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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Where did you get the information about the 15 steps?

    It is interesting that Tri(15) = 120 = SMK (Samek) = Name of 15th letter [where Tri(n) denotes the nth triangular number].

    And the 15 Psalms of ascent begin at Psalm 120 = Samek = Tri(15).

    There are strong links here.
    EXACTLY!!!! I only quoted a very brief portion of this...that's why I have been *trying* to pique your interest so you would read it all...whether you agree with the rest of my beliefs or not! If you read it all, it will show how I came to these conclusions...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by debz View Post
    EXACTLY!!!! I only quoted a very brief portion of this...that's why I have been *trying* to pique your interest so you would read it all...whether you agree with the rest of my beliefs or not! If you read it all, it will show how I came to these conclusions...
    OK - I'll put it on my "to do" list.

    It's great having a To Do list. It's fun to check things off when done, and you have a record of everything you are doing. But the list keeps growing!
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  3. #23
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    Re: Looking for Dumbo

    Richard,

    In your Skeptics Column, you say the Bible feels more like historical fiction than historical fact. Having studied literature, I certainly understand this view, especially since tropes throughout a text or even a larger body of work are evidence of authorial design and, therefore, fabrication.

    Stephen E. Jones believes that history is a progression of events that are metaphorical and, therefore, designed by the mind of God. This view interprets both the Biblical account and the entire historical record, on the one hand, as factual and, on the other, metaphoric. Therefore, Jones' conclusion is closer to both/and rather than either/or. In fact, your own personal account related above seems to fit Jones' theory. Numbers are symbols and are essentially meaningless if they are not assigned to values. The progressive revelation you received of the meaning behind the given set of symbols in your dream suggests that your own life, as well as the lives of countless others, only has meaning when it is arranged in a series of metaphorical moments throughout your physical existence.

    What if the Biblical account is based on both historical fact and metaphorical symbolism? What if most of the events, whether supernatural or mundane, did happen? What if the events themselves mean something else--just like your dream, the numbers on the receipt, and your ultimate revelation that the numeric values and the name DuMBo suggests B'DawM Hu? The dream symbols by themselves were valueless and even nonsensical, but when arranged in a certain sequence and with the addition of other information, they became meaningful. Perhaps, it is this way with the events recounted in all history. We know that what happens to us within the context of time and space is historically factual and, therefore, true. We also have confidence that what happened to others in the same context earlier in the timeline is also historically factual and, therefore, true. However, if these things are likewise metaphoric, perhaps they are signs of something that is not only true, but more meaningful than what we know in this reality.

    I'll be the first to admit I don't have a complete answer for you on incidents in the Bible like Numbers 31, though I do think Jones does a pretty good job with the issue because he sees God as not only liable for allowing sin and death to enter the world in the first place, but also fully intent on restoring everyone and everything to a glorified state, a state which will more than compensate for the losses people have suffered throughout history. If this is indeed what happens, it would appear the law is being fulfilled by God on the part of everyone else.

    Your story is an incredible example of information outside yourself being given by something that is not limited by what we experience in a reality governed by physical laws. Though these events were supernatural, you, along with all the rest of us on this forum, have every confidence that it did happen and means something more than the information and events by themselves. Your story is both historically factual and metaphorically meaningful.

    Len

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenvande View Post
    Richard,

    In your Skeptics Column, you say the Bible feels more like historical fiction than historical fact. Having studied literature, I certainly understand this view, especially since tropes throughout a text or even a larger body of work are evidence of authorial design and, therefore, fabrication.

    Stephen E. Jones believes that history is a progression of events that are metaphorical and, therefore, designed by the mind of God. This view interprets both the Biblical account and the entire historical record, on the one hand, as factual and, on the other, metaphoric. Therefore, Jones' conclusion is closer to both/and rather than either/or. In fact, your own personal account related above seems to fit Jones' theory. Numbers are symbols and are essentially meaningless if they are not assigned to values. The progressive revelation you received of the meaning behind the given set of symbols in your dream suggests that your own life, as well as the lives of countless others, only has meaning when it is arranged in a series of metaphorical moments throughout your physical existence.

