. He's been working this stuff for years, and I asked if he ever discovered anything like the holographs and he said no.

Hi Richard...I had an email from William yesterday. He has a new book coming out in April on the Code with many new insights. I had the privilege of reading it before it went to the publisher. As you say, the synchronicities that accompanied his journey were intense.
I was telling him that he is missed on the BW and he said he would check in one of these days.
I think you would enjoy conversing with him Stephen! (and many thanks for sharing your insights and experiences with us all! You have many fellow "dreamers" on the forum who can identify with your excitement and sympathize with the not so nice aspects of being so inclined too
I bet you wouldn't trade it for anything though, yes? :-)

5. Originally Posted by kathryn
Hi Richard...I had an email from William yesterday. He has a new book coming out in April on the Code with many new insights. I had the privilege of reading it before it went to the publisher. As you say, the synchronicities that accompanied his journey were intense.
I was telling him that he is missed on the BW and he said he would check in one of these days.
I think you would enjoy conversing with him Stephen! (and many thanks for sharing your insights and experiences with us all! You have many fellow "dreamers" on the forum who can identify with your excitement and sympathize with the not so nice aspects of being so inclined too
I bet you wouldn't trade it for anything though, yes? :-)
Bill sent me a few chapters of his book to review before publication. He was hoping I would write an endorsement but my skepticism prevented that from happening. He's a very intelligent and hard working guy - he's really put his heart and soul into his work on the encoding of the Second Coming in events of 9/11 and in the NIV via English Gematria. He was kicked in that direction by some synchronicities, so I can appreciate how it would give him a strong sense of validity, but I can't personally see any reality in his thesis because it seems to be made of seemingly "random" connections and based on presuppositions about the "Second Coming" that I don't believe. But I could be wrong, and I'm open minded enough to look at it again. I think the most important thing is to be open-minded about synchronicities and all that, but I have always felt it necessary to "ground" any conclusions in objective reality. I would have quit gematria if not for the discovery of the self-authenticating Biblical Holographs. I asked Bill if he had ever discovered anything like that in English Gematria and he said no. So I don't have reason to think it is "real" as yet.

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Originally Posted by RAM
Bill sent me a few chapters of his book to review before publication. He was hoping I would write an endorsement but my skepticism prevented that from happening. He's a very intelligent and hard working guy - he's really put his heart and soul into his work on the encoding of the Second Coming in events of 9/11 and in the NIV via English Gematria. He was kicked in that direction by some synchronicities, so I can appreciate how it would give him a strong sense of validity, but I can't personally see any reality in his thesis because it seems to be made of seemingly "random" connections and based on presuppositions about the "Second Coming" that I don't believe. But I could be wrong, and I'm open minded enough to look at it again. I think the most important thing is to be open-minded about synchronicities and all that, but I have always felt it necessary to "ground" any conclusions in objective reality. I would have quit gematria if not for the discovery of the self-authenticating Biblical Holographs. I asked Bill if he had ever discovered anything like that in English Gematria and he said no. So I don't have reason to think it is "real" as yet.
Hi Richard....I'm glad that you're remaining open-minded. I never doubted you would
I know what you mean about having to ground conclusions in objective reality. I wouldn't have been able to do it mathematically, but I did find a solid ground in my own area of the study of typology in much of what William has discovered, which is why I found it so fascinating...and...of course the sychronicities that guided him. I mean he had people coming up to him out of no where, giving him the next clue!

If we are all One...I'm not sure why the language the "universal mind" is speaking to us should make a difference. I do understand what you are saying about the Biblical Holographs though and why you would want to see more proof. I think we're on the cusp of some mind-blowing discoveries in every area and like you, I'm keeping my mind open!
Last edited by kathryn; 01-19-2012 at 01:15 PM.

7. Originally Posted by kathryn
Hi Richard....I'm glad that you're remaining open-minded. I never doubted you would
I know what you mean about having to ground conclusions in objective reality. I wouldn't have been able to do it mathematically, but I did find a solid ground in my own area of the study of typology in much of what William has discovered, which is why I found it so fascinating...and...of course the sychronicities that guided him. I mean he had people coming up to him out of no where, giving him the next clue!

If we are all One...I'm not sure why the language the "universal mind" is speaking to us should make a difference. I do understand what you are saying about the Biblical Holographs though and why you would want to see more proof. I think we're on the cusp of some mind-blowing discoveries in every area and like you, I'm keeping my mind open!
That's great!

Minds are like parachutes ... they only work when opened!

