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  1. #1

    Christian Forum?

    Hellow Richard and Rose. Thank you for inviting strangers.

    I have an question of ethics to pose to you and having lurked for two days - reading as much as my weakened eyes muscles will permit - I've wondered where you stand on issues of "honesty, intergrity, genuineness, transparency, truthfulness and all like qualities within a human being. Would you consider those qualities as essential as "Peace & Love"?

    I'll give an example - If I'm not a "Christian" - would it be honest, genuine, transparent or truthful to sign on to a basically fundatmentalist Christian forum and allow the members there to believe that I am a Christian for almost a year and then drop the bomb shell on them that I am not by suddenly posting a link to my "otherwise" website and allow them to find out that way that I'm not a Christian, when they had been addressing me as a fellow Christian for almost a year and I never honestly set them straight on that misunderstanding - that I've allowed by playing along?

    Just a question of ethics I suppose - but being somewhat unfamiliar of how much of the Bible you do or don't hold as worth following or Divinely Inspired and worth taking seriously - I wondered where you would stand on these qualities listed above?

    Thank you in advance for any replies.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by inquisitive View Post
    Hellow Richard and Rose. Thank you for inviting strangers.

    I have an question of ethics to pose to you and having lurked for two days - reading as much as my weakened eyes muscles will permit - I've wondered where you stand on issues of "honesty, integrity, genuineness, transparency, truthfulness and all like qualities within a human being. Would you consider those qualities as essential as "Peace & Love"?

    I'll give an example - If I'm not a "Christian" - would it be honest, genuine, transparent or truthful to sign on to a basically fundatmentalist Christian forum and allow the members there to believe that I am a Christian for almost a year and then drop the bomb shell on them that I am not by suddenly posting a link to my "otherwise" website and allow them to find out that way that I'm not a Christian, when they had been addressing me as a fellow Christian for almost a year and I never honestly set them straight on that misunderstanding - that I've allowed by playing along?

    Just a question of ethics I suppose - but being somewhat unfamiliar of how much of the Bible you do or don't hold as worth following or Divinely Inspired and worth taking seriously - I wondered where you would stand on these qualities listed above?

    Thank you in advance for any replies.
    Hey there inquisitive,

    Welcome to our forum!



    That's a curious moral dilema you have presented. I would say it was wrong to mislead them, or more accurately, to allow them to be misled when it was in your power to speak the truth. Why did you do that? What were you hoping to gain by not being open and honest?

    But on the other hand, we all wear masks to one degree or another in this life, don't we? Who could be totally and transparently honest in all things? Even if we tried, we would inevitably be misunderstood, and in some cases and places, that could even be fatal! So there is much wisdom in silence. You do not owe it to anyone to expose all your inner thoughts. But on the same token, your integrity should start complaining if you wilfully deceive people.

    As for dropping a link to you non-Christian site on a Christian forum? That sounds like a very rude thing to do, and probably ineffective since they would likely just delete it and ban you. So why would you want to do that?

    If I were you, I imagine I would probably try to gently introduce my "true self" and see if there is anyone there interested in authenticity. If not, I'd say "I'm really sorry for lying to you all" and leave quietly I guess. But this is all hypothetical since I don't know the details of your situation.

    Anyway, I hope that helps.

    All the best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #3
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    her?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Hey there inquisitive,

    Welcome to our forum!



    That's a curious moral dilema you have presented. I would say it was wrong to mislead them, or more accurately, to allow them to be misled when it was in your power to speak the truth. Why did you do that? What were you hoping to gain by not being open and honest?

    But on the other hand, we all wear masks to one degree or another in this life, don't we? Who could be totally and transparently honest in all things? Even if we tried, we would inevitably be misunderstood, and in some cases and places, that could even be fatal! So there is much wisdom in silence. You do not owe it to anyone to expose all your inner thoughts. But on the same token, your integrity should start complaining if you wilfully deceive people.

    As for dropping a link to you non-Christian site on a Christian forum? That sounds like a very rude thing to do, and probably ineffective since they would likely just delete it and ban you. So why would you want to do that?