    What if the Biblical account is based on both historical fact and metaphorical symbolism? What if most of the events, whether supernatural or mundane, did happen? What if the events themselves mean something else--just like your dream, the numbers on the receipt, and your ultimate revelation that the numeric values and the name DuMBo suggests B'DawM Hu? The dream symbols by themselves were valueless and even nonsensical, but when arranged in a certain sequence and with the addition of other information, they became meaningful. Perhaps, it is this way with the events recounted in all history. We know that what happens to us within the context of time and space is historically factual and, therefore, true. We also have confidence that what happened to others in the same context earlier in the timeline is also historically factual and, therefore, true. However, if these things are likewise metaphoric, perhaps they are signs of something that is not only true, but more meaningful than what we know in this reality.

    I'll be the first to admit I don't have a complete answer for you on incidents in the Bible like Numbers 31, though I do think Jones does a pretty good job with the issue because he sees God as not only liable for allowing sin and death to enter the world in the first place, but also fully intent on restoring everyone and everything to a glorified state, a state which will more than compensate for the losses people have suffered throughout history. If this is indeed what happens, it would appear the law is being fulfilled by God on the part of everyone else.

    Your story is an incredible example of information outside yourself being given by something that is not limited by what we experience in a reality governed by physical laws. Though these events were supernatural, you, along with all the rest of us on this forum, have every confidence that it did happen and means something more than the information and events by themselves. Your story is both historically factual and metaphorically meaningful.

    Len
    Hey there Len,

    Welcome to our forum!



    I'm really glad that you stopped by to share you insights. I have really enjoyed our conversations an Facebook but this is a better format for in-depth discussions.

    Your insight that we are simultaneously living a literal and metaphorical existence makes a lot of sense to me. And when we see things in the "metaphorical" context, they are transformed and might make a new kind of sense that would never be possible when viewed only as "literal." So I really appreciate the alternate views you are offering. The only "big" challenge I see is taking the events like Numbers 31 as real in any sense at all. I just don't see how I could believe that the true God really commanded anything like that.

    You will note that I am simultaneously posting things that are evidence of some sort of supernatural communication, like the Dumbo Dream, as well as skeptical points of view like Why I Quit Christianity and An Evolutionary Explanation of the Bible Wheel. I am posting all the evidence both for and against the views I have held for the last couple decades. I invite you to comment on those threads. I find this to be the most exhilarating experience - I'm totally free to speak the truth as I see it. I no longer feel trapped by religious rules or threats of being ostracized by Christians or by God. I have nothing to lose. No religious or intellectual inhibitions. Whether God and Christianity is true or false, this is the only path that would ever prove it to me.

    The posting of the Dumbo Dream has freed me from the last "secret" that I was afraid to share with the world. I couldn't share it with Christians because they'd go all apoplectic on me about the occult, and I really didn't want to share it with skeptics since they'd probably think I was nuts. But now I am free. The evidence is the evidence. The strange thing is that it seems to be pointing in two directions at once!

    Again, I'm really glad you stopped by to share you wisdom, and I look forward to discussing this more. If I can find a little time I plan on writing an article about how I became a Christian in which I will share a few more "supernatural" stories that I have always thought were examples of God talking to me like in the Dumbo Dream.

    All the best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #25
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    Richard,

    Thanks for your compliments regarding my input. It's nice being able to share with people who are 1) on a similar path, 2) able to negotiate differences, and 3) academically and intellectually curious about spiritual matters.

    Sorry if I violated any Bible Wheel forum protocols in my first official post. I understand the need to keep discussion of this level as focused as possible, so I'll make sure to stay within the bounds of the theme this time.

