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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    Aaaaaa! Wrong answer again. Remember this phrase, "taste death" and "carry your cross"? Jesus was telling them that some of them would not taste death (carrying the cross) until they saw the son of man coming in His kingdom, with and in the glory of His Father and of His Angels, to reward everyone according to their deeds; that is, those who gave up their lives (carrying the cross) for His Name sake would be rewarded when He came in His Kingdom; those who chose to follow the world, and refused to carry the cross, would not receive a reward. THEN He says, "Some standing here would not taste death until they saw Jesus coming in His kingdom to reward each accordingly.

    Joe
    Hi Joe,

    Just one little oversight: All men receive a reward! Those that follow after the world receive the second death where the body and soul is destoryed. That's their reward to whosoever will save his life shall lose it....
    Beck

  2. #12
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    Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. 28 "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." is no different in meaning from John 3 :16, "6 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." or from John 8 : 51-52:
    51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”

    52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”
    Therefore Matthew 16:28, 28 "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." has Nothing to do with AD 70 but with the future coming of Christ in the glory of the Father and His angels.

    May God Bless our understanding of His words.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. 28 "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." is no different in meaning from John 3 :16, "6 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." or from John 8 : 51-52:

    51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”

    52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”


    Therefore Matthew 16:28, 28 "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." has Nothing to do with AD 70 but with the future coming of Christ in the glory of the Father and His angels.

    May God Bless our understanding of His words.:pray:

    Preterists have misapplied Mt. 16:28 to the second coming of Christ when it actually is concerned with his first coming-the inauguration of the kingdom of Christ. Jesus came into His Kingdom reign only a short time after He said this, and all but one of His disciples did see Him conquer death and ascend into the heavens from where He rules at the right hand of God, far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion (Eph 1:20-21). He will come at the end of the age in the glory of His Father with the holy angels (2 Thess. 1:7f ), and then He will reward every man according to his deeds. The fact that Jesus first speaks of His final coming (Mt. 16:27) and then His first coming (Mt. 16:28) is not an inconsistency, but is a common feature of speaking. He describes the Kingdom and its end (v.27), then says, “Some of you standing here will actually see the beginning of this Kingdom, and witness My coming into power and authority.”

    Six days later Peter, James and John saw a fore-view of Christ in his kingdom glory at the transfiguration. We read in John 12:23, 31-32, “The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me.” This also describes the coming of the Son of man into His Kingdom, and speaks most gloriously of the triumph of Christ over Satan at His resurrection. It predicts that His death will begin this mighty spiritual Kingdom, that men will be drawn to Him, and that the power of Satan on the earth will be severely limited.

    Jesus said in Luke 17:20-21, “The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is among you.” After Christ's ascension the kingdom of God and of his Christ came with full power at Pentecost beginning the salvation age, Acts 2:17-21, until 1 Cor. 15:24-26.

    God bless---Twospirits
    "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Rev. 21:4).

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. 28 "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." is no different in meaning from John 3 :16, "6 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." or from John 8 : 51-52:

    I see you misapplying that passage. In that pasage they whom obey shall never die or taste death. Clearly that isn't in reference to the physical body for those that obey his words, yet still die and continue to die.

    51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”

    52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”
    What you miss is that in Matthew Jesus told them that some standing there shall not taste death in the physically body until they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. That neither could be in reference to the transfiguration nor pentecost becasue none of them that stood there among his disciples where killed nor died of natural causes with in that time frame (The opposite of some not tasting death).

    Therefore Matthew 16:28, 28 "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." has Nothing to do with AD 70 but with the future coming of Christ in the glory of the Father and His angels.

    May God Bless our understanding of His words.
    Then you must force the scripture to imply that some standing there would live until he returns, which have been around 2000 years now. You see Jesus repeatedly told them that they needed to 'count the cost', 'to take up his own cross' and 'that they shall deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you'. Jesus was trying to prepare them for his death on the cross as well prepare them for their own cross of death. Jesus in saying that some would live to see the coming of the Son of man in his kingdom was given them hope that it was soon to come and not far removed from that generation.
    Beck

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twospirits
    Preterists have misapplied Mt. 16:28 to the second coming of Christ when it actually is concerned with his first coming-the inauguration of the kingdom of Christ. Jesus came into His Kingdom reign only a short time after He said this, and all but one of His disciples did see Him conquer death and ascend into the heavens from where He rules at the right hand of God, far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion (Eph 1:20-21). He will come at the end of the age in the glory of His Father with the holy angels (2 Thess. 1:7f ), and then He will reward every man according to his deeds. The fact that Jesus first speaks of His final coming (Mt. 16:27) and then His first coming (Mt. 16:28) is not an inconsistency, but is a common feature of speaking. He describes the Kingdom and its end (v.27), then says, “Some of you standing here will actually see the beginning of this Kingdom, and witness My coming into power and authority.”
    Hi Twospirits,

    Lets see.... You're claiming that the fulfillment of Jesus coming into his kingdom was by his death and ascention into heaven where he rules standing at the right hand of God. Thus implying this to be what Jesus meant when he stated that some standing there would live to 'see' the Son of man coming in his kingdom. They where to see him ascend into heaven.