I too think we are on the cusp of a major transformation. And it may be that the Bible will play an important role. That seems pretty reasonable given the role it has played on the development of Western civilization in the last 2000 years. But I am quite certain that the fundamentalist interpretation will fall to the wayside. It's fundamentally wrong because it fundamentally divides the world into "us and them" and even maps that division onto eternity with the doctrine of eternal hell. That is the most fundamental contradiction with the Universal and Eternal Wisdom which says that God is one and all in all. Do you know how the Sufis (mystic Muslims) understand the statement "There is no God but God?" (La illalah il allah). It is repeated over and over until the devotee loses the sense of separateness from Allah (God) and falls into the state of mystical union with the Divine. This is the core mystical teaching of all religions - it is called the "Perennial Philosophy."

There was a Sufi mystic who was killed for saying the words of Christ: I am the Truth. Here's the report from the wiki:
Mansur believed in union with the Divine, that God was within him, and that he and God had become one and the same. Mansur was cut into many pieces because in the state of ecstacy he exclaimed Ana al Haq "I am the truth". He was executed in public in Baghdad. They cut him into pieces and then they burnt his remains. He kept repeating "I am the Truth" as they kept cutting his arms, legs, tongue and finally his head. He was smiling, even as they chopped off his head. Al-Hallaj wanted to testify of this relationship to God to others thus even asking his fellow Muslims to kill him (Massignon, 79) and accepting his execution, saying that "what is important for the ecstatic is for the One to reduce him to oneness." (Massignon, 87) He also referred to the martyrdom of Christ, saying he also wanted to die "in the supreme confession of the cross" (Olivier Clément. Dio è carita, p. 41) Like Christ, he gave his execution a redemptive significance, believing as he did that his death "was uniting his beloved God and His community of Muslims against himself and thereby bore witness in extremis to the tawhid (the oneness) of both." (Mason, 25) For his desire of oneness with God, many Muslims criticized him as a "'crypto-Christian' for distorting the monotheistic revelation in a Christian way." (Mason, 25). His death is described by Attar as a heroic act, as when they are taking him to court, a Sufi asks him:"What is love?" He answers: "You will see it today, tomorrow, and the day after tomorrow." They killed him that day, burned him the next day and threw his ashes to the wind the day after that. "This is love," Attar says. His legs were cut off, he smiled and said, "I used to walk the earth with these legs, now there's only one step to heaven, cut that if you can." And when his hands were cut off he paints his face with his own blood, when asked why, he says: "I have lost a lot of blood, and I know my face has turned yellow, I don't want to look pale-faced (as of fear)... ."

Heavy stuff, eh? Folks gotta get over the exclusivist form of Christianity. I believe excluding others is the gravest of sins. How could it possibly be embedded in the core of Christianity? Something is wrong here.

Great chatting!

Richard

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Originally Posted by RAM
That's great!

Minds are like parachutes ... they only work when opened!

I too think we are on the cusp of a major transformation. And it may be that the Bible will play an important role. That seems pretty reasonable given the role it has played on the development of Western civilization in the last 2000 years. But I am quite certain that the fundamentalist interpretation will fall to the wayside. It's fundamentally wrong because it fundamentally divides the world into "us and them" and even maps that division onto eternity with the doctrine of eternal hell. That is the most fundamental contradiction with the Universal and Eternal Wisdom which says that God is one and all in all. Do you know how the Sufis (mystic Muslims) understand the statement "There is no God but God?" (La illalah il allah). It is repeated over and over until the devotee loses the sense of separateness from Allah (God) and falls into the state of mystical union with the Divine. This is the core mystical teaching of all religions - it is called the "Perennial Philosophy." Wow! No , I didn't know anything about the Sufis. Is there a book or site you could recommend I look at concerning "Perennial Philosophy"? And yes, I agree fully with what you're saying about the fundamentalist interpretation. I do see some promising signs that its slowly being flushed out. I have a good feeling about the year of the "lamed" , as you do...and I have a sense that it might be like the clog in the proverbial drainpipe; there's a clarity increasing that's going to push the clog out of the drain for many.

There was a Sufi mystic who was killed for saying the words of Christ: I am the Truth. Here's the report from the wiki:
Mansur believed in union with the Divine, that God was within him, and that he and God had become one and the same. Mansur was cut into many pieces because in the state of ecstacy he exclaimed Ana al Haq "I am the truth". He was executed in public in Baghdad. They cut him into pieces and then they burnt his remains. He kept repeating "I am the Truth" as they kept cutting his arms, legs, tongue and finally his head. He was smiling, even as they chopped off his head. Al-Hallaj wanted to testify of this relationship to God to others thus even asking his fellow Muslims to kill him (Massignon, 79) and accepting his execution, saying that "what is important for the ecstatic is for the One to reduce him to oneness." (Massignon, 87) He also referred to the martyrdom of Christ, saying he also wanted to die "in the supreme confession of the cross" (Olivier Clément. Dio è carita, p. 41) Like Christ, he gave his execution a redemptive significance, believing as he did that his death "was uniting his beloved God and His community of Muslims against himself and thereby bore witness in extremis to the tawhid (the oneness) of both." (Mason, 25) For his desire of oneness with God, many Muslims criticized him as a "'crypto-Christian' for distorting the monotheistic revelation in a Christian way." (Mason, 25). His death is described by Attar as a heroic act, as when they are taking him to court, a Sufi asks him:"What is love?" He answers: "You will see it today, tomorrow, and the day after tomorrow." They killed him that day, burned him the next day and threw his ashes to the wind the day after that. "This is love," Attar says. His legs were cut off, he smiled and said, "I used to walk the earth with these legs, now there's only one step to heaven, cut that if you can." And when his hands were cut off he paints his face with his own blood, when asked why, he says: "I have lost a lot of blood, and I know my face has turned yellow, I don't want to look pale-faced (as of fear)... ."

