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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    I'm sorry if this discussion offended you. I've noticed that not too many people on the Wheel are interested in talking about anything accept Prophesy, or Church pet-pee's such as Baptism, once saved always saved, Sabbath days, etc. I've risen above all such pettiness.

    At any rate, God bless you, and have a wonderful day.

    Joe
    Hi Joe,

    I just want to clear up that I am not offended at all. I just don't have the heart for debating the merits of voting Democrat over Republican or vice-versa when I know there is much more going on than meets the eye or is reported in the news. Much of the behind-the-scenes work is kept from the average American, but if you are willing to search things out without a preconceived bias, you will find a lot of information related to what is really going on.

    Best to you,
    Rick
    Last edited by heb13-13; 10-31-2011 at 09:13 PM.

    There is no other book like the Bible in the world where you have to know the Author to understand the book. If Christianity were the religion of the Book then it would be no different than any other religion in the world. But, Christianity is Christ! It is the dynamic, personal Spirit of God functioning in man.

    Answering the Skeptics Bible

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by heb13-13 View Post
    Hi Joe,

    I just want to clear up that I am not offended at all. I just don't have the heart for debating the merits of voting Democrat over Republican or vice-versa when I know there is much more going on than meets the eye or is reported in the news. Much of the behind-the-scenes work is kept from the average American, but if you are willing to search things out without a preconceived bias, you will find a lot of information related to what is really going on.

    Best to you,
    Rick
    No objections here. I know that there are "behind the scenes" activities going on in Washington. That's what the 99% percent movement is all about. It's not just about Democratic or Republican votes. It's about our government, which has grown into a very corrupt institution who yield their power to the highest bidder. The 99% percent are basically saying, "HEY! OVER HERE! WHAT ABOUT MY VOICE? WE OUTNUMBER THE 1% PERCENT SO LISTEN TO US, AND NOT THEM!" That's what this movement is all about.

    What saddens me is how Fox News has been reporting that the 99% percent are comprised of sleazy drug addicts and college kids simply looking for something to complain about. But that isn't true at all. Most of them are former business employee's who were laid off due to company cut backs or closures. Look at what happened to Whirlpool who took millions of dollars in bail-out money, yet still shut down despite their very good profit margins. Well, if they were doing so well, then why shut down? As Ed Shultz states, someone at the top wants more money, so the share holders have decided to close down their manufacturing plant and move it to China or India. The reason is obvious; cheaper labor, yielding higher profits for them. Where's the honor in that?

    Here is my solution to the problem. And if I get the chance to speak to the President (yea right! ), this is how I would resolve the issue. Any American citizen who owns companies abroad should be taxed so heavily that it would be cheaper to keep jobs here. Those who refuse would end up paying very high taxes and penalties, and that money would contribute to badly needed revenue for the government. This in turn would create more Public Sector jobs, which are far better than private sector jobs. Sure they don't always pay very well, but they are stable, with guaranteed pensions and health care.

    I would also end tax entitlements for the middle class and the wealthy. I would end the child-tax credit, AND the tax break loop holes for rich corporations as well as their tax incentives such as with Big Oil. For the top 1% percent, we know that they obtained their wealth from immoral practices, so I would bring back the luxury tax on the top 1% percent, and make it very heavy. This too would contribute to badly needed revenue for our government.

    Lastly, all American corporations who have businesses overseas, and are relying on the military to protect their infrastructural, would have to pay additional taxes to support military troops, and/or equipment upgrades. Why not? We're protecting their assets, so it's only fair that they compensate the cost of keeping bases overseas. The U.S. didn't have any problems taking money from Saudi Arabia in the 90's, when Bill Clinton had huge piles of cash that supposedly nobody knew where it came from. The Saudi's were paying the United States for our protection. But WE, the members of the armed forces, didn't receive a single penny. Uncle Sam spoke on behalf of us and said, "we're not mercenaries"! We were there with the British and the French who were more than adequately compensated for their service. But the American troops got nothing except $3.50 cents a day for meals.