    Well if that's the case would you not also put Caiaphas, cheif priest and the elders among those that would 'see' Jesus ascend into heaven? Would it not be said that they shall 'see' the Son of man sitting on the right hand of God with power and of his coming? I'm just saying that wouldn't seem to be implying nor referring to anyone seeing him ascend into heaven.


    Neither do I think it's good hermeneutics to separate these two verses which Jesus spoke of 'Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels ( v.27)' To that which he confirmed by saying Verily I say unto you........ 'There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.'



    Six days later Peter, James and John saw a fore-view of Christ in his kingdom glory at the transfiguration. We read in John 12:23, 31-32, “The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me.” This also describes the coming of the Son of man into His Kingdom, and speaks most gloriously of the triumph of Christ over Satan at His resurrection. It predicts that His death will begin this mighty spiritual Kingdom, that men will be drawn to Him, and that the power of Satan on the earth will be severely limited.

    Jesus said in Luke 17:20-21, “The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is among you.” After Christ's ascension the kingdom of God and of his Christ came with full power at Pentecost beginning the salvation age, Acts 2:17-21, until 1 Cor. 15:24-26.

    God bless---Twospirits
    That would only work if you apply Matt.16:27 to that of the day of pentecost.
    Beck

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beck View Post
    I see you misapplying that passage. In that pasage they whom obey shall never die or taste death. Clearly that isn't in reference to the physical body for those that obey his words, yet still die and continue to die.



    What you miss is that in Matthew Jesus told them that some standing there shall not taste death in the physically body until they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. That neither could be in reference to the transfiguration nor pentecost becasue none of them that stood there among his disciples where killed nor died of natural causes with in that time frame (The opposite of some not tasting death).


    Then you must force the scripture to imply that some standing there would live until he returns, which have been around 2000 years now. You see Jesus repeatedly told them that they needed to 'count the cost', 'to take up his own cross' and 'that they shall deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you'. Jesus was trying to prepare them for his death on the cross as well prepare them for their own cross of death. Jesus in saying that some would live to see the coming of the Son of man in his kingdom was given them hope that it was soon to come and not far removed from that generation.
    What I am saying is that both Matthew 16 and John 8 says about "not tasting death" means receiving eternal life. In John 8, the Pharisees knew that "not tasting death" means eternal life which was why they rebuked Jesus by saying,"Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham?". In John 8, Jesus simply said that those who obeys His words will not taste death i.e. will receive eternal life.

    In Matthew 16, "there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom" simply means that some standing there together with Jesus will not taste death i.e. will receive eternal life when they will be resurrected to see Jesus coming in His kingdom. Did Jesus kingdom came in AD 70?. Many of His apostles died before AD 70 and a few were believed to live beyond AD 70, did they saw Jesus coming in His kingdom to receive eternal life? Obviously No as no record whatsoever was recorded. And by AD 100, All of Jesus apostles have already died without seeing Jesus kingdom came. Then when will Jesus kingdom comes?


    May God comes with His kingdom soon.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  7. #17
    Beck wrote,

    Lets see.... You're claiming that the fulfillment of Jesus coming into his kingdom was by his death and ascention into heaven where he rules standing at the right hand of God. Thus implying this to be what Jesus meant when he stated that some standing there would live to 'see' the Son of man coming in his kingdom. They where to see him ascend into heaven.
    No, when Jesus said “some standing here will not taste death till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom” I believe this refers to his resurrection. Jesus spoke of his crucifixion, and that he would rise on the third day in Mt. 16:21, and when he rose he had his kingdom with him; and all but Judas would see him (the others would not taste death) in his glorified state, the King of the Kingdom “coming in his kingdom.” When Christ came out of the tomb, he became King of his kingdom, and all those that claim the name of Christ are of the kingdom of God. Before his ascension he spoke to his disciples “of things pertaining to the kingdom of God” (Acts 1:3).

