Slavery

[Rose]

The sad truth is that the Bible does support slavery, and even Jesus never spoke out against it...

[jce]

The sad truth is that the Bible does support slavery, and even Jesus never spoke out against it...

Rose, are you implying that Jesus does not quite meet your standards? There are probably more slaves in the world today than at anytime in history.

Witness: Proverbs 22:7 (KJV) "The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender".

Merry Xmas Rose.

John

[Rose]

Rose, are you implying that Jesus does not quite meet your standards? There are probably more slaves in the world today than at anytime in history.

Witness: Proverbs 22:7 (KJV) "The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender".

Merry Xmas Rose.

John

Hi John

Well, it seems pretty obvious that my standards are higher, since I believe in treating my fellow man like I want to be treated and I definitely don't want to be a slave. Jesus preached the "Golden Rule", yet did not follow through with it in the area of slavery.

I'm not sure what having more slaves today in the world has to do with Jesus not condemning slavery?

All the best, and Merry Christmas to you also,
Rose

[jce]

Hi John

Well, it seems pretty obvious that my standards are higher, since I believe in treating my fellow man like I want to be treated and I definitely don't want to be a slave. Jesus preached the "Golden Rule", yet did not follow through with it in the area of slavery.

I'm not sure what having more slaves today in the world has to do with Jesus not condemning slavery?

All the best, and Merry Christmas to you also,
Rose

Wonderful Rose. Perhaps you will become a creative deity in your next life ruling in your own perfection over all.

John

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Rose, are you implying that Jesus does not quite meet your standards? There are probably more slaves in the world today than at anytime in history.

Witness: Proverbs 22:7 (KJV) "The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender".

Merry Xmas Rose.

John

Good morning John,

I'm glad you jumped in on this question. I think it touches the heart of the Christian claim relating to God as the foundation of morality. Most Christians know that their moral standards are higher than many of those displayed in the Bible. When we say that the Bible displays very high moral standards, as when Jesus taught us to love God and others, or when he taught altruism (lay down your life) we all use our moral judgment and declare "those are good moral values." How would we know that if we were moral monsters? We wouldn't! When we bear witness to the good morals in the Bible, it is because we are using our own innate moral sense. The same is true when we declare something bad, such as slavery. I'm pretty sure a Bible written today would not contain any rules about how to buy and sell slaves, let alone how we must let a female slave go for free if we don't like her after we've had sex with her!

I can see no way for Christians to justify this problem. But I would be very interested to review any attempt.

All the best,

Richard

PS: Will you be attending a Roman Catholic mass for the birth of Christ? (I noticed you Xed out Christ in Xmas, so I thought I'd note the true meaning of that word - Christ's Mass.)

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Wonderful Rose. Perhaps you will become a creative deity in your next life ruling in your own perfection over all.

John

That's an odd response John. Has Rose ever suggested that she is perfect? Of course not! She's not trying to replace the Christian God, she is merely stating plain and obvious facts concerning the nature of that God.

[jce]

Good morning John,

I'm glad you jumped in on this question. I think it touches the heart of the Christian claim relating to God as the foundation of morality. Most Christians know that their moral standards are higher than many of those displayed in the Bible. When we say that the Bible displays very high moral standards, as when Jesus taught us to love God and others, or when he taught altruism (lay down your life) we all use our moral judgment and declare "those are good moral values." How would we know that if we were moral monsters? We wouldn't! When we bear witness to the good morals in the Bible, it is because we are using our own innate moral sense. The same is true when we declare something bad, such as slavery. I'm pretty sure a Bible written today would not contain any rules about how to buy and sell slaves, let alone how we must let a female slave go for free if we don't like her after we've had sex with her!

I can see no way for Christians to justify this problem. But I would be very interested to review any attempt.

All the best,

Richard

I'm actually sorry that I jumped in because my post was unkind to Rose. I will apologize to her for my rude expressions.

Since I opened my mind on the topic, I should finish by addressing Rose's question regarding Proverbs 22:7.

Whatever the problems associated with slavery on this planet, they are the result of man's efforts to rule and a manifestation of his morality. Is God to blame? If so, what was the purpose of Jubilee? Was it a suggestion or a commandment? God knows the heart of mankind and He foresaw one of its evils, greed.

The modern slave is evidence of that greed being played out in the financial arena. It may not appear as brutal as what slaves endured in the Colosseum, but it's just as real.

PS: Will you be attending a Roman Catholic mass for the birth of Christ? (I noticed you Xed out Christ in Xmas, so I thought I'd note the true meaning of that word - Christ's Mass.)

Thank-you Richard for pointing that out, so... no I won't since that is now a historical event not to be repeated. But you know what many say... When in Rome...


Richard, may God Bless You and Rose and I really do wish you both, A Wonderful Christmas Season!!!!

John

[jce]

Rose,

I would like to publicly apologize for my rude remarks to you on the slavery topic. You are a kind person and I value your opinion.

Sincerely,

John

[heb13-13]

Everyone is a slave to something or someone.

The world abounds with "Masters" and "servants", Employers and employees.

Some work for wages and some do not. Obviously, any kind of involuntary servitude is slavery.

Then there is voluntary servitude. Christians don't work for wages and they are bought with a price.
They are slaves to a Master and are very happy slaves.

Involuntary slavery:
Military conscription
Child labor
Any kind of forced labor

There are many, many forms of slavery the worst slavery of which is to sin. And this is what Jesus concentrated on. He did not come to address all the outward problems of the world. He came to address it's core problem, which is slavery to sin.

He did not come to save whales, trees, babies, good air, good water, animals made for fur coats, etc, etc. Jesus kept His eye on the prize His vision on His Father's calling. He did not allow Himself to get distracted with all of man's outward plights and inequalities. He came to deliver men from their inward plight.

Jesus came to set men free from the worst bondage imaginable and with the worst consequences.

John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

John 8:35
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.


John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Grace and peace to all,
Rick

[Rose]

Wonderful Rose. Perhaps you will become a creative deity in your next life ruling in your own perfection over all.

John

Dear John, since I neither claim to be the son of god, nor perfect which Jesus espoused, I need not worry about ruling in perfection On the other hand Jesus did claim those things and taught the "Golden Rule", which he failed to implement in the area of slavery, which by the way his fathers book (Old Testament) promoted.

Hoping you have a wonderful Christmas,
Rose