    Oh, and for the middle class who would lose the tax credits, I would force American companies to increase their wages and raise the minimum wage to $15.00 dollars an hour. This would force the wager earning into taking responsibility for his/her own health care, and investments. If they screw that up, then they would require financial counseling. And if that doesn't work, THEN they'd be left on their own.

    The secret to American economical success is to increase cash flow to the spenders, and NOT investors. Those who invest hurt the economy; those who spend keep the economy flowing with milk and honey.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  3. #13
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    Joe

    The Democrats were simply trying to make it easier for everyone to own a home. What they didn't expect was for Wall street and Big Banks to resort to loan scams imposed on those (the middle class and poor) who wanted to buy a home. I'm one of those idiots who got sucked into their scam. My house was sold at 6% percent because that was the going rate. I didn't have enough money to put down (usually 20%). So what did they do? They over-appraised the value of the house at $148,000 dollars, with a sell price of $135,000. This made it seem like that I had equity built from the get-go. One year later, and BAM!!!! The bubble busted (so they say), and all of a sudden, my house isn't work JACK! Now it's only worth $128,000 dollars, which just happens to be EXACTLY what I owe. Meanwhile, Bank of America has collected more than $48,000 thousand dollars in interest payments, which means if I refinanced my home at the current payoff value, I just lost $48,000 dollars. THAT is the kind of scam that I'm ticked off with big banks, big oil, and Wall street. So I've decided not to refinance because if I lose my job, then I want Bank of America to be stuck with a home they cannot sell. Why would I want to cause problems for an honest bank (if there is such a thing)?


    Joe, I am really sorry for your current situation and we see the bitterness of what is going on. I can not walk in your shoes or make things 'right'. I do not wish to defend the Demos or the Repubs as all are playing a part in this messed up matrix. 'The Game' is a set up and all will eventually loose. It is the way that our economic monetary system is set up that demands a 90% failure rate. Our monetary system is a debt based system and not an asset based system. If you are able to wrap your mind around this concept then you should be able to understand that at some time in the Future you will loose every assest that you have and die with a debit to your account of assets. Billions are in this situation every day and that fact will not end.

    You have proven in the paragraph above that you wrote that you did not do due dilagents in buying your house. A blind man could see that through the ealy 2000s that the 'governments and social groups, home and commercial builders' wanted to 'raise' home ownership and 'business' creation. This was 'designed' to spur the economy by 'raising wealth' with borrowing and artifically raising the values of all properties. Congress (democrats) were looking into bank practices of 'red lining' many areas for '(no) loans' and harder to obtain loans.These restrictings were eased to the point that anyone could get a loan with no credit or credit history. People were 'buying' multiple houses to 'flip' with interest only loan. The hoops that needed to be jumped through were reduced to almost no money down and apraisers over valued properties by looking at the unrealistic 'value rise' of houses around them. County Apraisers followed closely behind to sqeeze as much tax revenue out of each and every property.

    Your 'appraised' value of 148,000 means nothing to the county or to you only the purchase price. In your minds eye you were able to 'make' a $7,000 gain while only 'spending' (borrowing?) 135,000. A 6% rate in a 'standard' economy is a Below standard rate. What do you want, 4%? You are still borrowing money to finance a purchase. You say that you house in 'only' worth 128,000. Joe.... in many areas of the country, house prices have fallen 30,40,50 %. That would mean that 'your' house that was (over) appraised in the building up of the bubble timeline should now be worth....74,000 dollars.
    Your a big boy and could easily see the run up on property prices. Did you look to 'reselling' in several years and make a 'profit' and buy a bigger higher priced home? Bubbles do not last and this (that) housing/property bubble would not either. Our economy willtake years to get back to a stardard rate and when that happens the United State Government will not be able to (also) pay the interest on its' debt..... what happens next is collapse of the economy.

    You have several options to do......