    The corresponding numeric and alphabetic sequences given to you in the dream have had me thinking the last 48 hours. It seems the word "Dumbo" can be interpreted also as "DawM BO" (blood + to enter). Put this together with the beginning of the woman's question and you have "Are you looking for blood to enter?" Also, Dahlet-Mem-Bet-Aleph translates numerically to 4-13-2-1. Reduce the 13 to a 4 (this is the way it works in Pythagorean numerology at least), and you come out with the numbers given to you in the dream in reverse order: 1-2-4-4 vs. 4-4-2-1. Though I'm not following what you mean by the evidence seems to be pointing in two different directions at once (the dream? the Wheel?), your view does seem to be corroborated by these reversed number sequences.

    Len

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenvande View Post
    Richard,

    Thanks for your compliments regarding my input. It's nice being able to share with people who are 1) on a similar path, 2) able to negotiate differences, and 3) academically and intellectually curious about spiritual matters.

    Sorry if I violated any Bible Wheel forum protocols in my first official post. I understand the need to keep discussion of this level as focused as possible, so I'll make sure to stay within the bounds of the theme this time.

    The corresponding numeric and alphabetic sequences given to you in the dream have had me thinking the last 48 hours. It seems the word "Dumbo" can be interpreted also as "DawM BO" (blood + to enter). Put this together with the beginning of the woman's question and you have "Are you looking for blood to enter?" Also, Dahlet-Mem-Bet-Aleph translates numerically to 4-13-2-1. Reduce the 13 to a 4 (this is the way it works in Pythagorean numerology at least), and you come out with the numbers given to you in the dream in reverse order: 1-2-4-4 vs. 4-4-2-1. Though I'm not following what you mean by the evidence seems to be pointing in two different directions at once (the dream? the Wheel?), your view does seem to be corroborated by these reversed number sequences.

    Len
    Hey there Len,

    I really appreciate your input. I haven't ever really "brainstormed" with anyone else about the symbols in the dream, and now you and debz are both offering up insights. I find this very stimulating.

    And it's a funny place to be, because the Dumbo Dream played a "key" role as an intellectual anchor in my faith. Sometimes I felt I had an "unfair advantage" because I could dismiss doubts by thinking about the ways God had talked to me in this and other dreams and synchronicities (which I hope to document soon).

    And don't ever hold back for fear of "digressing" to some off-topic point. That's one of the best things about these conversations. You never know where they are going to lead. And if it get's too far off topic, we can just split off a new thread. Nothing could be easier.

    Now as for you suggestion - the idea of "entrance" in the BO of DawM BO makes perfect sense in terms of the "key" = 528 = Maphte'ach (opener) and the dominance of Dalet and it's corresponding number 4 in 44 since Dalet means "Door!" So there is a lot there, and indeed, there is much more because the first occurrence of of the words door and blood are found in Genesis 4 in conjunction with the first birth the first death. There is always blood with birth and it is common with death - the two universal DOORS by which each person enters and exist this world. I talk about this in detail here.

    The blood of Christ is linked to the new birth. He is the Door. The symbology is exceedingly powerful and profound. And it's numinous to me because I received it in a dream that was confirmed by a stunning synchronicity and that led to an amazing body of discoveries that remain as solid and striking as the day I first discovered them.

    I searched the Bible for any occurrence of "Dawm Bo" and did not find that exact construction, but I did find this:
    Ezekiel 33:3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people; 4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head. 5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him [DawMU BO]. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
    That's pretty close. And it "rings bells" in my mind. It's on Spoke 4, Dalet. And I have two synchronicities calling out to me and telling me it is significant. First, look at the verse number. Today - Nov 29 - is day number 333. It is the anniversary of my marriage with Rose which is the subject of Rose's thread Our Wedding Synchronicity which she posted this morning. And a very similar verse was brought to my attention yesterday to justify her attack on my for not simply accepting the Bible and Christianity:

    Quote Originally Posted by inquisitive View Post
    Why any "Christian" would stay on this forum to just 'shoot the breeze' is totally unscriptural, in and of itself but if one is to witness to a backslider, they'd only use The Word - the only words that Christians base their faith on and in. Pro 3:5-7 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

