Demons

[Beck]

Exactly!! You got it. An accusatory spirit whispers his lies about God character to Job's wife. He already maligned God and Job face to face with God.

Same with Peter, a demonic spirit plants "suggests" strongly an idea to Peter's carnal mind. And Peter receives it as his thought.

You do know, don't you that not all of your thoughts are your thoughts?

Eventually, I would like to get continue down the road on this suject of demons.

Have a great week,
Rick

I've understood that already, but would Jesus need to cast out that evil spirit 'demon' out of Peter is what I'm driving at? Isn't these the same 'evil spirits, demons, devils, unclean spirits' that Jesus had casted out of many?

[Charisma]

Hi Beck,

There is only one Satan. He can be in only one place at a time.

but would Jesus need to cast out that evil spirit 'demon' out of Peter is what I'm driving at?

I don't believe so, because Satan is a predator. He's always moving on to the next victim. The type of him in Genesis 14:21 is hungry for souls.

When the gospel says that Satan had entered into Judas, it is clear that Satan didn't force Judas to betray Jesus. Judas had been tempted by the money on offer, and, had moaned about the money wasted when the alabastar box was broken. All that Satan did on that evening, in encouraging Judas, had been permitted by God the Father. John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power [at all] against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

When Jesus looked at Peter after Peter had upbraided the Lord for what He'd just shared with them, Jesus spoke to Satan, commanding him to shift into a subsidiary place (behind Him). Jesus explained to Peter what had been going on, but until after Pentecost, Peter had no power to resist it. Jesus then remarks that He had seen Satan fall as lightning from heaven. In other words, Jesus already saw Satan as a defeated foe in principle, even although Jesus still had work to do on the cross.

When it comes to demons, they, too, are subject to the name of Jesus, for the same reason. But not all demons have a permanent residence in a person, as we tend to think of as 'demon-possession', just as Satan doesn't inhabit just one person the whole time. He walks to and fro on the earth like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

[Beck]

Hi Beck,

There is only one Satan. He can be in only one place at a time.

I don't believe so, because Satan is a predator. He's always moving on to the next victim. The type of him in Genesis 14:21 is hungry for souls.

When the gospel says that Satan had entered into Judas, it is clear that Satan didn't force Judas to betray Jesus. Judas had been tempted by the money on offer, and, had moaned about the money wasted when the alabastar box was broken. All that Satan did on that evening, in encouraging Judas, had been permitted by God the Father. John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power [at all] against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

When Jesus looked at Peter after Peter had upbraided the Lord for what He'd just shared with them, Jesus spoke to Satan, commanding him to shift into a subsidiary place (behind Him). Jesus explained to Peter what had been going on, but until after Pentecost, Peter had no power to resist it. Jesus then remarks that He had seen Satan fall as lightning from heaven. In other words, Jesus already saw Satan as a defeated foe in principle, even although Jesus still had work to do on the cross.

When it comes to demons, they, too, are subject to the name of Jesus, for the same reason. But not all demons have a permanent residence in a person, as we tend to think of as 'demon-possession', just as Satan doesn't inhabit just one person the whole time. He walks to and fro on the earth like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Hi Charisma,

What would then be your understanding of 'fallen angels' as demons? I've come to the understanding that fallen angels should have been interpreted as fallen messengers. I discussed this Here.

There seems to be a connection that these which are bond in darkness. Darkness is used in the spiritual sence of lack of knowledge or the rejection of that knowledge as the truth. As Paul used it that they should not be as the children of the darkness (night). In this way it rather seems to indicate that they had a choice to be the children of the light or the children of the darkness. At one point (Eph 5:8) Paul told them that they were once in darkness, but know are the light in the Lord. To have no fellowship with the unfaithful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Are these fallen angels (demons) bond in the bottomless pit of darkness until judgment day? Is that why the demons that where called Legion asked Jesus was it not that day?

[Beck]

As Rick mentioned and I agree to that we move on in this discussion. So in my studying and gathering more info about demons I come across these connections.

• Demon equakes to spirit, unclean spirit(s), evil spirit(s) and devil(s).

• Unclean is symbolic of Goat, Swine, Frogs, and Lepers.