    Do you like the house and want to stay there? Do not try to refinance on a loan that will take you several years to requpe your 'costs' of the loan if you plan to move in 3-5 years. keep paying the 'rent'. If you plan on retiring there, then it may be benifital to chase a 2% drop in the interest payments.
    Prices will continue to fall in many areas of the country of years to come. Equity will not come back to many areas for many years to come. If you plan on moving and can not get a buyer to buy for what is left on you 'note', you may want to just 'walk away' and let the bank have the property. You will always be able to find a 'rental' in any area that you move as values fall more people are walking away and renting until thing stablize 5-10 years down the road. If you like your house and want to stay..... follow the falling price down (most areas in the country will falling price) at when you think that it is close to the bottom, have it reappraised (and ask him to 'dumb it down') and take that lower appraisal to the county to reduce your taxes. You have no 'equity' in your house..... you never did.... and what you may have thought was 'equity' you know very well that it was an 'inflated' bases and not 'true'.

    Neither the 'Right' or the 'Left', Demo or Repub, can 'fix' this broken Matrix in the perameters that the Matrix sets........ The Debt based Matrix has to crash and be destroyed and a new Assets based Matric Created.

    You are being foolish in your talk about 'following' the demos..... Your emotion is talking and not your mind. I am a Blue Dog Democrat..... the wing of the Democratic party that was desimated in the last election. The 'Democrats' have swong so far to the left in a socialist spectrim that the remainder of the population has been forced into the arms of the Repubs... the 'independents' have been pushed to the 'right' because of the clamoring of 'change' and having seen only crony (union BOSSES) pay offs are sick to the spending and corruption in the currect administration. Obama preached so much against Bush and now he has become and is even worse than Bush.... Making Bush proud and proven justsified in all of his actions.

    The party of the Democrats is corrupt and the party of the Republicans is corrupt and the one man that could make a Sea change in the Economics of America and you rail against him also. Ron Paul would attemp to trans form our money system. But there are soooooo many other things that I have seen you rail about him that you over look the good that he will and can make for America.

    From the first post on this thread it is evident that you are trying to shift the blame to somthing else that you walked willingly into. You can not go back and it is what you do from this time forward that will change the day after that.

    Vote for and suport Ron Paul and see a Sea Change to fiscal stability. With out a stable currency, we are all doomed to die in the debit column.
    Last edited by Brother Les; 11-01-2011 at 10:49 AM.
    Brother Les

  4. #14
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    In my opinion, the protestors are focusing their attention on the wrong groups. They need to be occupying Washington so that Washington becomes as responsive to the people as it is to the global banksters that use their wealth and influence to manipulate governments.

  5. #15
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    Why would I vote Republican LES? Especially for Ron Paul? Did you happen to catch the GOP debate when Ron Paul was asked what he would do if a young woman involved in a near-fatal accident didn't have insurance? Before he answered, a few within the crowd yelled, "Let her die!" Now Ron Paul didn't say that, but his response was the same. He replied, "What is this notion that we have to care about someone else? That's what freedom is all about.." What did Ron mean by that? He means that caring for the welfare of your neighbor is a choice. And he, as an American citizen, believes that a person should have a choice or not, whether they want to care for someone else's well being.

    Ron is right, but he is also wrong. Rich folks may get mad at me for saying this, but if you are rich, and you are not paying your employee's what they rightfully earn (having contributed to the success of the CEO's business), then they deserve to be heavily taxed. Businesses aren't successful all on their own, as if only the business owner deserves all the credit and the profit. Customers are the reason they succeed, and the people serving those customers are the reason they succeed. It has very little to do with some hot-shot calling the shots. He's just a financial stepping stone that used his money (or someone else's money) to get rich. But as the old saying goes, "It takes money to make money". The entire idea about people starting at the bottom, and growing rich when they get to the top, is all non-sense. Not a single Politician started at the bottom; NOT ONE! Take Governor Perry for instance. He and his father ran a farm. And how much tax subsidies would you supposed he and his father received for NOT growing so many crops? Farmers receiving tax breaks, Big Oil receiving tax breaks, and all major corporations receiving tax breaks is nothing more than Socialism. Yet he and his father used Socialistic welfare to obtain his wealth. So it's not like he got rich entirely on his own; nobody does.

