We are All One

[Timmy]

WHETHER CALLED UPON
OR NOT
GOD WILL BE PRESENT.

[heb13-13]

I'm taking this from two things...my own experience in having to learn scripture from the physical creation and then find the concept in the written logos . It wasn't until much later that I realized that this appears to be the intention from the beginning as stated in Romans 1:18-21.

As far as never knowing the name of Jesus or the Gospel...I don't know how that would work either....except it says in Romans that God made His divine nature plain to them through what He made. I don't know this first hand, but I have heard stories of peoples who had never had any access to the written word, have the gospel presented to them as well as Jesus, in ways they could visualize and understand.

Hi Kathyrn,

I notice that you say many times that you have learned scripture from the physical creation, does that imply that you are learning it from the Holy Spirit giving you revelation and that the Holy Spirit is giving you revelation by showing you the analogies in creation?

I am trying to see if you regard that the only way we can "LEARN" the things of God is by revelation from God through the Holy Spirit or not.

Thanks,
Rick

[Richard Amiel McGough]

WHETHER CALLED UPON
OR NOT
GOD WILL BE PRESENT.

Can't argue with that! Except perhaps the definition of "God."

[Richard Amiel McGough]

WHY?Because i can.

Touche!

Seriously, the idea just whacked me in the head one day, and my i has never been 'right' since. It seems pretty confusing to me too, but it makes sense.

We mean that there comes a point when critical thought deconstructs the matter reasoned through to the point where nothing makes sense, and knowing that nothing comes from nothing via our own puny comprehension of things inconcievable, there comes in view a crossroad, a choice, and we ask ourselves, "What in tarnation is that thing?"

Having traveled the road to that point time and again and again and again and again and again and again again only to bravely run away, me said to one of my selfs, "Quit chickening out!" There either is a Master of the universe who has made things far more complex that you can grasp, or there is nothing...and there certainly is not nothing.

i thinks, therefore i am not what i thinks. This being the case, i is far from infallible, and my selfs are probably also misconstructions of the ways i misunderstand things the most concretely.

So, the issue at stake was "ground of being" along with how and why whatever i is exists in the first place.

When i used to wreak havok through occult means--sorcery, enchantment, sigil work tied in with eidelons and thoughtforms, it was a process of deconstructionalization onto restructuring my world view to achieve intended results...and it works more than quite well, BTW:
Create a system of beliefs coherent and congruent with the world around your selfs, make the change intended, and get the h-e-double hockey sticks out of Dodge...and a life lived on the razors edge resulted. However, in my's own linear time begain to see castles crumbling until i eventually hit rock bottom...
and the only way you can go from there is up, right?

Wrong.

i met Thanatos on hir own ground, and i was at a loss of ability to control or direct anything. (a Working gone awry.)

i hollered out to Yeshua, and He saved me, placing life back into my "ground of being"<(=soul life= ruach+nephesh onto reviving neshamah) which altercated perspectives immensely. Seeing things from outside the box (tent=body) and far from being connected to it, everything that happens within it's confines is now understood for what it is, the gift from God.

Because He loves me this much, i cannot really find anything more worthwhile than being His slave. The one who gives and calls back His spirit of life back onto Himself gave it back to my me...and life gets better all the time...but hardly in the sense most understand it.

I sincerely think that, despite it's apparent incoherence, I really truly do understand you!

I've had experiences that could perhaps be described with similar prose. But then I continued having experiences, and now I see when I cried to Jesus and was saved, it was yet another unfolding of the same process of thought that deconstructed "the matter reasoned through to the point where nothing makes sense." I speak now of course of the Bible doctrines that made so much sense at one stage of my growth and now appear empty.

It sounds like you were practicing Magick a la Crowley et al. Is that correct? If not, it certainly sounds like something similar. It would be interesting to learn more of your experience and how it led to faith in Yeshua.

Anyway, the idea came from the Bible and then experience according to what was bravely bolted from repeatedly, ending up being a choice between two things: The Life, or death.

Having existence within the quantum flux, anything that dwells beyond it seems non-logical. It is God's possession: God is all in all or we choose logical incoherency.

[That is the clearest this can be explained without going into a morass of details]

Hummm ... God is all in all ... that's a deep statement. But it is interpreted so very differently by folks here. Some think it means that All is a manifestation of God, whereas other think it means only that God is omnipresent, even in places he's not (like hell).

Entering His posession (space, time, mass, inertia, energy, perspective, belief (itself implies limitation), etc) becoming an active part in it, He operates within it's parameters.

Sorry, but your words make no sense to me because you wrote a temporal term "entering" and applied it to a being that does not exist in time. That seems incoherent to me. If God is "outside of time" then he can't "do" anything like "enter" into time. So why begin with a concept of "timelessness" if we don't even know what it means?

More things exist than any human can concieve.

That is true wisdom. The old bard (or a chunk of bacon) said it himself:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Sympathy becomes the deliberated representation of an event in miniature: a microcosmic representation. These pneumatic formulations of the psyche may or may not find their place IRL, depending on conformity with pre-established parameters already active.

What does IRL mean?

Actually, there is only "one dimension" (cause and effect being one occurance:two sides of one coin) and our own perception comparmentalizes "each dimension" in order to handle what we have not yet utilized.
(Multi-dimensionality is the way we see it and not as it is. My i uses this term as a means to establish affinity towards information transfer.)

Yes, the cause/effect duality has been a buggaboo of philosophy for the longest time. I wonder what could cause such an effect upon the philosophical mind?

Take a walk on the wyld side.

Easy, breezy, beautiful (or not),

Tim Timmy Tim Tim

A walk? Phew! I'll take a ryde on the wyld syde!