• Haunts denotes the Deep, Sea, Desert, Tombs and Mountains.

I also noticed that when Jesus spoke of the demons he then related them to unclean spirits and or devils in the KJV. So I gather that these are interchangeable and synonymous with man.

So one passage that deals with demons (unclean spirits) I would like for us to take a deeper look into is from Matthew 12 were Jesus enters the synagogue after his disciples plucked the ears of corn to eat on the sabbath. Jesus then answers the scribes and Pharisees question for a sign. The part I would like to deal with is Matthew 12:43-45

43When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

My first thought would be why had Jesus sudden change to speaking about unclean spirits as in answering their question of a sign? But as you read on we come to realize that the disciples wanted to know why Jesus was speaking unto them in parables?(Matthew 13:10) Jesus spoke the parables about Beelzebub and unclean spirits on the same day as He told that of the sower (Mt. 12:46; 13:1). The large amount of parabolic language used that day therefore prompted their question.


So to the meaning behind this parabolic story of the unclean spirits. First we notice that Jesus said to them, "Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation"

Careful reading indicates that 'the unclean spirit' is synonymous with the man, as a deaf demon refers to a deaf man in v. 22 of the same chapter. 'When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places...' Walking through a wilderness and deciding to return to one’s house is clearly language applicable to a man. This is all confirmed by the fact that Jesus is almost certainly alluding to a verse in the Septuagint version ( which was the Bible in common use in Christ’s time) at Proverbs 9:12 Septuagint version which is omitted. This verse clearly speaks of a man, not a spirit, '(the scorner of instruction) walks through a waterless waste, through a land that is desert, and with his hands garners barrenness'.


The 'spirit' often refers to the attitude of mind (e.g. Dt. 2:30; Prov. 25:28; Is. 54:6; 61:3; Ez. 18:31; Mk. 14:38; Lk. 2:40; 2 Cor. 2:13; 12:18; Eph. 4:23). An 'unclean spirit' may possibly refer to and unclean state of mind, which would fit the context in vs. 34-36. Because, as a man 'thinketh in his heart, so is he' (Prov. 23:7), the spirit would be synonymous with the man. Thus the parable would describe a man’s attitude of mind being cleansed and then his going into an even more degenerate state.

The man, representing the Jews, who would not heed the teaching of Christ, walked through 'dry places'. This may recall apostate Israel in the wilderness, who also 'tempted Christ' (1 Cor. 10: 9), thereby refusing to obey the teaching of Moses, who represented Christ (Dt. 18:18). God led Israel 'through the wilderness, through a land of deserts and of pits, through a land of drought, and of the shadow of death. This exactly recalls the language of Proverbs 9:12 in the Septuagint - 'through a waterless waste, through a land that is desert...barrenness'. Notice that Israel in the wilderness sought for the 'rest' of the kingdom, but never found it (Heb. 3:11). Similarly, the man in Matthew 12: 43 went through the dry wilderness 'seeking rest, and findeth none'.

The man decided to return to his house. This must have reference to v. 29, spoken shortly before, which says that the strong man of a house must be bound before the contents of his house can be taken away.

Thus the house to which the man returned was empty all the goods of the strong man had been taken away. This may have been symbolized by Jesus cleansing the temple (Mark. 11:15-17). He described the temple to the Jews as 'your house' (Matthew 23:38). The man, representing apostate Israel, would call the temple 'my house'. Christ’s cleansing of the temple at Passover time would have mirrored the Jewish custom, based on Exodus 12:19, of the firstborn sweeping the leaven from the house. Jesus cleansed the temple, His 'Father’s house' . Some comments drawn from this source

[heb13-13]

Hi Beck,

I don’t see how the spirit is ever likened to the mind or thoughts of a man. The mind is where the thoughts take place and this is pretty much laid out in the Scriptures. The Scriptures talk often of the 'thoughts of the mind', not 'thoughts of the spirit'. The Scriptures also talk about the heart and mind being interchangeable but I have never seen where the mind and spirit are interchangeable.

Also, the Bible talks about being vexed in the spirit but never vexed in the mind. Or the spirit of heaviness but not the mind of heaviness.

