Man of Lawlessness?

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Greetings, I am new here and would like to post a view on the "man of lawlessness." What exactly is lawlessness? Are we talking from a Hellenistic point of view or from a Hebraic and Scriptural point of view?

Welcome to our forum,



What exactly do you mean by a "Helenistic" vs. "Hebraic" point of view in the Bible?

And if there is something wrong with Greek why was the NT was written in Greek?

The Hellenistic point of view will evolve whereas the Scriptural view remains constant.

Where did you get that idea? Both Greek and Hebrew are subject to interpretation, and the interpretations of the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, has been evolving for 2000 years. What makes you think that Hebrew is more stable than Greek?

[Brother Les]

[QUOTE]

Greetings, I am new here and would like to post a view on the "man of lawlessness." What exactly is lawlessness? Are we talking from a Hellenistic point of view or from a Hebraic and Scriptural point of view? The Hellenistic point of view will evolve whereas the Scriptural view remains constant. The Hebraic or Scriptural word for "lawlessness," is Torahlessness. The Torah does not mean 'law,' it means teaching and instruction. The Torah of the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is as relevant today as it was in the beginning. Yahshua, (Jesus) IS the Living Torah and He taught Torah and lived it out in His life and taught His disciples to do the same. If He went against the Torah in any way, then He would cease to be the Messiah.

Yes, Jesus is the Living Torah and we are under the Torah of Yahshua, we are not under the Torah of Moses. The Covenantal Promises given to Abraham and His Seed, not seeds as in many, but Seed as in One. That One being Yahshua Messiah. The English translations of the Bible have been translated into the western literal physical mindset of the Greeks and have forsaken the audience relevance of whom The Book was written to and the mind set of those Peoples. The Book is to and for the Eastern Oriental Hebreic Peoples and should be read and understood in their mindset. You give a good run down on 'lawlessness', but we are looking at the specific person of Thess.2:2, when Christian of Thess. were being told of the 'Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ'.This is 'the Coming' in Judgement of the Mosaic Torah/ Marriage Contract to usher in the Messiahnic Marriage Contract. As long as The Temple stood, the Cultis behind it stood and when that Temple of The Death Fell, the Perfect did come.

Beloved, Yahshua called us to follow Him and His commandments, which are EXACTLY the same as His Father's commandments.

Love God and love your neighbor.

Yahshua told us in Matthew 5:17-19 that He did not come to abolish the Torah and Prophets but to fulfill them. Fulfill does NOT mean to do away with, but to give FULL meaning to them. Yahshua even went deeper as to their meaning.

13Ye (First Century Thess) are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

14Ye (First Century Thess.)are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

We see that the Jot and Tittles Do pass, when all be Fulfilled. The Jot and Tittle encompass The Mosaic Torah AND the Prophets. The Mosaic Torah was always to have an end coming, as Exodus says God remembered:
Exodus 2:
24And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

25And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.

This is Before the Mosaic Betrothal of Sinai. This was Before the Mosic Marriage at Gilgal of God remembering The Covenant with The Fathers

Using the Hebreic mindset and language, you should know very well of what the words of Heaven and Earth mean. This is The Peoples of The Land (vs the peoples of the sea), The Governmets and Peoples and the 'World' of the OC Temple Cultis. This 'Decreation' fully came about when The Temple of that old world fell and not one stone was on another.

So as believers in the Messiah Yahshua, we should obey His Word and do as He did. Yahshua kept the Shabbat, the moedim, (Festivals), the New Moons and taught Torah. Paul did as well. So why are not most Christians doing so? To be Torahless means to be without Torah or to be against it or to put another teaching in place of our Father's teaching which all are forbidden to do. We are not to add to YHWH's Teaching nor are we to subtract from it. Deuteronomy 4

Yahshua Messiah was Born under The Law of Moses and He Died Under The Law of Moses, so He fully had to keep all of The Law of Moses. As also with the Apostle Paul, being born a Jew and a Hebrew, he fully had to keep every Jot and Tittle as long as 'Heaven and Earth' stood. The Apostle Paul had Timothy (?) circumcised because he had a Jewish mother, but He did not allow Titus to be circucised because Titus was Never under The Law (Torah) of Moses and that Law, which The Fathers (Those Hebrews before Paul)of could Never keep was at the time Waxing old and ready to vanish away. The 'Greeks/Gentiles/ Ephrain' were never under The Torah of Moses or they had be Divorced from the Torah of Moses and would be a violation of The Marriage Laws to come back under the old Covenant, there by putting Sin at YHWHs feet, which He would never do or allow

.So how is this man of Torahlessness revealed? Could it be possible that when we teach the whole council of Elohim many will fall away because they despise truth and there will be one who will lead? Isaiah 46:10 tells us that Elohim has declared from the beginning, the end. I believe if we look back to Genesis and read in the Hebrew what is there, much will be revealed.

