Discerning between the voice of God and the voice of Satan

**kathryn** · 12-04-2011, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by heb13-13
The enemy can get you to receive "something" of his if he can convince your mind. Once our mind is convinced then we exercise our will to receive that "thing" by faith. Whether it is from God or Satan, we can receive it by faith. We act on words and concepts from God or Satan that our mind understands and believes. Both the Holy Spirit and evil spirits are working to convince the hearers.

I know I've mentioned this before...so forgive me for the repetition. There isn't a type and shadow that I know of, that doesn't relate to the mind...and how the Mind of Christ is formed in us.

Jesus said that we must become "like a child " to enter the Kingdom. We are all born with His inner sense of Harmony that witnesses to the goodness of the Father/Mother Heart of God. It isn't confined to Christians..it is in ALL men.
A child reasons inductively...from the subconcious (virgin womb) . We aren't born sinful...we sin because we are mortal.
A child will believe anything an adult tells them. By the time we are adults, we've learned to reason deductively from the conscious mind..and have usually all but killed the child within us.

God has given us His Creation as a valid witness to His Character and Purposes. The harmony of music is heard through the laws of nature. We know when something is off key. A baby knows beauty when he sees it. Have an old crone lean over his crib...and he'll recoil. Deep in our subconscious in the knowledge of "right ness" and true Harmony. We recognize it when we hear and see it.
These are really simple illustrations...but we've made this whole "discerning" thing way too complicated. We can be lured by the Harlot, but we know deep within us, the difference between "her" and "wisdom". Our flesh may love the Harlot for a time...but we know when we've betrayed the Harmony of Wisdom. We can certainly harden our hearts to it...but even then, the Lord hardens whom He wishes , because He knows when we need to explore other avenues to get us back on track. He allows us a wonderful freedom to discover His goodness, by allowing us to taste the counterfeit many times in during our life.

Satan can only hide behind a lie. Truth is breathtaking simple. It is a state of "right ness" . We definately can be taken off the path of Truth for awhile...but never without it causing us to betray that Harmony. The more mature we grow, the easier it becomes to recognize when we've "missed the mark". It affects our whole being and usually those around us. It's never comfortable for long and there's no good fruit that comes of it.

Satan is given as a "buffet" or thorn in our side (like Pauls), to refine and purify our minds. He's nothing but the irritant in the oyster that forms the pearl. He's a tool....used to skim off the dross as we go through the Baptism of Fire. He may masquerade as an angel of light for awhile...but he's like the Wizard of Oz. In fact the Wizard of Oz is one of the most prophetic movies ever to be produced. He sits behind his screen, with all the sound effects and levers, smoke and mirrors...a little guy running a light show. All it took was a little girl, a cowardly lion, a Tin man in search of a heart, and a Straw man without a brain, to uncover him. We don't have to strain to do this, just listen to our "child".

" IF I only had a brain!" (Mind of Christ) should be the clarion call of the church! We've had those "ruby slippers" all along....but we have to confront the wizard and the witch before we realize it. We might fall asleep in the poppy field for awhile...but even that is part of the process.

Jesus came to fullfill the Law. In the Law (which expresses the character and purposes of God , as does His Creation) He has bound Himself to the redemption of ALL mankind...and Jesus fulfilled it! The concept of Hell as the majority of the Church believes it..and burning for eternity...is against God's Law (and character and purposes)! No sin warranted eternal punishment(and only the heathens burned their children in the fire)...and even if it did...the debt has been paid in full. ALL punishment in the Law, was adapted to suit the crime...and the punishment/chastisement was ALWAYS designed to RESTORE the person..never for the sake of punishment/chastisement in and of itself! He said "If I be LIFTED UP (as the serpent/Son of God) I will DRAW ALL men to myself. That word "draw" literally means DRAG.