    I laugh when the rich or brain-washed Republicans assume that we are a Capitalist society. Far from it. Welfare exists on the Corporate AND the middle class sector. Yet here we have a bunch of Greedy Republicans (especially Ron Paul who's a Doctor who has apparently forgotten his oath) who feel that tax breaks for the rich, and corporate welfare is more important than young children needing food stamps.

    WHERE ARE THE JOBS? Why not ask China. Now an associate of mine, whom I'm trying convince to join this discussion, has fallen for the delusion that poor people are poor because they made the wrong choices. But that is not the majority of all cases. In most cases, people lost their jobs to overseas competition, or foreign illegal immigrants. Just look at what Whirlpool did this past weekend. They were profiting pretty well, especially when Mayflower bought them out. But you see? That's wasn't good enough for the share holders. They want MORE money. So what did they do? They laid off 5,000 employees who were being paid roughly $17.00 bucks an hour for 20 years, and now have nothing. Was it because they were going under? Nope, especially after receiving plenty of bail-out money. NO, the share holders want more bang for the buck, so they decided to pull-chocks and ship to Mexico for cheap labor.

    Now if you took a good look at the income disparity that exists between the rich and the poor, you'd see why our economy tanked. GREED....GREED....GREED!

    I agree that greed exists on both sides of the House and Senate. HOWEVER, at this time, there is only one side that cares about the poor; one side who will fight for the middle class. What side is that? Democrats!

    My service in the military has brainwashed me into following the ideals of the Republican party. But ever since George Bush Junior became President, I realized more and more, that the GOP does not represent the interests of the American majority. They are only concerned about the "bottom line". When President Obama passed new legislation to limit what credit card companies could do, on the day of the announcement, not a single GOP representative clapped. Now why is that? Was it because their noses were so stiff and their heads pointed so high, that now they could no longer extort money for profit?

    As I've stated, neither side is perfect, but there is only one side that will help the middle class and the poor. If we get a Republican President back in office, along with a GOP dominated House and Senate, then we can all kiss our country goodbye. My associate blames NAFTA on Bill Clinton, but if he's been watching the news, the only ones fighting for NAFTA are the GOP representatives. Not a single Democrat has expressed their like with NAFTA. Obama has bashed it a few times now, although to Bill Clinton's displeasure.

    Finally, to my associate who thinks that regulation, unions, and high taxes are what's hurting corporations, he needs to take a look at the income chart again, and tell me where they got their huge profits from? He also needs to explain how they managed to profit in the 90's despite paying higher taxes (39.6% percent). The answer? Bill Clinton invested in the economy, and NOT just the share holders.

    What's the secret to a successful economy? Wages...wages...wages. Good wages with a low cost of living dramatically increases disposable income of the middle class. And when the middle class is strong, the upper class (and even the top 1% percent) will be even stronger. This is called "Trickle UP" economics. Trickle Down economics is a complete fraud and a failure, and I've got the numbers to prove it. Just look at the disparity chart and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

    Now what about China? Yes, I know they've created a huge mess with their low wages. But their cost of living is much lower than ours. One way to solve the problem is to reduce our cost of living. This means lowering gas prices, lowering energy prices, and lowering food prices. Cost of living should be managed by the government as a non-profit organization. Doing so would not only increase the disposable income of the middle class, but also the rich (who already have too much money that they don't know what to do with).

    Having said all of this, unless we get the "Share holders" off of our backs, I'm afraid it will not be possible to recover from this recession. We're all familiar with the Titanic and what happened to the poor. The rich in their greediness, cared only for themselves; it's the same with our nation. WE, like the Titanic, are sinking because of a flaw in the economical system (Trickle Down Economics), and the rich are stealing all of remaining life-boats to save their own lives, leaving the poor to drown in the chaos. I say it's time to vote against Washington, and clean-house!!!!

    Joe

    P.S. Hey Byrd? If you've got the guts, join this debate....if you think you can.
    Last edited by TheForgiven; 11-01-2011 at 07:31 PM.
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  6. #16
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    $5.00 dollar debit card fee....WHO'S FAULT WAS IT?