Declaring the begining and The End? The Messiahnic Marriage Covenant has NO END.... Thess.2:2 is in the First Century context which must be understood as the First Century Man of Sin.

Our Father shows us in His holy set apart times what He is going to do. The Shabbats, New Moons, and Festivals are all dress rehearsals, (shadows) for things TO come.

Dress Rehersals, Holy Convocations for The Real. Every Feast of The Lord as the Type has a corrisponding Christ Event of The Real. All 'Christian Sects' agree of the passing of the first four Feasts of The Lord in the First Century. The Last three also happened as in Trumpets, Atonement, and Tabernacals. The 'Types' and 'Anti-types' corrisponds to the T of when the 'Dress Rehersals that were set up when Moses told Pharoah to let YHWHs People go. Passover/The Cross, Feast of unLeaven/Passion Week (one week), Feast of FirstFruit/Yahshuas Resurrection,Feast of Week/Pentecost. All of the last three Feasts of The Lord happened during the Jewish War 66-70 AD.
These feasts are clustered according to the rainy season in Israel. Passover, the Feast of Unleavened bread, First fruits, and Pentecost come under a period known as the latter rain. The latter rain brings forth the beginning of the harvest, it comes in the Spring. Then you have a four month or 120 day dry season, which I believe is the building of the church between Pentecost and A.D. 70. Which is also an analogy to Noah building the arc. That also was the end of an age. Then we have the former rain that occurs during the end time Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, and Tabernacles. Hopefully, we will see that these feast represent the fall of Jerusalem, the end of Old Covenant Israel and the establishment of the New Heavens and Earth where God's tabernacle is with men. Hosea explains to us that the latter rain comes first, then the former rain.

Hosea 6:3 (NKJV) Let us know, Let us pursue the knowledge of the LORD. His going forth is established as the morning; He will come to us like the rain, Like the latter and former rain to the earth.

Please don't keep the Torah because you have to but because you love the One who gave it in the first place. If you keep the Torah because you have to, then you are no longer under grace, but if you keep it because of your relationship with the Master and you truly love Him and His people, then you are truly under grace.

So now are there examples in Scripture of those who despised the teachings of Elohim and set themselves up in place of Elohim?

Thanks for your consideration.

If you keeep any part of the Mosaic Torah, you are not under Faith, but under a cultis of works. Works of the carnal flesh only brings The Death.
Jer.6: 17Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.

18Therefore hear, ye nations, and know, O congregation, what is among them.

19Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.

20To what purpose cometh there to me incense from Sheba, and the sweet cane from a far country? your burnt offerings are not acceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet unto me.

21Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will lay stumblingblocks before this people, and the fathers and the sons together shall fall upon them; the neighbour and his friend shall perish.

22Thus saith the LORD, Behold, a people cometh from the north country, and a great nation shall be raised from the sides of the earth.

23They shall lay hold on bow and spear; they are cruel, and have no mercy; their voice roareth like the sea; and they ride upon horses, set in array as men for war against thee, O daughter of Zion.


Romans 11: 5Even so then at this present time (First century)also there is a remnant according to the election of grace (Rement of Jews and Gentiles).

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest ( Israel of Darkness and Barbarians)were blinded.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

Greetings, I am new here and would like to post a view on the "man of lawlessness." What exactly is lawlessness? Are we talking from a Hellenistic point of view or from a Hebraic and Scriptural point of view? The Hellenistic point of view will evolve whereas the Scriptural view remains constant. The Hebraic or Scriptural word for "lawlessness," is Torahlessness. The Torah does not mean 'law,' it means teaching and instruction. The Torah of the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is as relevant today as it was in the beginning. Yahshua, (Jesus) IS the Living Torah and He taught Torah and lived it out in His life and taught His disciples to do the same. If He went against the Torah in any way, then He would cease to be the Messiah.

