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  1. #31
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    speaking of loops

    And speaking of loops...and harmony...you have seen the latest on our comet LoveJoy? The Creation will always witness the Word made Flesh, of true Unity of the One Eye.

  2. #32
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    This is an excellent theme. We do indeed "color" the reality we perceive by how we interpret it. It can be a self-confirming feedback loop. No matter what interpretation you choose, your perception will then "confirm" it. But how then do we know which is "true" if any? Or are all interpretations "true" to a degree? Is truth more relative than absolute? Things that are "true" in one interpretation might not be true in another.

    The world can be transfigured when you break free from your limiting categories and see it "as it is" - infinite.

    But I don't think Jesus was talking about the unified 3D vision that synthesizes the vision of two eyes to produce depth perception when he spoke of "plucking out" an offending eye. The context makes that impossible. Just look at the parallelism with cutting off the offending hand. The mere fact that a "single eye" is mentioned does not mean that it is speaking of the unified 3D vision derived from synthesizing two eyes. I think the plucking is also the be-heading. The Word made Flesh , God's extravagant , unconditional Love is an offence to those still seeing with divided vision.

    This exemplifies one of the big challenges with symbolic thinking. Folks frequently "connect" two otherwise separate symbols merely because of an identity on a single point. If we do that, we con-fuse everthing. We overlap concepts that were not intended to be overlapped, and so the image because confused and incoherent. And this links back to the theme at hand - 3D focus depends on a seeing one thing from two different angles. Confusion comes from seeing two separate things as if they were one.

    Great topic Bob!
    Why did you bring in the idea of "offense?" I was talking about confusion. When everything is overlapped with everything else, it becomes confusing and there is no understanding. I take no offense at "God's extravagant, unconditional love."
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Why did you bring in the idea of "offense?" I was talking about confusion. When everything is overlapped with everything else, it becomes confusing and there is no understanding. I take no offense at "God's extravagant, unconditional love."
    I was speaking of the context...If your eye offend thee...pluck it out. (same concept as be-heading the vain imaginations that cause us to divide the whole or ONE.)

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathryn View Post
    I was speaking of the context...If your eye offend thee...pluck it out. (same concept as be-heading the vain imaginations that cause us to divide the whole or ONE.)


    Sorry! I should have noticed that.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post


    Sorry! I should have noticed that.
    No appology needed, Dear Bro O Mine

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    This is an excellent theme. We do indeed "color" the reality we perceive by how we interpret it. It can be a self-confirming feedback loop. No matter what interpretation you choose, your perception will then "confirm" it. But how then do we know which is "true" if any? Or are all interpretations "true" to a degree? Is truth more relative than absolute? Things that are "true" in one interpretation might not be true in another.
    First off, it is not "no matter what interpretation we choose."
    It is the Joseph awareness which show that. His interpretation was from God and Interpretations belonged to God. That was his Foundation (Yesod, store house of images. The lower waters.)
    Being that the subconscious symbolism is self reflecting and self fulfilling we must get the right interpretation to make any sense out of it whatsoever.
    In your Dumbo dream which is very ideosyncratic, because it is a dream, you found universal symbols that were coming through, despite the personal nature of the dream.

    All interpretations are true to a degree for the person having the dream (or interpretation of reality, for that matter.) This is what psychoanalysis is all about. But, it is dealing with Yesod.
    Both Freud and Jung dealt with that aspect.
    Jung took it a little further because he saw that the physical world would actually echo the symbolism of the dreams, which you also found to be true in your Dumbo experience.
    Something from Outside of the loop was affecting the loop.

    This is the Yesod, (Foundation, lower waters) of one tree overlapping the Tipareth, (Vision of the Harmony of things, Beauty ie. everything is connected and fits).
    You said, "Things that are "true" in one interpretation might not be true in another."
    That is exactly correct and that is why the interpretation has to come from outside the loop.

    You have been seeing that everything is connected. That is the thing.
    Reaching this state of consciousness and you have seen the interpretation of that state of consciousness fits with the Bible in the dumbo dream, but in walking around Reality you seem reluctant to apply the same measure.