    I just received word today from a good friend of mine who banks with Sun Trust. He was informed that the $5.00 dollar debit card fee was not the idea of the Banks, but (GET THIS) from a Bill passed sometime in 2010. GUESS WHO???

    http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/ref...orm/index.html

    If you read the article, this was an attempt by the GOP to loosen up regulations against Financial institutions to give the "SHARE HOLDERS" higher profits. As if they don't already have enough.

    NOW WHO in their right mind says that we should vote Republican if they are the greedy snakes always after our money? Don't they have enough????

    Right now, I'm looking for the names of the members who voted for the new Bill that was passed without anyone even knowing about it. My friend informed me that his associate who works with SunTrust said, "Don't blame the banks. Blame the politicians who passed legislation urging Banks to charge the $5.00 debit card fee for the share-holders".

    But thanks to the power of our voices, Bank of America and the other banks have decided to pass on this idea due to customers voicing their displeasure. Gee, so when Capitalism doesn't work for them, it's time to refrain right? Well it's working for them now because they have power over us. Just think folks. If we could only break their power over us, then they'd be satisfying our needs, and not theirs.

    WHO GIVES A CRAP ABOUT THE SHARE HOLDERS????

    Joe
    Last edited by TheForgiven; 11-01-2011 at 07:42 PM.
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  7. #17
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    Jan 2008
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    Joe, I typed out a lot of stuff for what you said and the more I thought about it the more saddness that I feel for you and your plight. It seems to me that you have been 'kicked to the curb' and thrown away...... you have been. But it is both parties that have 'negotiated' to unwheelding compromises. It is to the point that the only way to fix the monetary system is crash the system. It all flows from that.

    I am pro Tarriffs and Duties and anti- NAFTA and GATT. All of the politicians of that time knew that these 'trade agreements' would destroy the US manufacturing base and flood the US with slave made goods.

    These problems are really nothing 'new' to the US or any other countries economies in the world. History does repeat itself in economic venuses. The US has always had 'boom and bust' cycles and in a debt based monetary system it always will.


    The 15 trill. 'public' debt is nothing compared to the 'private' and 'corporate' debt. Can you wrap your mind around the numbers of 100 trill (and more with dervatives) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_(finance) US debt. I have seen numbers posted of 700 trill when dervatives are included.The 15trill by itself will crash the US economy, when the other debts (private/dervatives) are thrown in, it will only make the fall faster. The world wide economy WILL FAIL..... make no mistake about it. We have been in a Depression since 2007 (The 'Great Depression' lasted from 1928 to 1947) and nothing will bring back stability except an other World War. Don't be worrying about 'refinancing' your mortgage..... worry about how you will keep you family alive two years from now....


    WHO GIVES A CRAP ABOUT THE SHARE HOLDERS????
    Joe

    The Share Holders.....(which means you wheather you own 'stock' or not)
    It is almost impossible not to be tied to some international company, be it food, clothing, financial, consumer goods.....you 'own' a 'share' of all of this.
    Last edited by Brother Les; 11-02-2011 at 06:24 AM.
    Brother Les

  8. #18
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    CAPITALISM VS. SOCIALISM

    We've heard from the Republican side as it was reported by a very biased News Media Network FOX, supposedly "Fair and Balanced" [Yea right! As if!] that the 99% percent is comprised of a bunch of drug addicts, goons, and bums. But this is far from the truth. MSMBC's Ed Shultz has went live to many of their protests all throughout the nation. One such person who was involved is the famous Michael Myers from Austin Powers, who supported and agreed with the 99% percent Protesters out there. The majority of the Protesters are folks who have lost their jobs, down to college students who have degrees which cost them up to $45,000 dollars to obtain and are now in student debt. Now it is true that a few within the crowd may be simple homeless bums or drug addicts. But if that were the case, then perhaps FOX should ask where they got the money to buy the tents they're sleeping in, or where they got the merchandise such as T-Shirts that are being sold. Better yet, where did they get the materials to make the signs. Did this "bums" and "Drug addicts" dig through trash cans to make their signs, T-Shirts, or merchandise for sell?