Beloved, Yahshua called us to follow Him and His commandments, which are EXACTLY the same as His Father's commandments. Yahshua told us in Matthew 5:17-19 that He did not come to abolish the Torah and Prophets but to fulfill them. Fulfill does NOT mean to do away with, but to give FULL meaning to them. Yahshua even went deeper as to their meaning.

So as believers in the Messiah Yahshua, we should obey His Word and do as He did. Yahshua kept the Shabbat, the moedim, (Festivals), the New Moons and taught Torah. Paul did as well. So why are not most Christians doing so? To be Torahless means to be without Torah or to be against it or to put another teaching in place of our Father's teaching which all are forbidden to do. We are not to add to YHWH's Teaching nor are we to subtract from it. Deuteronomy 4

So how is this man of Torahlessness revealed? Could it be possible that when we teach the whole council of Elohim many will fall away because they despise truth and there will be one who will lead? Isaiah 46:10 tells us that Elohim has declared from the beginning, the end. I believe if we look back to Genesis and read in the Hebrew what is there, much will be revealed. Our Father shows us in His holy set apart times what He is going to do. The Shabbats, New Moons, and Festivals are all dress rehearsals, (shadows) for things TO come. Please don't keep the Torah because you have to but because you love the One who gave it in the first place. If you keep the Torah because you have to, then you are no longer under grace, but if you keep it because of your relationship with the Master and you truly love Him and His people, then you are truly under grace.

So now are there examples in Scripture of those who despised the teachings of Elohim and set themselves up in place of Elohim?

Thanks for your consideration.

Greetings and welcome.

I see things a little differently and offer these thoughts for you consideration.

We're agreed that the lawfulness of the Spirit of God as He guided Abraham - Jacob is in effect. They are representative of "everyman" under Adam. Christians re-born of the Spirit of the Creator are of the spiritual likeness and 'seed of Abraham' and 'seed of Israel". They were however Syrians before the national covenant delivered by Moses.

This concept of the Patriarchs spriritual experiences being an example and Law for individuals is declared in Ps 105 and repeated / explained by Paul in Romans 9. They carried the covenant of the seed of God and the woman as did Noah. It was called "my covenant" to Noah and Abraham.

But when Jesus declared that he had not come to destroy the law but to fulfill, he was also referring to the fulfilling of the latter end of the coditional mosaic covenant law that Moses prophesied would end when the New Prophet {Messiah} would come. And Jesus brought the fulfilling of the prophesies of blessing to the 'latter son' of the covenant of unconditional individual grace/ indwelling of the Spirit to peoples of all languages, nations, tongues, which the 3 patriarchs and others had experienced.

Thus, the foundational principles, judgments and LAWS of blessings in life were being "Revealed" with the Revelation of Christ.

You mentioned

The Torah does not mean 'law,' it means teaching and instruction.

And I believe part of the 'teaching and instruction' of the temporal mosaic covenant would have been a 'NEGATIVE' and counter teaching of the positive ways of life via faith. John states that the law came by Moses, But (A CONTRAST) Grace and Truth by Christ Jesus.

In your example of the observation of new moons and sabbaths, recall that Paul all but chided some of the Colossians for their contined participation in them.

The topic of Matt 5 has been talked over a few times. Here is one discussion.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

And a Rabbi from the quote you posted said that Caesar became a Proselyte? Almost funny, but not realistic.

There was another souirce (Tacticus??) who had recorded that his second wife was a Jewish Prosylyte and thus held influence with Nero.

[Brother Les]

Originally Posted by Brother Les
And a Rabbi from the quote you posted said that Caesar became a Proselyte? Almost funny, but not realistic.

There was another souirce (Tacticus??) who had recorded that his second wife was a Jewish Prosylyte and thus held influence with Nero.

Is this the wife that he kicked to death? Did the 'Rabbis' know that Nero had one of his Boyfriends.... surgically turned into a girl for his pleasure.

[Shalom]

Greetings RAM,


QUOTE=RAM;40295]Welcome to our forum,
:welcome

What exactly do you mean by a "Helenistic" vs. "Hebraic" point of view in the Bible?


Hellenistic is linear thinking and the there is no real constant because their 'elohim were always changing to fit their lifestyle and so it is with Hellenistic. It also is the inductive and deductive reasoning which lead to it is either this way or that way but not both. Inductive and deductive reasoning is not bad in and of itself, but it eliminates any other view.

