Demons

[Beck]

I would like to start a study in scripture concerning Demons. To start I know very little about this subject, but thought of a couple of scriptures that seem to indicate to me that 'demons' or 'devils' are written in scripture in one are two ways.

Let first gather from scripture that the word 'demon' has a meaning of 'spirit' in this case an 'unclean spirit, evil spirit or devils'. Strong's G1140 - daimonion which is translated in the KJV as devil.

The first group of scriptures I would place under the 'Possessed' category and the latter under the 'Captivity
' category. [comments are in brackets and blue]


Possessed:

Luke 8:27-30
27And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.
28When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
29(For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)
30And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
[Here this seems to be a case where a certain man had devils/demons inside of him, for which Christ drive them out of him]

Mark 9:17-22
17And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
18And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
19He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
20And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
21And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
22And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, having compassion on us, and help us.
25When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
[The disciples were unable to clean the child, so Jesus clean the child and said this kind can only come out by prayer and fasting.]



Captivity:

1 Timothy 4:1
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
[This doesn't seem to imply the same as possession. It seems to imply being deceived by those that speak evil and have evil doctrines.]

Ephesians 6:12
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
[In this sence the rulers (devils) of darkness are what we battle against, being set free from darkness]


Colossians 2:8
8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ. (NIV)
[Captive here seems to be by doctrine of men]


There are allot more scriptures to compare and if you feel the need to add them please feel free. I only put these in two categories, but there are also more. The whole purpose is to get a better understanding of what it going on and how it applies.

Your thought are welcomed,

[Rose]

Mark 9:17-22
17And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
18And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
19He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
20And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
21And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
22And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, having compassion on us, and help us.
25When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
[The disciples were unable to clean the child, so Jesus clean the child and said this kind can only come out by prayer and fasting.]

Hi Beck

The incident of demon possession in Mark has always struck me as odd because Jesus begins by reprimanding the people for being faithless when it clearly states that the disciples themselves could not cast out the boy's demons. Secondly, the father has to beg Jesus to have compassion on their son and cast out the demon. How did Jesus expect the father of the child to be able to cast the demons out when no one had been imbued with the power of the Holy Spirit yet?

All the best,
Rose

[Beck]

Hi Beck

The incident of demon possession in Mark has always struck me as odd because Jesus begins by reprimanding the people for being faithless when it clearly states that the disciples themselves could not cast out the boy's demons. Secondly, the father has to beg Jesus to have compassion on their son and cast out the demon. How did Jesus expect the father of the child to be able to cast the demons out when no one had been imbued with the power of the Holy Spirit yet?

All the best,
Rose

Thanks Rose for given your input i never thought of it that way. I thought of Luke mentioning a certain man and how that is used many times in Jesus parables. What could these mean if they are parables in a sence?

[Charisma]

Hi Beck,

You and others might like to look at this book online:

Written in 1921. Many case histories in it.
http://www.swartzentrover.com/cotor/...n/DALindex.htm

There is also youtube footage (and audio (not youtube)) of Jim Logan's ministry to Christians on this topic, which makes it controversial, but not necessarily false.

[heb13-13]

Hi Beck,

You and others might like to look at this book online:

Written in 1921. Many case histories in it.
http://www.swartzentrover.com/cotor/...n/DALindex.htm

There is also youtube footage (and audio (not youtube)) of Jim Logan's ministry to Christians on this topic, which makes it controversial, but not necessarily false.

Hi Beck,

The book that Charisma recommended is very good reading. I had misplaced the link, Charisma. Thank you for posting this.

Rick

[Rose]

Thanks Rose for given your input i never thought of it that way. I thought of Luke mentioning a certain man and how that is used many times in Jesus parables. What could these mean if they are parables in a sense?

Hi Beck

That's a good question, since it's pretty well known in our modern age that what people in the 1st century considered to be demonic possession is actually different types of psychological disorders that are curable in many cases with modern drugs. With that in mind I really don't see any parabolic value to those stories.

Rose

[Beck]

Hi Beck,

You and others might like to look at this book online:

Written in 1921. Many case histories in it.
http://www.swartzentrover.com/cotor/...n/DALindex.htm

There is also youtube footage (and audio (not youtube)) of Jim Logan's ministry to Christians on this topic, which makes it controversial, but not necessarily false.