    FOX news reports that the 99 are protesting Capitalism, as if our nation is even a Capitalistic society. But that is the largest lie ever to walk the face of the earth. Corporations receiving tax breaks, or tax incentives, so that they will "behave" in a certain manner is far from capitalism. On a side note, I find it quite interesting that the GOP is trying to get rid of Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare, because they say we can't afford it. OH, but we can still afford tax incentives for Big Oil companies comprised of about 12 BILLION dollars in a 10 year period! We can afford to give farmers tax incentives NOT TO GROW TOO MUCH CORN OR WHEAT in order to keep prices up for produce! We can afford Congresses House Majority pay/pension increases of 25% percent (as seen last night on MSNBC). But for some reason, we can't afford social security, medicaid, medicare, Veteran disability pensions, military pensions, student loans, nor anything else. What they really mean to say folks is that any welfare used to help the middle class and the poor is too expensive. But when it comes to corporate welfare or incentives, sure we've got the money for that. After all, we don't want to hurt the "JOB CREATORS". What a bunch of horse crap! Corporations are anything but JOB CREATORS! THEY'RE MORE LIKE PROFITEERS for the SHAREHOLDERS as opposed to Job Creators. The cold hard truth is that it's all about profits for the share holders and not the employee's. That's the sad truth that has oppressed our nation for the past 30 years.

    NOW, are we, in the United States, a Capitalist society? Only a brain washed idiot would think that. From corporate welfare to incentives, we are anything but a Capitalist society, and are more Socialist.

    Now, what's so bad about Socialism? Some argue that Socialism demotes the incentive to "rise and climb" to success. That is the most ignorant and misinformed myth to date. The United States military is a Socialist agency. An Aircraft Mechanic within the Air Force gets paid the exact same pay as a cook working in a Dining facility, respective of their rank of course. SO an E-5 working as a Supervisor in an aircraft maintenance unit receives the same amount of pay and benefits as an E-5 working in a Dining Facility. The reason why the military does this is because no matter what specialty you are trained to do, you are valuable and important to the military, and the military needs you. An aircraft Pilot makes the same amount of money as a unit commander who never flies. A plummer makes the same amount of money as the metal fabricator. I think we get the point. And in each of these specialty skills, the military requires that you do the very best that you can no matter what skill you are trained on. And in all this, nobody is above or below their associate, notwithstanding their pay-grade of course. But this system works. Morale, although low these days due to force shaping and reduction, is generally pretty well in most cases, unless of course a person was put into a specialty they did not want to perform; that's an entirely different circumstance. Specialty assignment is selected based on the demands within a given career, and also how the member scores on their ASVAB test.

    In all this, the military is a proven agency that Socialism works just fine. Many within each specialty strive for perfection no matter what career they've chosen or have been assigned. And all receive the same pay based on rank, as well as the same retirement pension and health care. SO, that leaves me to wonder why the civilian sector has a hard time accepting this. There's really only one reason why some would hate this form of social engineering. GREED!!!! When it all comes down to it, it's all about Greed. And right now, our country (for the past 30 years) has been turned into a nation where only the Executives and the CEO'S are entitled to wealth, and everyone else below them, no matter how many years of training or education was required to work for these people, do not deserve a piece of the pie. This kind of inequality has led to the largest Wall Street extortion of the public since the great depression in 1929. Laws and regulations were established to prevent that from happening again. But those laws and regulations were removed when George Bush took office. And in 2008, everything started coming down. Now the 1% to 2% percent within our nation has set the bar for wealth. Unless you are a CEO of some business or law firm, you are not entitled to sharing wealth. It's gotten to the points that the only ones who feel they have the right to make money are the share holders; those who play the stock market. Right now, all major corporations are sitting on the largest sum of capital in recorded history; between $6 to $7 TRILLION DOLLARS IN CAPITAL and that's never happened before. And what are they doing with this money? It's certainly not going to wages, tips, or salaries. It's all being stored away in offshore accounts (to evade badly needed tax revenue) or they simply throw it in Wall Street looking for ways to increase its wealth. And everyone knows that Wall Street accumulates its wealth from high interest rate loans. And THAT is the reason why corporations don't want to pay the middle class higher rates. They WANT you to take out loans to buy products because money-from-money is how they prefer to accumulate wealth. Sure they want you to buy their products, especially the ones made overseas. But the last thing they want is for someone to pay cash for their products; especially a middle class employee. These rich tycoons want you dependent on banks to buy their products because that enables them to collect profit in two ways; the sell of their product, and the money borrowed to buy their products or services. This is what their "Free Market" society is all about; economical engineering and control.