Hebraic thinking is 'block logic' which incorporates 4 levels of teaching which are the 'pashat,' the actual literal and most important meaning, then there is the 'remez,' which is a hint at another meaning, then there is the 'drash,' which goes to a deeper meaning, and finally there is the 'sod,' which is the hidden or the mystery meaning. It also thinks cyclical versus linear.




And if there is something wrong with Greek why was the NT was written in Greek?


I don't believe that the original documents were written in Greek, in fact there is much more proof now that show it was written in Hebrew or Aramaic and then translated into Greek. Here is a few facts, the writers of the newer writings were all Hebrew, yes even Luke. The book of Matthew was written in Hebrew to the Hebrews and it has the Hebraic idioms which Greek does not know how to translate it. Luke was written in Eastern Aramaic at the least because the whole book of Luke is poetic and Greek and Western Aramaic does not have that. Even Paul makes a statement that should verify why they would have written in Hebrew because the Besorah (Good News) was to the Jew FIRST then to the Greek.

Also the Hebrew language is known as the Kadosh (holy) tongue. Why would those of Jewish heritage write in Greek first when most of their audience was Jewish? Why would they differ the language when the rest of the Scriptures was written in Hebrew and for the book of Daniel, Aramaic?

One thing I give credit to the Greek language is that they took and made the Septuagint and made as best a translation of the Torah, Prophets, and Writings and it was they who preserved it from the polluted Masoretic texts of which there are I believe over a 1000 variations. The Dead Sea Scrolls are showing that the Septuagint kept the original. The Jewish people have tried very hard to hide the Messiah and this is just as wrong as what the Christians have done to the Messiah as well by hiding Him to be a transgressor of Torah or at least a teacher who tells His disciples that they don't have to obey the Torah teachings of the Father.


Where did you get that idea? Both Greek and Hebrew are subject to interpretation, and the interpretations of the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, has been evolving for 2000 years. What makes you think that Hebrew is more stable than Greek?[/QUOTE]


Here I disagree with you. Hebrew is a concrete language and it has 4 levels of understanding and when any of us interpret it, it MUST align up with the Torah of Elohim, for if it does not then it must become discarded. Paul was a teacher of the Torah and he taught the Truth, but his writings are hard and unfortunately many have twisted his words to mean something other than what they are.

The book of Acts is a PERSONAL letter to Theopholis who happened to be the high priest from 37-42CE. Some of the letters of Paul are answers to questions we have NO idea what was asked and yet many make doctrines out of those teachings without looking back at the Torah for guidance.

We would do well to interpret the Newer writings with the Torah and Prophets just as the Bereans did. If you look closely at the Scriptures you will find that from beginning to end it is all about the Temple service and how we conduct ourselves in His House as His children. The book of B'reshit (Genesis) begins with His House and the book of Hitgalut (Revelation) ends with the seals, the trumpets, the censors, the menorah, the Holy City and His House. We would do well to learn the Temple service and how we as His children are to conduct ourselves in His Presence.

[Brother Les]

Shalom
Also the Hebrew language is known as the Kadosh (holy) tongue. Why would those of Jewish heritage write in Greek first when most of their audience was Jewish? Why would they differ the language when the rest of the Scriptures was written in Hebrew and for the book of Daniel, Aramaic?

The target audience was The House of Judah and then the House of Israel. The House of Israel was sifted to the Nations and had become as Gentiles. This is who the Apsotle Paul was to go to..... Ephraim... not Judah. Peter was to go to Judah. Epharaims primary language at this time was the 'universal' language of Greek.

Here I disagree with you. Hebrew is a concrete language and it has 4 levels of understanding and when any of us interpret it, it MUST align up with the Torah of Elohim, for if it does not then it must become discarded. Paul was a teacher of the Torah and he taught the Truth, but his writings are hard and unfortunately many have twisted his words to mean something other than what they are.

Paul taught full Torah to Jews with the understanding that the Mosaic part was coming to an end in the generation of his preaching. Gentiles were not and did not need to come under the Mosaic portion of Torah and when the Judeizers tried to force the Temple cultis portion of Torah on The Nations, he rebuked the Judeizers as preaching a False Gosple.