Jesus paid for the sins of ALL mankind....and ALL of our sin was imputed to Him on the Cross. It took 3 days for the process to complete...that was the Divine limit according to the Law, by which ALL sin was dealt with. What sin then...and what man/woman, is left out of that equation? Jesus literally became Sin. (fully and completely) He says He desires that ALL be saved . He also said that if we pray according to His will..it will be accomplished. His Law expresses His character and purposes. If we haven't had our eyes opened to see Him revealed in His Law...we're not going to know what His will is for mankind.

I realize that there are many seemingly confusing parts of scripture that imply the opposite....but again...there has to be a more in-depth study , from the root of the typology "tree" from Genesis to Revelation. The Church has been studying everything else BUT. There are Laws of Redemption that most know nothing about and the few they do, they've misunderstood.
Any doctrine that contradicts the Goodness of God, His extravagant Love for His Creation and His purpose for ALL mankind(which He WILL accomplish) ...I can tell you...it simply ISN'T found anywhere in the foundation of scripture. The foundation was laid with the plummet line of Love...and the final edifice will magnify the foundation.

If WE know how to give good gifts to our children...God the Father/Mother, ALL the more so. This is the example given of the Father's/Mother's Heart.
In other words, God Himself gave us the experience of parenting our children, to understand His heart. There is not ONE of us, if we are truthful with the "child" and Harmony engraved within us...that could ever conceive of throwing our children into Hell, in the way most Christians have understood the concept. It simply isnt there! We MUST go back to the foundation of Scripture, beginning in the Law of Moses, to understand what Jesus fullfilled on our behalf.
The command not to take the Lord's name in vain....means to use it to no effect. It will ALWAYS bring Life...always bring restoration. And it is GOOD NEWS for ALL mankind. Anything that doesn't make your heart rejoice..is NOT of God. The double edged sword will kill the carnal man, and the river of life first brings death....but only that which goes contrary to His Character of LOVE .... always and ONLY for restoration! Yes...there is a Fire...but it only burns the dross. The chaff/dross aren't people...they're mindsets that have been keeping us from being conformed to His image of which we were made. When Life enters the scene...all that is not of LiFe is made desolate. No one, in their inmost being, would desire anything LESS than this!

We are to cast down the VAIN imaginations , taking them captive to the OBEDIENCE of Christ. What was that obedience? To suffer and die on the Cross...so that the COMFORTER can lead us back to our "child", who would never think of questioning His love. A child knows his Parents voice and trusts them implicitly...and that NO weapon could be formed to defeat him.

**heb13-13** · 12-04-2011, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by RAM

Good morning to you my good friend!

I find your use of an undefined "something" to represent an implied evil to be vaguely disturbing.

The battle between God and sayt
I don't like the idea of receiving a foreign "thing" into my

A lie or a deception of some kind. "The apple is good for you, it looks good, tastes good and will make you like God".

You duality is too stark fro me. If the battle is between God and Satan, what hope is there? How could I, a mere mortal, discern between the two supernatural beings?

Because we are supernatural beings, too. That is what this Dumbo thread is about. We are capable of receiving wisdom from this world or wisdom from above and acting upon it. Remember the faith chapter of Hebrews 11. Ephesians 6, the armor of God? What is it for if not to do battle against the powers of darkness. How can we do battle if we are not given wisdom from above to discern?

Martin Luther likened the soul to a beast of burden with no choice about who would mount it - God or Satan. That seems reasonable if we beging with the assumption that we are the "prize" in a battle between two supernatural beings with knowledge and wisdom far beyond anything we could comprehend.

We have a choice who "mounts us" (to use your words).

And that's the rub. How does a person acquire such discernment, given that there is no objectively verifiable way to confirm anything?

The idea that there are "evil spirits masquerading as angels of light" plays directly into the ancient human fears and superstitions based on ignorance. Every culture and religion has means of "appeasing" the "evil spirits." Why would or should I think that they are real?

There are three ways you can know of Satan and his work. You can read about him in the Bible. The Bible reveals much about him. You can know about him through personal experience while following the Lord or not following the Lord. If you are following the Lord you don't seek him out and I don't know of many people not following the Lord that do seek him out (or realize they are). There are people (Satan worshippers) that do directly seek him out. And thirdly, by reading about personal experiences of other believers.