So an unclean spirit is not the same as an unclean mind in my opinion. If the Scriptures are going to talk about an unclean mind or wicked heart then it will say so. At least this is what I see and this is my understanding.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. (no mention of an unclean spirit, but rather thoughts of heart were evil).

Deu 15:9 Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the LORD against thee, and it be sin unto thee.

Nothing about 'wicked spirit', rather 'wicked heart', which is in keeping with heart and mind being interchangeable.

Jas 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
Nothing about evil spirits. Notice the plainness of speech.

Mar 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Not out of the spirit of man, but out of the heart come evil thoughts.

Jer 4:14 O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?

Again, nothing about wash thine spirit from wickedness. So, I cannot find anything about 'thoughts of the spirit' or 'thoughts from my spirit'. Now, let’s look at how certain spirits are described.

Gen 1:2 Spirit of God – We know that God is separate from man
Exo 28:3 I have filled with the spirit of wisdom
Num 5:14 spirit of jealousy come upon him
Num 24:2 spirit of God came upon him

Notice the similarities between Num 5:14 and 24:2. In each case an external spirit came upon someone.

2Ch 21:16 Moreover the LORD stirred up against Jehoram the spirit of the Philistines,
Next verse describes the spirit of the Philistines.
2Ch 21:17 And they came up into Judah, and brake into it, and carried away all the substance that was found in the king's house, and his sons also, and his wives; so that there was never a son left him, save Jehoahaz, the youngest of his sons.

Isa 28:6 spirit of judgement
Isa 29:10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
Isa 61:3 the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness
Hos 4:12 spirit of whoredoms hath caused them to err,
Hos 5:4 for the spirit of whoredoms is in the midst of them
Zec 12:10 spirit of grace and of supplications:
Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Luk 4:33 And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,
Luk 13:11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.
Notice in 13:12 that Jesus did not counsel her to 'think' differently, but rather 'loosed' her from the spirit of infirmity.

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, - a spirit, be it good or evil is evidently something that you must receive.

Act 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
What is the spirit of the world. It is many, many things and one thing we know from this verse is that the spirit of the world has nothing in common with the spirit of God.

2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
We can look at next our demons are separate from men. But, please share your thoughts first and whether you think when spirits are talked about it is referring to a man’s thoughts. I contend that evil spirits don’t like to be known but they knew that Jesus knew them. He had the discernment and they knew that they could not hide from Him. Some Believers have this kind of discernment and demons know it and they will manifest because they know that they are "seen".

Luk 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
Notice that you don’t rebuke thoughts and tell thoughts not to speak. If you want someone not to speak then you speak to them. Here it says, Devils came out crying. If it was thoughts then looking at the rest of the scriptures, thoughts would have been mentioned.

Mar 1:34 And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.
Why would Jesus cast thoughts out of people and then tell the thoughts not to speak? If thoughts were being cast out of people then these thoughts are not going to speak on their own, right? That would be kind of weird.

Deu 32:17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
They were not sacrificing unto thoughts. What they were sacrificing to were personalities in direct opposite of another personality, God.

We can look closer at the nature and character of these 'devils' next in the NT, if you like.
Rick

[heb13-13]

Hi Kathryn,

I thought I would start at the beginning and see where we diverge. I broke this down into a series of questions that you can probably answer with a very short response. In most cases you can answer Yes or No. If you answer No, can you please give a short explanation? Also, if you quote my statements it is much easier to read your responses.

Gen 1:26 -- In the beginning Adam was created in the image of God. He had a total innocence and a pure heart with no impure motives (holy and blameless).

Do you see this in the Bible? Do you believe it?

Gen 2:8-9,15-17 -- Was Adam given a choice to choose between the tree of life or the tree of death? Did God say "You shall surely die" if you eat of the tree of death? Now the hearts of Adam and Eve are tested.

Gen 3:1 -- Did Satan pervert and twist the Word of God? Compare what Satan said with what God said in Gen 2:16-17 (Indeed, has God said).

Gen 2:16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 3:2-3 -- Eve did not resist Satan's perversion of God's Word. Do you see this? Do you believe the "serpent" was Satan?

Gen 3:2
And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.