    For me the interpretation or measure is the bible and the Qabalah and Tarot.
    But it is also the three that bear witness in Earth. Inner outer and scripture. Spirit, Blood and Water.


    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    The world can be transfigured when you break free from your limiting categories and see it "as it is" - infinite.
    But I don't think Jesus was talking about the unified 3D vision that synthesizes the vision of two eyes to produce depth perception when he spoke of "plucking out" an offending eye. The context makes that impossible. Just look at the parallelism with cutting off the offending hand. The mere fact that a "single eye" is mentioned does not mean that it is speaking of the unified 3D vision derived from synthesizing two eyes.

    Neither do I. He was talking about the principle of awakening. And to do that we have to stop seeing things the way we usually see them. (Plucking out the eye)
    Like I said I used it as an analogy to demonstrate the awakening principle which shows itself in all four worlds because it is a Principle.
    So, it is not an analogy at all, just the Principle working itself out in matter as it does in the emotional realm and the spiritual realms, as it always does.
    I think he was speaking about the third eye opening and the partial viewpoint we have to give up for this to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post

    This exemplifies one of the big challenges with symbolic thinking. Folks frequently "connect" two otherwise separate symbols merely because of an identity on a single point. If we do that, we con-fuse everthing. We overlap concepts that were not intended to be overlapped, and so the image because confused and incoherent. And this links back to the theme at hand - 3D focus depends on a seeing one thing from two different angles. Confusion comes from seeing two separate things as if they were one.
    It is not a single point only. You are actually one of the witnesses to me.
    You are seeing things you didn't see before. That is the third eye opened. (spirit and blood)
    Jesus also said "If thine eye be single thy whole body is full of light." (water)
    I am also basing on my own experience, (spirit.)
    And it is fitting the pattern of the Tree of Life as shown in Qabala. (Blood and water)
    It also fits with don Juan's teachings of "Seeing" and stopping the world. The second attention and sneaking between the sorcerer's description (interpretation) and the "normal" men's description (interpretation) of the world/Reality,.. to become a "Seer" or "Man of Knowledge." (blood)

    Is that enough witnesses for you???

    Like I said, it is not a single point. It all fits and interweaves Beautifully. (Tipareth)

    It all has to do with the realization that Yesod and Tipareth are overlapped.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Great topic Bob!
    It is THE topic.

    That's my interpretation and I'm sticking with it,.. Have a great day Richard.
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob May; 12-19-2011 at 11:23 AM.
    Harry Potter,.. "Is this all happening in my head, or is it real?"
    Professor Dumbledor,.. "Of course it's all happening in your head. What makes you think that means it isn't real?"

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob May View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    This is an excellent theme. We do indeed "color" the reality we perceive by how we interpret it. It can be a self-confirming feedback loop. No matter what interpretation you choose, your perception will then "confirm" it. But how then do we know which is "true" if any? Or are all interpretations "true" to a degree? Is truth more relative than absolute? Things that are "true" in one interpretation might not be true in another.
    First off, it is not "no matter what interpretation we choose."
    It is the Joseph awareness which show that. His interpretation was from God and Interpretations belonged to God. That was his Foundation (Yesod, store house of images. The lower waters.)
    Being that the subconscious symbolism is self reflecting and self fulfilling we must get the right interpretation to make any sense out of it whatsoever.

    In your Dumbo dream which is very idiosyncratic, because it is a dream, you found universal symbols that were coming through, despite the personal nature of the dream.

    All interpretations are true to a degree for the person having the dream (or interpretation of reality, for that matter.) This is what psychoanalysis is all about. But, it is dealing with Yesod.
    Both Freud and Jung dealt with that aspect.
    Jung took it a little further because he saw that the physical world would actually echo the symbolism of the dreams, which you also found to be true in your Dumbo experience.
    Something from Outside of the loop was affecting the loop.
    Well, I think we'll need to refine those words a bit. Any interpretation - whether "true" or not - will have self-confirming aspects because the interpreter will select (cherry pick) facts that support the preferred interpretation. We have mountains of evidence demonstrating this phenomenon.