When I was 3 months old in the Lord, I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. That night in Yokohama, Japan I went to bed with great peace and calm and a very happy heart. I felt like I had been drenched in a pool of love as the Spirit of God ministered to me. I knew even more that I wanted to tell my fellow sailors and marines about Jesus. That night, I was laying in bed, meditating on the things that took place that day and talking to the Lord. I was laying on top of my blanket not yet having gotten under the covers.

At the bottom of my feet, I felt something but could not see it. It was hovering over my feet and moving slowly upwards towards the rest of my body. I had known the Lord's presence and this was not a holy presence. It was bringing fear with it. It moved up my body and I could not move and I could not talk. Once it got to my head, my head starting shaking violently. Inside, I was running to Jesus. The more I spoke His name internally, the more it seemed I was able to speak His name more loudly (still internally). All I did was speak the name of Jesus over and over and at a certain point, I sat up with force and yelled his name and I literally felt this presence flee with through the window. I actually could feel in the spirit which direction it took. Out the window! That was my first experience as a Believer with the supernatural. I praised and worshipped the Lord and marvelled the rest of the night at the power in His name.

I believe I experienced the powers of darkness many times when I was into drugs before I became a Christian. I did not know what I was doing putting myself into a passive state. I was inviting the powers of darkness into my life and did not know it.

So, there are 3 ways that I know of. There may be more and I would love to hear other people's experiences. I have had other experiences, since then however I don't go looking for them. It just comes with the territory and the battle.

Don't worry my friend, I undersand your words and heart on this matter. From your point of view, there are real threats by real spiritual beings out there.

Yes, there are Richard. Many deny it and many just don't understand. Probably the biggest question that most people have on earth can be put into one word. Why?

Why does man suffer. He is born to trouble... Job 5:7. Job thought his suffering was senseless yet understood it later, very well.

We all know evil is an objectively verifiable phenomenon in this world except to the totally deluded and blinded person. But I believe this evil has a source.

There is a ruling purpose that lies behind the evil in this world. Evil is not random as many might think. I believe it is part of a much larger scheme though it may seem unorchestrated. The Bible does not hide at all the evidence of evil or the fierce force that lies behind it. The Bible declares that God has an enemy, an adversary: Satan. He is a supernatural being of great power and intelligence, though he is no equal for God Almighty or those who run into their God as their strong TOWER. Yes, little puny human beings who have made the Lord their trust and shield, can withstand the powers of darkness in the mighty name of Jesus. Meaning that no matter what happens to them in this life, their mind and will cannot be bent to turn their worship or allegiance from God to Satan who is behind all idols in this world. A Christians body may even be tortured and killed, but not their soul. Man can withstand the powers of darkness and not bow the knee to Baal. Like Meshach, Shadrach and Abednego said, "Our God is able to save us, but if He does not, we will still not serve they gods...." I'm sure you know the scripture reference.

Dan 3:16-18
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

There was something behind Nebuchadnezzar using him as an agent to turn men away from the Living God. This is Satan's primary role in this world, to use any means possible to turn men away from God Almighty. He is not only God's enemy but man's enemy, too. We don't need to fear him but we should know what can be known about him. And that means all the biblical revelation as it pertains to him. I said in another post that Paul the Apostle said, "We are not ignorant of his devices". As a former military man I know the first rule of warfare is to know your enemy. Well, the first rule of intelligent warfare.

Otherwise, you won't know how to resist your enemy. If you don't know who he is, and what he intends to do or how he goes about it, then it's open season on you.

People (Christians) have told me that we don't have to study the Devil, yet I totally disagree with that. Because an accurate knowledge of him will not harm you in any way. However, I think a lack of knowledge of him may put one in grave danger to attack. He can interfere with you and your family to you total confusion. And of course he always prefers not to be the chief suspect. He prefers to be hidden. By the way, he very actively promotes ignorance about himself. He has most people believing that he does not exist. He will go to almost any length to continue to promote this idea to man. He works much more effectively when people don't believe he even exists.