Heavy stuff, eh?Wow! Yes! Folks gotta get over the exclusivist form of Christianity. I believe excluding others is the gravest of sins. How could it possibly be embedded in the core of Christianity? Something is wrong here. Yes...indeed there is!

Great chatting!

Richard

9. I too think we are on the cusp of a major transformation. And it may be that the Bible will play an important role. That seems pretty reasonable given the role it has played on the development of Western civilization in the last 2000 years. But I am quite certain that the fundamentalist interpretation will fall to the wayside. It's fundamentally wrong because it fundamentally divides the world into "us and them" and even maps that division onto eternity with the doctrine of eternal hell. That is the most fundamental contradiction with the Universal and Eternal Wisdom which says that God is one and all in all. Do you know how the Sufis (mystic Muslims) understand the statement "There is no God but God?" (La illalah il allah). It is repeated over and over until the devotee loses the sense of separateness from Allah (God) and falls into the state of mystical union with the Divine. This is the core mystical teaching of all religions - it is called the "Perennial Philosophy." Wow! No , I didn't know anything about the Sufis. Is there a book or site you could recommend I look at concerning "Perennial Philosophy"? And yes, I agree fully with what you're saying about the fundamentalist interpretation. I do see some promising signs that its slowly being flushed out. I have a good feeling about the year of the "lamed" , as you do...and I have a sense that it might be like the clog in the proverbial drainpipe; there's a clarity increasing that's going to push the clog out of the drain for many.
The classic text is called The Perennial Philosophy by Aldous Huxley.

Sufism is the perennial philosophy clothed in the language of Islam, and many Muslims say that it is the "heart" of Islam not unlike Jews who say that the Kabbalah is the heart of Judaism. Here's an interesting link to Sufism:

http://www.surrenderworks.com/librar...ics/index.html

A few minutes on Google will give you more information than you could digest in a year, I am sure.

And yes, I do have a very good feeling about the "Year of Lamed." Maybe it is the year we will go forth - Lekh Lekhah - like God commanded Abram in Genesis 12. The fact that the 12th chapter of Genesis is marked by the double Lamed KeyWord that means "go forth" (the essence of Lamed as the pointer or goad) always struck me as very significant.

I had a special focus on my ribs as we entered 2012 because I was roughhousing with my nephew on Christmas Day and tore the ligaments between a couple ribs on my left side. A few days later I suffered excruciating pain when I merely burped because it moved the wounded ribs. I used that as an opportunity to mediate upon being present in my body, and upon the nice coincidence that linked to the entrance into the year number 12.

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Originally Posted by RAM
The classic text is called The Perennial Philosophy by Aldous Huxley.

Sufism is the perennial philosophy clothed in the language of Islam, and many Muslims say that it is the "heart" of Islam not unlike Jews who say that the Kabbalah is the heart of Judaism. Here's an interesting link to Sufism:

http://www.surrenderworks.com/librar...ics/index.html

A few minutes on Google will give you more information than you could digest in a year, I am sure.

And yes, I do have a very good feeling about the "Year of Lamed." Maybe it is the year we will go forth - Lekh Lekhah - like God commanded Abram in Genesis 12. The fact that the 12th chapter of Genesis is marked by the double Lamed KeyWord that means "go forth" (the essence of Lamed as the pointer or goad) always struck me as very significant.

I had a special focus on my ribs as we entered 2012 because I was roughhousing with my nephew on Christmas Day and tore the ligaments between a couple ribs on my left side. A few days later I suffered excruciating pain when I merely burped because it moved the wounded ribs. I used that as an opportunity to mediate upon being present in my body, and upon the nice coincidence that linked to the entrance into the year number 12.
Thanks for the title and link!
So sorry to hear about your ribs. I broke several a few years ago, also on the left side...so I know what you mean by the pain! Very interesting though, that it came at the head of 2012...and great that you were able to turn it into a meditation. Was it in the upper 7 ribs or the lower 5?

PS...and yes...the "go forth" sounds very promising! I'm especially interested because of the lamed/tongue connection with the et kol and the voice of God (qowl). Maybe the "voice" of the One is going to go forth in a new and powerful manner!

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