    In conclusion, I've shown you that the United States is far from a Capitalistic society. Large corporations, down to the poorest American, all receives tax breaks or tax incentives to "behave" in a certain manner, or to be rewarded for a certain manner. The U.S. Military is a perfect example of just how well Socialism works. People are paid based on their rank, and not their skill, and all without each skilled employee of the military, receive the same pay-grade check, retirement, and health care. Perhaps if the civilian sector adapted to the military professional structure, the playing field would be level. But again, only one entity prevents this from ever succeeding. GREED! If you consider the Church (Kingdom of Christ), there are those who are first, and those who are last, yet all of them receive the same award. If our nation could free itself from global greed, and learn to keep their neighbor in mind, instead of their shares, we would be far better than what we are, with no 99'ers out there.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    Joe, I typed out a lot of stuff for what you said and the more I thought about it the more saddness that I feel for you and your plight. It seems to me that you have been 'kicked to the curb' and thrown away...... you have been. But it is both parties that have 'negotiated' to unwheelding compromises. It is to the point that the only way to fix the monetary system is crash the system. It all flows from that.

    I am pro Tarriffs and Duties and anti- NAFTA and GATT. All of the politicians of that time knew that these 'trade agreements' would destroy the US manufacturing base and flood the US with slave made goods.

    These problems are really nothing 'new' to the US or any other countries economies in the world. History does repeat itself in economic venuses. The US has always had 'boom and bust' cycles and in a debt based monetary system it always will.


    The 15 trill. 'public' debt is nothing compared to the 'private' and 'corporate' debt. Can you wrap your mind around the numbers of 100 trill (and more with dervatives) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_(finance) US debt. I have seen numbers posted of 700 trill when dervatives are included.The 15trill by itself will crash the US economy, when the other debts (private/dervatives) are thrown in, it will only make the fall faster. The world wide economy WILL FAIL..... make no mistake about it. We have been in a Depression since 2007 (The 'Great Depression' lasted from 1928 to 1947) and nothing will bring back stability except an other World War. Don't be worrying about 'refinancing' your mortgage..... worry about how you will keep you family alive two years from now....





    The Share Holders.....(which means you wheather you own 'stock' or not)
    It is almost impossible not to be tied to some international company, be it food, clothing, financial, consumer goods.....you 'own' a 'share' of all of this.
    I have my friend. The U.S. Air Force used me for the past 19 years of my career. And I wanted to serve longer than a mere 20 years. But my colon cancer made me non-deployable in 2003, although the Air Force never medically separated me. Now all of a sudden, they changed the rules this past Jan 2011. No member exempt on one or more fitness category can remain in active duty status UNLESS you're an Officer. There are 5 components of the Air Force fitness test:

    1. 1.5 mile run (timed based on weight and age) or 1 mile walk (timed with heart monitor)
    2. Push-ups (max 65 in 60 seconds based on age)
    3. Sit-Ups
    4. Waist measurement
    5. Weight