    Neither do I think it's good hermeneutics to separate these two verses which Jesus spoke of 'Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels ( v.27)' To that which he confirmed by saying Verily I say unto you........ 'There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.'
    Verses 27 and 28 speak of different times and events. Verses 24 to 27 speak of denying oneself for Christ unto death and the followers of Christ would be rewarded in the resurrection/judgment at the coming of Christ (see John 5:28-29; John 6:40). However in verse 28 Jesus speaks of his resurrection coming in his kingdom to his disciples, not his final heavenly coming to resurrect and reward his saints.

    Twospirits wrote,
    Six days later Peter, James and John saw a fore-view of Christ in his kingdom glory at the transfiguration. We read in John 12:23, 31-32, “The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me.” This also describes the coming of the Son of man into His Kingdom, and speaks most gloriously of the triumph of Christ over Satan at His resurrection. It predicts that His death will begin this mighty spiritual Kingdom, that men will be drawn to Him, and that the power of Satan on the earth will be severely limited.

    Jesus said in Luke 17:20-21, “The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is among you.” After Christ's ascension the kingdom of God and of his Christ came with full power at Pentecost beginning the salvation age, Acts 2:17-21, until 1 Cor. 15:24-26.

    God bless---Twospirits

    beck replied,
    That would only work if you apply Matt.16:27 to that of the day of pentecost.
    No as I noted, it applies to Mt. 16:28 where Christ inaugurated the kingdom by “coming in his kingdom” after his resurrection, ascension and Pentecost.

    God bless---Twospirits
    "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Rev. 21:4).

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    What I am saying is that both Matthew 16 and John 8 says about "not tasting death" means receiving eternal life. In John 8, the Pharisees knew that "not tasting death" means eternal life which was why they rebuked Jesus by saying,"Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham?". In John 8, Jesus simply said that those who obeys His words will not taste death i.e. will receive eternal life.

    In Matthew 16, "there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom" simply means that some standing there together with Jesus will not taste death i.e. will receive eternal life when they will be resurrected to see Jesus coming in His kingdom. Did Jesus kingdom came in AD 70?. Many of His apostles died before AD 70 and a few were believed to live beyond AD 70, did they saw Jesus coming in His kingdom to receive eternal life? Obviously No as no record whatsoever was recorded. And by AD 100, All of Jesus apostles have already died without seeing Jesus kingdom came. Then when will Jesus kingdom comes?


    May God comes with His kingdom soon.
    And that's why I said you misapplied those passages. In Matthew it' clearly not refering to them living eternal, but that some would live until they would see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Clearly by this statement 'some' would die. So you're taking it out of it's context.
    Beck

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twospirits
    No, when Jesus said “some standing here will not taste death till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom” I believe this refers to his resurrection. Jesus spoke of his crucifixion, and that he would rise on the third day in Mt. 16:21, and when he rose he had his kingdom with him; and all but Judas would see him (the others would not taste death) in his glorified state, the King of the Kingdom “coming in his kingdom.” When Christ came out of the tomb, he became King of his kingdom, and all those that claim the name of Christ are of the kingdom of God. Before his ascension he spoke to his disciples “of things pertaining to the kingdom of God” (Acts 1:3).
    This perspective fells becasue of the context. The context is that those that deny himself and follow after Christ must take up his cross and those that do this in losing their life shall be saved and those that attemp to save their own life shall lose their life. This is then the reference that Jesus gives:

    Matthew 16:27-28
    27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.



    Notice the confirmation of vesre 27 found in verse 28. "Verily I say unto you" Jesus is making firm what he just said about the Son of man shall come. He confirmed that by saying that some standing here shall see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. In reference to the coming of the Son of man with his angels.

    We first must recognize this important truth in how to interpert this passage.


    I'll say this if your prespective is the correct one then both of the verses must be pointing to his ascension. If you where to claim this what then is the reward that his disciples were told about them receving by setting on twelve thrones judging Israel.(Matthew 19:28).

    Of course this all would have to parallel with Caiaphas and the elders seeing the Son of man coming as well. Should we interpert all of these different comings of the Son of man? It seems that Jesus is refering to only one coming.
    Beck

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beck View Post
    And that's why I said you misapplied those passages. In Matthew it' clearly not refering to them living eternal, but that some would live until they would see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Clearly by this statement 'some' would die. So you're taking it out of it's context.
    When did they see the Son of MAn coming in His kingdom? Any historical records to confirm?.....or did they came invisibly and secretly? "There are some standing here" means that the people who believed and who were with him there will receive eternal life when He come with His kingdom. Obviously, some people standing there who did not believe Him will not receive eternal life.

    God Blessed us all.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

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