Did Eve change God's words by saying "nor touch it, lest you die?" Did God say "You shall surely die"? Now we come to a direct contradiction of the Word of God. Satan entices and tempts Adam and Eve with false words -- another doctrine.

Genesis 3:4 -- And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall NOT surely die:

Did God say in Genesis 2:17 "You shall surely die"?

Did Satan say "You surely shall not die"? (Hath God really said?)

Could this be the first doctrine of Satan in the Bible?

Is this like the doctrines of demons?

Do demons carry out the plans, thoughts and schemes of Satan?

Could a doctrine of Satan (or a doctrine of demons) be to speak contrary to what God says? (Hath God really said?).

Did Satan repudiate and contradict the words of God? [Please make note of this. Compare this with Acts 13:45-46.]

Act 13:45
But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
Act 13:46
Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Do you see how the spirit of Satan working in the "Children of Disobedience?"

Do you see how it worked in Eve?

Does the wrath of God come upon the Children of Disobedience? See Col 3:6. (Interesting correlation: Gen 3:6 and Col 3:6).


WHAT WAS THE TREE OF DEATH FROM WHICH EVE ATE?

Genesis 3:6 -- Notice, this tree was good for food, a delight to the eyes, and desirable to make one wise. Could this be the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the boastful pride of life?

Did Eve choose with her heart life or death?

Did God say "You shall surely die"?

Genesis 3:7 -- This is very important. Is sin and death NOW working in them? <--------------------- IMPORTANT

Was Eve led astray by a different spirit?

Did the serpent deceive Eve with another doctrine? Another gospel?

Could this be like receiving another Jesus? Read Gen 3:13.

The serpent had deceived (beguiled) Eve with another doctrine, right?

Do you lose the likeness and image of God by having a rebellious and impure heart?
Rom 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Did sin and death spread to all men through Adam?

Is sin and death the rebellious, cursed nature of Satan?

Every person is born with this same cursed nature of Satan. Therefore, every man walks in the image and likeness of Satan. His heart loves and lives for this cursed nature. He is in total darkness, and he does not know that Satan is his master and that death and judgement is upon him.

Colossians 3:5-9 -- Do the lusts of the flesh mentioned in verse 5 and verse 8 represent the character of God or the rebellious sin nature of Satan?

Does your Bible say that wrath and judgement are upon these things? God has not changed today, has He?

Isn't wrath and judgement still on those who practice these things?

Do you believe that this sin and death nature is the lusts and deeds of the flesh?

Adam and Eve obeyed Satan rather than God.

Do you become conformed to the image of the master whom you obey;
Rom 6:16

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Galatians 5:19 -- "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident...." The deeds of the flesh represent the cursed nature of Satan.
Some of the deeds of the flesh are:

• PRIDE.......so is Satan
• EGO...........so is Satan
• REBELLION......so is Satan
• SELFISHNESS....so is Satan
• HATE....so is Satan
• ANGER....so is Satan
• MURDER....so is Satan
• TEMPER.....so is Satan
• UNFORGIVENESS....so is Satan
• GOSSIP....so is Satan
• JEALOUSY....so is Satan
• ENVY....so is Satan
• STRIFE....so is Satan
• SLANDER....so is Satan
• CRITICISM....so is Satan
• IMMORALITY....so is Satan
• LYING...so is Satan

Are we on the same track so far? If not, where did we diverge? And don't worry, I don't intend or want to argue, I just want to see where we are at. It would be helpful to me and I hope what I wrote is helpful to you (as far as understanding where I am coming from).

Abundant blessings to you,
Rick

[kathryn]

Hi Kathryn,

I thought I would start at the beginning and see where we diverge. I broke this down into a series of questions that you can probably answer with a very short response. In most cases you can answer Yes or No. If you answer No, can you please give a short explanation? Also, if you quote my statements it is much easier to read your responses.sounds like fun, Rick! I like it much more, studying these things like this!

Gen 1:26 -- In the beginning Adam was created in the image of God. He had a total innocence and a pure heart with no impure motives (holy and blameless).

