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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by heb13-13 View Post
    Kathryn,

    In your belief system, will Christ be one with Satan once again? Will they both make peace with one another?

    Thanks,
    Rick
    Using God's witness in creation...Satan is like the irritant in the oyster that forms the pearl...It is the fly petrified in the amber. It was an evil (divided) spirit , used as a tool, which is destroyed when it is no longer needed, and the "division" has consummated..or become One. Does that help , Rick?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Hey Kathryn,

    I'm sorry I used the word "game." That trivializes something that is very important to you. I don't want to be a swine that tramples your pearls. Please forgive me.

    I want to be your friend on this. I want to try to help you see how things look from another perspective so maybe we can understand each other better and you will have more success sharing your perceptions with other people. When I say that things seem arbitrary, I'm only describing how it seems to me. I was trying to help you understand. It was not meant as a "judgment" but rather a simple statement of fact. I don't want to pretend to understand something that I don't, and I don't want to just ignore your posts. That's why I asked how you came to the conclusion that Christ was a "personification of Asenath." Can you see why that would strike anyone as "arbitrary?" That's why I asked "how do you discern which one's apply and which don't?". If you can't see this, then there will be very few people that will bother reading your posts because they >seem< like arbitrary (and hence meaningless) associtations.

    I'm sorry if I've written things that made you feel I was an "enemy" - I'm just trying to understand.

    All the very best to you my friend!

    Richard
    Kathryn,

    Just to back up Richard, I really don't understand everything you say, either. God doesn't talk to me in numbers and I don't talk to Him in numbers. Others don't talk to me in numbers or types and I don't talk to others that way. If I want to make something obvious to someone, I speak with plain speech and that is what I understand, too. I have never gotten the Asenath typology, either.

    I consider myself somewhat intelligent and I know I have a long way to go. I may even be the least intelligent on this prodigious forum, but if it doesn't pass the "simplicity" test, then I usually get suspicious. I did not have a difficult time understanding Richard's Biblewheel book but I am having a difficult time understanding a lot of your posts.

    Just taking a cue from Richard's post and letting you know. If I don't tell you I'm confused then that would not be fair to you. I don't want to ignore you, but find myself passing up your posts and I don't want to do that.

    All the best,
    Rick
    Last edited by heb13-13; 12-13-2011 at 12:58 PM.

    There is no other book like the Bible in the world where you have to know the Author to understand the book. If Christianity were the religion of the Book then it would be no different than any other religion in the world. But, Christianity is Christ! It is the dynamic, personal Spirit of God functioning in man.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    If it takes a lot of words to explain, then it's not an answer to my question. And the "type" is certainly has not been used as "THE primary type in the Bible."

    Has the >>>BIBLE<<< used this type or not? If so, where? Just point me to the verses where it is used so I can see it myself. If it is real I don't need a detailed explanation.
    No..again..it is extremely simple...but for weeks now, I have been trying to show you where the plummet is laid in the Law...the small beginning. When we finally came to some peace about this ...you left for the conference. It is the type in the Law, that is the KEY that opens the understanding for the expansion of the type throughout the rest of scripture. If you can't see the concept in the Law...there is no point in me going any farther with it. Again...it is as simple as abc! We just can't seem to get past this one place. So...let me ask you this:

    1. can you agree that the plummet line is laid in the Law of Moses? God's Law reveals His character and purposes. Jesus fulfilled the Law.

    2. If you agree with the above...can you see why , if you desired to see the type fully revealed, that you would need to understand the Law of the Firstborn..and why the donkey had to be redeemed by a Lamb?

    PS...of course I want you to be honest and tell me how you see it....it would just be nice if you left the judgements out...and just said: "I'm still not seeing this. Perhaps you could explain it further". Again...put yourself in my shoes here. You're teaching a mathematical forumla; there's a little snot in the class that keeps standing up saying that it's all subjective, before you've had a chance to get to step 2.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathryn View Post
    Using God's witness in creation...Satan is like the irritant in the oyster that forms the pearl...It is the fly petrified in the amber. It was an evil (divided) spirit , used as a tool, which is destroyed when it is no longer needed, and the "division" has consummated..or become One. Does that help , Rick?
    Please forgive me, for being "thick-headed".