    Eze 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. [But how many times does He instruct us to warn? Titus 3:10,11]

    Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

    2Jn 1:9-11 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine/teachings of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine/teachings of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine/teachings, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
    If I were not open to the truth, this may have frightened me if I thought that I was deceitfully leading people to damnation by not using the Bible Wheel and Dumbo Dream to "convert them" from their evil ways, so their blood would be on my head. But I know better because if God and the Bible are really true, then that truth will shine of it's own accord, and the best thing I can do is get out of the way so I'm not blocking the light. And so another part of me wonders if this whole adventure of rejecting the faith is really God's mysterious way of getting me out of the picture so people can enter in through the door that opens with the key I was given. If so, I'm very thankful since I got sick and tired of walking around with that heavy revelation on my back all the time.

    Now it's in the open, and I think this is the only way it could ever have been really understood because Christians have closed their minds to reality and truth and opted rather for mindless dogmas that they have received from people who received mindless dogmas from people who ... And now they have quit thinking altogether! They have lost their minds and couldn't see the truth of God no matter how it is presented.

    The interpretation of anything depends on context. Our friend inquisitive posted that passage to tell Christians that they should just "warn" me and not engage me intellectually, but now I can look at the same verse as powerful confirmation that I am being synchronistically"called" to open up all the more the doors that have been opened for me. Their blood will be on my head if I fail to speak the truth as I see it! Each person is a "prophet of God" because each person emerges from this cosmos and is an expression of its essence as much as any other.

    Wow ... it's getting hot in here (synchronistically speaking!) -

    So now I am encouraged to open the door a little wider. Here are some of the notes I made on the morning of November 24, 1990 when I had the Dumbo Dream. The spiral was my sign for elements taken from dreams:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The fact that Dumbo was an Elephant made me think of the Hierophant card of Crowley's Tarot deck, which was confirmed again by the appearance of the number 16 in 528 = 16 x 33 because the Hierophant corresponds to the 16th path on the Tree of Life, connecting the Second Sephirah Chokmah (Wisdom) to the Fourth Sephirah Chesed (Mercy). Recall that 528 = 12 x 44 is the "Mystic Number" of the 32nd Path conncecting Asiah (Physical Reality) to Yesod (the Spiritual Foundation).

    Here is what the wiki says about the hierophant:
    A hierophant is a person who brings religious congregants into the presence of that which is deemed holy. The word comes from Ancient Greece, where it was constructed from the combination of ta hiera, "the holy," and phainein, "to show." In Attica it was the title of the chief priest at the Eleusinian Mysteries. A hierophant is an interpreter of sacred mysteries and arcane principles.
    The word "hierophant" is from the Greek ieros (holy) and phanos (to show). And here's some more info [source]:
    Feminist theologian Susan Haskins has observed that by the end of the second century, the early church father Tertullian, amazed that the women of the Gnostic sects were accorded the right to discuss religion, exorcise, heal, and baptize, wrote in opposition to the practices that (in the orthodox Christian churches) women were forbidden to speak in church, baptize, or offer the communion. In other words, women were not to usurp men's tasks. Eventually only Christian men would serve as priests, bishops, and popes, but in Gnostic churches women, even today, serve as hierophants, the equivalent of bishop in the Roman Catholic Church. In ancient Greece, a hierophant was someone who proclaimed and explained ancient sacred rites of worship or who interpreted sacred mysteries. Some modern Gnostics consider that Jesus was a hierophant, inasmuch as he imparted mysteries.
    Imagine my surprise when I started studying Greek gematria a couple years later and found this identity:

    Hierophant (Ιεροφάντης) = 10 + 5 + 100 + 70 + 500 + 1 + 50 + 300 + 8 + 200 = 1244
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
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  7. #27
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    Amazing stuff! Richard, thanks for sharing this. Makes the hair on my neck stand on end.