The Bible directly exposes Satan and his tactices for our sakes. The Bible gives us all the understanding that we need to stand our ground and resist effectively so that we may overcome.

Most new Christians don't need the details, but rather an overview of the supernatural (angels and demons). Much like an army general needs to see the whole picture from a high level. He needs to see where his men are and where the enemies' men are and all the resources that are at their disposal before plotting a strategy.

But how would we discern them in something like the Dumbo Dream? It led directly to a strong faith in Christ. And it, along with its consequent discovery of the Bible Wheel, is the strongest evidence that keeps me engaged with Christianity as a possibility. I can't just toss it all out because I have too much evidence that "something supernatural" is going on with it.

Of course, I would not toss it out. You don't have any reason that has been revealed to you to toss it out. And it did lead you to a strong faith in Christ.

But this reminds me of an encounter I had on the Jews for Judaism forum some years ago. I was tryhing to share the Bible Wheel with them and they knew that I knew that they knew the meaning of the Hebrew letters, so they could not deny that a significant pattern exists on the Bible Wheel. Therefore, one of the solutions was to suggest that it was a Satanic deception designed to trick the Jews into believing in Jesus and giving up the Torah. Other's said that it was a test from HaShem - God Himself - to see if they would "keep the faith" of Judasim despite the evidence.

It's good to remember my old battles for Christ and the Bible. My confidence knew no limits in those days. One member on Jews for Judaism suggested that Jerome had designed the Bible Wheel and I shredded his arguments, or so I thought. I wonder how I would look to me now? They deleted all those threads, but I saved them. Perhaps I'll start a thread to review my old arguments to see how they hold up.

I would like to read that one. I did not know about it. I read your entire debate that you saved from the Catholic forum. That was something else!!! You did a great job.

Yes, of course, but that has nothing to do with you, me, or the topic at hand, right? I mean, we're both sufficiently mature now, I would think, to know the foolishness of exchaning a birthright for a pot of stew!

Sure I agree with you, but you would be surprised. If you read my story about Prem Pradhan in the "Demon" thread, he had a brother "in the Lord" that was his "right hand man" and worked with him in the ministry for 20 years. One particular day, he mentioned to Prem that maybe he should put all the financial records in his name (not Prem's but his) since Prem is currently being hunted down. Prem was on the run at this time. Well, Prem had been sent about 120,000.00 dollars by many Christians from around the world that heard about him. He was going to build a school and orphanage with it. Prem told me that it seemed like a good idea and did it. Later, that "brother" took off with all the money and was never seen again. Prem confided in me that he always prayed about everything and asked the Lord for advice but on this one occasion, he did not pray.

I well remember what it felt like to have those beliefs. There were times when I felt the "heebie jeebies" and interpreted my feelings as a measure of an objective fact. But now I see that most of what people take as the ability "to discern what comes from the Enemy" is really just their fears and superstitions. Have you ever watched or heard Bob Larson? He was my favorite Christian dingbat back when I was a Christain. I would listen to him rant and rave about demons everywhere and how he needed your money for his exorcism ministry. A real nutjob. But he "knew" demons were real. Please don't misunderstand, I'm not classing you with him! All I'm saying is that the belief in demons opens the door to all sorts of nuttiness because nothing can be confirmed.

Well, I never could listen to him to tell you the truth. But, I want to assure you that you can have knowledge about demons and their workings and not be a ding-bat. Gee, at least I hope so.

Actually, I doubt we will ever "see" in this life if demons are real or not (in any verifiable fashion).

Well, they are working hard to make your wish come true.

I think giving Satan the ability to create synchronicies is investing him with too much godliness.