    So, Satan and Jesus will not become one and settle their "divisions" or they will?

    What is the "division" that will become One? Usually that speaks of more than one thing. To make something one, usually means 2 or more things. What 2 or more things are you saying will become ONE?

    Can you just use God's Word and not His "witness in creation"?

    You can come up with almost anything using creation depending on how you "look" at it.

    Sorry, if I am exasperating you.
    Rick

    There is no other book like the Bible in the world where you have to know the Author to understand the book. If Christianity were the religion of the Book then it would be no different than any other religion in the world. But, Christianity is Christ! It is the dynamic, personal Spirit of God functioning in man.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathryn View Post
    1. can you agree that the plummet line is laid in the Law of Moses? God's Law reveals His character and purposes. Jesus fulfilled the Law.
    Can't we say that God's character and purposes are seen in Creation as the starting point and then with Adam and Eve?

    In the thread, "You Can Be Righteous", I showed a little bit of this.

    Got to go and will be online either late tonight or tomorrow morning.

    Bye all,
    Rick

    There is no other book like the Bible in the world where you have to know the Author to understand the book. If Christianity were the religion of the Book then it would be no different than any other religion in the world. But, Christianity is Christ! It is the dynamic, personal Spirit of God functioning in man.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by heb13-13 View Post
    Kathryn,

    Just to back up Richard, I really don't understand everything you say, either. God doesn't talk to me in numbers and I don't talk to Him in numbers. Others don't talk to me in numbers or types and I don't talk to others that way. If I want to make something obvious to someone, I speak with plain speech and that is what I understand, too. I have never gotten the Asenath typology, either.

    I consider myself somewhat intelligent and I know I have a long way to go. I may even be the least intelligent on this prodiguous forum, but if it doesn't pass the "simplicity" test, then I usually get suspicious. I did not have a difficult time understanding Richard's Biblewheel book but I am having a difficult time understanding a lot of your posts.

    Just taking a cue from Richard's post and letting you know. If I don't tell you I'm confused then that would not be fair to you. I don't want to ignore you, but find myself passing up your posts and I don't want to do that.

    All the best,
    Rick
    Ok Rick...thanks for letting me know
    I need now, to see what you ARE understanding. Do either of you see the TWO who are ONE...who have been "divided" as in the "cutting of the covenant" of ONE animal, cut in half? If that isn't clear, the Asenath /Joseph/Jesus type won't make sense.

  7. #37
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    Why do you say that? Where is the "donkey" used as a "type" of the Body? If you could show me that the BIBLE actually uses the donkey as a "primary type" that would really help. No need to explain anything in detail. Just show me the places where the Scripture actually uses the donkey as a type of the body so I can see it for myself. That should be helpful.
    Oy vey oy vey oy vey! I We've been here before! It is in the Levitical Law where the PLUMMET LINE IS LAID IN THE SMALL BEGINNING...revealing exactly what Jesus fulfilled at the cross. The firstborn of ALL creatures are sanctified (as the first fruits) ..however the donkey had to be redeemed by a Lamb. If the person couldn't afford a lamb for the offering...the donkey had to have its neck broken. We are the donkey who can't redeem ourselves. This type goes ALL through scripture, revealing the 3 stages of redemption. There is no obvious verse that says "the donkey is the primary type". Again...do you want to live life in the obvious? Do you respond to "in your face" music? Paintings with one color? Typology is like a beautiful piece of music ...in the same KEY...but with wonderful harmonies weaving throughout.
    Excellent - now I know the source of our confusion. When I asked where the BIBLE uses the donkey typology, you answered by telling me where YOU use that typology. That's the key. The Bible may or may not have set up the "donkey" as "THE primary type" - that's subject to debate becaus the BIBLE itself never explicitly >>>USES<<< the donkey as a type.

    Now I agree that typology adds great depth and richness to the Bible. But it also allows people to make up whatever they want, and I personally don't have much interest in that. If typology were music, maybe I'm a fan of highly structured symphanies like Beethoven and you are more into improvisational jazz.

    The thing is, you keep asserting that all this can be "proven" but every time I look for proof I feel unsatisfied with the answer. I've tried to communicate the reasons many times, but something is blocking our communication. Maybe it would help if you made an effort to see things from my perspective for a few minutes? We're both looking for mutual understanding so let's see if we are smart enough to figure out how to accomplish it! Sound like a plan?