    If I were you, I imagine I would probably try to gently introduce my "true self" and see if there is anyone there interested in authenticity. If not, I'd say "I'm really sorry for lying to you all" and leave quietly I guess. But this is all hypothetical since I don't know the details of your situation.

    Anyway, I hope that helps.

    All the best,

    Richard
    But, Richard...wait a minute...I thought...wasn't she actually addressing that to...awe never mind.

    Facing the East,
    Frater Rosae Crucis
    Facing the East,
    Frater Rosae Crucis



    "It is only by the exercise of Reason, that man can discover God."
    ~ Thomas Paine

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC Christian View Post
    But, Richard...wait a minute...I thought...wasn't she actually addressing that to...awe never mind.

    Facing the East,
    Frater Rosae Crucis
    Yeah I had similar half-thoughts forming in my mind but they never quite materialized themselves.

    But now let me ask you this mysterious question. When I read inquisitive's post I immediately thought it was written by a female too. When talking to Rose about it, I referred to the author as "she." But hey ... there's nothing in the post that explicitly reveals the gender of the author! Why is it that you and I both thought it was written by a woman?

    inquisitive - I hope this doesn't offend you if you're a man! Sorry! But it is very curious. I often have noted that I pick up the gender of an anonymous post when there is nothing in the post that would explicitly give me that information.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #5
    Frater Rosicrusian is a bit perceptive I see. How's that friend? and am female and yup on the rest.



    Richard, where would you as one who doesn't believe that the Bible is "The Word of God" and that Jesus is Not God, stand on the subject of moral absolutes?

    Also, can one seperate Love for fellow humans from being honest/nondeceptive with them?

    Aww, enough with my pestering with questions and just moving on to what I think should be done in cases like these ... Get Off of that Forum but Remove your URL first - to have a clearer conscience, if nothing else - if you believe at all that deception and baiting fellow humans is something that 'should' affect a human's conscience -- if one hasn't thrown away the concept of a conscience, along with their other former beliefs.



    What do you think of my suggestion? Should I give the person in question that solution privately or suggest the ones you gave, Richard?



    "Love rejoices in truth [or truthfulness]" - Divinely Inspired in everyone's mind or not - it sure seems to speak of some sort of beautiful harmony.



    Thank you for your ears & answers and I pray you haven't minded this intrusion. I may intrude again with other confusing dilemmas, being inquisitive by nature - so Thank you for your forebearance.



    Love!

  6. #6
    Ah Oh, part of my last post didn't come through ... it had this part before the first question to you as well ... must have not caught it in the copy and pasted part.


    Last night I read this thread here - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...e-Word-Of-God&


    Thank youse three again!


    Love!

  7. #7
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    ...?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    But now let me ask you this mysterious question. When I read inquisitive's post I immediately thought it was written by a female too. When talking to Rose about it, I referred to the author as "she." But hey ... there's nothing in the post that explicitly reveals the gender of the author! Why is it that you and I both thought it was written by a woman?

    inquisitive - I hope this doesn't offend you if you're a man! Sorry! But it is very curious. I often have noted that I pick up the gender of an anonymous post when there is nothing in the post that would explicitly give me that information.
    You know, I have no idea. Even when I re-read the post (and I mean this in no offensive way, Inquisitive, man or woman), I was hearing a female voice in my head talking? I don't have an answer, except for maybe...great minds think alike????

    I 'knew' Heb13-13 was a man before I saw his name at the bottom of his posts, also. And Charisma, I'm guessing woman? Beats me. I may be wrong about all of them, except Rick.

    NOTE: I swear there was no bad connotations implied in anything I just wrote. Just responding to Richard's question and extrapolating outward.

    Facing the East,
    Frater Rosae Crucis
    Facing the East,
    Frater Rosae Crucis



    "It is only by the exercise of Reason, that man can discover God."
    ~ Thomas Paine

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by inquisitive View Post
    Frater Rosicrusian is a bit perceptive I see. How's that friend? and am female and yup on the rest.



    Richard, where would you as one who doesn't believe that the Bible is "The Word of God" and that Jesus is Not God, stand on the subject of moral absolutes?
    Hey there inquisitive,

    I'm glad our intuitions were correct! It would have been embarrassing if you were a guy. But what was it in your post that gave away you gender?