Hi Charisma,

I appreciate that book link, but what can you bring to this discussion as I read through.
Just by quick readying the topics I came to this and thought that there might be a parallel with what Jesus said in Matthew 10:1 about casting out the unclean spirits, healing the sick.

The demon teareth him, throweth him into the fire, and into the water and driveth into violent, unreasonable rage (it may perchance be about some very trifling matter). The Garadene illustrates the destructiveness of evil spirits. He was forced to lacerate himself. Again, demons lack the sense of decency and inspire their victim to go nude, to wear no clothes. This fact may throw some light on nudity in modern dress and styles, as also the nudity in so-called high art, which is low art. Demons are unclean and lustful. Christ calls them "foul spirits," "unclean spirits." Thus they work in the realm of lust.

Here we have an evil spirit driving him to tare himself and remove his clothes. Is there a connection in this unclean spirit and nakedness symbolically?

[Beck]

Hi Beck

That's a good question, since it's pretty well known in our modern age that what people in the 1st century considered to be demonic possession is actually different types of psychological disorders that are curable in many cases with modern drugs. With that in mind I really don't see any parabolic value to those stories.

Rose

I would agree about the psychological disorders, but I'm not sure if that is even the case. It may well not be a parable, but I ask becasue Jesus said that they shall take up serpents and heal the sick. One could understand that the serpents is as Jesus called the Phraisees and the sick as those that are unto second death. Could the meaning of demons be the unclean spirit those rulers in high places? Someone like the pharisees?

[heb13-13]

Hi Beck

That's a good question, since it's pretty well known in our modern age that what people in the 1st century considered to be demonic possession is actually different types of psychological disorders that are curable in many cases with modern drugs. With that in mind I really don't see any parabolic value to those stories.

Rose

Hi Rose,

How does the "modern age" know that these "demonic" manifestations in the 1st century were different types of psychological disorders?

If modern drugs cured the individual today why do they have to stay on the drugs? Modern drugs only suppress the manifestations by suppressing the individual (bringing them into a passive state).

But, I would really like to know how someone in the "modern age" can confidently know that the people in the 1st century had psychological problems and not demonic possession? By the way, demon oppression and possession will give you psychological problems.

Now, I understand if these people in the modern age (whoever you are talking about) don't believe in demons and the powers of darkness then they will of course say that it is psychological. You can be an expert then in any century without having to time travel to it. You can just say all presumed demonic problems have always been psychological. Is this the reasoning of the "modern age" that you are talking about? That these people think Satan and demons are myths and so everything must either be psychological or chemical?

Thanks for your reply and glad you had a memorable Anniversay.
Rick

[Rose]

Hi Rose,

How does the "modern age" know that these "demonic" manifestations in the 1st century were different types of psychological disorders?

If modern drugs cured the individual today why do they have to stay on the drugs? Modern drugs only suppress the manifestations by suppressing the individual (bringing them into a passive state).

But, I would really like to know how someone in the "modern age" can confidently know that the people in the 1st century had psychological problems and not demonic possession? By the way, demon oppression and possession will give you psychological problems.

Now, I understand if these people in the modern age (whoever you are talking about) don't believe in demons and the powers of darkness then they will of course say that it is psychological. You can be an expert then in any century without having to time travel to it. You can just say all presumed demonic problems have always been psychological. Is this the reasoning of the "modern age" that you are talking about? That these people think Satan and demons are myths and so everything must either be psychological or chemical?

Thanks for your reply and glad you had a memorable Anniversay.
Rick

Hi Rick

People with mental disorders like schizophrenia were thought to be demon possessed up until modern science discovered it is caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. Someone who lived in the 1st century with schizophrenia would have been called demon possessed. Either demons cause mental disorders or they don't, you can't have it both ways and it seems that one by one modern science is discovering the biological causes many diseases that used to be attributed to demons. However modern drugs work in helping to alleviate the symptoms of psychological disorders, it does prove that they have a biological source and not a demonic one

Now I agree if someone believes in demonic oppression or possession it can actually cause psychological problems in that person because of all the fear and anxiety caused by the mind manifests itself in the body.

Thanks for the anniversary wishes

Rose