    Now I also agree that there is a "interpretation from God" in which the "idiosyncratically received" symbols are based on universal archetypes. That works great for me. I think it's true, but we still have to sort out the archetypal wheat from the idiosyncratic chaff.

    I think the archetypes of the collective unconscious are clothed by my personal unconscious. So any dream analysis requires two layers of "unpacking."

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob May View Post
    This is the Yesod, (Foundation, lower waters) of one tree overlapping the Tipareth, (Vision of the Harmony of things, Beauty ie. everything is connected and fits).
    You said, "Things that are "true" in one interpretation might not be true in another."
    That is exactly correct and that is why the interpretation has to come from outside the loop.

    You have been seeing that everything is connected. That is the thing.
    Reaching this state of consciousness and you have seen the interpretation of that state of consciousness fits with the Bible in the dumbo dream, but in walking around Reality you seem reluctant to apply the same measure.

    For me the interpretation or measure is the bible and the Qabalah and Tarot.
    But it is also the three that bear witness in Earth. Inner outer and scripture. Spirit, Blood and Water.
    Hummm ... I understand Inner = Spirit and Scripture = Water. But Outer = blood? I don't know.

    It would be interesting to delve into my heart to understand why I became reluctant to walk consistently in this world with a coherently "magical" view of both inner and outer. I think in large part it is because I adopted a fundamentalist stance on Christianity. Around 1993 I met again an old childhood friend who had become fundamentalist. She strongly confirmed my intuitions that my books by Aleister Crowley and other occultists were "evil" and should be destroyed. So I burned them all with her and her husband in a ceremony out in the forest. It took about three hours to burn them all. I felt very "clean" after that, as if the Spirit of God had burned away all the lies in those books. And so I became much more fundamentalist and closed myself off to my own intuition.

    It is very strange though - during all those fundamentalist years, I never forgot the Dumbo Dream. But I did "forget" a lot about the associated ideas of Crowley's Tarot, the Tree of Life, and all the other "occultic" things that were profoundly integrated with it. It's so strange to have it awake 21 years later with all it's original vitality. 12/22/12 will be the 22nd anniversary of the synchronicity that was burned into my mind.

    It is true that I have been "reluctant" to let myself fall into any old interpretive scheme, especially since it has elements that come from the "outside." The Bible, Qabbalah, and Tarot are a funny lot. They come both from the outside and the inside. Obviously, I've had those three speak from my intuition, dreams and synchronicities in very meaningful ways so there is no question about their reality. But my caution and "level-headedness" keeps me from "diving in" - it seems important to take a step back and evaluate the situation. Hence my skepticism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob May View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    The world can be transfigured when you break free from your limiting categories and see it "as it is" - infinite.
    But I don't think Jesus was talking about the unified 3D vision that synthesizes the vision of two eyes to produce depth perception when he spoke of "plucking out" an offending eye. The context makes that impossible. Just look at the parallelism with cutting off the offending hand. The mere fact that a "single eye" is mentioned does not mean that it is speaking of the unified 3D vision derived from synthesizing two eyes.
    Neither do I. He was talking about the principle of awakening. And to do that we have to stop seeing things the way we usually see them. (Plucking out the eye)
    Like I said I used it as an analogy to demonstrate the awakening principle which shows itself in all four worlds because it is a Principle.
    So, it is not an analogy at all, just the Principle working itself out in matter as it does in the emotional realm and the spiritual realms, as it always does.
    I think he was speaking about the third eye opening and the partial viewpoint we have to give up for this to happen.
    Well, if that's what he meant, why did he say it in moral terms? Look at the context:
    Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
    At first glance, this looks like a standard moral teaching. But perhaps we can transfigure it. Perhaps Jesus is talking about a lack of self-control and how it leads to lust and the "fire" that leads to all kinds of problems in this life. The Yogi must learn to control his "animal nature" by sitting in meditation and not allowing the lusts of the flesh to control his body and mind. Thus the pure in heart will see God, rather than being thrown again into the "lake of lusting fire" (another transmigration through this level of reality).

