Man of Lawlessness?

[heb13-13]

Hi Steve,

I am not using logic nor assumptions.

But by your logic and assumptions this won't be an edifying discussion.

So, I will graciously bow out if you don't mind.

Have a good time,
Rick

Hey there Steve,

I just wanted to clarify in case you misunderstand my statement above. I am graciously bowing out because I have presented my case and am confident from some of your responses to me that you may be able to "hear" others better.

God bless you in your search for truth,
Rick

[Ps 27:1]

Hey there Richard,

Third time's a charm. In your post #52, all the quotes are attributed to me when in reality, I lay claim to only 1,3,4,5. 2 and 6 belong to Shalom. I was vacillating over whether to continue posting in this thread, so I told God that since he is in control of everything, let your innocent misquotes be my answer. So I took the 1,3,4,5 and what do I get? First word = Jew, last word = forehead. 2nd verse out of 5 =

Psa 27:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

Thanks for the synchronicity and answer to a prayer.

Yes, Paul (and most other biblical writers) liked hyperbole. But I was not addressing that argument. I was trying to point out that you seem to be confusing "ritual cleanliness" with literal physical cleanliness as if the purpose of the law was to keep people physically healthy. If that were the case, then the law is not relevant since we don't have physical health problems from eating shellfish and whatnot.

Like Shalom said, the distinction was there during Noah's time. As far as health problems, you are aware that they did a study on SDAs and found they live on average 7+ years longer than average. But I'm not here to debate eating pork or not. Personally, the smell of pork cooking makes me want to puke.

Please cite the specific verse where Paul makes a "distinction" between circumcision and the ten commandments.

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Interestingly, Paul uses a similar statement in:

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

We see that faith which worketh by love and keeping the commandments of God are what matter and that agrees with :

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Hi Charisma,

I never said or implied that keeping the law was separate from grace through faith
I believe this statement is at variance with the teaching of the New Testament.

Sorry for my lack of clarity. What I was trying to say is that it is only grace through faith that enables us to keep God's law. See Romans 8 and i John.

Before I quote it, let me say a different way, that the keeping of the New Covenant includes keeping the spirit of the laws previously reaching only to an external standard, and, to a supremely higher standard than that of the Mosaic Covenant (which did not exist in the minds of the people until Moses received it on the Mount and passed it on) - which is not to say or suggest that the cultural benefits of the Mosaic Covenant have been done away: rather, they have been strengthened to the degree that without the Holy Spirit, they are beyond keeping.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


If you still don't understand what Paul is saying here, please ask the Lord to explain it to you in a way you will understand. I know it took me years to 'get it', so learning from Him is probably quicker!

Oh, I think I get what Paul is saying. I grew up with parents who went to Moody and I went to Baptist churches for years. I've also read many books by "learned" men on the subject of law and grace and one of my fav, chapters is Romans 8. I think scholars can sometimes fall into the trap of making something simple complicated. As a HS math teacher, I have seen engineers, wanting to be teachers, that couldn't connect with the students because they made things unnecessarily complicated.

Let me use an analogy so you can see where I'm coming from. James talks about the law as a mirror. Now if I need to wash up or comb my hair, I don't just stare at the mirror, I get some soap and a comb to fix my mess. But I still look at the mirror to make sure I haven't missed anything. As James said, when I walk away from the mirror I forget what I look like. That is why he says intently and continually. My mess is not the mirrors fault and you're right, the mirror is powerless to clean my mess. I need soap, water, and a comb. This is where the blood of Jesus comes in and the power of the Holy Spirit. But I don't smash the mirror or close my eyes because I don't like what I see in the mirror. Neither do I throw away the mirror after I get cleaned up.

You like to quote Paul (I have no problem with that), what do you think about James?

Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Hi Steve,

I am not using logic nor assumptions.

But by your logic and assumptions this won't be an edifying discussion.

So, I will graciously bow out if you don't mind.

