YouTube video: Debate on the Historicity of Jesus' Resurrection

**duxrow** · 05-28-2012, 10:47 AM

Much as I dislike 'adding to The Word', it seems to me there's much more to the account than what's on the surface -- still the Truth, but not the Whole(y) Truth, since much of the dialogue is not included (as we're told in John's Gospel). Just enough to keep the Bible interesting and challenging even after over 2000 years of examination by fools and educated alike..

**Richard Amiel McGough** · 05-28-2012, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by duxrow

Much as I dislike 'adding to The Word', it seems to me there's much more to the account than what's on the surface -- still the Truth, but not the Whole(y) Truth, since much of the dialogue is not included (as we're told in John's Gospel). Just enough to keep the Bible interesting and challenging even after over 2000 years of examination by fools and educated alike..

What makes you think any of it's true? When I read a story that includes a man made from mud, a woman made from a rib, a talking snake and magical trees that impart knowledge and life, I tend to think "parable" at best and "myth" as most likely.

And the reason people keep talking about it might have something to do with the fact that the Bible has been used by governing authorities to control people for nearly 2000 years. Billions of people have been indoctrinated with this book from their youth. Of course they will be talking about it ...

**duxrow** · 05-28-2012, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough

What makes you think any of it's true? When I read a story that includes a man made from mud, a woman made from a rib, a talking snake and magical trees that impart knowledge and life, I tend to think "parable" at best and "myth" as most likely.

And the reason people keep talking about it might have something to do with the fact that the Bible has been used by governing authorities to control people for nearly 2000 years. Billions of people have been indoctrinated with this book from their youth. Of course they will be talking about it ...

Two kinds of wrestling.. and hindsight a way of understanding.

The 6th 'son' (maybe for the 6th day?) Naphtali is a hind let loose: he giveth goodly words. Gen49:21
And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali. Gen30:8

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
And don't take it all at face value--

**Richard Amiel McGough** · 05-28-2012, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by duxrow

Two kinds of wrestling.. and hindsight a way of understanding.

The 6th 'son' (maybe for the 6th day?) Naphtali is a hind let loose: he giveth goodly words. Gen49:21
And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali. Gen30:8

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
And don't take it all at face value--

Well, if the sixth son links to the sixth day, then shouldn't we have had 12 days of creation, one for each son?

**duxrow** · 05-28-2012, 02:32 PM

You're right! Instead, we get 12 hr days plus 12 hr nites: "by two it's established" is what Joseph told the Pharoah about his two dreams, and that was AFTER we'd already been informed of the 2 Great Lights and the 2 Tree's, 2 'brothers', etc.

**Richard Amiel McGough** · 05-28-2012, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by duxrow

You're right! Instead, we get 12 hr days plus 12 hr nites: "by two it's established" is what Joseph told the Pharoah about his two dreams, and that was AFTER we'd already been informed of the 2 Great Lights and the 2 Tree's, 2 'brothers', etc.

And with that, I'd say we've gone thoroughly off-topic!

**duxrow** · 05-29-2012, 04:09 AM

What makes you think any of it's true? When I read a story that includes a man made from mud, a woman made from a rib, a talking snake and magical trees that impart knowledge and life, I tend to think "parable" at best and "myth" as most likely.

Aw contrare. For mud, you must add liquid. Like on the Day of Pentecost.

"And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat" Lk22:31
Not mud, but 'dust'. Hafta add water.
Same material used by Detroit for cars..
Same as used in supplements today.

Not only dust, also tree's! Many with bark. Some that bend with the wind.
Some of righteousness, Isa61. Some prob good for firewood.

Not only tree's, but vessels. Some that hold water. Some that chip easily.
Some that can't abide the fire, or take the heat.. they may crash on the rocks, like Paul at Malta..

**duxrow** · 05-30-2012, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by duxrow

Aw contrare. For mud, you must add liquid. Like on the Day of Pentecost.

"And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat" Lk22:31
Not mud, but 'dust'. Hafta add water.
Same material used by Detroit for cars..
Same as used in supplements today.

Not only dust, also tree's! Many with bark. Some that bend with the wind.
Some of righteousness, Isa61. Some prob good for firewood.

Not only tree's, but vessels. Some that hold water. Some that chip easily.
Some that can't abide the fire, or take the heat.. they may crash on the rocks, like Paul at Malta..

Rom9:21 "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?"
Our "Fountain of Living Water", Jer2:13, is making mud-pies, you think?

**Charisma** · 05-31-2012, 05:53 PM

What makes you think any of it's true? When I read a story that includes a man made from mud, a woman made from a rib, a talking snake and magical trees that impart knowledge and life, I tend to think "parable" at best and "myth" as most likely.

Hi Richard,

It's not as complicated as that.

If someone speaks the word of life to you, you know the Person who spoke is alive. This is why Christians believe the historicity of the resurrection. Not because they followed a debate, or even believed the eyewitness accounts in scripture, which were essential for Jews, or read, 'Who Moved the Stone?'

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Romans 1:21 '... when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened... 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind...'

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

**Richard Amiel McGough** · 05-31-2012, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Charisma

Hi Richard,

It's not as complicated as that.

If someone speaks the word of life to you, you know the Person who spoke is alive. This is why Christians believe the historicity of the resurrection. Not because they followed a debate, or even believed the eyewitness accounts in scripture, which were essential for Jews, or read, 'Who Moved the Stone?'

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Romans 1:21 '... when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened... 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind...'

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Hey there Charisma,

You say that is not because "they followed a debate, or even believed the eyewitness accounts in scripture." So it seems you are saying that Christians think they know they are right merely because they feel they are right. It seems you are admitting that there is no reason anyone should believe the Gospel until God "speaks the word of life" to them. The verses you quoted seem to say the same thing. They say that unbelievers can't do anything about being blind to the Gospel because the Gospel can only be heard by those whom God has chosen. The rest are lost and so the Gospel is foolishness to them.

If that's the case, the I must agree that all debate is futile. No amount of study or discussion can lead a person to faith because there is no evidence for Christianity. It is a purely subjective religion based only on "faith" - what a person believes - like all the other religions.

Is this what you were trying to say, or have I failed to understand your point?

All the best,

Richard