    So there .. that was easy. A brief meditation shows that passage to have nothing to do with traditional exoteric moral teachings about "heaven and hell" as conditions imposed by God upon a soul, but rather the path to higher consciousness through meditation and right living.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob May View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    This exemplifies one of the big challenges with symbolic thinking. Folks frequently "connect" two otherwise separate symbols merely because of an identity on a single point. If we do that, we con-fuse everthing. We overlap concepts that were not intended to be overlapped, and so the image because confused and incoherent. And this links back to the theme at hand - 3D focus depends on a seeing one thing from two different angles. Confusion comes from seeing two separate things as if they were one.
    It is not a single point only. You are actually one of the witnesses to me.
    You are seeing things you didn't see before. That is the third eye opened. (spirit and blood)
    Jesus also said "If thine eye be single thy whole body is full of light." (water)
    I am also basing on my own experience, (spirit.)
    And it is fitting the pattern of the Tree of Life as shown in Qabala. (Blood and water)
    It also fits with don Juan's teachings of "Seeing" and stopping the world. The second attention and sneaking between the sorcerer's description (interpretation) and the "normal" men's description (interpretation) of the world/Reality,.. to become a "Seer" or "Man of Knowledge." (blood)

    Is that enough witnesses for you???

    Like I said, it is not a single point. It all fits and interweaves Beautifully. (Tipareth)

    It all has to do with the realization that Yesod and Tipareth are overlapped.
    I'm still not sure about aligning the spirit/blood/water with inner/outer/scripture or qabbalah/tarot/Bible ....

    And there are a few points in your post I didn't see with perfect clarity, but in general I think I'm getting the gist of it. And most important, this is really helping me re-awaken to a larger view of reality. Thanks!

    Great chatting!

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Well, I think we'll need to refine those words a bit. Any interpretation - whether "true" or not - will have self-confirming aspects because the interpreter will select (cherry pick) facts that support the preferred interpretation. We have mountains of evidence demonstrating this phenomenon.
    Yes, Yesod is a whore when disconnected from Tipareth.
    You really need to take time to watch Man of La Mancha. El Donza, the whore is the lower triangle of the Tree. She lays with anyone who has the cash. This is the Cherry picking you are speaking about. The world reflects our interpretation no matter what it is.
    Don Quixote saw her as Dulcinea. He said the woman was the very soul of man. He also said a man without a woman was like a body without a soul.
    So the woman is the soul.
    In the end he finally has an effect on El Donza/Dulcinea. He loses the battle of the mirrors and lying on his death bed as the rich land owner (I don't remember his name) El Donza shows up and reminds him that he once called her Dulcinea.
    He gets out of his death bed and sings the impossible dream and dies.
    This is the Jacob/Joseph story of reunion.
    And the spirit of Jacob revived
    And Israel said
    my son is yet alive. I will go and see him once more before I die.

    My teacher used to say no one wins the battle of the mirrors.
    It is just as you say, we can make anything out of reality that we read into it.

    So why not read into it what Jesus read into it???
    We are sons of God. We have promises that affect our world view just as Don Quixote affected El Donza (soul) At the end, she refused to be called El Donza, the whore. She had been transformed into Dulcinea.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Now I also agree that there is a "interpretation from God" in which the "idiosyncratically received" symbols are based on universal archetypes. That works great for me. I think it's true, but we still have to sort out the archetypal wheat from the idiosyncratic chaff.
    The angels messengers, messages, synchronicities sort out the wheat from the chaff. We just stand by and watch it happen. That is the Beauty (Tipareth) of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    I think the archetypes of the collective unconscious are clothed by my personal unconscious. So any dream analysis requires two layers of "unpacking."
    It's all the same symbols. It all comes from the same place. We are just recievers, clay vessels. We only think we come up with original things. We are really just tuning in to the collective unconscious. It is Yesod and it is all around us. There is nothing new under the sun (Tipareth) Yesod is under the sun.