    And Len, just wanted to say welcome! I studied Levitical Law under Stephen E. Jones. IMHO , he's the most well-rounded teacher I've ever encountered. Looking forward to conversing with you.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathryn View Post
    Amazing stuff! Richard, thanks for sharing this. Makes the hair on my neck stand on end.
    Mine too! And you won't believe what I have to share in my next post!

    Quote Originally Posted by kathryn View Post
    And Len, just wanted to say welcome! I studied Levitical Law under Stephen E. Jones. IMHO , he's the most well-rounded teacher I've ever encountered. Looking forward to conversing with you.
    I was going to introduce you two since you both have studied under Stephen E. Jones.

    Kathryn, meet Len. Len, Kathryn.

    I'm going to have to check into his writings as time permits. He has been brought to my attention more than once.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  9. #29
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    While having my anniversary dinner with Rose at the Red Lobster this evening, I was reflecting on the Dumbo Dream and I had a sudden new realization. A critical piece of information was missing because of the particular version of the Tarot that I was using at the time I had the dream.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is the page of my journal from the morning of November 24, 1990 when began analyzing the Dumbo Dream. I was looking at various ways to write the product 12 x 44 = 528 = 3 x 4 x 4 x 11 = 16 x 33. Look at the fourth line of associations that that begins with 16 x 33 in the page above:

    16 x 33 ......16 = Hierophant = Elephant - Dumbo - DM - 44

    Here is what I was thinking: I had looked up the meaning of the number 44 and found it was the value of DM (dawm, blood) in Hebrew, and noted that these were the first two consonants in Dumbo. So I felt there was a connection there. I made the association with the Hierophant card of the Tarot for two reasons. First, I had just discovered that 528 was the "Mystic Number" of the 32nd Path of the Tree of Life, so I was looking to see if there were any other correlations along that line and found that the 16th Path corresponds to the Hierophant. I then felt that this was confirmed because the Hierophant in the Crowley deck I was using had two elephants on either side flanking the Hierophant:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is why I made the 16 Path = Hierophant = Elephant - Dumbo association. But there was a crucial piece of information missing from this card, and I never noticed it because this was the only Tarot deck that I studied before I became Christian and burned all my occult books and other materials, including my Tarot deck. And since I "never looked back" over all these years since then, I had no idea what I had missed. I didn't even notice it in my last post when I was writing about the Hierophant card. I only discovered it tonight while having dinner with Rose.

    The traditional Hierophant card was much more Christian than anything Crowley could have tolerated because he was deeply scarred by his fundamentalist Christian upbringing. This card was traditionally known as the "Pope" or the "High Priest." This fits perfectly with the fact that it corresponds to Vav, the Sixth Hebrew letter which means "nail" or symbolically "to connect." It is the essence of the name "Levi" which means "to connect to me" and is the name of the archetypal Biblical priest who function was to "connect" the people of Israel to their God, or more generally, Christ as High Priest and mediator between heaven and earth. Here is what the traditional card looks like. Look at what is between his feet:
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    THE KEYS OF KINGDOM OF HEAVEN given to Peter by Christ in Matthew 16, corresponding to the 16th Path on the Tree of Life, the Hierophant card:
    Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
    I only discovered this tonight, yet 21 years ago I had connected all these ideas on the morning I had the Dumbo Dream.

    Now look again at where I discovered the Key (Maphte'ach) = 528 in Scripture:
    Isaiah 22:22 And the key (528) of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
    And recall again the meaning of the Key = 12 x 44 ==> DM (44) x HUA (12) = HIS BLOOD, and this brings us back to the foolishness of the Gospel, so aptly hidden under the name "Dumbo" -
    1 Corinthians 1:19-24 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
    Are you looking for Dumbo?

    I didn't know I was, but I have been ever since!
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  10. #30
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    WOW! WOW! WOW!
    Richard...what made you think to look at the other card?
    Amazing! Made my day!
    Thank you!

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