Have a good time,
Rick

Hi Rick,

I am really sorry if I have offended you. Everything I said, I tried to say in love, but sometimes the truth hurts. Pro 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

I think this is a serious subject and I believe you are mistaken. That is my belief, it may or not be a fact, the Lord be my Judge. I am not condemning you. My own mother (and siblings) does not believe as I do, although she does think we should keep one day. I don't want to fight you, I simply want to see all of God's perfect law restored.

Be blessed my brother in the Lord,
Steve

[heb13-13]

Hi Rick,

I am really sorry if I have offended you. Everything I said, I tried to say in love, but sometimes the truth hurts. Pro 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

I think this is a serious subject and I believe you are mistaken. That is my belief, it may or not be a fact, the Lord be my Judge. I am not condemning you. My own mother (and siblings) does not believe as I do, although she does think we should keep one day. I don't want to fight you, I simply want to see all of God's perfect law restored.

Be blessed my brother in the Lord,
Steve

Hey Steve,

I'm not offended but thanks for your concern. I just know when it's time to quit. I don't feel condemned in the slightest, I'm just going to pray for you.
Maybe see you on another thread.

Rick

[Timmy]

Howdy Pardnurz!

Now, ize iz just tellin youz this soze 'n ya' caint sayz i didunt warn ya. Ifn' e'er buddy jest abandoned this campsite right here, IT'S MINE for posterity. Whoopi ki oh yippie ki yay an yee-hawh.It's Rootin-tootin' Cowboy Tim and i will be ridin' inta this here acropolis like gangbusters ta' take on the whole kit and caboodle of yallz speck-U-layshunz.

Thah' middle name iz Cowboy, and don't chu' furget it.

My pardnurz call me Bullbuck fer' short n' sted a' Cowboy cuzn' i'm the only wrangler thay evr laid eyezon' that roundhoused a bull mer' than thrice. Six of one, half dozen of a nuther i kin' grab any bull the horns or the nads cuz you getz more than a bakerz dozen when Cowboy Tim takes that rag off the bush... n'i gotz a cold hart stare n' eyez a' steel that dern well petrifies any who dair dueln'. i'm faster n' lightnin' when it comes down to the draw and have two hipside ivory handled six shooterz. They aint fer show but to make trouble go. If'n the first six don't take ya' down the next six will.

So, meet unabashed me, the real Timmy without all them hipster regaliaz n' thangs.

i got so carnsarn blasted tired of not beeun me in that get-up. Here i givz you'nz the idee i warz some sorta' hipster college dropout techy wearin 'dem dar'horn-rim ocularz or them cat-eyed red spectacularz n' all when i aint nary nuthin like that A-tall. Don't git me wrong just cuz'n i wore all them extras aint meanin' i warz inta it, cuz i wearz a tiechel no mattar whatever else i putz on; but, dis mornin' after puttin' mah' yamaka over my fedora mounted on my ten-gallon, i sez tah' me, all this stuffz just gotta' go. i jest aint fer it nary a day more. E'en without my Yamaka, that fedora mounted atop my ten-gallon makes my head gear jest a teensy bit too heavy fer mah' neck, speshly wern it twarz rainin' buckets th'other day.

Now when i sez all this stuff's gotta go, don't get ta' thinkin i'm one-a them thar greezy tree huggerz or some politickin bigwig blowhard burning babies or gettin nakd for bohemian rhapsodies in some patrolled red-woodlund laden swatch a' ground in Kaliphornia er nuthin like that.

i just sez to me dat dem dar black swayd moccasins over my cowboy boots was just too much, as if'n dem' boots weren't tight enuf awreddy them thar moccasins made em a might bit too tight. They warz pinchin' my feet and it jest seemed like a cornflickted interst cuz cowpokes and injunz don't mix....and that green leather fringed satchel had me thinkin' all i needed warz a pair of cha cha heels, purple eye shadows, and bright red lip-gawloop. i never held no contankerous feelinz about those skinny jeans, but dem dar pink n' purple paisley spandex britches rilly chapped my ass an' were gonna' give me a potentiated case a' crotch rot anytime soon if ih twernt fer mah rawhide chaps keepn' em from rubbin these here lower extremities raw.