    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Hummm ... I understand Inner = Spirit and Scripture = Water. But Outer = blood? I don't know.
    The blood of Abel cried out from the ground. So does the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus that speaks better things.
    If these should hold their peace the stones would immediately cry out.

    Even don Juan taught reaffirmations from the world around us.
    And your dreams and the numbers connected to those dreams bled through into you cash register.
    Physical matter, stones, ground, Earth, speaking. We just have to shut off our preconcieved notion that it cannot possibly happen and then it happens.
    What do you think synchronicities are??? Blood crying out from the ground.

    This is why I said that you were missing the most important thing. You are too worried about the details of your dream and are missing the 2000 pound elephant.
    That is the promise. That he will come and teach us.
    How will you manifest yourself to us and not to the world?
    Because the world will not give up their logic long enough to believe that what is happening is really happening.
    Joseph's branches reach over that wall!!! That barrier in our perception.
    I know you know what I am saying, Richard.
    Take the plunge, what do you have to lose but your sanity?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    It would be interesting to delve into my heart to understand why I became reluctant to walk consistently in this world with a coherently "magical" view of both inner and outer. I think in large part it is because I adopted a fundamentalist stance on Christianity. Around 1993 I met again an old childhood friend who had become fundamentalist. She strongly confirmed my intuitions that my books by Aleister Crowley and other occultists were "evil" and should be destroyed. So I burned them all with her and her husband in a ceremony out in the forest. It took about three hours to burn them all. I felt very "clean" after that, as if the Spirit of God had burned away all the lies in those books. And so I became much more fundamentalist and closed myself off to my own intuition.
    I did the same thing. Thousands of dollars worth of books. In my case I thought that the Tree of Life might have been the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
    Now I think that it may just be the same thing. They were both in the midst of the Garden.
    But again, it is our interpretation of it is what matters.
    Do you realize that Satan used a true thing to seduce Jesus in the wilderness?
    If you be the son of God, turn these rocks into bread.
    Isn't that the real test? To turn the dead words of Scripture into spiritual food?


    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    It is very strange though - during all those fundamentalist years, I never forgot the Dumbo Dream. But I did "forget" a lot about the associated ideas of Crowley's Tarot, the Tree of Life, and all the other "occultic" things that were profoundly integrated with it. It's so strange to have it awake 21 years later with all it's original vitality. 12/22/12 will be the 22nd anniversary of the synchronicity that was burned into my mind.
    Both Joseph and Jesus went into Egypt (obscurity, subconscious) for a period. Both matured below the surface. Incubation. When they reappeared they were mature, revealed as something they were not before their dissappearance. Same was true with Paul.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    It is true that I have been "reluctant" to let myself fall into any old interpretive scheme, especially since it has elements that come from the "outside." The Bible, Qabbalah, and Tarot are a funny lot. They come both from the outside and the inside. Obviously, I've had those three speak from my intuition, dreams and synchronicities in very meaningful ways so there is no question about their reality. But my caution and "level-headedness" keeps me from "diving in" - it seems important to take a step back and evaluate the situation. Hence my skepticism.
    But logic is on the lower triangle on the tree. To evaluate the next triangle you must experience it in order to apply your logic. Comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Well, if that's what he meant, why did he say it in moral terms? Look at the context:
    Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
    At first glance, this looks like a standard moral teaching. But perhaps we can transfigure it. Perhaps Jesus is talking about a lack of self-control and how it leads to lust and the "fire" that leads to all kinds of problems in this life. The Yogi must learn to control his "animal nature" by sitting in meditation and not allowing the lusts of the flesh to control his body and mind. Thus the pure in heart will see God, rather than being thrown again into the "lake of lusting fire" (another transmigration through this level of reality).
    Jesus taught on many levels. It can be taken as a moral teaching. That is the obvious meaning.
    But if you take it on that level you would actually pluck out your eye. Do you think he meant for anyone to actually do that?
    No, he was pointing out that we are all fallen short of the law. If we break one commandment we are guilty of all. If we even think sin we have blown it. That brings us to Grace which is our only hope.
    On another level we sublimate the sexual energy. The spinal cord is a continuum. Keep you mind at one end and your eye will offend you. Keep your mind on the other end and you sublimate the same energy into spiritual outlets.
    My teacher used to say a mystic never uses his energy against himself. That was basically his definition of sin.