    Yeah, well we all know what comes out of the "hole" in the "ass." Is that what you want to share with the world?do my posts sound like that's what I'm sharing with the world??? When a birth happens at one end...the shit hits the fan at the other. We have to expel the toxins (carnal mindsets) before we take on the Mind of Christ. (the Lamb) There's a reason the Bible commanded the Israelites to have spades to bury their shit. It stinks. It can spread disease. I think it's gonna take a little more work for me to understand your metaphors and types.it doesn't take ANY WORK at all. It is your way of thinking that is getting in the way. I can teach my grandkids the concept of satan and redemption in less than 10 minutes, using the witness in creation.
    OK - please identify how I need to change my way of thinking, and I'll do my best to follow your instructions. I love that! I want nothing more than to gain new points of view. The prison of the self is that it is only "one point of view." So it would be absolutely wonderful if you could suggest how I should change my thinking.

    It seems like a lousy metaphor for Divine RevelationI never gave it as one.
    I'm sorry if I misunderstood you again. I was thinking about your many references to "revelations" through the typology you have been studying.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  8. #38
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    plain speech

    And PLAIN SPEECH is what this is all about....getting away from the precept on precept...which is WHY the witness in Creation is vital....and breathtakingly simple and PLAIN. He pulls down the High Places...mountains in our mind...and RAISES THE PLAIN!

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Excellent - now I know the source of our confusion. When I asked where the BIBLE uses the donkey typology, you answered by telling me where YOU use that typology. That's the key. The Bible may or may not have set up the "donkey" as "THE primary type" - that's subject to debate becaus the BIBLE itself never explicitly >>>USES<<< the donkey as a type.

    Now I agree that typology adds great depth and richness to the Bible. But it also allows people to make up whatever they want, and I personally don't have much interest in that. If typology were music, maybe I'm a fan of highly structured symphanies like Beethoven and you are more into improvisational jazz. Beethoven had no subtleties ? Don't think so! If he had lived in the 20's, he would have been improvising like a mad thing!

    The thing is, you keep asserting that all this can be "proven" but every time I look for proof I feel unsatisfied with the answer.THAT'S BECAUSE YOU NEVER HANG AROUND LONG ENOUGH! THEN you tell me if it takes a long time...it isn't PLAIN. It is as SIMPLE as the nose on your face (or maybe that neck) but, I have to wade through YOUR mindsets of the written Logos to get to it. NOT MINE! I've tried to communicate the reasons many times, but something is blocking our communication. Maybe it would help if you made an effort to see things from my perspective for a few minutes?of course!! This was why, at the very beginning of this, I tried to take it into the Bible wheel...YOUR REALM. And..if you've noticed, I've been doing nothing but using creation as a witness, for some time now...which is also your realm. We're both looking for mutual understanding so let's see if we are smart enough to figure out how to accomplish it! Sound like a plan? YES!


    OK - please identify how I need to change my way of thinking, and I'll do my best to follow your instructions. I love that! I want nothing more than to gain new points of view. The prison of the self is that it is only "one point of view." So it would be absolutely wonderful if you could suggest how I should change my thinking. I just did


    I'm sorry if I misunderstood you again. I was thinking about your many references to "revelations" through the typology you have been studying.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathryn View Post
    Ok Rick...thanks for letting me know
    I need now, to see what you ARE understanding. Do either of you see the TWO who are ONE...who have been "divided" as in the "cutting of the covenant" of ONE animal, cut in half? If that isn't clear, the Asenath /Joseph/Jesus type won't make sense.
    If the split animal was a type it was a type of Christ who was slain. But he was not "two" that then because one. The two that became one are the Jews and Gentiles. But that doesn't work and it certainly has nothing to do with Asenath (of whom we know almost nothing). So it still seems to me that you are talking in mysteries wrapped in enigmas hidden in obscurity. Please remember, I'm really really really trying to help here. Rick and I are not the only ones who can't understand your posts. If you want to be understood, you must say something understandable, which means that you start with something we clearly agree upon. A common foundation of agreement so we can all start on the same page. Then you can move forward one step at a time, and we will know if and when we lose track with each other. It is the only way.

    Much love and peace to you my friend!
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

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