Sum a you unz prolly pondered thot i warz some kinda' x'spurt with sum edge-U-K-shun er' sumpin', but if it twernt fer da' lernins of dem galubusturz that put me up ta' this and the spell checkin' thingamajig on this here technolectual contrapolation, you unz 'ould nary be a thinkin' that i is a real new wurld 21st centurian man.

Well, i jest stripped it all off, but i prolly will git my editors ta hep, just'n soze you kin be understandin me good 'nuf; but now i feel libearatadoed like i aint hidin' nuthin no morez. Truth be told, it really seemed jest like i wern't thar A'tall with'n them thar horn rimmed respectacles n' that thar blazing florescent orange sweater over my flannel.

i hate the hoosecow. Ya'll mite nary rekon Timmy for a cowboy, but Rootin-Tootin Timmy had to come outa' the corral cuz them thar' confines warz gettin' jest a might bit too tight fer this cowpoke right heah. Just give me a home where the spaceships have a place to land under the big sky so i kin' deeply ponder unfettered by any notion of some sorta' pokey, e'en if'n it be in a corral that aint no brick room with I-ron bars. True ta' form, Cowboy Tim sed i gotz ta' jest sound the goose.

Anyway, mornin' fore this one, with a bear sign to dunk n' my cupa' ole' black joe Arbuckle, i warz contemplatin'. i got a hankerin' ta' do sumpin' differnt roun' dis camp site. See, i aint one'a dem who cares fer anyone to git all balled up beatin' the devil round'a stump cuz like ta' git to the point. i ain't down on doxology works cause it don't make me no nevermind. Truth be told, i don't nary care a continental. i aint no heavy handed primadogma deputy enforce'n but seems therez been some rustlers roamin' these here ranges and it's bout time someone clear tha' air or at least put a foot down. We gota' do sumpin bout them dang liberal communist religioners.i come prepared with the weapons of our warefare, which are not carnal but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds. If my Power In The Blood Exorcism Kit don't get em', my book on 1001+ ways to use the Name of Jesus will.

This be yur forewarnin' to git the heck outa' Dodge City while the git'nz good,..
...and If ya' ain't shakin' in yur boots jest yet, ya' ain't got the sense Sophia gave the domestic turkey or Pan gave a Panda bar.

i might be in fer one a those fights like Kilkenny cats but i taint the four-flusher round these here parts neither. i hearz all this fussin and spatz n' i thinks someone or three is jest plain full as a tick on them thar selfs.

Anywho, i'm bout game as a banty rooster and takers gainst Tim is a goner, and ifn' ya' can't hold a candle to this rootin tootin one (of many), best hobble yur lip. Let slide and you'll be corraled into a cocked hat cuz i'll smack ya' galley west. If ya' jest ain't got them kinda' needful senses ta' leave well nuff alone, yall can git chur chance to lighten' a shuck to Californ-I-A beforez i makes ya' be lookin' all mamby pamby. Ya' might be glad ja' shinned out when ja' did cuz'n soft solder won't gitcha' no ride on no river round heah'.

In this acropolis, there aint room fer less than more than one of us, but don't get caught in these rejunz past sundown, cause after that it aint nuthin but bullets and blood, an' that ain't nothin' nice. Besides these spurs that jingle, i have a few lil' ole tricks up my sleeve. If these thunderlips hain't scaret the fear ah G-D intah' ya awereddy , jest fer show, when Rootin' Tootin' Cowboy Tim comes ridin' in, first i will beat all available sinners with a cudgel then gallop along with my ivory-handle revolvers shooting whiskey jugs out of the hands of them thar'drunken Injuns.

You aint seen nuthin' til' ya' see Rootin' Tootin' Timmy come barrelin' out the gates. Ready yurselves fer more n' a rip roarin' rodeo...and expect it when ya' least expect it. Best bets fer them thar outlaws, an ifn that gotz chur name on it, might be high time tah hed fer tha hills befer Rootin Tootin Cowboy Timmy gallops back inta' town.