    So there .. that was easy. A brief meditation shows that passage to have nothing to do with traditional exoteric moral teachings about "heaven and hell" as conditions imposed by God upon a soul, but rather the path to higher consciousness through meditation and right living.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    I'm still not sure about aligning the spirit/blood/water with inner/outer/scripture or qabbalah/tarot/Bible ....
    Scripture is water. Washed by the water of the word.
    Blood cries out from the ground.
    His Spirit beareth witness with our spirit that we are the sons of God. Inner.
    I didn't equate Qabalah, Tarot and Bible in the same way.
    There can be combinations, though.
    If someone I know has the Spirit and confirms something I was working on or adds to it in some way I would say that is Spirit and blood cause it came from outside of me.
    Anyway you only need two to let every word be established, Right? 2 or 3 witnesses.

    If you pay attention to what is going on around you, you will begin to see it works very well. And without the physical world being involved in this there can be no marriage because the bride is Malkuth. That is both our physical bodies and the world around us.
    And there is alway blood on the wedding night of a virgin bride.
    Another example of blood bearing witness.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    And there are a few points in your post I didn't see with perfect clarity, but in general I think I'm getting the gist of it. And most important, this is really helping me re-awaken to a larger view of reality. Thanks!
    Joseph is just beginning to reveal himself to the brothers and Jacob.


    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Great chatting!

    Richard
    Have a great night Richard,
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob May; 12-19-2011 at 11:23 PM.
    Harry Potter,.. "Is this all happening in my head, or is it real?"
    Professor Dumbledor,.. "Of course it's all happening in your head. What makes you think that means it isn't real?"

  9. #39
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    Bob: Blood cries out from the ground.

    This is our "marrow" or core in our "midst" that we come into agreement with. It is the Heart of the Universe. (and the Life)

  10. #40
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    Hi all,

    This is gonna be long and it might not fit into one post, I am going to move the post I had at the tie bow thread cause it fits into what I am getting at here.
    I hope to tie some things together without getting too complicated.

    Originally Posted by debz
    'Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, ‘The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.’'

    This verse is not saying the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of Father God and His Christ (Jesus). It is saying it has become the Kingdom of our Lord (Jesus) and HIS Christ. 'Christ' means anointed one—so who is 'His Christ'? It is His Body on earth—the remnant so much like Him in love and anointing that they are as One, equally yoked. And witnessing to this message once again is another 555: The phrase 'of our Lord and His Christ' totals 5550 (555x10, perfection of order). (Also, the word 'Christ' is found 555 times in the KJV.)

    The ‘kingdoms of the world becoming the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ’ happens following the seventh angel’s trumpet blast. We are told earlier in Rev 10:7, 'But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets." It is the mystery Paul also wrote about, and which is being revealed and understood by true prophets and apostles (Eph 3:4,5). The mystery of ‘Christ in us, the hope of glory,' (Col 1:27); where'…the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery — but I am talking about Christ and the church. Eph 5:31b-32.

    Thoughts?
    Hi Deb and Kathryn,

    I am quoting myself below. It fits so well with what you said,..The Lord and his Christ (anointed one).
    The geneology says 14 generations and it only has 13 to Jesus. We are the 14th and we are anointed also.
    Hence able to enter the Holy Place through the door.


    From the tim Tiebow thread:
    ""Hi all,

    I actually just noticed something that gives more evidence to us being the 14th of the third 14th generation.
    I've been looking at the notes I made on the side of the drawing.