He was innocent, yes...but he didn't have an incorruptible heart. All things had to be divided, as part of the process of Covenant. It began with the light divided from the darkness...and all things, ALL things...including thoughts/spirit. Adam's fall was like the fall of David's Tabernacle. It had to "fall" in division, in order to be Glorified as One.

Do you see this in the Bible? Do you believe it?

I think I probably answered that above.


Gen 2:8-9,15-17 -- Was Adam given a choice to choose between the tree of life or the tree of death? Did God say "You shall surely die" if you eat of the tree of death? Now the hearts of Adam and Eve are tested.

Gen 3:1 -- Did Satan pervert and twist the Word of God? Compare what Satan said with what God said in Gen 2:16-17 (Indeed, has God said).

Gen 2:16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 3:2-3 -- Eve did not resist Satan's perversion of God's Word. Do you see this? Do you believe the "serpent" was Satan?

No...the Serpent is Wisdom. Wisdom had to be divided . Wisdom is the tree of Life...the divided tree, the knowledge of good and evil. Satan is a divided spirit that has no agreement with the Holy WHOLE/ONE Spirit. We eat of his fruit, until we finish the refinement stage. "WHEN I be lifted up...AS THE SERPENT/SON OF GOD...I will drag all men to myself

Gen 3:2
And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.


Did Eve change God's words by saying "nor touch it, lest you die?" Did God say "You shall surely die"? Now we come to a direct contradiction of the Word of God. Satan entices and tempts Adam and Eve with false words -- another doctrine.

Genesis 3:4 -- And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall NOT surely die:

Did God say in Genesis 2:17 "You shall surely die"?

Did Satan say "You surely shall not die"? (Hath God really said?)

Could this be the first doctrine of Satan in the Bible?

Is this like the doctrines of demons?

Yes, anything that twists and preverts the word of God, is a doctrine of demons.

Do demons carry out the plans, thoughts and schemes of Satan?

Yep.....and they spawn division...divided thoughts/spirits

Could a doctrine of Satan (or a doctrine of demons) be to speak contrary to what God says? (Hath God really said?).

Did Satan repudiate and contradict the words of God? [Please make note of this. Compare this with Acts 13:45-46.]

Act 13:45
But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
Act 13:46
Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Do you see how the spirit of Satan working in the "Children of Disobedience?"

Do you see how it worked in Eve? yep

Does the wrath of God come upon the Children of Disobedience? See Col 3:6. (Interesting correlation: Gen 3:6 and Col 3:6).


[B]yep again. And those children are the spawn of satan....the divided thoughts/spirits that inhabit God's children, until they KNOW HIM.....HIS UNCONDITIONAL, ALL SAVING LOVE FOR ALL OF MANKIKD.

WHAT WAS THE TREE OF DEATH FROM WHICH EVE ATE?
[/B]
Genesis 3:6 -- Notice, this tree was good for food, a delight to the eyes, and desirable to make one wise. Could this be the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the boastful pride of life?

Did Eve choose with her heart life or death?

she had no concept of life and death at this point in her developement! So no, she didn't choose with her heart. She chose from the nice looking fruit. She was choosing from her God-given gift of thirst for knowledge. They were set up Rick! It was all part of the process. This is where you need to study the Law. Alot of this stuff comes much clearer into focus. It's the most prophetic book in the bible, as it reveals what was fulfilled at the Cross.

Did God say "You shall surely die"?yes

Genesis 3:7 -- This is very important. Is sin and death NOW working in them? <--------------------- IMPORTANT

Was Eve led astray by a different spirit?

yes

Did the serpent deceive Eve with another doctrine? Another gospel? yes

Could this be like receiving another Jesus? Read Gen 3:13.yes

The serpent had deceived (beguiled) Eve with another doctrine, right? right

Do you lose the likeness and image of God by having a rebellious and impure heart?

No..because it is your VIRGIN subconcious mind where His image/likeness and name resides. The triune nature of the body/soul/spirit....is the outer court, Holy Place, Holy of Holies. Or...1st/2nd/3rd Heaven. The rebellion takes place (our battle with the Old man within us) in the Holy Place...the mid-ground..the soul. When the circumcised heart(High Priest) consummates with the subconcious(Holy of Holies)...there is no Holy Place or Outer Court (mortality) left. We are like David's Tabernacle...just the Holy of Holies; a fully integrated spirit/soul/body.