Sinseriously...
or not
is up to you
but them results aint.
You might done shot that mouth off one, two, mayun' a triple too many times, but i'm hankerin' ta' give the facts Simon pure. So it's awemost time tah shoot Luke, er give up the gun cuz this ain't gonna' be no stand-off.

Can thar be more n' one man standin' when the smoke clears?

You iz forewar-Ed so git fore armed,
cuz i'm comin' atcha' with both barrels blazin'.
Like i sez before, spect it when ya' least 'spec it.



Rootin' Tootin' Cowboy Tim

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hey there Trippin' Timmy Tames Toyce!

You write like a drunken hillbilly James Joyce! Transmogrified into cowboygirl by choice, of coise!

I'm mystified, smogrified, and soon to be raspinating thoroughly through the slaughter of words you so gracefully splayed upon our florum.

Till then, I remain

[Timmy]

Hey there Trippin' Timmy Tames Toyce!

You write like a drunken hillbilly James Joyce! Transmogrified into cowboygirl by choice, of coise!:

Hey mann, have you got it going on with the pentametrics?

Back about 300 y-eraz back, in the La-brary, a book fell off the shelf at my feet.)..and that book fallin' thing is something that has happened several times over the course of this lifetime BTW), but the book was "The White Goddess" by Robert Frost.

Anyway, i read it and of all the things in that book about the advent of magickal alphabets and Athena and Diana and so on and so forth, what really grabbed this attention were his explanations of "The Muse" in his own livlihood. (Thinking now, it might have been another book by Colin Wilson or the preface of that book that let on to the details, or possibly both? ...but anyway...

The archetypal images surrounding the muse became livid in this consciousness and one thing led to another and the next thing i know, i was published...without even bothering to submit the work. It's like it all happened just because of entertaining the icon and letting it play in this imagination.

Things eventually, about three months following this, got really strange and it scared the wits out of alot of folks who spent any time with Timmy...so it was decided to leave off with it, but the archetype played on like a record skipping all the way through from beginning to end, from rose red to Hekatean dreamscapes onto white rose and back again. Timmy couldn't get the dreams to stop, though he did come to note they followed the cycles of the moon.

Why is that being said on this thread? My memory and imagine became a law onto themselves and conscious attention was drawn to it like a moth to the flame.

i think that's the way love goes.

I'm mystified, smogrified, and soon to be raspinating thoroughly through the slaughter of words you so gracefully splayed upon our florum.

Till then, I remain

Would you be so merciful, oh Big Kahuna, so as to allow me this one, if not many ideosyncracies?

You probably wanna' know how came back the control of conscious faculties again again?

You almost said the word above.
Not mystified, but
TRANSMOGRIFICATION.

i walked away but hardly unscathed and learned a lesson most end up in some shrinks office on a couch talking about their past is if that will help them with praxi in Liber FFF = further foreward faster.




So where is everybody anyway?

i'm so bored i might go down to the kitchen and just for kix, turn up the heat and clamp my face in my George Foreman Grill.
(It's seems to be quite an effortless way to burn off some baby fat.)


Goodnight maybe...
or not,


Timmy

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hey mann, have you got it going on with the pentametrics?

Back about 300 y-eraz back, in the La-brary, a book fell off the shelf at my feet.)..and that book fallin' thing is something that has happened several times over the course of this lifetime BTW), but the book was "The White Goddess" by Robert Frost.

Anyway, i read it and of all the things in that book about the advent of magickal alphabets and Athena and Diana and so on and so forth, what really grabbed this attention were his explanations of "The Muse" in his own livlihood. (Thinking now, it might have been another book by Colin Wilson or the preface of that book that let on to the details, or possibly both? ...but anyway...

The archetypal images surrounding the muse became livid in this consciousness and one thing led to another and the next thing i know, i was published...without even bothering to submit the work. It's like it all happened just because of entertaining the icon and letting it play in this imagination.