    But if you look in the middle, to the left of the pink line at the top you will see that I had labeled the path as 13 for the path itself and 1 for the Sephirah Kether itself which adds to 14 but also breaks up that third "leg of the race" into 13+1.
    Jesus is One with the Father 13=Unity
    And we are the 1,..One with him.
    So we are in Unity with the One. That is 14.

    Bob

    I had been meaning to get here and read this thread in it entirely but was not able or kept forgetting.
    Now I see why it happened that way. Because I hadn't seen what I posted above yet.
    It fits perfectly. The 13 and the 1.

    Bob ""

    Here is the drawing I referred to above.


    This drawing show Jacob's ladder. Three trees overlapped.
    There is another 1/2 tree to complete it because there are four worlds and a tree in each world.



    We are talking about Christ Consciousness, or the beginning of it. This, in my opinion is the Tipareth of the highest of the four trees.

    It just hit me last night that this is the answer to the mystery that I have been asking myself about for a couple of years now.
    Joseph had two dreams right after recieving the coat of many colors.

    Ge 37:3 Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours.
    Ge 37:4 And when his brethren saw that their father loved him more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him.
    Ge 37:5 And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more.
    Ge 37:6 And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed:
    Ge 37:7 For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
    Ge 37:8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.
    Ge 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
    Ge 37:10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
    Ge 37:11 And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.

    So it is the second dream that I am looking at here. The sun and the moon...
    This dream was fulfilled at the end of the book of Genesis.

    Where was Rachel???? She was not there but dead and buried in Bethlehem!!!
    But she was there in Joseph and Benjamin in a sense.
    Look at the stack of trees called Jacob's ladder. Tipareth Beauty overlaps Kether the Concealed of the Concealed.
    The 13 and the 1 that makes up the third leg of the race. Fourteen generations from Babylon to Christ. It is only 13 to Jesus in the Geneology in Matthew. We are the 14th. Anointed=Christ Consciousness.
    It is gained by the presence of Rachel. She is the 1 (Kether, first path or Sephirah) added to the 13
    Ge 29:17 Leah was tender eyed; but Rachel was beautiful and well favoured.
    Ge 29:30 And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years.

    Rachel is also the Sephirah of Tipareth Beauty because that is what she is Beautiful.

    To gain Rachel Jacob worked for 14 years.

    Rachel is the end of misinterpretation of Reality (Yesod, self reflecting universe) because she also cries out from the ground. She was buried in Bethlehem, House of bread (the Holy Place where the shewbread is kept for the priests.)

    Mt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.

    This level of consciousness is above that of Yesod in which all reality is equal and what you believe is what is true. Self reflection.
    Rachel is saying there is only Jesus left of all the choices in Bethlehem. All the male children from two years old and younger had been slaughtered.
    Rachel is a choice we make!!!
    Christ consciousness, Rachel, as both the hidden Sephirah of Kether on one tree and Beauty, Tipareth on the other tree, the 14th person (the 1 of the 13 and 1 Kether, the Crown) fulfilling Joseph's prophetic dream, is testifying from the ground Bethlehem, Bread, Holy Place that Jesus Christ is necessary for Christ Consciousness. He is the only choice.

    She is "hidden" Kether in Joseph (God's interpretation is Truth) and Benjamin (Grace, the neck/Daath) showing that those two are the only way to Christ and Christ is the Way, Truth and the Life.

    This is the only way through the maze of Yesod which reflects back to us whatever we see as Reality.
    This is Beauty and it is Hidden and it is Rachel.

    I hope this makes some sense.
    There are so many aspects to Christ Consciousness, but the thing about Rachel not being there has bugged me for a long time and I think this answers it for me.

    Bob
    Last edited by Bob May; 12-20-2011 at 06:31 AM.
    Harry Potter,.. "Is this all happening in my head, or is it real?"
    Professor Dumbledor,.. "Of course it's all happening in your head. What makes you think that means it isn't real?"

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