Oscar Fingal O'Flahertie Wills Wilde is a friend o' mine. He once famously quipped "A man who does not think for himself does not think at all."

And again he quipped another quippage: "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future."

He seemed quite unable to quit quipping!

[Timmy]

Touche!



I sincerely think that, despite it's apparent incoherence, I really truly do understand you!

It was an attempt to answer briefly...and it could have probably stretched out for miles and miles and miles.

I've had experiences that could perhaps be described with similar prose. But then I continued having experiences, and now I see when I cried to Jesus and was saved, it was yet another unfolding of the same process of thought that deconstructed "the matter reasoned through to the point where nothing makes sense." I speak now of course of the Bible doctrines that made so much sense at one stage of my growth and now appear empty.

Sorry for the seeming incoherence, You caught me off-guard. Touche'
Is turn about fairplay?
You know, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

Me too: i have the same type experiences.
Not right away mind you, but trial and my error led to more errors. Finally, rather than trying to figure things out beyond what applied directly to this life right here, i realized whatever i thought about what i thought God might be meaning in things not applicable is not only irrelevant to me, but probably misunderstood completely, not being able to relat with it IRL.

It sounds like you were practicing Magick a la Crowley et al. Is that correct? If not, it certainly sounds like something similar. It would be interesting to learn more of your experience and how it led to faith in Yeshua.

Nope, started in another school altogether. Egyptian magick via the Ogdoadic tradition (O. A. S. / O.S.V.) led to an assignment leading half way across the U.S., having completed all the grade work through proficiency in praxi, i was given the whole library of a 33rd degree Mason (R. M. O. K. M.) who had befriended me.

Finally ending up down in N.O.L.A. (1987), behind the scenes, we Worked and established an offshoot of Crowley's first works, through an order established in England (I.O.T). All of his writings were read through and studied at this point.

During this time, up to 1993 many of the old practices were groomed through, locating the working mechanisms behind the ceremonies and further developed "free-style" Workings that were absent of the usual crutches--regalia and rites--utilizing everyday objects through altercating states of consciousness to change things "unexpectedly." From here the magickal state of consciousness was explored to the point where there was no more need towards objectification at all--to "altercate" things.

Hummm ... God is all in all ... that's a deep statement. But it is interpreted so very differently by folks here. Some think it means that All is a manifestation of God, whereas other think it means only that God is omnipresent, even in places he's not (like hell).

Check out Isaiah 33.10-17 and please telo what you think this means compared to God not being completely omni-present. (There are more verses that confirm this concept in Isaiah...words out of Yeshua's own mouth.)

Sorry, but your words make no sense to me because you wrote a temporal term "entering" and applied it to a being that does not exist in time. That seems incoherent to me. If God is "outside of time" then he can't "do" anything like "enter" into time. So why begin with a concept of "timelessness" if we don't even know what it means?

entered, as in through Jesus Christ.


In another way, it doesn't seem so inconcieveable that someone above and beyond time can choose to be part of it or not, does it?

That is true wisdom. The old bard (or a chunk of bacon) said it himself:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Oh yeah. . .bacon. . .
...but i was thinking in terms of how much of what i think i know most probably is a contrivance and how much of it actually exists IRL?

What does IRL mean?


Yes, the cause/effect duality has been a buggaboo of philosophy for the longest time. I wonder what could cause such an effect upon the philosophical mind?

I(n) R(eal) L(ife)

In answer to effect, i'm guessing it's perspective based on our locale in the Universe.
Wherever i go, there i am (or not?).

A walk? Phew! I'll take a ryde on the wyld syde!

Oscar Fingal O'Flahertie Wills Wilde is a friend o' mine. He once famously quipped "A man who does not think for himself does not think at all."

And again he quipped another quippage: "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future."

He seemed quite unable to quit quipping!

Oscar Fingal O'Flahertie Wills Wilde seems like my kinda' guy...but i play too much it seems.
(Mayhaps it helps to keep me from taking my selfs too seriously.)
...and Mick's legendary singing comes to mind, "Every cops a criminal, and all the sinners saints..."

i try to think i think for myself but without our experience through our environs, what "free-thinking" or critique would exist?

i used to reach out to hug the universe only to repreatedly with arms wide open plunge into the abyss.

Hypomyocondritically...or something like that,
and catharsisically your Little Timmy
(now you've got my guard down moreso than before.)

Did you ever think that a capital B is just a one and a three smushed together?

[kathryn]

Hi Kathyrn,

I notice that you say many times that you have learned scripture from the physical creation, does that imply that you are learning it from the Holy Spirit giving you revelation and that the Holy Spirit is giving you revelation by showing you the analogies in creation?

I am trying to see if you regard that the only way we can "LEARN" the things of God is by revelation from God through the Holy Spirit or not.

Thanks,
Rick

Hi Rick...sorry, I missed this. Of course I learn from the Holy Spirit as does everyone else in their walk towards understanding. I certainly have no ability in myself to appropriate it.
I don't mention this, because too many christians use the Holy Spirit as a battering ram in their discussions, pleading secret knowledge that unbelievers can't attain to, if they're not following their train of thought. A whole host of rotten doctrine has been attributed to this.

We need to be able to explain the Hope within us using the Biblical criteria for determining truth. If we can't provide the foundational understanding from the plummet line, and provide at least two or three witnesses that will enlarge on that foundation through the 3 phases of redemption...we need to wait until the Holy Spirit has enlightened the written Logos until we can,
rather than attribute a half digested mixture to the Holy Spirit.

If we're able to do this, it doesn't matter if the person we're conversing with understands it immediately or not; it won't return void.