The book of Acts is a PERSONAL letter to Theopholis who happened to be the high priest from 37-42CE. Some of the letters of Paul are answers to questions we have NO idea what was asked and yet many make doctrines out of those teachings without looking back at the Torah for guidance.

Reading the Letters of Paul does seem as if we are listening to only one half of a phone conversation. To understand more of what is going on in 'The Letters', it helps to refer to the book of Acts to see what was going on when Paul arrived and while he was there.

We would do well to interpret the Newer writings with the Torah and Prophets just as the Bereans did. If you look closely at the Scriptures you will find that from beginning to end it is all about the Temple service and how we conduct ourselves in His House as His children. The book of B'reshit (Genesis) begins with His House and the book of Hitgalut (Revelation) ends with the seals, the trumpets, the censors, the menorah, the Holy City and His House. We would do well to learn the Temple service and how we as His children are to conduct ourselves in His Presence.

Genesis is about Covenant Creation not physical creation or about 'Temple' Service. Revelation is also about the Covenant de-Creation unto The New Creation. This has happened and we are currently living in the New Jerusalem.

Blessings

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Greetings RAM,

What exactly do you mean by a "Helenistic" vs. "Hebraic" point of view in the Bible?

Hellenistic is linear thinking and the there is no real constant because their 'elohim were always changing to fit their lifestyle and so it is with Hellenistic. It also is the inductive and deductive reasoning which lead to it is either this way or that way but not both. Inductive and deductive reasoning is not bad in and of itself, but it eliminates any other view.

Hebraic thinking is 'block logic' which incorporates 4 levels of teaching which are the 'pashat,' the actual literal and most important meaning, then there is the 'remez,' which is a hint at another meaning, then there is the 'drash,' which goes to a deeper meaning, and finally there is the 'sod,' which is the hidden or the mystery meaning. It also thinks cyclical versus linear.

Hey there Shalom,

Thanks for clarifying what you meant. I agree that there is a difference between Hellenistic and Hebraic thought. But I do not agree that one is better than the other, or that one is more biblical than the other. Both are found in the Bible so both are, by definition, biblical. This is exemplified very well by Paul in this passage:

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

This exemplifies the Jewish (Hebrew) way of thinking expressed by the Hebrew word "yada" (to know) which relates to yad (hand) - it is a very tangible "hands on" kind of knowledge whereas the Greek word "eido" describes knowledge in a visual (abstract) way. Hence, the Jews want something tangible (sign) and the Greeks want something abstractly knowable (wisdom). These two ways of "knowing" correspond to the two hemispheres of the brain. The Left is linear, logical, analytical (Greek) whereas the Right is holistic and non-linear.

I see nothing in the Bible that speaks against one or the other way of knowing, or that suggests one should be preferred over the other.

And if there is something wrong with Greek why was the NT was written in Greek?

I don't believe that the original documents were written in Greek, in fact there is much more proof now that show it was written in Hebrew or Aramaic and then translated into Greek. Here is a few facts, the writers of the newer writings were all Hebrew, yes even Luke. The book of Matthew was written in Hebrew to the Hebrews and it has the Hebraic idioms which Greek does not know how to translate it. Luke was written in Eastern Aramaic at the least because the whole book of Luke is poetic and Greek and Western Aramaic does not have that. Even Paul makes a statement that should verify why they would have written in Hebrew because the Besorah (Good News) was to the Jew FIRST then to the Greek.

I agree that there is evidence for Matthew having been originally written in Hebrew (or Aramaic) but there is no evidence of such for most of the books of the NT. Luke wrote polished Greek. Please cite the evidence that it was a translation from Hebrew (or Aramaic). And there is no evidence whatsoever that Paul wrote in Hebrew.

There is a fundamental problem with your thesis. Why would God inspire the entire NT in Hebrew and then not preserve a word of it? If God really gave the Bible, then it is clear that he preserved it in Greek, and the evidence strongly points most of it being originally written in Greek. This also fits with the whole pattern of the Bible, because the NT is for all nations and so was written in the language of the nations. It also fits very well with the pattern of the human brain (created by God) which has two hemispheres with radically different modes of knowing: Left (Greek) and Right (Hebrew).

Also the Hebrew language is known as the Kadosh (holy) tongue. Why would those of Jewish heritage write in Greek first when most of their audience was Jewish? Why would they differ the language when the rest of the Scriptures was written in Hebrew and for the book of Daniel, Aramaic?