    As for "moral absolutes" - ABSOLUTELY! But they don't exist independently of humans. That's the error in that whole debate. People take the fact that moral absolutes must be independent of any particular individual, and then think they must exist independent of any individual. That is not correct. Morality only applies to humans (or other sentient beings, but they are hypothetical so we need not discuss them right now).

    Quote Originally Posted by inquisitive View Post
    Also, can one seperate Love for fellow humans from being honest/nondeceptive with them?
    Absolutely. Do you love your five year old daughter? Have you told her the TRUTH about the world? About the men who would love to .... you know what I mean.

    When the Nazi's knocked on my door asking about the Jews in my attic, I lied to them and God smiled.

    Quote Originally Posted by inquisitive View Post
    Aww, enough with my pestering with questions and just moving on to what I think should be done in cases like these ... Get Off of that Forum but Remove your URL first - to have a clearer conscience, if nothing else - if you believe at all that deception and baiting fellow humans is something that 'should' affect a human's conscience -- if one hasn't thrown away the concept of a conscience, along with their other former beliefs.
    I don't understand your comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by inquisitive View Post
    What do you think of my suggestion? Should I give the person in question that solution privately or suggest the ones you gave, Richard?
    Ooops! I had thought you were talking about yourself as the person pretending to be a Christian! Now I see that you asking what you should do about that person who exposes themself as a non-Christian after a year of pretending? Well, all I can tell you is what I would do as a non-Christian. I would say "Thanks for finally coming clean!" And then I would continue in conversation. I don't know what I would do if I were still a Christian. It would depend on the kind of "offense" or "threat" I felt that person posed. If the person were irrational and just abusing my forum to promote things I strongly disagree with, I'd probably choose to ban that person. But first I would try to communicate and see if that person is interested in rational discourse or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by inquisitive View Post
    Thank you for your ears & answers and I pray you haven't minded this intrusion. I may intrude again with other confusing dilemmas, being inquisitive by nature - so Thank you for your forebearance.



    Love!
    I hope you feel free to intrude as often as you like.

    You and your questions are always welcome here!

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC Christian View Post
    You know, I have no idea. Even when I re-read the post (and I mean this in no offensive way, Inquisitive, man or woman), I was hearing a female voice in my head talking? I don't have an answer, except for maybe...great minds think alike????

    I 'knew' Heb13-13 was a man before I saw his name at the bottom of his posts, also. And Charisma, I'm guessing woman? Beats me. I may be wrong about all of them, except Rick.

    NOTE: I swear there was no bad connotations implied in anything I just wrote. Just responding to Richard's question and extrapolating outward.

    Facing the East,
    Frater Rosae Crucis
    Yep, that's what happens to me too. I often "hear" a male or female voice while reading. It just seems totally obvious. And yes, Charisma is a woman, and I knew that too before having any objective confirmation.

    And I felt Rick was male before he shared his name. (Or is that short for Rickella? )
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by inquisitive View Post
    Ah Oh, part of my last post didn't come through ... it had this part before the first question to you as well ... must have not caught it in the copy and pasted part.


    Last night I read this thread here - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...e-Word-Of-God&


    Thank youse three again!


    Love!
    Ah yes ... that thread where we are asking about the Bible as the Word of God. This has been a topic around here for a while now. I was a strongly fundamentalist Christian for a lot of years and really felt that the Bible was the "Word of God." I felt that the Bible Wheel gave solid proof of this fact. But I was not like many fundamentalist because though I believed the Bible was the Word of God, I did not believe it was "inerrant and infallible." This was because I really believed it was the WORD OF GOD and so I knew it had to be the way that God wanted it to be, warts and all. The highest view of Scripture is to accept it as God gave it. The doctrine of infallibility is man-made and demonstrably false. It is a great sin and an insult to God to say something about his book that is not true. That's why all the Christian apologists who spend their lives twisting words to hide the errors in the Bible are very very bad. They have taught whole generations of people to follow lies in the name of God. It don't get much worse than that.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

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