Things eventually, about three months following this, got really strange and it scared the wits out of alot of folks who spent any time with Timmy...so it was decided to leave off with it, but the archetype played on like a record skipping all the way through from beginning to end, from rose red to Hekatean dreamscapes onto white rose and back again. Timmy couldn't get the dreams to stop, though he did come to note they followed the cycles of the moon.

Why is that being said on this thread? My memory and imagine became a law onto themselves and conscious attention was drawn to it like a moth to the flame.

i think that's the way love goes.

Be like water. Go with the flow of love.

Trying to "control" aspects of self that are emerging is like trying to stop Ol' Faithul when it wants to spew. Let it out! (In a "controlled fashion" if you can ... 'nuther oxymoron, crap!).

Would you be so merciful, oh Big Kahuna, so as to allow me this one, if not many ideosyncracies?

Dude, you are at home here. You can speak freely and freak squealy all you like! Idiosyncrasies make us what we are (by definition, quite literally!).

You probably wanna' know how came back the control of conscious faculties again again?

You almost said the word above.
Not mystified, but
TRANSMOGRIFICATION.

i walked away but hardly unscathed and learned a lesson most end up in some shrinks office on a couch talking about their past is if that will help them with praxi in Liber FFF = further foreward faster.

Yes. I understand that faith in Christ brought you back. And I can't say a word against that!

So where is everybody anyway?

Good question. I should send out a mass email to all our registered users and tell them that this is their one and only chance to talk with a cross-dressing Christian cowboy. The stats would go through the roof!

i'm so bored i might go down to the kitchen and just for kix, turn up the heat and clamp my face in my George Foreman Grill.
(It's seems to be quite an effortless way to burn off some baby fat.)


Goodnight maybe...
or not,


Timmy

Hummm ... if I have to stay up all night to keep your face off Foreman's grill, I might as well apologize to your face now!

Talk later ... or tomorrow.

Richard

[Timmy]

The avitar of your cross-dressing christian cowboy, preserved for the time being, for posterity, is now my profile pic.

Thank you very much.

Goodnight.


Timmy

p.s. If Richard doesn't save this beautiful babyface then who will?

[Richard Amiel McGough]

The avitar of your cross-dressing christian cowboy, preserved for the time being, for posterity, is now my profile pic.

Thank you very much.

Goodnight.


Timmy

p.s. If Richard doesn't save this beautiful babyface then who will?

What do you mean I didn't save it? I knew it's longevity was pretty tenuous so for posterity's sake I saved it in this post of the other thread when I first saw it!

Your beautiful babyface (and all the rest) is now stored on the Bible Wheel server for as long as this site will last. And come to think of it, it's probably already been archived for eternity on Google. No worries pretty boy ... your place in history is assured!

PS: Is that really you? Was it a special occastion, or just another day at work?

[Timmy]

What do you mean I didn't save it? I knew it's longevity was pretty tenuous so for posterity's sake I saved it in this post of the other thread when I first saw it!

i fergot. Yup, tenuous indeed...one of my weaker moments.

Your beautiful babyface (and all the rest) is now stored on the Bible Wheel server for as long as this site will last. And come to think of it, it's probably already been archived for eternity on Google. No worries pretty boy ... your place in history is assured!

PS: Is that really you? Was it a special occastion, or just another day at work?

Only yur heapin' lovin' kettle full of hosspittailiaity could be so kind.
Now i can thank you for our fondest memories.
oh, it's me awrighty; that beautiful bod warz jest a loaner.
i aint gonna' e'en ansir that last questyun.
Now aftur a hard dayz night i kin go back to my stall,bed down in thah hay and citch a wink er two ah shuteye knowing if i evr be forgottin, i'm not jest a lejund in my own mind.
sunrise is headin ore the hillz soon enuf.

G'daynight,

Dr. Rootin' Tootin' Cowbouygurl Timmy (aka: Old Gregg)