If Satan can fool us humans into thinking he is god by performing great miracles and synchronicities and sucb, then what hope is there? The Bible can't help because it is subject to interpretation. And it sounds lke you are saying we can't really trust our own judgment or experiences so I don't understand how there could be any hope in the worldview that you are sharing. How do you know that you are not one of the deceived? Think of all the followers of Harold Camping. I bet if you sat down with any one of them and talked about anything but Harold Camping, you would have concluded you were with a genuine, saved Christian.

I will have to continue this later, Richard. I will tell you a story about a young man where the powers of darkness were skilled at arranging "events" and "coincidences". It's way past my bedtime and I will probably be jello tomorrow.

It's been good talking with you and thank you for allowing me to continue with you,
Have a wonderful day tomorrow,
Rick

You got that right. And it is worse than an "embarrassment" since lives are at stake.

Great chatting,

Richard

**kathryn** · 12-05-2011, 08:39 AM

The Bible declares that God has an enemy, an adversary: Satan. He is a supernatural being of great power and intelligence, though he is no equal for God Almighty or those who run into their God as their strong TOWER.

Hi Rick....I don't see satan as God's adversary. He has been given as ours, for a period of time, to refine us....but he's never been Gods adversary. All of typology has a two-sided coin aspect to it, ie: the serpent/Son of God. "If I be lifted up (as the serpent/Son of God)..I will draw(drag) ALL men to myself. This "lifting up" concept of the two, is found in the story of Joseph imprisoned with the Baker and Butler. Before the "feast" of Pharoah could take place, the Baker's (as in "hells kitchen" where we are purified in the "fire"/oven) HEAD and the Butler(cupbearer) HEAD had to be "lifted up".

The Baker was then hung...the Butler restored to his original position. (in the garden/Mind)..same type as Haman and Judas. (man of sin...our carnal nature/mind). The NT type is the found in the story of the tares/wheat planted in the "garden". They were planted as seed....and then then harvested when the HEADS had formed. The tares are burnt, the wheat taken into the "Barn".

Adam/Eve...while made in the image of God, still had to have God's wisdom fully consummated in them. They were still in an incomplete state in the "garden". (which is an aspect of the Mind of Christ) The fruit of the Tree of Good and Evil had to consummated with the Tree of Life.
Wisdom is a "serpent" that we must consume. The Temple is constructed from the inside-out. When the process is completed in the Baptism of Fire...the Son of God is restored (raised as the two loaves of leavened bread) is raised from "hell/kitchen/oven) to His original position. Remember Martha in the kitchen?

**debz** · 12-05-2011, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by kathryn

The Bible declares that God has an enemy, an adversary: Satan. He is a supernatural being of great power and intelligence, though he is no equal for God Almighty or those who run into their God as their strong TOWER.

Hi Rick....I don't see satan as God's adversary. He has been given as ours, for a period of time, to refine us....but he's never been Gods adversary. All of typology has a two-sided coin aspect to it, ie: the serpent/Son of God. "If I be lifted up (as the serpent/Son of God)..I will draw(drag) ALL men to myself. This "lifting up" concept of the two, is found in the story of Joseph imprisoned with the Baker and Butler. Before the "feast" of Pharoah could take place, the Baker's (as in "hells kitchen" where we are purified in the "fire"/oven) HEAD and the Butler(cupbearer) HEAD had to be "lifted up".

The Baker was then hung...the Butler restored to his original position. (in the garden/Mind)..same type as Haman and Judas. (man of sin...our carnal nature/mind). The NT type is the found in the story of the tares/wheat planted in the "garden". They were planted as seed....and then then harvested when the HEADS had formed. The tares are burnt, the wheat taken into the "Barn".

Adam/Eve...while made in the image of God, still had to have God's wisdom fully consummated in them. They were still in an incomplete state in the "garden". (which is an aspect of the Mind of Christ) The fruit of the Tree of Good and Evil had to consummated with the Tree of Life.
Wisdom is a "serpent" that we must consume. The Temple is constructed from the inside-out. When the process is completed in the Baptism of Fire...the Son of God is restored (raised as the two loaves of leavened bread) is raised from "hell/kitchen/oven) to His original position. Remember Martha in the kitchen?