    I cannot run because of a motorcycle accident that crushed my ankle in 2010, but I could still perform my job. I cannot have my waist measured because I'm wearing a permanent colostomy from the colon cancer back in 2003. Yet since then, I've been "Returned to Duty" since 2003, probably because the Air Force didn't want to pay me Air Force Disability compensation. And if I elected to separate, that would hurt my chances for a higher VA Disability compensation. Now all of a sudden, within a year of my retirement, they tried to change the fitness standard rules so that I could be forced out administratively instead of medically. They tried to make the fitness standards so tough that it would be impossible to pass, especially if you're injured. However, I continued to pass with a 92% percent or higher, but was exempt on 2 categories; Sit-ups, and waist measurement. Well that wasn't hurting the older people liked Air Force leaders had hopes. It turned out that the younger folks were the ones failing the test, and were being kicked out before even reaching 4 or 6 years of service; the old guys did what they knew they had to do to protect their pensions. SO, what does Uncle Sam do? They changed the rules again. This time, as of Jan 2011, anybody exempt on one or more category 12 months minimal, must be force shaped out through a Physical Evaluation board. What does this mean? No medical compensation. A short and quick immediate separation from active duty in as little as 30 days. I've already seen this happen to two of my associates; one was at his 16 years ADS, and the other 18 years ADS. Both were separated with no compensation, and very little medical disability.

    So the past five years have made me realize that even the military has grown corrupted, in some cases, worse than the civilian side. But when it comes to Public Employee's working in the military, well they have no standards, are paid much higher than we are, and would take an act of Congress to get them fired.

    So needless to say, I'm a little bummed that the Air Force used me all of this time and tried to cut my career short of 20 years, but I didn't let them get my pension. Well, it's not over yet; they're still trying to do an M.E.B. on me this November. But I will be on Terminal Leave, so legally, they shouldn't be able to force me out before reaching my 20 year mark this 12 Feb 2012. The Hospital called me up four weeks ago and wanted to do another M.E.B. (Medical Evaluation Board) as soon as possible, but I have to have another Colonoscopy done before they could submit the package to Randolph AFB. Luckily, the next available appointment is not until December this year, which means by that time, they won't have much luck kicking me out before reaching 20 years of service.

    Despite all of this, I honestly wanted to remain active duty longer than 20 years. I was very good at my job, and I managed more than one position; up to 5 different programs, all by myself. Not without near fatal medical complications though. I pushed myself so hard, having worked nearly 17 hours a day, that I ended up visiting the emergency room 13 times in a three month period. So I forced myself to throttle back.

    I managed to refinance my house yesterday, down to 4% percent on a 20 year mortgage, and my house payment dropped a little more than $200.00 dollars. But I've got another hurdle to overcome. I'm hope the VA will rate my disability to 100 percent disabled, which according to their disability rating/compensation chart, I should receive due to my colostomy, not counting my ankle fusion. But these days, with the GOP trying to cut out or reduce VA compensation, I'm afraid that I may not receive as much as I hope. So this is yet another added reason why I hate the GOP. And yes, I used the word "HATE". I know that it's a sin, but the Republicans have made an enemy with me, having seen their crooked tactics on society, that I vowed never to vote Republican ever again. They don't care about the military like they always claim. They praise service men and women on Fox News. But when it comes to pay raises, they nearly always vote "NO". I've got the names and the numbers of the last pay raise we barely got. More Republicans voted "NO" for military pay raised, but I noticed that they gave themselves a 25% percent increase since 2010. MUST BE NICE!!!

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,028
    Joe
    The U.S. Military is a perfect example of just how well Socialism works. People are paid based on their rank, and not their skill, and all without each skilled employee of the military, receive the same pay-grade check, retirement, and health care


    Joe, you picked the Best example of how Socialism works, Thank-you.
    Socialism works very very well until those with money (assets/Capitalists) have lost all of their money (assets/capital) to those who feed off of the system.

    The Military ADDS NOTHING to the bottom line of the economy. It is a force that is able to only TAKE OUT and reduce the economic viability of the country. The Military PAYS NO TAXES as The Military is ONLY a Service industry of government workers (NO Government workers pay Taxes) who get their base line money from the REAL Tax Payers who Create Wealth. It (the military) creates NO Wealth and only Destroys and reduces Wealth..... EXCEPT through the actions of STEALING from others by Conquest and Force, both within their country and without against other countries.
    Your example of 'Socialism' (military) is a good one for the action of NOT being equal through hard work and adding to society, but by Taking Away of the fruits of labor and asset creation of others.
    Last edited by Brother Les; 11-02-2011 at 09:22 AM.
    Brother Les

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