There are very good reasons to write in Greek. First, God had good reasons to inspire the NT in Greek since his plan was to have the Gospel go to the nations. Second, the Jews were Hellenized and were commonly speaking Greek, and had already translated the OT into the Greek LXX which is often quoted in the NT. I see no support for the idea that the entire NT was originally composed in Hebrew or Aramaic. And again, if God did do that, then we are left with a great mystery about why he failed to preserve any of the original Hebrew text. He could have given us a Hebrew NT if that were his desire. The fact that he did not is a very strong argument against your thesis.

One thing I give credit to the Greek language is that they took and made the Septuagint and made as best a translation of the Torah, Prophets, and Writings and it was they who preserved it from the polluted Masoretic texts of which there are I believe over a 1000 variations. The Dead Sea Scrolls are showing that the Septuagint kept the original. The Jewish people have tried very hard to hide the Messiah and this is just as wrong as what the Christians have done to the Messiah as well by hiding Him to be a transgressor of Torah or at least a teacher who tells His disciples that they don't have to obey the Torah teachings of the Father.

Your arguments are too simplistic. Yes, there is a lot of agreement between the DSS and the LXX, but it is no where near perfect, and there are many bad translations in the LXX.

Where did you get that idea? Both Greek and Hebrew are subject to interpretation, and the interpretations of the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, has been evolving for 2000 years. What makes you think that Hebrew is more stable than Greek?

Here I disagree with you. Hebrew is a concrete language and it has 4 levels of understanding and when any of us interpret it, it MUST align up with the Torah of Elohim, for if it does not then it must become discarded. Paul was a teacher of the Torah and he taught the Truth, but his writings are hard and unfortunately many have twisted his words to mean something other than what they are.

Paul most definitely was NOT a "teacher of Torah." He told people NOT to get circumcised. He spoke about the Torah leading to death, not life. He contrasted the Torah with Faith. He said that Christians were "free from the Torah" and not subject to the "curse of the Torah."

And the idea of things "lining up" with the Torah is a very linear "Greek" way of thinking. Your use of "logic" is "Greek." I do not think your thoughts on this matter are logically coherent. You have begun with a false premise.

The book of Acts is a PERSONAL letter to Theopholis who happened to be the high priest from 37-42CE. Some of the letters of Paul are answers to questions we have NO idea what was asked and yet many make doctrines out of those teachings without looking back at the Torah for guidance.

We would do well to interpret the Newer writings with the Torah and Prophets just as the Bereans did. If you look closely at the Scriptures you will find that from beginning to end it is all about the Temple service and how we conduct ourselves in His House as His children. The book of B'reshit (Genesis) begins with His House and the book of Hitgalut (Revelation) ends with the seals, the trumpets, the censors, the menorah, the Holy City and His House. We would do well to learn the Temple service and how we as His children are to conduct ourselves in His Presence.

I agree that there is much in the NT that speaks of things we no do not know. But that's even more true for the OT. The Jews don't even know the details of how the Menorah was made! They debate it because they have lost that knowledge. There is nothing about the OT that is more "certain" than the NT. Both are filled with unanswerable questions.

The temple was a mere type of Christ. It looks like you have mistaken the shadow for the substance.

Great chatting!

Richard

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hey there Shalom,

What do you think of this verse?

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the Torah.

[Timmy]

The Torah of Yeshua is what he also obeyed, all according to Yahweh's Torah.
No talmidim is greater than their Rabba.
None of you really bvelieve you are better than Yeshua Ha'Melki do you?
What do you think it means to follow Yeshua Ha'Rebbe if not to follow Him in deed and word?
He said to keep His commandmentS and His commandmentS he kept are my Father's commandmentS.

It is only the Levitical system of ordinances that has been transformed in the sense of a metathesis, and not the abolishment thereof in the least.




Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping of the requirements-prescribed by God.
I Cor. 7.19
(You will find a verse quite similar in Gal 5 BTW, and a whole lot of disonnance against God to obey His Torah has resulted from continuing to adhere to this convoluted Lutheran thinking you attempt to prove valid. Either you are following Martin or Yeshua. Which one will it be?)

MAN SHALL not SURVIVE by bread only, but BY EVERY WORD OF GOD!


Timmy