We fight the battle "within" to be equipped to fight the enemy "without" -- I do agree with a lot of what Rick is saying, but the enemy doesn't come after most Christians because they really aren't a threat to the Kingdom. He does, however, come after the ones who are. I posted in the "coin in the mouth of the fish" thread something related to all this...surprised nobody has commented on that yet, because it's really very interesting...

http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...a-fish)/page19

**kathryn** · 12-05-2011, 09:36 AM

Good Morning Deb...I too agree with alot of what Rick is saying too. I'm just trying to demonstrate where the plummet line lands in the "small beginning".
Without understanding this...and how powerless satan really is within us...we won't know what we're fighting "without". (or how)
We have to understand who and what the enemy is .

The Battle of MIDWAY, in the 2nd WW, is an extremely prophetic battle that reveals this "midway or midst" concept, in the crossing of the Jordan. The spiritual battle in the heavenlies is fought in the "midst" or midway point of the "crossing". This concept is ALL through scripture in typology.

The battle was won by the U.S. because they were able to break the code of the enemy.

Until we realize he is nothing more than a "Wizard of Oz"....hiding behind his screen (of lies or VAIN (dead) imaginations) pulling the levers, and using smoke and mirrors to masquerade as an "angel of light"....we can't take our inheritance back, (dominion over the FOULS (mind sets) of the AIR) Until then..he remains the "prince of the power of the air". This is battle that takes place in the SECOND heaven (Holy Place) or the midway point between the Throne and earth.

Adam's dominion which was lost at the "fall" has been restored by the 2nd Adam....but it is the 2nd Adam IN and THROUGH us, His Corporate Son, who takes back the "footstool" of earth, and gives it to the Father.
We MUST know how to break the code of the enemy....and that is the revelation of who he is: nothing more than a toothless little wizard.
I certainly wasn't trying to diminish the evil that has been released on earth through him.

**debz** · 12-05-2011, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by kathryn

Good Morning Deb...I too agree with alot of what Rick is saying too. I'm just trying to demonstrate where the plummet line lands in the "small beginning".
Without understanding this...and how powerless satan really is within us...we won't know what we're fighting "without". (or how)
We have to understand who and what the enemy is .

The Battle of MIDWAY, in the 2nd WW, is an extremely prophetic battle that reveals this "midway or midst" concept, in the crossing of the Jordan. The spiritual battle in the heavenlies is fought in the "midst" or midway point of the "crossing". This concept is ALL through scripture in typology.

The battle was won by the U.S. because they were able to break the code of the enemy.

Until we realize he is nothing more than a "Wizard of Oz"....hiding behind his screen (of lies or VAIN (dead) imaginations) pulling the levers, and using smoke and mirrors to masquerade as an "angel of light"....we can't take our inheritance back, (dominion over the FOULS (mind sets) of the AIR) Until then..he remains the "prince of the power of the air". This is battle that takes place in the SECOND heaven (Holy Place) or the midway point between the Throne and earth.

Adam's dominion which was lost at the "fall" has been restored by the 2nd Adam....but it is the 2nd Adam IN and THROUGH us, His Corporate Son, who takes back the "footstool" of earth, and gives it to the Father.
We MUST know how to break the code of the enemy....and that is the revelation of who he is: nothing more than a toothless little wizard.
I certainly wasn't trying to diminish the evil that has been released on earth through him.

YES! Great explanation!

Therer's a place "above the snake line" (similar to above timberline--I live in Rky Mtns, so this is familiar...) where they can't get to us if we're abiding there -- "Most Holy Place."

**heb13-13** · 12-05-2011, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by debz

We fight the battle "within" to be equipped to fight the enemy "without" -- I do agree with a lot of what Rick is saying, but the enemy doesn't come after most Christians because they really aren't a threat to the Kingdom. He does, however, come after the ones who are. I posted in the "coin in the mouth of the fish" thread something related to all this...surprised nobody has commented on that yet, because it's really very interesting...

http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...a-fish)/page19

Many are slumbering and asleep spiritually and have been taken to the prisoner's camp where they are "playing" church. They don't know they have been taken captive, because they think their captor is Jesus. See how subtle the enemy is? They are in a prisoner camp sitting out the war. They need to realize their captor is no friend, rise up and make a break for it and get back into the battle.