Rom 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Did sin and death spread to all men through Adam?

Is sin and death the rebellious, cursed nature of Satan?

yep...and I might add, "cursed because divided"


Every person is born with this same cursed nature of Satan.

[SIZE=2]We are born like Eve, innocent, with the faculty of receiving thoughts/spirit of both the HOLY SPIRIT/MIND and the cursed/divided mind. Therefore, every man walks in the image and likeness of Satan.


His heart loves and lives for this cursed nature. He is in total darkness, and he does not know that Satan is his master and that death and judgement is upon him.

well...that's what divided people do, until they re-mem-ber their AT-ONE-MENT

[/SIZE]
Colossians 3:5-9 -- Do the lusts of the flesh mentioned in verse 5 and verse 8 represent the character of God or the rebellious sin nature of Satan?

the rebellious sin nature of satan....his evil, divided thoughts that have inhabited our imaginations


Does your Bible say that wrath and judgement are upon these things? God has not changed today, has He?

THANK GOD, NO

Isn't wrath and judgement still on those who practice these things?

NO..Jesus took all the wrath on the Cross. His wrath now, is upon the things that keep His children from KNOWING Him....the evil, vain imaginations that would believe their Father could throw them in Hell for eternity....Give up on His children, when HE had to let them fall, in order to raise them up!

Do you believe that this sin and death nature is the lusts and deeds of the flesh?

[B]the "flesh" ...the unclean doctrines...eating food that hasn't been "pre- digested". Swine..cloven hooved (divided hoof...double mindedness that holds back the DOUBLE WITNESS AS ONE. We STAND on a divided foundation/hoof until we cast down the vain imaginations.
[/B]
Adam and Eve obeyed Satan rather than God.

Adam and Eve were following God's perfect will. Again...you need to study the Law in more depth Rick. It is all in there. And it was all fulfilled by Christ at the cross.

Do you become conformed to the image of the master whom you obey

; For a time.

Rom 6:16

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Galatians 5:19 -- "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident...." The deeds of the flesh represent the cursed nature of Satan.
Some of the deeds of the flesh are:

• PRIDE.......so is Satan
• EGO...........so is Satan
• REBELLION......so is Satan
• SELFISHNESS....so is Satan
• HATE....so is Satan
• ANGER....so is Satan
• MURDER....so is Satan
• TEMPER.....so is Satan
• UNFORGIVENESS....so is Satan
• GOSSIP....so is Satan
• JEALOUSY....so is Satan
• ENVY....so is Satan
• STRIFE....so is Satan
• SLANDER....so is Satan
• CRITICISM....so is Satan
• IMMORALITY....so is Satan
• LYING...so is Satan

Are we on the same track so far? If not, where did we diverge? And don't worry, I don't intend or want to argue, I just want to see where we are at. It would be helpful to me and I hope what I wrote is helpful to you (as far as understanding where I am coming from). Thanks Rick! PS..I hope yer not taking my yelling at ya about hell too seriously. Anything I write is coming from a mother hen heart that just wants to peck until she gets everyone laying and clucking in satisfaction Crikey...now that might sound condescending...but you're going to have to take my word on it, that it's anything but.

Abundant blessings to you,
Rick

[kathryn]

Rick..next time you write, could you just stick to either bold or otherwise...no color? It's impossible to work with, when you're replying. Some of my answers came out in blue...some in black..:-) thanks!

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Rick..next time you write, could you just stick to either bold or otherwise...no color? It's impossible to work with, when you're replying. Some of my answers came out in blue...some in black..:-) thanks!

Hint:

If you have trouble with too much text formatting, you can highlight the text you want to clear and hit the "Remove Format" button second from the left on the top line of the editor icons. It has two A's and a red X. I use it all the time.

[kathryn]

Time is eternity divided.
Death is Life divided.
Sin is a divided "Bull's eye". When you shoot your arrow and miss the bull's eye...you've sinned or missed the mark. (the intended plan and purpose)
Sin is a divided eye...or two eyes that don't focus.
Our hearts have been divided, our minds, our very atoms.