How can Satan be our adversary and not God's adversary. That does not make sense. If he is the adversary of God's children then what does that make him in relation to God? I believe the scriptures teach differently.

Our enemies are God's enemies. They were His enemies first before they were ours. We came into the picture, later. Please consider these things.

Act 9:5
And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Is it not the Prince of the Power of the Air that is working in the sons of disobedience?

Eph 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Acts 5:39
But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

Psa 74:22
Arise, O God, plead thine own cause: remember how the foolish man reproacheth thee daily.

Psa 74:23
Forget not the voice of thine enemies: the tumult of those that rise up against thee increaseth continually.

There are so many more verses that depict those that rise up against God and fight Him. "The spirit, that worketh in the children of disobedience."

If God has no enemies what is He doing here?

2Th 1:4
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

2Th 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

2Th 1:6
Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

2Th 1:7
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2Th 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

May the Lord give us all understanding,
Rick

**debz** · 12-05-2011, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by heb13-13

Many are slumbering and asleep spiritually and have been taken to the prisoner's camp where they are "playing" church. They don't know they have been taken captive, because they think their captor is Jesus. See how subtle the enemy is? They are in a prisoner camp sitting out the war. They need to realize their captor is no friend, rise up and make a break for it and get back into the battle.

A BIG, HEARTY, "AMEN" TO THAT BROTHER!!

**kathryn** · 12-05-2011, 10:02 AM

The "tree of Good and Evil"...is the "Tree of Life" which has been divided (like the waters of the Jordan, the ONE animal cut in half in the "cutting of the covenant") Everything has to be divided, before it can be fore it can merge or consummate into ONE.
God's image was divided(male/female), the firmament, the waters of the Jordan, etc. In the story of Noah and the ark...we see the type begin to merge as everything had to be "paired" before entering the ark. It reveals the perfecting process of the "double witness", which is the Voice of God (as ONE) coming through the "midst" of the division.

We see the final type, in the Tree of Life in Revelation 22...which is now standing in the midst of the River of Life....as well as BOTH sides of the river. When the end is threaded through the beginning, the 4 rivers (et Kol..all of creation) flow back into the ONE river , into the "garden".

Adam and Eve had to, in essence, consume this division or fruit of the tree of good and evil... (take it into their mind/Holy Place) in order that the Tree of Life..and waters of Living water, could flow through them. Satan is used as a tool to bring about the consummation. As we "consume the blood and flesh" of Christ....He in turn (as serpent/Son of God) is consuming our carnal nature. (the serpents curse was to crawl on its "belly" (cater to the "stomach" or flesh and EAT/consume the DUSt (Adam was taken from the dust of the earth).

When it's all completed....the wizard is "cast down" or flushed out of the Body....He is the divine poop, so to speak:-)) An eliminated toxin.

**kathryn** · 12-05-2011, 10:13 AM

How can Satan be our adversary and not God's adversary. That does not make sense. If he is the adversary of God's children then what does that make him in relation to God? I believe the scriptures teach differently.

It is GOD who sends the evil spirit to Saul (the personification of the Pentecostal church..or the "donkey" (the mixture of horse and mule) in the refining process.
He is God's TOOL. He's the UNcircumcised "High Priest"(or rod/penis in typology)...if you will....who has been trying to consummate..(rape) the virgin mind.(subconcious). He is confined, however, to the Holy Place (2nd heaven..the "air" our conscious mind...or the "dry" bed of the Jordan).
There is no means of entering the Holy of Holies through the Holy Place (soul realm/conscious mind). Only our High Priest can enter.(through the TWO sides or THIGHS of the western curtain/wall of the Tabernacle/Temple.